President 'The Donald' Trump and Surprising Consequences - Mod warning in OP

BabyCheeses

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Approval ratings? Out of the people who could be bothered to vote more voted for Clinton?

Professor Moriarty

BabyCheeses wrote: »

Approval ratings? Out of the people who could be bothered to vote more voted for Clinton?

63 milion voted Trump. 188 million didn't.

demfad

Manic Moran wrote: »

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/the-democratic-party-deserves-to-die_us_58236ad5e4b0aac62488cde5

"There was an incredibly revealing moment at the DNC. In an effort to rev up the crowd one of the speakers called out: “Who in this room works with their hands?” Silence"

First of all that is an opinion piece right after the election from a very disgruntled Democrat and I would take the exageration with a pinch of salt. Secondly democrats are pro workers Union and vice versa. If a Union activist makes it into politics it will likely be as a democrat not as Republican. The US is not the manufacturing economy it was before the rise of global finance. So you will have less people in these industries and naturally, less coming through from those industries.
But some on the ground democratic activists will have come from thsi Union blue collar background. Not as many as yesteryear but that reflects the countrya s much as the democratic party.

Leroy42

Sam Russell wrote: »

But he would have been a heart beat from the presidency, with a 70 year old occupant, whose health was called into question. Then there's the 2nd amendment crowd ....

Oh, I agree, I was replying to the question of why HC never offered it to him.

I'm just saying that maybe he felt that he had such support he would be better off outside. He just couldn't bring himself to side with HC

demfad

Mr.Micro wrote: »

She did not win. A chimp would probably have beaten Trump but not her. IMO, my hypothetical chimp vs Trump wound have taken most of the votes Trump got. She was a worse candidate than Trump and both were truly awful.

No offense but I wont be responding to you again.

demfad

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Could you address the below issues please that were already put to you but you have conveniently ignored?

Other presidents did not face:

• A propaganda campaign against her including SuperPACS, films, books from Steve Bannon, The Mercers and others dating back to 2009.
• The Citizens United case meant that Billionaire donors were now back in the game. The full effect of this was used against Clinton with superPACS like 'stop crooked Hillary' funding even more baseless propaganda campaigns.
• An investigative media diminished since the crash and tied up with the hacked/leaked emails meant they spent the vast amount of time on her emails instead of on his shady history and Russian connections.
• Cambridge Analaytica, a new age big data 'election manipulation' polling machine capable of analaysing and predicting voter bahavious and dropping 'dark post' attack ads to individual users SM platforms. CA boasted  a network of 23,000 pages and 1.3 million hyperlinks. CA seems to have subcontracted a troll army who have dominated US SM since 2014 with anti-Hillary pro Trump messages.
• A last minute conspiracy (under investigation) to reopen an old email investigation when Trump was dead and buried.

Inspite of all these extra disadvantages the race came down to a 70,000 votes in 3 swing states. Under the circumstances she didn't do badly at all.


Edit: By blue collar workers, you really mean blue collar white male workers right?

Overheal

Amerika wrote: »

Talk about bad timing in reaction to Trump’s comments about Sweden.

Monday
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cDNaAYfacs

Tuesday
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QMe0Wou5HI

Hmmm.... Riots erupt in Sweden’s capital just days after Trump comments. Can you spell V-I-N-D-I-C-A-T-I-O-N?

Can you spell "manufactured?" You think if the POTUS hadn't made Sweden international news over nothing, that people would have still pulled that riot?

Yourself isit

Leroy42 wrote: »

It could have been that Sanders wouldn't accept the position. He seems a man of principles and maybe he felt that despite HC move towards the left he couldn't work in her administration and was better off staying the maverick pissing into the tent.

Presumably though he wanted, at some stage, to win the presidency so it doesn't make sense that he wasn't interested in the VP. It wasn't offered.

Yourself isit

Overheal wrote: »

Can you spell "manufactured?" You think if the POTUS hadn't made Sweden international news over nothing, that people would have still pulled that riot?

The Muslims involved in the riots were trying to vindicate Trump?

In fact riots happen in sweden all the time.

demfad

Overheal wrote: »

Can you spell "manufactured?" You think if the POTUS hadn't made Sweden international news over nothing, that people would have still pulled that riot?

