President 'The Donald' Trump and Surprising Consequences - Mod warning in OP

Zubeneschamali

Amerika wrote: »

Democrats will do everything they can to keep Trump from being successful.

If Trump actually wanted to do that whole infrastructure spending thing he campaigned on, plenty of Democrats would back him. But he won't try.

A "successful" Trump will cut spending on the poor, cut taxes on the super-rich, and run up the deficit with a war or two while enriching his business and his kids, bigly.

Of course Democrats will try to stop that agenda.

ancapailldorcha

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Of course Democrats will try to stop that agenda.

But this agenda is quite similar to the Democrats own agenda of war, self-enrichment and mass surveillance. There are no heroes here.

El_Duderino 09

Zubeneschamali wrote:

If Trump actually wanted to do that whole infrastructure spending thing he campaigned on, plenty of Democrats would back him. But he won't try.

This is exactly what he'll do. A huge stimulus would be useful as it would get people back to work and popular with democrats - i think republicans won't oppose him because of the popularity.

The debt will become a problem for another day. The ones with the biggest problem will be fiscal conservatives and fox news who have always opposed borrowing to spend on little people. Then again it will probably be a simple con trick. They can say this stimulus is actually going to get people back to work blah blah.

It would be a great idea particularly in the short term. It would have been great of Obama had gotten it through too but he didn't.

FreudianSlippers

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

This is exactly what he'll do. A huge stimulus would be useful as it would get people back to work and popular with democrats - i think republicans won't oppose him because of the popularity.

The debt will become a problem for another day. The ones with the biggest problem will be fiscal conservatives and fox news who have always opposed borrowing to spend on little people. Then again it will probably be a simple con trick. They can say this stimulus is actually going to get people back to work blah blah.

It would be a great idea particularly in the short term. It would have been great of Obama had gotten it through too but he didn't.

I'd be surprised if he gets away with that without increasing taxes. Republicans may have legislative control, but Trump certainly doesn't.

El_Duderino 09

FreudianSlippers wrote:

I'd be surprised if he gets away with that without increasing taxes. Republicans may have legislative control, but Trump certainly doesn't.

Who wanted to raise taxes in the Celtic tiger? Nobody who got elected or wanted to be reelected. That's who.

FreudianSlippers

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Who wanted to raise taxes in the Celtic tiger? Nobody who got elected or wanted to be reelected. That's who.

Luckily there are still fiscal conservatives in the Republican House and Senate.

El_Duderino 09

With trump you have to look at which images of himself he's trying to enshrine in the public's mind. I think those are the images here intends to lean on when he's doing the opposite.

E.g. he spent ages going on about how tough he would be with Russia. In reality I think he will do nothing y upset Russia - he's not even curious about the fake news and hacking.

He spoke for ages about not getting American troops involved in other countries and he'll lean on that reputation as he sends military apparatus to other countries.

People are saying he'll have to raise taxes to find the other programmes. Why? It's free money to Trump. He can borrow and spend as much as he wants and HE never has to pay it back.

I'm tired of saying it but it's worth repeating; trump is not a politician. He doesn't care about the country or its survival. He can go in and effectively address strip the entire nation and leave it in debt up to its eyeballs. It's what he does in other parts of his business. Why not the presidency too?

El_Duderino 09

Now there are fiscal conservatives, but not when the party gets started. Those party poopers won't last an election when there are Trumpites who are running against them.

Trump isn't in union with his party. He would be a fool if he doesn't try to take over the party with a new movement. The Tea Party tried and i see Trump as the natural successor to that movement. I think he'll make life very difficult for those fiscal conservatives.

PopePalpatine

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Luckily there are still fiscal conservatives in the Republican House and Senate.

I brought the following up in the "President Trump" thread in AH - I think they'll be placated by getting allowed to gut Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security in exchange for whatever infrastructure plans Trump has in mind.

K-9

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

With trump you have to look at which images of himself he's trying to enshrine in the public's mind. I think those are the images here intends to lean on when he's doing the opposite.

E.g. he spent ages going on about how tough he would be with Russia. In reality I think he will do nothing y upset Russia - he's not even curious about the fake news and hacking.

He spoke for ages about not getting American troops involved in other countries and he'll lean on that reputation as he sends military apparatus to other countries.

