President 'The Donald' Trump and Surprising Consequences - Mod warning in OP

realitykeeper

NoCrackHaving wrote: »

Also the lowest voter turnout since 1996 probably played a role.

The low turnout was a reflection of Clinton`s unpopularity. Anyway, it`s done now. Time to move on.

demfad

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Everyone knew what they were getting with Trump....brash, vulgar, common, bigot, racist, sexist etc. Clinton on the other hand promoted this quite arrogance and correctness, when she is anything but. She had a few skeletons in her cupboard.

What skeletons?

Most of the 'crooked Hillary' stuff was pushed by the billionaires that would eventually back Trump.


https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-06-22/new-super-pac-launches-for-donors-who-won-t-back-trump-but-loathe-clinton

Robert Mercer, the GOP mega-donor and co-founder of Renaissance Technologies hedge fund who once backed Texas Senator Ted Cruz, is launching a super-PAC with a novel twist to get establishment-minded donors off the sidelines. The new project will informally be dubbed the “Defeat Crooked Hillary PAC” and, despite its Trumpian name, will focus solely on attacking Clinton, not boosting Trump....Mercer’s new anti-Hillary vehicle is actually a refurbished version of Keep the Promise PAC, a pro-Cruz super-PAC that Mercer and his daughter Rebekah poured $13.5 million into during the primaries. Kellyanne Conway, the Republican pollster who is president of Keep the Promise PAC, may leave to join the Trump campaign.

The same folks with Steve Bannon were behind the book and file called Clinton Cash via the Government accountability Institute.

The Government Accountability Institute (GAI) is a conservative nonprofit investigative research organization located in Tallahassee, Florida.[3][4] GAI was founded in 2012[5] by Peter Schweizer and Stephen Bannon with funding from Robert Mercer and family.[6] Schweizer serves as the group's president.[7] The group is known for its involvement with the publication of the investigative books Clinton Cash: The Untold Story of How and Why Foreign Governments and Businesses Helped Make Bill and Hillary Rich

Again, not much she can do against propaganda.

conditioned games

People are tired at listening to the lies from the controlled mainstream media. Obama was a bad president, Hillary was a continuation of Obama and people had enough. Trump is willing to speak on real issues that affect the ordinary person that the fake news media and pro establishment politicians avoid. It's good Trump is president.

Yourself isit

The real reasons for all populist movements are the failings of modern day liberalism, globalisation and the end of socialism ( replaced by identity politics) along with the failure of the wars in the middle east and the destabilising affects of immigration.

the_pen_turner

the_pen_turner wrote: »

Trump is a lot of things but he is open about all his shortcomings.

So why wont he release his tax records?

What you see is what you get.

A sexist, racist, billionaire, misogynist?

One eyed Jack

The electorate appeared to be simply sick of the same old political circus and liberal left wing nonsense which made more of social policies for minorities than economic growth and development for the majority. Trump was basically two fingers to the whole idea - people had gotten tired and couldn't take politics seriously any more, so decided it was time their voices were heard and their needs were met.

demfad

NoCrackHaving wrote: »

Also the lowest voter turnout since 1996 probably played a role.

There are a few possible reasons for this.

• Sophisticated polling big data machines able to target people both to vote for a candidate or to not turn out for the other.
• Heavy negative press for both candidates promoting a lower turnout and more votes for independents.
• The Voting Rights Act was gutted which cut the turn out disproportionately affecting democrat voters. Apparently Obama would have been neck and neck with Trump in ket swing States in 2016 also.

the_pen_turner

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So why wont he release his tax records?



A sexist, racist, billionaire, misogynist?

Why should he . Once the irs is happy it shouldn't matter.


Sexist, billionaire , misogynist.
So is Hillary but she hides it
Not sure about the racist part

Yourself isit

demfad wrote: »

There are a few possible reasons for this.

• Sophisticated polling big data machines able to target people both to vote for a candidate or to not turn out for the other.
• Heavy negative press for both candidates promoting a lower turnout and more votes for independents.
• The Voting Rights Act was gutted which cut the turn out disproportionately affecting democrat voters. Apparently Obama would have been neck and neck with Trump in ket swing States in 2016 also.

Or more white working class voters voted for trump because he represented them rather than calling them privileged.

demfad

One eyed Jack wrote: »

The electorate appeared to be simply sick of the same old political circus and liberal left wing nonsense which made more of social policies for minorities than economic growth and development for the majority. Trump was basically two fingers to the whole idea - people had gotten tired and couldn't take politics seriously any more, so decided it was time their voices were heard and their needs were met.