Absolutely. And these false flags will become more frequent.
Putin manufactured this made up rape of a teenager just before local German elections that hurt Merkels party.
These tactics have always been around but the overall concept of post-truth was created in Russia probably by this man, Vladislav Surkov.
He takes manufacturing facts to a new level and created Putin's Russia, calling himself a political technologist. He manufactured opposition parties, created human rights groups, skin head groups. He invented bad stories about Putin for hapless media to chase after, good stories for them to ponder. If a real bad story emerged he would throw ten more with it so no-one knew which was true. Post-truth was born.
Surkov realised that other societies could be influenced just as Russia and indeed this may be a more effective method to continue the cold war on the west and end US hegemony.
The US was the 13th or 14th country whose elections Russia has influenced.
In particular the ultra Russian philosophy of Dugin was a good fit for mainly white post recession countries. In the US they saw a crack in capitalism between fundamentalist Christians and secularists. All their post-truth activity in the US in the past few years has been to open that crack until it was a massive chasm. The installation of Trump as president although they were not expecting to win (just to cause chaos) must be the greatest achievement in Russian/US espionage.

After the next serious leak about Trump/Russia expect a false flag attack on US soil and some grab at more power/special powers.

Christy42

demfad wrote: »

Absolutely. And these false flags will become more frequent.
Putin manufactured this made up rape of a teenager just before local German elections that hurt Merkels party.
These tactics have always been around but the overall concept of post-truth was created in Russia probably by this man, Vladislav Surkov.
He takes manufacturing facts to a new level and created Putin's Russia, calling himself a political technologist. He manufactured opposition parties, created human rights groups, skin head groups. He invented bad stories about Putin for hapless media to chase after, good stories for them to ponder. If a real bad story emerged he would throw ten more with it so no-one knew which was true. Post-truth was born.
Surkov realised that other societies could be influenced just as Russia and indeed this may be a more effective method to continue the cold war on the west and end US hegemony.
The US was the 13th or 14th country whose elections Russia has influenced.
In particular the ultra Russian philosophy of Dugin was a good fit for mainly white post recession countries. In the US they saw a crack in capitalism between fundamentalist Christians and secularists. All their post-truth activity in the US in the past few years has been to open that crack until it was a massive chasm. The installation of Trump as president although they were not expecting to win (just to cause chaos) must be the greatest achievement in Russian/US espionage.

After the next serious leak about Trump/Russia expect a false flag attack on US soil and some grab at more power/special powers.

I disagree that the riots are a plant or made by Trump / Putin. I would at least require serious evidence for it.

Having said that they in no way vindicate Trump. He referenced a specific day and nothing happened then or he referenced a documentary (but didn't disclose that he was doing that to the crowd so insanely confusing) that has been debunked as having loads of inaccuracies (somehow still does not hit Trump's definition of Fake news). Either way Trump was lying/ an idiot. He did not refer to a specific incident, he did not predict the riots. He was lying/ an idiot and his supporters simply keep reinterpreting his remarks to suit themselves or whatever they can argue after the fact.

Yourself isit

demfad wrote: »

Absolutely. And these false flags will become more frequent.
Putin manufactured this made up rape of a teenager just before local German elections that hurt Merkels party.
These tactics have always been around but the overall concept of post-truth was created in Russia probably by this man, Vladislav Surkov.

I'm afraid your link proves nothing about Russian involvement in staging the rape. There's no hint of anyallegation in the guardian piece that the rape was made up by Putin. just by the girl involved.

He takes manufacturing facts to a new level and created Putin's Russia, calling himself a political technologist. He manufactured opposition parties, created human rights groups, skin head groups. He invented bad stories about Putin for hapless media to chase after, good stories for them to ponder. If a real bad story emerged he would throw ten more with it so no-one knew which was true. Post-truth was born.

You've taken a report that substantiates none of your claims and ran away with some crazed theorising.

Surkov realised that other societies could be influenced just as Russia and indeed this may be a more effective method to continue the cold war on the west and end US hegemony.

The Russians are not interested in a Cold War, as opposed to the era when they actually had a revolutionary ideology to spread. The US is, as evidenced by war criminal John McCain's incandescent rage at not being able to destroy Syria.

As for ending US hegemony why wouldn't any sane rational actor who is not American want that?

Look at the bloodshed of the last decade or so caused by that hegemony.

But Russia is a country of limited power and little influence these days.

The US was the 13th or 14th country whose elections Russia has influenced.
In particular the ultra Russian philosophy of Dugin was a good fit for mainly white post recession countries. In the US they saw a crack in capitalism between fundamentalist Christians and secularists. All their post-truth activity in the US in the past few years has been to open that crack until it was a massive chasm. The installation of Trump as president although they were not expecting to win (just to cause chaos) must be the greatest achievement in Russian/US espionage.

As usual you have links to minor claims (no matter how invalid) and then run away with yourself. 13-14 countries? You also attribute home grown differences in countries to evil Russian interference. The American right has been religious for decades. It started when the Soviet union (which did interfere in other countries elections) existed. They didnt fund it. Generally the Soviet Union funded communists or left wing parties.

