President 'The Donald' Trump and Surprising Consequences - Mod warning in OP

Leroy42

recedite wrote: »

What do you mean "our"? Are you a German? The very fact that there is a German ambassador over there instead of an EU ambassador tells you all you need to know about the EU and its ability to represent "us" abroad.

By that 'logic' Trump is only a New Yorker and can't speak for the rest of the US.

Yes, the person may be borne and raised in Germany but the idea behind Europe is that as group we speak with one voice. Like having a manager in a department or a union rep. You don't expect managment to meet with every individual bus driver do you.

But I guess you're right, lets send Charlie Flanagan over there to put manners on Bannon. I'm sure they will listen and take on board what us 4m have to say!

demfad

Water John wrote: »

Wittig, wouldn't need to be polite, on this occasion.

Bannon's vision is not just for the US but for the world. He wants non-existant centralised government, with nation states with ultra right conservative values.
The European Union is a great barrier to this. To bring it down you need nation States to leave. To weaken it you need these States to start acting independently.
He must deconstruct the US from within, however:

From the Conservative conference yesterday he described his 3 pillars:

national security and sovereignty; economic nationalism; and “deconstruction of the administrative state”.

The Federal Government seems to be non functional on many levels:
Only a small minority of WH nominations have been made. The State department which traditionally has press briefings every day has gone completely silent.
Some department secretaries seem to be philosophically against the existence their own departments and have been called deconstructors. Although it has been pointed out here that they havent even got the people in place to deconstruct.
Bannon lauds authoritarian leaders everywhere: India, Indonesia anywhere where a patriarcal strongman leader is in place.
His last goal is for a big war against Islam. Not terrorist groups but the Muslim population/religion itself. He is pushing tensions between India and Pakistan who are both nuclear powers. He is well aware that Dugin is pushing Serbia to reassert themselves over Muslim neighbours in the Balkans.
He is a dispicable man, but he needs to be taken seriously. Many of the actions of the Trump/Bannon presidency are playing directly from the authoritarian rule book. These are dangerous times for the world.

Edit: The money and power behind Trump is Robert and Rebekah Mercer. They have worked with Bannon for 19 years.
Robert Trump is CEO at Renaissance technologies one of the most successful hedge funds in the world. At least one emplyee has mitineed against his boss calling him a white natonalist to his face over Trumps policies. Mercer is an ultra right conservative, climate denier, anti gay, feminist etc etc with strong connections to the far right conservative group the Heritage foundation and religious Statist group Council for National Policy.

Leroy42

I said it at the time, but I actually think Britain could not have picked a worse time to leave the EU.

It is clear that the new Trump Administration is no friend of EU, a change from all previous admins (at least outwardly) and EU needs to either get closer together or fall apart.

From Irelands POV, seeing how America is treating Mexico, trying to operate on our own against them will only lead to one outcome, win for the US.

US is clearly setting out its vision that it is US first, second and last, and everyone else can sing. They hope to achieve that by breaking down the groups that exist, as by grouping it not only creates a more equal adversary it also increases the ability of the individual parts of the group to put it up to the States.


The 'union' that we have known for the last 70 years is threatening to be thorn apart and EU, and the citizens within each country, must now decide how they are to deal with this new dynamic.

If posters like Recedite are indicative of the type of thinking from most Europeans that the EU, and potentially Ireland, is doomed

demfad

Leroy42 wrote: »

I said it at the time, but I actually think Britain could not have picked a worse time to leave the EU.

It is clear that the new Trump Administration is no friend of EU, a change from all previous admins (at least outwardly) and EU needs to either get closer together or fall apart.

From Irelands POV, seeing how America is treating Mexico, trying to operate on our own against them will only lead to one outcome, win for the US.

US is clearly setting out its vision that it is US first, second and last, and everyone else can sing. They hope to achieve that by breaking down the groups that exist, as by grouping it not only creates a more equal adversary it also increases the ability of the individual parts of the group to put it up to the States.