I don't really buy this 'sick of the left' angle totally at least not for getting new voters out. Democrats were in for two terms and were not far off a win against Trump. Remember Trump took over the Republican party NOT the democratic party. His voters were sick of Republicans. There is not much evidence of Obama voters changing to Trump although he seems to have got new voters out in the rust belt with promises of re-opening the mines etc.

BabyCheeses

Christy42 wrote: »

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN161243

Never understood things like this. In fairness to Trump kit was already in the courts but I still find the position baffling.

Who does it hurt to let people use a different bathroom? Seems like a victory for the Bannon wing over the Kushner/ Ivanka wing.

I'm sure someone will share that picture of Trump with the rainbow flag. Didn't a Trump supporters here say that he would drop any support for Trump if he sought to remove rights of LGBT people? I await the backtracking.

the_pen_turner

It's very hard to disagree with trumps views on employment and job creation when you are sitting at home with no job because it was outscored and all the manufacturing is gone from the country.

A lot of these unemployed in USA see Mexicans etc as the reasons why the last few jobs arnt available to them

demfad

Yourself isit wrote: »

Or more white working class voters voted for trump because he represented them rather than calling them privileged.

Just a favour Id like to ask as the OP
To keep up the quality of the thread could you link to where someone called white working class voters 'privileged' or why you would say this please?

demfad

the_pen_turner wrote: »

It's very hard to disagree with trumps views on employment and job creation when you are sitting at home with no job because it was outscored and all the manufacturing is gone from the country.

A lot of these unemployed in USA see Mexicans etc as the reasons why the last few jobs arnt available to them

Yes, but that is surely not enough to get you the presidency. Where else did he get votes?

There was most definatly IMO a xenophobic, even nationalist element (even a white nationalist element) to some of Trump's vote.

MightyMandarin

demfad wrote: »

What were the conditions that made this possible? Who were the people behind him and how did they influence and shape his route to victory? What type of people voted for him and why?

1. The conditions that made it possible started back in the 1980's with Reagan and then Bill Clinton systematically destroying the economy in future decades by de-regulating everything involved in the financial sector. Fast-forward to 2016 where America is still wealthy, but vastly more divided in a socio-economic sense than ever before- a very wealthy few, and a very poor majority. Politicians on both sides were continually guilty of ignoring the people of middle-America, and for those who lived in the Rust Belt states, for example, nobody represented corporate establishment more than Hillary Clinton.



2. Trump has a lot of shady characters behind him, and in his team (as did Hillary for any of your Trump supporters who'll inevitably chime in with comparisons), and I think you'd have to be incredibly ignorant to dismiss the connections to Russia as irrelevant or unsubstantiated.

That said, it wasn't as much the people behind Trump, or even Trump himself who won him the election; it was the people in the DNC and Hillary's team who lost it. Without going into too much detail, (as I'd be here all day) the DNC rigged their own process, and Hillary planted her people in the big jobs, just so when an immensely popular, non-establishment candidate came along, she'd still win. If you're looking for the main reason why Trump won, here it is.



3. The people who voted for Trump can best be divided into 3 groups imo: The 'swing voters', the 'die-hard republicans' and the 'alt-right, white supremacist, nazi's in shiny suits' people:
- The 'swing voters' don't care for party politics or allegiances, they just want their candidate to better their lives. For most of these people, they've watched the middle class dwindle in size for decades as their incomes stalled but costs rose. They probably lost jobs, had their homes foreclosed, and were heavily reliant on Govt. benefits and subsidies (the very thing they got rid of by voting for Trump ironically).

- The 'die-hard Republicans' comprise of all sorts of groups, such as Evangelicals, fiscal conservatives etc. They didn't really like Trump but they hated Hillary, and for most of them, Mike Pence gave them assurance.

- The 'alt-right, white supremacist, nazi's in shiny suits' people, are certainly the smallest, but possibly the most vocal (at least on the internet) of the 3 groups. They weren't really key to winning, but as soon as they saw clowns like Alex Jones and Paul Joseph Watson leap in support of Trump, and people like Bannon and Miller get involved in his campaign, they hopped on the bandwagon.



Together these people showed up in smaller population to Hillary supporters, but the 'swing voters' and 'die-hard republicans' tend to populate the most important states.




TL;DR: People were ripped off by Wall St. and politicians for decades and were (rightfully) fed up with the establishment. With some help from Putin, Jim Comey, and a lot of help from the DNC's stupidity, and a stale, bland, washed-up opposing candidate, you had the perfect environment for Trump to thrive.

One eyed Jack

demfad wrote: »

Yes, but that is surely not enough to get you the presidency. Where else did he get votes?

There was most definatly IMO a xenophobic, even nationalist element (even a white nationalist element) to some of Trump's vote.

Being black was enough to guarantee a virtual unknown the presidency in 2008, it was cool and trendy to vote for Obama, and to be seen to vote for Obama.