After the next serious leak about Trump/Russia expect a false flag attack on US soil and some grab at more power/special powers.

A false flag Is normally carried out by the home teams security services. I too expect one.

demfad

Christy42 wrote: »

I disagree that the riots are a plant or made by Trump / Putin. I would at least require serious evidence for it.

Having said that they in no way vindicate Trump. He referenced a specific day and nothing happened then or he referenced a documentary (but didn't disclose that he was doing that to the crowd so insanely confusing) that has been debunked as having loads of inaccuracies (somehow still does not hit Trump's definition of Fake news). Either way Trump was lying/ an idiot. He did not refer to a specific incident, he did not predict the riots. He was lying/ an idiot and his supporters simply keep reinterpreting his remarks to suit themselves or whatever they can argue after the fact.

I would be suspicious of that particular riot given the timing.
However, the use of cyber warfare, a massive network of fake news sites, false flag attacks, Western right wing funding and media training, bot and troll armies have all being used by Russia against the US since atleast 2013.

In the US the huge story now is Trumps links to Russia. It is clear the US and wider intelligence agencies believe the Kremlin have ears in the Oval office.
Knowing how thsi came about is important for stopping it coming about in other countries, like Ireland.

(Edit)

IMO:

With a concerted effort of Russian hacking and dumping/wikileaks
The use of Cambridge Analytica's massive propaganda web networks to propagate disparaging material or fake news
to personalise that news and create attack ads for individual web users
Creating a few serious 'fake stories' to discredit a particular group or policy.
To bring in a 100 of the Petrograd troll army to easily dominate the narrative on Irish SM and amplify these themes
Using Breitbart like news sites to help spread and validate the news.
To drown out any good stories about opponents with information noise and disinformation.

If you applied this formula to Ireland, you could get either of the main 2 parties over the line for an overall majority. You could do the same for Sinn Fein if you started 2 years out.

This is what Bannon/Putin has done in to a small degree in Brexit and a very large degree in the US (trolls on scene for 3 years). This is what is being rolled out in France and Germany.
Europe needs to understand how Trump won. It had nothing to do with Hillary neglecting white male blue collar voters. Without Trumps 'help' he loses that election in the biggest loss ever recorded.

demfad

More news on the Cohen, Sater, Artemenko meeting about a Ukrainian peace plan.

Cohen had given 4 different versions of the events to different media outlets in the US. Artemenko claims that the original version Flynn gave is correct. They agreed a Ukraine peace plan involving a cease fire and leasing East Ukraine to Russia. First the current Ukraine would be deposed with Kompromat. This plan was delivered by Cohen to Flynn's desk.
Artemenko is now being investigated for treason in Ukraine. Cohen calls it 'fake news' now...Trump denies all knowledge....
Nothing unusual in any of this....

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/02/23/politics/trump-lawyer-ukraine-peace-deal/index.html

Amost forgot: Kilimnik an important associate of Trump ex campaign manager Paul Manafort in Ukraine has admitted he and Manaforf were in regular contact during the Trump campaign. Thats important because Kilimnik spent many years in Russian millitary Intelligence.
http://www.rferl.org/a/paul-manafort-konstantin-kilimnik-trump-campaign-ukraine/28326123.html

Another day, another couple more dodgy Trump ties to the Kremlin. Nothing unusual here!

26000 Elephants

Yourself isit wrote: »

I'm afraid your link proves nothing about Russian involvement in staging the rape. There's no hint of anyallegation in the guardian piece that the rape was made up by Putin. just by the girl involved.

Probably not 'made up' by them, but certainly pumped up by them, as described in the article:

The mood was exacerbated by a report on Russian state TV, in which the girl’s relatives claimed her allegations were not being investigated.

The Russian foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov, also weighed in to criticise the Berlin authorities. “The news that she disappeared was kept secret for a very long time,” he told a press conference, blaming “political correctness”.

This was bo**ox of course, but designed to height an already tense mood.

Mr.Micro

demfad wrote: »

No offense but I wont be responding to you again.

No offense. Like I care. You cannot argue with the fact she lost, people need to get over it.

weisses

Mr.Micro wrote: »

No offense. Like I care. You cannot argue with the fact she lost, people need to get over it.

Her losing is real

Trump having to deal with a majority of Americans who did not vote for him is just as real

Zubeneschamali

Mr.Micro wrote: »

people need to get over it.

I'd say people will be over it nicely in January 2020.