The 'union' that we have known for the last 70 years is threatening to be thorn apart and EU, and the citizens within each country, must now decide how they are to deal with this new dynamic.

If posters like Recedite are indicative of the type of thinking from most Europeans that the EU, and potentially Ireland, is doomed

There are posters with the mindset:

Anti EU, Anti liberal, Anti Immigrant, Pro Putin, Pro Trump, Pro Russia.

These posters are all over the western world but are a disproportionatly loud tiny minority. On fora if they cant win a conversation the goal is to tie posters and the conversation up in side argument, to deflect and then accuse others of deflection.

You can observe it on Irish fora also. My policy is to identify those users and just not engage with them. It forces them to make substantive points or dissapear.

demfad

demfad wrote: »

FBI refused White House request to knock down recent Trump-Russia stories

The Whitehouse isn't supposed to directly communicate with the FBI during an ongoing investigation. Such a request from the is a violation of procedures that limit communications with the FBI on pending investigations.
Nixon, for example, tried to kill the FBI Watergate investigation by leaning on the CIA to tell the FBI it was a national security matter.

The Whitehouse trying to interfere with FBI investigations is as serious as it gets.....

It seems likely the Whitehouse is getting uncomfortable about the places where these investigations and the congressional inquiries are leading. It is reported that "new" material was shared by FBI Director Comey at the last Senate Intel committee meeting.

John Dean on twitter this morning. John Dean's expertise derives from the fact that he was Richard Nixon's Lawyer.

Professor Moriarty

Trump's mask is slipping again:

He said reporters should not be allowed to use anonymous sources, and "we're going to do something about it."

PopePalpatine

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Trump's mask is slipping again:

He said reporters should not be allowed to use anonymous sources, and "we're going to do something about it."

Is this another thing he's picked up from Putin?

Professor Moriarty

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Is this another thing he's picked up from Putin?

The way things are going, Russia is looking like the more liberal country.

jobbridge4life

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

The way things are going, Russia is looking like the more liberal country.

I'm assuming you are joking but I feel compelled to point out that Russia is a kleptocratic increasingly theocratic dictatorship that has been raped and pillaged by it's own ruling class who keep their populace in such a state of paranoia and ignorance that they can't see what is happening.

Sorry for being so pedantic but I actually think it is very important that everyone know what Russia under Putin has become, that we all know exactly what we are dealing with.

Christy42

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Trump's mask is slipping again:

He said reporters should not be allowed to use anonymous sources, and "we're going to do something about it."

At points like these I imagine his supporters worrying about they will have to defend next. I can't imagine defending this though. It stops any sort of leaks from those fearful of revenge. We have seen in Ireland what people will do to stop whistleblowers recently.

Plus many of supporters agree ethically with Wikileaks and while they would not be affected the moral quandary remains the same.

BabyCheeses

jobbridge4life wrote: »

I'm assuming you are joking but I feel compelled to point out that Russia is a kleptocratic increasingly theocratic dictatorship that has been raped and pillaged by it's own ruling class who keep their populace in such a state of paranoia and ignorance that they can't see what is happening.

Sorry for being so pedantic but I actually think it is very important that everyone know what Russia under Putin has become, that we all know exactly what we are dealing with.

It sounds familiar or at least sounds like what a political party dreams of.

Christy42

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/02/24/politics/donald-trump-cpac-speech/index.html

More from his speech. I wonder why he is going to pay a large military to sit around and do nothing. He is planning a big budget spend on the military (well according to Trump- there are no reliable sources on this). I am curious what is going to pay for it.

Sam Russell

Christy42 wrote: »

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/02/24/politics/donald-trump-cpac-speech/index.html

More from his speech. I wonder why he is going to pay a large military to sit around and do nothing. He is planning a big budget spend on the military (well according to Trump- there are no reliable sources on this). I am curious what is going to pay for it.

More debt.

Inquitus

I am curious what is going to pay for it.

Mexico?

Frank Bullitt

Worrying tweet from Amanda Walker from Sky News.