Of course there was a xenophobic, nationalistic and even patriotic element to most of Trumps vote I would say, but that's the whole point of a democracy surely? People vote for the candidate who they believe best represents their interests, and Trumps message was simple - "Make America Great Again!". We could argue all day over what makes America great, but the majority of people who voted obviously considered that America needed a new direction, away from left leaning liberalism... as far away from it as possible!

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Special Circumstances

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

You're being very generous there to be fair.
"Vote for me because I'm worth it you deplorable cretins" wouldn't be too much of a stretch if you weren't feeling so generous!

Yourself isit

demfad wrote: »

Just a favour Id like to ask as the OP
To keep up the quality of the thread could you link to where someone called white working class voters 'privileged' or why you would say this please?

You don't get to mod your own threads.

I generally don't link to well known phrases - the ideology of "white privilege" or "ending white supremacism" is pretty common in American universities. In fact most of the anti trump demonstrators carry signs of that nature.

demfad

MightyMandarin wrote: »

1. The conditions that made it possible started back in the 1980's with Reagan and then Bill Clinton systematically destroying the economy in future decades by de-regulating everything involved in the financial sector. Fast-forward to 2016 where America is still wealthy, but vastly more divided in a socio-economic sense than ever before- a very wealthy few, and a very poor majority. Politicians on both sides were continually guilty of ignoring the people of middle-America, and for those who lived in the Rust Belt states, for example, nobody represented corporate establishment more than Hillary Clinton.

I don't agree with much of that but it certainly was the spin that Trump and co used to good effect. Trump as a corporate billionaire was very much more of the establishment than Clinton if not a political insider.

2. Trump has a lot of shady characters behind him, and in his team (as did Hillary for any of your Trump supporters who'll inevitably chime in with comparisons), and I think you'd have to be incredibly ignorant to dismiss the connections to Russia as irrelevant or unsubstantiated.

That said, it wasn't as much the people behind Trump, or even Trump himself who won him the election; it was the people in the DNC and Hillary's team who lost it. Without going into too much detail, (as I'd be here all day) the DNC rigged their own process, and Hillary planted her people in the big jobs, just so when an immensely popular, non-establishment candidate came along, she'd still win. If you're looking for the main reason why Trump won, here it is.

I think a proper analysis of how much affect outside influence really had would be needed to make the conclusions you do. Even in the simplest sense any exposure of Trumps shady dealings or ongoing FBI investigations into Trump/Russia would have sunk him. Therefore it could strongly be argued that tying the media up sifting through endless Clinton emails was a decisive ploy by Wikileaks/Russia.

3. The people who voted for Trump can best be divided into 3 groups imo: The 'swing voters', the 'die-hard republicans' and the 'alt-right, white supremacist, nazi's in shiny suits' people:
- The 'swing voters' don't care for party politics or allegiances, they just want their candidate to better their lives. For most of these people, they've watched the middle class dwindle in size for decades as their incomes stalled but costs rose. They probably lost jobs, had their homes foreclosed, and were heavily reliant on Govt. benefits and subsidies (the very thing they got rid of by voting for Trump ironically).

- The 'die-hard Republicans' comprise of all sorts of groups, such as Evangelicals, fiscal conservatives etc. They didn't really like Trump but they hated Hillary, and for most of them, Mike Pence gave them assurance.

- The 'alt-right, white supremacist, nazi's in shiny suits' people, are certainly the smallest, but possibly the most vocal (at least on the internet) of the 3 groups. They weren't really key to winning, but as soon as they saw clowns like Alex Jones and Paul Joseph Watson leap in support of Trump, and people like Bannon and Miller get involved in his campaign, they hopped on the bandwagon.

The evangelical/Christian right are a huge factor and have grown since the 80's. They are represented by the umbrella group the Council for National Policy. Trump promised this group everything (anti abortion. LGBT, immigration, feminsim) and they see him as a vessel to their ends or a 'blunt instrument' as Bannon put it.

The alt-right are very close to that group as are the KKK etc. There is another group you could label the 'red pill' group who are young men literally living in their Moms basement. They hang out on 4chan, they know whomever they vote for will make no difference and Trump gave them an opportunity to give 2 fingers to the world.

With some help from Putin, Jim Comey

That wasnt Jim Comeys fault in fairness. A potential conspiracy involving Giuliani, Erik Prince and others is under investigation by the DOJ.

Mr.Micro

demfad wrote: »

What skeletons?




.

Bill for one

She is no loss.

Yourself isit

demfad wrote: »

Yes, but that is surely not enough to get you the presidency. Where else did he get votes?

There was most definatly IMO a xenophobic, even nationalist element (even a white nationalist element) to some of Trump's vote.