People are saying he'll have to raise taxes to find the other programmes. Why? It's free money to Trump. He can borrow and spend as much as he wants and HE never has to pay it back.

I'm tired of saying it but it's worth repeating; trump is not a politician. He doesn't care about the country or its survival. He can go in and effectively address strip the entire nation and leave it in debt up to its eyeballs. It's what he does in other parts of his business. Why not the presidency too?

Hell become worried about fake news when it gets targeted at him.

That's the beauty of Conspiracy Theories, they'll always exist regardless of who the President is.

El_Duderino 09

K-9 wrote:

Hell become worried about fake news when it gets targeted at him.

Not if he has influence over it. He'd be more likely to curb high brow criticism that uses satire, or metaphors and investigative journalism.

K-9 wrote:

That's the beauty of Conspiracy Theories, they'll always exist regardless of who the President is.

To be fair what I'm saying amounts to conspiracy theory based only on his previous behaviour.

Anyone who thinks they know what his values are is essentially doing the same thing based on his words.

Neither are good predictors of future behaviour but his words are actually meaningless.

KingBrian2

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Not if he has influence over it. He'd be more likely to curb high brow criticism that uses satire, or metaphors and investigative journalism.



To be fair what I'm saying amounts to conspiracy theory based only on his previous behaviour.

Anyone who thinks they know what his values are is essentially doing the same thing based on his words.

Neither are good predictors of future behaviour but his words are actually meaningless.

The world does not have to trust what he says only what he does. So far he still is in campaign mode with his attacks on the Chinese and letting the Chinese keep the US spy drone in the South China Sea. This will be eaten up by the GOP who for years have been calling for war against China. Trump needs to start concentrating on his trade deals he says need changing. The devil will be in the detail when it comes to what agreements he reaches with the Mexicans, Russians, Chinese or Indians.

oscarBravo

KingBrian2 wrote: »

So far he still is in campaign mode...

Hopefully one of these days he'll notice that the election is over.

KingBrian2

oscarBravo wrote: »

Hopefully one of these days he'll notice that the election is over.

It will never end. HA HA HEEH HEEH HUH HUH.:D

Overheal

Just when you thought the ink had dried on Net Neutrality protection, the appointment of a new right-leaning FCC has made some of the commission bold enough to shoot try and shoot it down again.

http://gizmodo.com/remaining-fcc-commissioners-promise-to-gut-net-neutrali-1790363416

The biggest change promised by the FCC commissioners, however, is the repeal of the Title II net neutrality order that prohibits ISPs from blocking or throttling web traffic. The Title II order is by far the most controversial part of the net neutrality rules and ensures that ISPs can’t charge people more money for visiting websites like Netflix or YouTube. If revoked, it would significantly change how people pay for and use the internet.

Nothing good about that for anybody, except telecom corps.

PopePalpatine

B-b-but the freer the market, the freer the people!

Overheal

It's only a free market until you want a monopoly upheld or a patent protected indefinitely, or want to sue the crap out of someone for watching Game of Thrones by unpaid means, or lock customers into binding arbitration, or...

Overheal

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/811977223326625792


"We won't come to our senses until they do! Bing bing bong!"

El_Duderino 09

Overheal wrote:

"We won't come to our senses until they do! Bing bing bong!"

Good thing he spent so much time telling everyone he's not an interventionist military hawk like Hillary. Otherwise we might see this as Trump ramping up tensions - but we know he's not interventionist because he said so.

K-9

The definition of non-interventist will change!

Overheal

K-9 wrote: »

The definition of non-interventist will change!

"Draining the Swamp" already means the opposite. So does "Lock her up"

AnGaelach

Overheal wrote: »

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/811977223326625792


"We won't come to our senses until they do! Bing bing bong!"

If he's talking about overhauling their nuclear arsenal it makes sense - the missile corp has woeful morale because they're left sitting in bunkers for 18 hours a day looking at a computer from the 1990s until they finish their contracts. The missiles that undergo repairs are never quite as good because the industry hasn't produced those parts in years so you always get "almost-as-good" parts.

Russia realised this problem a few years ago, they've been bringing 30-40 missiles into active service each year since iirc.

So, more nukes isn't a good idea, but replacing the missiles they currently use most certainly is.