Trump said he's going to do something about the 'fake news' media. @CNN now reporting they have been blocked from WH briefing. Troubling

And also this

The WH today handpicked which outlets could attend an on record briefing w/ @PressSec. Excluded CNN, NYT among others. AP & Time boycotted

This is all very Russian now.

jobbridge4life

https://twitter.com/thedailybeast/status/835207055698964480

and others.

This is it now. This really is it. This is the moment that we find out what is going to happen. Will the media capitulate to the Trump regime or does American liberal democracy survive?

I hope that this is the very thing that undoes Trump. I suspect, however, that it shall be the beginning of his permanent ascendancy.

It is fighting time lads. Time to pick which side of the field you want to be on.

BabyCheeses

Gintonious wrote: »

Worrying tweet from Amanda Walker from Sky News.



And also this



This is all very Russian now.

Yeah, take that liberal news! Goodbye freedom of the press based on what the president doesn't like.

recedite

Havockk wrote: »

I'm having a difficult time following your train of thought here. You are criticising Mogherini because the guy she beat was part of the 'elite'?

That's just bizarre.

No I'm saying she is largely irrelevant, which is why the German ambassador was talking to Bannon instead of her.
Also I'm saying the EU had a very lucky escape when she beat Sikorski, though hardly anybody in Europe realises it. Better to have an irrelevant foreign minister than a damaging one.

I can pretty much guess how the conversation went between Bannon and the ambassador, even though its not been made public AFAIK. The reason I can guess is that I think along similar lines to him.

Bannon; There's an awful lot of Mercs and BMWs on our streets, and I see you have yuge trade deficit with us. That's because you're using an undervalued currency to gain an unfair advantage over American car manufacturers.

German Ambassador; Well actually that's not the case, you see we Germans have to think of all the other Europeans, so the Euro trades at a level which is on average correct for the entire eurozone. If we increased its value relative to the dollar, those other countries would suffer. Also taking into account the entire EU, I don't see a massive trade surplus with the USA.

Bannon; Yeah, just because you have fcuked over those other EU countries doesn't mean you can do the same to us. We prefer to look at Germany's own trade surplus with the USA, not the EU average.

German Ambassador; I repeat, there is nothing the Bank of Frankfurt can do about the exchange rates at the moment, we must think of our Eurozone neighbours. Germany's industrial output under current policies is above average, while the others are below average, therefore on balance the currency is set at the correct level.

Bannon; On yer bike now, you cnut, and remember, Uncle Sam is watching you very closely.

Frank Bullitt

Blocked from White House media briefing

· CNN
· NY Times
· LA Times
· POLITICO
· BuzzFeed

Allowed to attend
· Breitbart

This really is the moment now, isn't it?

oscarBravo

Yourself isit wrote: »

In fact riots happen in sweden all the time.

For whatever reason, some people seem to feel they can authoritatively spout "alternative facts" about Sweden without getting called on it. So I'm calling you on it: please produce a source for this.

Now, don't bother coming up with a handful of news reports. I'm calling you on the "all the time" hyperbole.

recedite wrote: »

I can pretty much guess how the conversation went between Bannon and the ambassador, even though its not been made public AFAIK. The reason I can guess is that I think along similar lines to him.

You don't say.

johnnyskeleton

Mod note:

I know it's friday night and there's lots going on in the US and all, so some people may be out having a few pints or getting a bit excited, but please remember the standards required and don't backseat mod. Given the amount of warnings on this thread, including the one in the OP, I feel there is no choice but to start handing out cards, which may be followed by bans.

Itssoeasy

I see trump has banned certain news organisations from the daily press briefing. This is worrying to say the least. I know everyone boycotting the briefing won't help but I think as a group the American press need to do something to stand together. This isn't okay.

conditioned games

jobbridge4life wrote: »

I'm assuming you are joking but I feel compelled to point out that Russia is a kleptocratic increasingly theocratic dictatorship that has been raped and pillaged by it's own ruling class who keep their populace in such a state of paranoia and ignorance that they can't see what is happening.