Water John

You have Bannon telling the German ambassador that he doesn't really recognise the EU. Would prefer to deal with individual countries. WTF.
He gets to tell us how to run our business and democracy.
The absolute arrogance of it. A long ways from JFK's speech in Berlin.

demfad

FBI refused White House request to knock down recent Trump-Russia stories

The FBI rejected a recent White House request to publicly knock down media reports about communications between Donald Trump's associates and Russians known to US intelligence during the 2016 presidential campaign, multiple US officials briefed on the matter tell CNN.

The Whitehouse isn't supposed to directly communicate with the FBI during an ongoing investigation. Such a request from the is a violation of procedures that limit communications with the FBI on pending investigations.
Nixon, for example, tried to kill the FBI Watergate investigation by leaning on the CIA to tell the FBI it was a national security matter.

Late Thursday night, White House press secretary Sean Spicer objected to CNN's characterization of the White House request to the FBI.
"We didn't try to knock the story down. We asked them to tell the truth," Spicer said. The FBI declined to comment for this story....
Comey rejected the request for the FBI to comment on the stories, according to sources, because the alleged communications between Trump associates and Russians known to US intelligence are the subject of an ongoing investigation.

This also seems to be at odds with Priebus's comments last Sunday.

The White House did issue its own denial, with Priebus calling The New York Times story "complete garbage. I can assure you and I have been approved to say this -- that the top levels of the intelligence community have assured me that that story is not only inaccurate, but it's grossly overstated and it was wrong. And there's nothing to it," Preibus said on "Fox News Sunday" last weekend.

The Whitehouse trying to interfere with FBI investigations is as serious as it gets, but again we can expect silence and inaction from Republican leaders Ryan and McConnell.

It seems likely the Whitehouse is getting uncomfortable about the places where these investigations and the congressional inquiries are leading. It is reported that "new" material was shared by FBI Director Comey at the last Senate Intel committee meeting. People who attended that meeting have been unusually tight lipped apparently although:

Rep. Eric Swalwell of California, a Democratic member of the House Intelligence Committee, said the goal of his panel's inquiry is to follow "leads wherever they go even if they may be uncomfortable to Republicans."
"The American public will want to know if the President had personal or financial ties to the Russian government," Swalwell said.

Leroy42

Water John wrote: »

You have Bannon telling the German ambassador that he doesn't really recognise the EU. Would prefer to deal with individual countries. WTF.
He gets to tell us how to run our business and democracy.
The absolute arrogance of it. A long ways from JFK's speech in Berlin.

EU needs to decide what it wants to be. It has played a being a group for long enough and now US is calling them out on it. Do they stand firm on relent?

US obviously prefer dealing with individual countries, it immediately gives them the upper hand in any discussions. That is not the case if dealing with a United EU.

Clearly US is on a path away from a united world and more towards america 1st. So EU need to take account of that. The US already have the UK on their side, and that is a big plus for them. They need to start to incite further discord to pull it apart some more.

Water John

So Le Pen and Wilders could get help from both the Americans and the Russians???

demfad

Water John wrote: »

So Le Pen and Wilders could get help from both the Americans and the Russians???

To be precise. LePen, Wilders, The AFP ARE getting help from both Americans and Russians.


On Russian side you have Cyber warfare, Disinformation, Fake news, False flag attacks, Hacking, wikileaks, troll army etc

On the American side you have: Polling machine Cambridge Analytica used in US election, Brexit now used in Whitehouse. This is being/will be used in European elections. IT uses a massive website network to distribute fake news (see Russia above). It psychoanalyses voters for dark attack ads over SM and Internet. Canvassers would have exact on psychoanalysed message info for house canvassing voters on smart phones. Breitbart would support this and it needs to subcontract for SM bots/Trolls (see Russia above).
Bannon is Breitbart and he is on board of CA.

Zubeneschamali

Water John wrote: »

You have Bannon telling the German ambassador that he doesn't really recognise the EU. Would prefer to deal with individual countries. WTF. He gets to tell us how to run our business and democracy.

From wikipedia: In 2009 he was appointed to serve as Germany's Permanent Representative to the United Nations. Wittig has served twice as the President of the United Nations Security Council, once in July 2011 and again in September 2012. Between 2011 and 2012, he headed the Al-Qaida Sanctions Committee.

Since joining the German foreign service in 1982, Wittig has served as German Ambassador to Lebanon and to Cyprus.

Wittig is a professional diplomat, I'm sure he has dealt politely with knob-ends like Bannon before.

demfad

White House effort to justify travel ban causes growing concern for some intelligence officials

Remember WMD?

To bypass courts, WH needs the Conclusion=7 countries pose a substantial threat to National Security

No go find 'evidence' that makes our conclusion true!