That's the other thing. Calling people xenophobic or white nationalist or deplorable doesn't gain votes either.

In fact the presidency waa won in the rust belts. Hilary won where she was expected to win but lost those states to republicans for the first time ever or in along time.

One eyed Jack

Special Circumstances wrote: »

You're being very generous there to be fair.
"Vote for me because I'm worth it you deplorable cretins" wouldn't be too much of a stretch if you weren't feeling so generous!

In fairness I think that was more the message of Hillary's celebrity supporters than Hillary herself. I have to agree with PB that Hillary's downfall was absolutely one of her own making, that her campaign was lacklustre and uninspiring, and her attempts to appeal to young women with the likes of Lena Dunham (*facepalm*) did her campaign no favours whatsoever.

I would have thought Hillary would have brought a lot more to the table than what she did (she brought nothing), and months beforehand I would have actually liked to see her elected, but she ran such a terrible campaign, always on the defensive against Trump, that in the end she only had herself to blame really.

Christy42

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

You are right that this is a factor but I have never understood it. If Republicans had simply let the transgender bathroom thing go then it would have been implemented and we would all have moved on by now so the right is just as invested in fighting transgender bathrooms as Trump's recent actions show.

Yourself isit

Ignoring the nonsense about the Russian non-hacking. The KKK and the religious groups always vote republican. They would certainly vote against Obama. The alt right are a few people on twitter.

To ask why Clinton got fewer votes from voters than Obama did is the question. Why did some blacks stay at home, why did the rust belt flip.

Shouting deplorable won't help.

Yourself isit

Christy42 wrote: »

You are right that this is a factor but I have never understood it. If Republicans had simply let the transgender bathroom thing go then it would have been implemented and we would all have moved on by now so the right is just as invested in fighting transgender bathrooms as Trump's recent actions show.

I'd like to see how deep the support for transgender bathrooms is. In any case you are asking republicans to roll over.

Zubeneschamali

Deleted User wrote: »

So why wont he release his tax records?

A sexist, racist, billionaire, misogynist?

I think he won't release his tax records because they show he is not a billionaire. Add up his assets and his debts, and his net value is below zero. And much of that debt is held in Russia.

Which is why his first actions as President are to keep Melania in Trump Tower, charging the taxpayer a million a week to house her security detail, and spend every weekend at his Florida club, siphoning off more taxpayers cash into his business.

By the time he leaves office, he really will be a billionaire.

Special Circumstances

One eyed Jack wrote: »

In fairness I think that was more the message of Hillary's celebrity supporters than Hillary herself. I have to agree with PB that Hillary's downfall was absolutely one of her own making, that her campaign was lacklustre and uninspiring, and her attempts to appeal to young women with the likes of Lena Dunham (*facepalm*) did her campaign no favours whatsoever.

I definitely got that vibe from Hillary herself, but yeah millionaire celebrities ramming things down people's throats didn't help either.

I was listening to Matt Cooper the evening before the vote. The wall to wall sneering of genuinely privileged, comfortable, educated people at those less fortunate (basket of deplorables) was making ME angry, never mind those grinding out an existence in the USA.

Christy42

Yourself isit wrote: »

I'd like to see how deep the support for transgender bathrooms is. In any case you are asking republicans to roll over.

The argument was that liberals care too much about them. Surely it is hardly Republicans rolling over if they just don't care? I mean could the Republicans care about this more than they care about the working class?

demfad

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

She won the popular vote by 3 million votes in fairness (one of the largest of all time) and as has been pointed out Obama would have struggled in the swing States with the Voters Rights Laws changed as they were.

She had to face other obstacles that Obama didn't:

• A propaganda campaign against her including SuperPACS, films, books from Steve Bannon, The Mercers and others dating back to 2009.
• The Citizens United case meant that Billionaire donors were now back in the game. The full effect of this was used against Clinton with superPACS like 'stop crooked Hillary' funding even more baseless propaganda campaigns.
• An investigative media diminished since the crash and tied up with teh hacked/leaked emails meant they spent the vast amount of time on her emails instead of on his shady history and Russian connections.
• Cambridge Analaytica, a new age big data 'election manipulation' polling machine capable of analaysing and predicting voter bahavious and dropping 'dark post' attack ads to individual users SM platforms. CA boasted  a network of 23,000 pages and 1.3 million hyperlinks. CA seems to have subcontracted a troll army who have dominated US SM since 2014 with anti-Hillary pro Trump messages.
• A last minute conspiracy (under investigation) to reopen an old email investigation when Trump was dead and buried.

Inspite of all these extra disadvantages the race came down to a 70,000 votes in 3 swing states. Under the circumstances she didn't do badly at all.