Sorry for being so pedantic but I actually think it is very important that everyone know what Russia under Putin has become, that we all know exactly what we are dealing with.

Yes we know what Russia under Putin has become. He came in after the 98 financial crisis and brought stability, growth and economic reforms. Putin is highly regarded in Russia and comes across as a very likable and strong leader.

It's ironic someone with the name jobbridge is talking about exploitation. If you want to talk about rape and pillage then look at how the US uses the petro dollar to force countries to take their worthless paper currency in return for goods.

It was Putin that challenged the US hegemony by creating the Euroasian and BRICS alliance setting the roadmap to moving away from the world bank and IMF that improvish countries through interest on debt and also trading without using the US dollar as reserve currency. Putin so far is doing a very good job but lets pretend he is a big green eyed monster with a goats head and he is this and that and whatever else the mainstream media tells me.

BabyCheeses

conditioned games wrote: »

Yes we know what Russia under Putin has become. He came in after the 98 financial crisis and brought stability, growth and economic reforms. Putin is highly regarded in Russia and comes across as a very likable and strong leader.

It's ironic someone with the name jobbridge is talking about exploitation. If you want to talk about rape and pillage then look at how the US uses the petro dollar to force countries to take their worthless paper currency in return for goods.

It was Putin that challenged the US hegemony by creating the Euroasian and BRICS alliance setting the roadmap to moving away from the world bank and IMF that improvish countries through interest on debt and also trading without using the US dollar as reserve currency. Putin so far is doing a very good job but lets pretend he is a big green eyed monster with a goats head and he is this and that and whatever else the mainstream media tells me.

But I'm guessing the US is in the horrible state and only Trump could make it better?

Ignoring that there are states with a higher GDP than Russia.

demfad

Note connection between the news outlets not allowed in Spicer media gaggle? All of them are covering #trumprussia

Note also Trumps big attack on FBI earlier. Trump tries to get FBI to leak falsely to media, FBI says jog on, Trump attacks FBI.

Feels were on the verge of something very big.

Christy42

demfad wrote: »

Note connection between the news outlets not allowed in Spicer media gaggle? All of them are covering #trumprussia

Note also Trumps big attack on FBI earlier. Trump tries to get FBI to leak falsely to media, FBI says jog on, Trump attacks FBI.

Feels were on the verge of something very big.

Spicer seems to have said he increased the size of the pool http://money.cnn.com/2017/02/24/media/cnn-blocked-white-house-gaggle/index.html?iid=hp-toplead-intl

Who were they cutting out before? Will this be a long running thing? Hopefully they are stopped from pulling stunts like this again. I also hope that cnn, the times etc. stick to their guns and don't change coverage to get back into these meetings. I doubt they will though.

Frank Bullitt

Even Shep Smith from Fox news is defending CNN.

That says something.

Christy42

Gintonious wrote: »

Even Shep Smith from Fox news is defending CNN.

That says something.

I kinda figured. They have to see it hurts them too if this becomes the new norm. It limits what they can run to whatever the power of the day says.

Breitbart will see it as vindication but Fox are not at that level of quackery.

Mr.Micro

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I see trump has banned certain news organisations from the daily press briefing. This is worrying to say the least. I know everyone boycotting the briefing won't help but I think as a group the American press need to do something to stand together. This isn't okay.

Can you believe how childish Trump and his lot are in this day and age. This is the man who spouts rubbish and lies as a routine and expects standards from others.

Professor Moriarty

The poster who said that it's time to pick sides is spot on. The loons have won. The scary people are now in power and they are doing exactly what they said they would do. Trump is a clown and Bannon is a horrible human being but they are emboldened by power. They are attacking the freedom of the press and trying to control the judiciary and the intelligence services. They are getting away with unacceptable actions and very dangerous rhetoric. Trump's stupidity isn't just a joke anymore and his useful idiots on the internet are just a distraction. This isn't funny anymore. Best case scenario is that his malice perishes on the rock of American society and democracy. If it doesn't, it will be a blueprint for the ultra-right all over the world.