President Donald Trump has assigned the Department of Homeland Security, working with the Justice Department, to help build the legal case for its temporary travel ban on individuals from seven countries, a senior White House official tells CNN.

Other Trump administration sources tell CNN that this is an assignment that has caused concern among some administration intelligence officials, who see the White House charge as the politicization of intelligence -- the notion of a conclusion in search of evidence to support it after being blocked by the courts. Still others in the intelligence community disagree with the conclusion and are finding their work disparaged by their own department.
"DHS and DOJ are working on an intelligence report that will demonstrate that the security threat for these seven countries is substantial and that these seven countries have all been exporters of terrorism into the United States," the senior White House official told CNN. "The situation has gotten more dangerous in recent years, and more broadly, the refugee program has been a major incubator for terrorism."

Water John

Wittig, wouldn't need to be polite, on this occasion.

recedite

Water John wrote: »

You have Bannon telling the German ambassador that he doesn't really recognise the EU. Would prefer to deal with individual countries. WTF.
He gets to tell us how to run our business and democracy.

What do you mean "our"? Are you a German? The very fact that there is a German ambassador over there instead of an EU ambassador tells you all you need to know about the EU and its ability to represent "us" abroad.
How many Irish people have even heard of Mogherini, let alone consider her as their representative abroad?

Interesting fact about her job, she only barely beat a Polish guy called Sikorski in the election for that top EU position. Sikorsky was a guy favoured by the previous Whitehouse administration. He appears to have all the attributes of somebody who has been groomed by US or British intelligence.

From a humble start "apparently" as a penniless student immigrant to London, he was propelled into the social circles of similarly upward destined rich kids Boris Johnston and David Cameron, then he "fell into" a spell in Afghanistan doing unspecified "journalism" work among jihadists (at the time they were the good guys, because they were only killing Russians) then a spell working for a Washington "think-tank" before a return to his native Poland. He was Minister of Defense in Poland for a while, approving US missile defense stations and bases.
There is an interesting boards.ie post about him here from 2010 which includes a great photo of "the lads" together.

Fortunately this guy has fallen from favour somewhat in the last few years, corresponding with the general rise in European "populism" and "anti-globalisation".

Havockk

recedite wrote: »

What do you mean "our"? Are you a German? The very fact that there is a German ambassador over there instead of an EU ambassador tells you all you need to know about the EU and its ability to represent "us" abroad.
How many Irish people have even heard of Mogherini, let alone consider her as their representative abroad?

Interesting fact about her job, she only barely beat a Polish guy called Sikorski in the election for that top EU position. Sikorsky was a guy favoured by the previous Whitehouse administration. He appears to have all the attributes of somebody who has been groomed by US or British intelligence.

From a humble start "apparently" as a penniless student immigrant to London, he was propelled into the social circles of similarly upward destined rich kids Boris Johnston and David Cameron, then he "fell into" a spell in Afghanistan doing unspecified "journalism" work among jihadists (at the time they were the good guys, because they were only killing Russians) then a spell working for a Washington "think-tank" before a return to his native Poland. He was Minister of Defense in Poland for a while, approving US missile defense stations and bases.
There is an interesting boards.ie post about him here from 2010 which includes a great photo of "the lads" together.

Fortunately this guy has fallen from favour somewhat in the last few years, corresponding with the general rise in European "populism" and "anti-globalisation".

I'm having a difficult time following your train of thought here. You are criticising Mogherini because the guy she beat was part of the 'elite'?

That's just bizarre.

Harika

recedite wrote: »

What do you mean "our"? Are you a German? The very fact that there is a German ambassador over there instead of an EU ambassador tells you all you need to know about the EU and its ability to represent "us" abroad.

There is a famous quote from Henry Kissinger ""Europe"? Give me a name and a phone number!" or “Who do I call if I want to call Europe?” So that Europe is not speaking with one voice is a really old problem.
With Trump now saying he is okay with Europe as long as they are happy, I feel the relationship can go ahead. lol
Without the messing, Europe with Trump and Brexit disasters at hand, has the golden opportunity to taking this project serious again and improve the deficits.

jobbridge4life

Harika wrote: »

There is a famous quote from Henry Kissinger ""Europe"? Give me a name and a phone number!" or “Who do I call if I want to call Europe?” So that Europe is not speaking with one voice is a really old problem.
With Trump now saying he is okay with Europe as long as they are happy, I feel the relationship can go ahead. lol
Without the messing, Europe with Trump and Brexit disasters at hand, has the golden opportunity to taking this project serious again and improve the deficits.

It must if it is to survive.