El_Duderino 09

KingBrian2 wrote:

The world does not have to trust what he says only what he does. So far he still is in campaign mode with his attacks on the Chinese and letting the Chinese keep the US spy drone in the South China Sea. This will be eaten up by the GOP who for years have been calling for war against China. Trump needs to start concentrating on his trade deals he says need changing. The devil will be in the detail when it comes to what agreements he reaches with the Mexicans, Russians, Chinese or Indians.

I'm delighted to see you've come to see it like that. Do you still consider yourself to know his values? (I'm curious to know if anyone actually changed their mind about these things)

I consider his jabs, talking to Taiwanese President and the nuclear comment, to be part of his China strategy.

El_Duderino 09

K-9 wrote:

The definition of non-interventist will change!

It will and it won't. He'll say he only ibtervened in situations where it's absolutely necessary and will result in positive outcomes -exactly the same thing as everyone else says. Think Tony Blair in Iraq.

AnGaelach

KingBrian2 wrote: »

The world does not have to trust what he says only what he does. So far he still is in campaign mode with his attacks on the Chinese and letting the Chinese keep the US spy drone in the South China Sea. This will be eaten up by the GOP who for years have been calling for war against China. Trump needs to start concentrating on his trade deals he says need changing. The devil will be in the detail when it comes to what agreements he reaches with the Mexicans, Russians, Chinese or Indians.

What exactly were they spying on, the salinity of the water?:(

recedite

AnGaelach wrote: »

What exactly were they spying on, the salinity of the water?:(

Possibly gathering info which would be useful for submarine warfare.
Trump has simply exposed the hypocrisy that there was ever any agreement over the Chinese "One China" policy. Communist China has always claimed the right to take over capitalist Taiwan whenever it feels militarily capable of doing that.
The USA has always said it would defend Taiwan in that event. Nothing has changed as far as I can see. The Chinese are only codding themselves by saying that "One China" was an internationally agreed policy. If there was any agreement at all, it was only an agreement to differ.

El_Duderino 09

Trump's first 100 days will get interesting. I think he'll try to completely avoid doing anything he mentioned in the campaign. It would suit him not to get caught up in an accounting exercise where the public holds him to account for his promises.

Instead he'll do some completely unrelated set of actions, done if which will be designed to be universally popular even with people outside his core biter group.

He'll also drop a few dead cats on the table to distract the media and make sure he controls the narrative of the first 100 days.

The media gave out about Obama and Hillary. Trump will literally treat them like dogs and they'll eat from his hand.

recedite

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

It would suit him not to get caught up in an accounting exercise where the public holds him to account for his promises.

I'd call them ideas and proposals more than "promises". The only people trying to "hold him to account" will be the Trump-haters. Others will be more interested in what the future holds.

It has been said that Trump supporters took him seriously from the start, but never took him literally.
Trump-haters on the other hand, took him too literally, while failing to take him seriously.

El_Duderino 09

recedite wrote:

I'd call them ideas and proposals more than "promises". The only people trying to "hold him to account" will be the Trump-haters. Others will be more interested in what the future holds.

I think you're right. It's a strange type of democracy when the people start Trump's presidency with absolutely no idea what his intentions are.

How does that work? I don't think people ever say they wish they voted for the other guy. They just use cognitive dissonance to rationalise why they like the outcomes under the guy they voted for.

With no actual expectations of what he's going to do, trump's voters are very likely to jump on board with whatever the does.

KingBrian2

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I think you're right. It's a strange type of democracy when the people start Trump's presidency with absolutely no idea what his intentions are.

How does that work? I don't think people ever say they wish they voted for the other guy. They just use cognitive dissonance to rationalise why they like the outcomes under the guy they voted for.

With no actual expectations of what he's going to do, trump's voters are very likely to jump on board with whatever the does.

Donald Trump's Presidential inauguration has yet to come yet. Thus far he has succeeded in annoying every Democrat and Republican in Congress without becoming President. The Tea Party waited until Pres Obama was introducing Health Care for people with preexisting conditions before launching into attack.

The Trump Presidency has annoyed the very same people that don't believe in consensus politics. They are unhappy with the vote and want to do all they can to undermine him. They are paving the way for the next election so they can get into office and start the spending again.

Are the Democrats going to sit down and work with Trump for the Nation or do they hate him so much they want him to be a disaster so that they can run a great candidate in a few years times maybe another Clinton.:rolleyes: