President 'The Donald' Trump and Surprising Consequences - Mod warning in OP

Hank Scorpio

wonderfullife wrote: »

Why release all they have on Trump right now? Why not see what they can get from him first?

That's how this stuff works in life. Intelligence Community have the dirt on Trump and they can either release it all now and get Trump impeached OR leverage it against him to get what they want.

Fiona Hill is the most un-Trump like pick. She's a liberal Democrat and an Intelligence Community darling.

There is not a single reason to pick a woman from the Brookings Institution other than to appease the Intel Community with one of "their picks". She's a British dual-national liberal and now somehow lands a prime job in Trump Land.

The leaks have value. They'll drip them until Trump stops playing ball.

It's not how it works man. The Clinton campaign were crawling with the Wikileaks releases, if they had something to combat it they would have released it. The final release they ddosed Twitter and Wikileaks, that's all they could do. I was there that night, after this twitter post was posted. The energy was incredible online..

https://twitter.com/jmpalmieri/status/795264366547533824

Without Wikileaks Trump probably would have lost, I actually think it's definitive. The Sanders stuff was a huge blow.

wonderfullife

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

My stance, I'm sick of the corruption and the Clinton "machine." Trump is flawed but he hits hard, and I can relate to it.

Donald Trump Jr. was paid $50,000 to give a speech for French politicans recently.

Kuwaiti dignitaries paid $60,000 at a Trump Hotel for a party.

The Japanese delegation stayed at Mar A Lago at $2,000 a room per night.

Mar A Lago increased membership to $200,000 a year and Trump is staying there nearly every weekend and his members are being openly sold on "diplomatic access stays".

Betsy DeVos has paid $200 million to the GOP in total to get her job she knows nothing about.

Wilbur Ross (totally unqualified) a Billionaire pal of Trump, with dodgy connections to Russia, got the job.

4 former executives of Goldman Sachs are already appointed to Trumps administration.

Ivanka Trump had her own clothing line advertised by Kellyanne Conway.

China gave Trump a trademark to build hotels and he suddenly went quiet on One-China-Policy.


I could literally write another 50 things.

If you're sick of corruption, you've picked the wrong administration. This (already) is the most corrupt administration ever assembled in US history.

wonderfullife

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

It's not how it works man.

Give me one good reason Fiona Hill got the job.

She wrote THIS not even a year ago:

http://www.vox.com/2016/7/27/12304448/putin-elections-dnc-hack

She's an admitted lifelong democrat/liberal and she has just landed one of the top jobs going at the State Department.

Why? Well, possibly because the Intel Community said they want her. Trump played hardball saying no. Intel Community says "Oh. I see. That's a pity". Then LEAK LEAK LEAK and Flynn is gone.

How about Fiona again Mr. Trump?

She's hired!

Hank Scorpio

wonderfullife wrote: »

Donald Trump Jr. was paid $50,000 to give a speech for French politicans recently.

Kuwaiti dignitaries paid $60,000 at a Trump Hotel for a party.

The Japanese delegation stayed at Mar A Lago at $2,000 a room per night.

Mar A Lago increased membership to $200,000 a year and Trump is staying there nearly every weekend and his members are being openly sold on "diplomatic access stays".

Betsy DeVos has paid $200 million to the GOP in total to get her job she knows nothing about.

Wilbur Ross (totally unqualified) a Billionaire pal of Trump, with dodgy connections to Russia, got the job.

4 former executives of Goldman Sachs are already appointed to Trumps administration.

Ivanka Trump had her own clothing line advertised by Kellyanne Conway.

China gave Trump a trademark to build hotels and he suddenly went quiet on One-China-Policy.


I could literally write another 50 things.

If you're sick of corruption, you've picked the wrong administration. This (already) is the most corrupt administration ever assembled in US history.

Nothing of it compares to me, when you are selling arms deals and taking tens of millions from foreign governments funding ISIS through a "charity" while being in office.

That's the point I guess we'll end up disagreeing at. I don't say that there isn't shady stuff going on, but I'm willing to give others a chance. If the same thing happens I'll call it out again, but there isn't anything right now that's out there.

My opinion is something very bad and very evil was going on. And I'll stick to it, for now.

Just FYI, I don't click Vox links , unless Breitbart is allowed.

Also if you're attacking Trump's cabinet picks because people donated, don't forget Obama's cabinet was chosen by the big bank Citigroup.

https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/8190 ( view attachment and eventual cabinet, this was before Obama won )

wonderfullife

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

Nothing of it compares to me, when you are selling arms deals and taking tens of millions from foreign governments funding ISIS through a "charity" while being in office.

That's the point I guess we'll end up disagreeing at. I don't say that there isn't shady stuff going on, but I'm willing to give others a chance. If the same thing happens I'll call it out again, but there isn't anything.

Trump is in the process of taking HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS from foreign governments.

Let's say the Japanese delegation was 40 strong. That's a fair number.

They stayed 3 nights in Mar-a-Lago at $2,000 per night. That's $250,000 for one weekend alone from one country.

You don't need to be a maths genius to figure if this continues and expands, with foreign diplomats encouraged to stay there mid-week and weekends when in town, he's going to make hundreds of millions off the Presidency simply from Mar-a-Lago.

And it'll get far worse, mark my words. Trump Organisation will suddenly get all sorts of deals worldwide to sweeten Donald up. They were denied planning permission for a hotel in Argentina until low and behold a phone call between Jared Kushner and some Argentine diplomat and now the planning permission is sorted.

It's corruption on a scale never seen before and makes the Clinton Foundation look like complete amateurs in the Corruption Game.

Hank Scorpio

Time will tell I guess. If there is corruption it will be exposed, and you know yourself this time it won't be ignored.

GN, was fun and I understand your POV to a degree, just not enough to make me change sides.

wonderfullife

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

Time will tell I guess. If there is corruption it will be exposed, and you know yourself this time it won't be ignored.

GN, was fun and I understand your POV to a degree, just not enough to make me change sides.

I really feel for you in this thread and i'm not trying to make you change sides, either.

There's a sad reality to life and it's quite a simple one: We are all ok with hypocrisy when it suits us.

Not sure if you're a soccer fan but when Thierry Henry did that infamous hand-ball and arguably cost us progressing to the tournament, we were all up-in-arms about it, calling for replays and appeals. The truth is if Robbie Keane had done it at the other end, we'd all say "ah sure look, nobody died and we qualified!!".

Clinton was corrupt and you had a problem with it because, well, she was on the opposing side. Trump is even more corrupt but hypocrisy is ok because you're a human being and that's just what we do. He's on your side so you'll view it through a completely different prism and shrug your shoulders.

That's just life

I think more people would go easy on the Trump side if his fans just acknowledged he's a corrupt buffoon and said "but he's OUR corrupt buffoon". What winds people up is the mental gymnastics people go through to try defend the indefensible and constantly revert to "But Hillary" or try make Trump out to be 'different'.

The only way Trump is different (so far) is he is brazen with his corruption, no attempt to hide it. Hillary would have sneaked that Japanese delegation into her hotel and quietly upped the room rates. Trump was just like "F it! 2 grand a night and people can take selfies."

Anyway hope our little duel was at least informative to someone

KingBrian2

wonderfullife wrote: »

I really feel for you in this thread and i'm not trying to make you change sides, either.

There's a sad reality to life and it's quite a simple one: We are all ok with hypocrisy when it suits us.

Not sure if you're a soccer fan but when Thierry Henry did that infamous hand-ball and arguably cost us progressing to the tournament, we were all up-in-arms about it, calling for replays and appeals. The truth is if Robbie Keane had done it at the other end, we'd all say "ah sure look, nobody died and we qualified!!".

Clinton was corrupt and you had a problem with it because, well, she was on the opposing side. Trump is even more corrupt but hypocrisy is ok because you're a human being and that's just what we do. He's on your side so you'll view it through a completely different prism and shrug your shoulders.

That's just life

I think more people would go easy on the Trump side if his fans just acknowledged he's a corrupt buffoon and said "but he's OUR corrupt buffoon". What winds people up is the mental gymnastics people go through to try defend the indefensible and constantly revert to "But Hillary" or try make Trump out to be 'different'.

The only way Trump is different (so far) is he is brazen with his corruption, no attempt to hide it. Hillary would have sneaked that Japanese delegation into her hotel and quietly upped the room rates. Trump was just like "F it! 2 grand a night and people can take selfies."

Anyway hope our little duel was at least informative to someone

That Thierry affair was an embarrassment and we found out late FIFA is up to it's neck in corruption itself. We wanted our lads to get into world cup even though we lost the match. Shocking and disgraceful.

The other factor about Hillary is she put herself on the side of fighting for the little guy or human rights which was blatantly hypocritical her patrons in Saudi Arabia & Qatar were fueling her campaign.

wonderfullife

KingBrian2 wrote: »

That Thierry affair was an embarrassment and we found out late FIFA is up to it's neck in corruption itself. We wanted our lads to get into world cup even though we lost the match. Shocking and disgraceful.

The other factor about Hillary is she put herself on the side of fighting for the little guy or human rights which was blatantly hypocritical her patrons in Saudi Arabia & Qatar were fueling her campaign.

You take my point though? Hypocrisy in life is so common. We all do it.

As for Hillary, yeah she was in bed with Saudi Arabia & Qatar but Trump has dodgy dealings out that way as well, not to mention questionable ties to Russia.

I've no problem people supporting Trump but call a spade a spade. He's more corrupt than her, he's just less cynical and secretive about it.

There's something almost endearing about the brazen nature of his corruption. Every single law professor in America is saying he's in violation of the Constitution and Trump (& his fans) are like "Meh who cares" or "but hillary.....".

Igotadose

For those keeping track, here's the latest round of 'but we didn't speak to the Russians' report: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/03/02/trump-teams-many-many-denials-contacts-russia/98625780/

Summary: "Trump team issued at least 20 denials of contacts with Russia"

My opinion, Sessions is gone, the WH is probably scrambling to find a replacement. I wonder what happens with his seat in Alabama, I imagine the governor there appoints a replacement. A special election would be hilarious if a Democrat won, but I'm dreaming.

I've been calling the Trump 'machine' the gang that couldn't shoot straight, and here they go again, to quote Reagan. Seems like that billionaire who weaponized social media on behalf of the Trump campaign and help from the Russians, plus the endless Faux Noise about Clintons is why Trump won. His team can't get out of its own way. Saw an article where K. T. MacFarland, deputy at the NSC, might leave as well and she was competent at least.

Well, every action he and his administration takes is on his supporters until that administration's gone.

seamus

So it turns out that not only was Mike Pence been using a private email account to discuss sensitive matters of homeland security, but the account had actually been hacked.

And Pence was supposed to be the straight man in this comedy duo.

Will all of those people who got red in the face about Hillary's emails now be calling for Pence to step down? I doubt it.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-pence-email-idUSKBN16A03O

Professor Moriarty

You know the elite have won when a rich kid failed 'businessman' billionaire is elected POTUS. Their win is further confirmed when he refuses to release his tax returns and boasts that hasn't paid tax for twenty years. We have finally disappeared down the rabbit hole when his supporters cheer and defend the fact that a billionaire POTUS has paid less annual tax than an 18 year old kid working in McDonald's. The useful idiots deserve everything they get.

Leroy42

IMO, I don't think Trump did anything illegal with Russia but he saw the chance to make a deal and took it. Trump was losing badly in the polls and Wikileaks both kept him in the game and also diverted a lot of investigations away from him and onto HC.

Russia had more and probably let it be known to Trumps team. But they wanted something in return. Not Trump as President as such, I doubt Russia are really too bothered who is the actual President more so what the policies will be. In HC they saw a continuation of the Obama thinking, which had not been good for Russia since Crimea.

So they tell Trump they can 'help' things, even the playing field. HC was getting away with lots of things and this was only fair. And all they wanted was that if he did win Tillerson (Putins mate) would be given SOSUS and the sanctions would be lifted. Trump then would get some part of the deal or be able to make other deals in Russia .

You won't ever find a contract or a deal. Things don't work that way. Its not even about Russia taking down the US, or getting rid of Democracy. This is simply about money. Putin needs to get his economy moving again so avoid any questions being asked. Tillerson lost out on a $500bn deal because of sanctions and Trump is only ever about the money.

I would even be of the impression that the run for POTUS was more a branding exercise than anything else. Winning would be great, but the prime objective was to increase the Trump brand name. He has done many things since becoming POTUS thats backs that assertion up. The fact his family don't plan to move. This wasn't really considered something that would happen. Increasing prices in Mar a Lago, renting out space in Trump Tower, pushing Ivankas clothes line on Twitter and KellyAnne. Trump is all about making money and POTUS gives him the perfect opportunity.

Russia wanted to destabilsie HC in a bid to get sanctions lifted, and Trump was a way they could, potentially do it. Trump had the potential to make massive profits in Russia and potentially win POTUS.

In terms of why the FBI etc haven't realised everything they have (if they have it) is because these things work better as a flow rather than a dump. Newscycles mean that no matter what something else will probably come up in a few days time and if the dump is big enough then the media gets too scattered and they all want to focus onn a different piece, meaning nothing gets tackled or answered. By dripping it out, the pressure continues to build and you let the person walk themselves into blind alleys are they try to spin one thing only to find that leads to further questions the next time.

Trump has now suffered 3 very damaging blows. 1st, losing the EO in the courts. That is not just it being voted down, as that can be argued as bi-partisanship. This was the courts basically calling out Trump for trying to be unconstitutional. Either he doesn't care enough to spend the time to get it right, or he was ignorant. Neither is a good look.
2nd losing Flynn within two weeks. He lied to Pence, and allowed Pence to repeat that on TV. But Flynn and Trump knew of that a few weeks before. So Trump comes out of that not looking like a strong leader (which he could have if he acted fast) but instead looking like someone who was willing to accept lies unless it made him look bad.
3rd Sessions having to recuse himself. The Democrats had a big problem with Sessions from the start but Trump stood by him and complained that his cabinet picks were being unfairly treated. Now this comes out and Trump looks like either he has no clue abou the peole he is appointing, or simply doesn't care. Again neither is a good look for POTUS

Professor Moriarty

seamus wrote: »

So it turns out that not only was Mike Pence been using a private email account to discuss sensitive matters of homeland security, but the account had actually been hacked.

And Pence was supposed to be the straight man in this comedy duo.

Will all of those people who got red in the face about Hillary's emails now be calling for Pence to step down? I doubt it.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-pence-email-idUSKBN16A03O

Lock him up!

demfad

Leroy42 wrote: »

IMO, I don't think Trump did anything illegal with Russia but he saw the chance to make a deal and took it. Trump was losing badly in the polls and Wikileaks both kept him in the game and also diverted a lot of investigations away from him and onto HC.

Russia had more and probably let it be known to Trumps team. But they wanted something in return. Not Trump as President as such, I doubt Russia are really too bothered who is the actual President more so what the policies will be.

So a presidential candidate conspired to use the aid of a foreign hostile power to get elected in return for giving favourable policies to said foreign power when elected.

That would be treason and espionage, and both are very illegal let me assure you.

demfad

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

When Kellyanne came out and said that he won't be releasing them the narrative changed for sure. I still believe if there was some underhanded dealings it would be common knowledge by now. These days you can't hide anything, especially when the Intel agencies are gunning for him and they have access to everything. The only thing that makes sense is some offshore banks, which the media were conspiring to for a while but it quickly died down. The tax thing is one of the few things his detractors can pummel in his face and his defenders can't defend it.

What about withholding his taxes to hide these Russian connections: would that make sense?

Thomas__

demfad wrote: »

Leroy42 wrote: »

IMO, I don't think Trump did anything illegal with Russia but he saw the chance to make a deal and took it.  Trump was losing badly in the polls and Wikileaks both kept him in the game and also diverted a lot of investigations away from him and onto HC.

Russia had more and probably let it be known to Trumps team.  But they wanted something in return.  Not Trump as President as such, I doubt Russia are really too bothered who is the actual President more so what the policies will be.  

So a presidential candidate conspired to use the aid of a foreign hostile power to get elected in return for giving favourable policies to said foreign power when elected.

That would be treason and espionage, and both are very illegal let me assure you.

You´re quite right there and I see it the same way as you do. I really don´t get it how people can be so blinded and deluded by the cheap and clumsy performance of this worst of the worse U.S. Presidents ever. Trumpists are very keen to find every excuse for him, even when it is as feeble as it can be. Trump can´t be trusted and I am not getting blinded by this chap even when he eats tons of chalk to sound and appear "presidential" which he never will be because in every way, at any rate and by all means he totally lacks any substance on that. He´s just putting up his Show and wants to have the people believe his crap, but for that he is a very very bad actor.

It is just a matter of (a short) time until he bursts out again and shows his true colours, the colours of a nasty man with a very big ego to feed. The whole person is really insufferable.

demfad

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

Woah. That's a lot of stuff there and not all of it relevant to the matter at hand. By worst case scenario I meant Trump himself being implicated in the illegal contacts with Russia or so many of his people that the entire administration collapses and he resigns.

If that happens the ranges of people, companies, governments, murders I alluded to will be thoroughly investigated. Trump and several of his campaign team will go to jail along with many many more. It will be the biggest scandal in American history.

Leroy42

demfad wrote: »

So a presidential candidate conspired to use the aid of a foreign hostile power to get elected in return for giving favourable policies to said foreign power when elected.

That would be treason and espionage, and both are very illegal let me assure you.

Yes, you are quite correct in that.

I think a better way to say what I was trying to say is that Trump did not set out to do anything illegal. I don't think there was a vast conspiracy against the US. I don't think Trump is actively working for Putin etc.

He saw business deal. That it involved Russia is of no consequence to him. Now, I fully accept that if he did it then yes, it would be illegal. Just that I don't think, just my opinion, that there was anything more than money at the root of it all.

demfad

Leroy42 wrote: »

Yes, you are quite correct in that.

I think a better way to say what I was trying to say is that Trump did not set out to do anything illegal. I don't think there was a vast conspiracy against the US. I don't think Trump is actively working for Putin etc.

He saw business deal. That it involved Russia is of no consequence to him. Now, I fully accept that if he did it then yes, it would be illegal. Just that I don't think, just my opinion, that there was anything more than money at the root of it all.

Trump has been doing illegal things all his life. According to the dossier Russia has been feeding him for atleast 5 years. He has been fronting for money laundering Russian criminals since the 1990s.

There is plenty of evidence out there for all of this stuff.

There is a deeper conspiracy IMO involving the Mercers, Bannon etc. and Russia to change the global order to patriarcal nationalism. End the EU, Nato, diminish US Federal government etc.

If there is a deeper inquiry I believe evidence of coordination between these. It is plain to anyone that Wikileaks, Russia, Breitbart, Cambridge Analytica, European RW are all singing off the same hymn sheet.

If Trump turns the US into an autocracy, we in Europe are in grave danger.
Everyone needs to get educated on this and quick IMO.

Professor Moriarty

demfad wrote:

If that happens the ranges of people, companies, governments, murders I alluded to will be thoroughly investigated. Trump and several of his campaign team will go to jail along with many many more. It will be the biggest scandal in American history.

Is it really that bad?

demfad

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Is it really that bad?

This is just some of how bad it is: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=102789489&postcount=4676

Leroy42

I certainly agree with you that Trump places Europe in great danger. I have said a number of times that at this time the EU needs to get its act together and stop at playing at being a group and actually do it. I think the UK could not have picked a worse time to decide to go it alone.

There is a lot of stuff about money laundering etc. Do you really think that is true? How has he been able to avoid the glare of the FBI etc all this time? Surely, with Obama in the White House, if there was stuff on Trump in the ether, the Democrats would have released it prior to the actual election? It makes no sense for them to have sat on it, especially once Comey opened up the e-mails investigation can of works two weeks before the vote.

Chips Lovell

A vast conspiracy seems unlikely. The evidence at the moment suggests opportunism. To quote that New Yorker piece I linked to earlier:

The working theory among intelligence officials involved in the case is that the Russian approach—including hacking, propaganda, and contacts with Trump associates—was an improvisation rather than a long-standing plan. The official said, “After the election, there were a lot of Embassy communications”—to Moscow—“saying, stunned, ‘What we do now?’ ”

And

Initially, members of the Russian élite celebrated Clinton’s disappearance from the scene, and the new drift toward an America First populism that would leave Russia alone. The fall of Michael Flynn and the prospect of congressional hearings, though, have tempered the enthusiasm. Fyodor Lukyanov, the editor-in-chief of a leading foreign-policy journal in Moscow, said that Trump, facing pressure from congressional investigations, the press, and the intelligence agencies, might now have to be a far more “ordinary Republican President than was initially thought.” In other words, Trump might conclude that he no longer has the political latitude to end sanctions against Moscow and accommodate Russia’s geopolitical ambitions. As a sign of the shifting mood in Moscow, the Kremlin ordered Russian television outlets to be more reserved in their coverage of the new President.

Zubeneschamali

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

A vast conspiracy seems unlikely.

Not demfad's vast conspiracy, no, but certainly a conspiracy - Trump's people met with Russians in Trump Tower and in Europe. Trump openly called on Russia to hack Hillary's emails and leak them:

"Russia, if you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing," Trump said at a press conference in Doral, Florida, Wednesday morning after the second night of the Democratic convention. "I think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press. Let’s see if that happens."

Trump also suggested Russia may already have the emails after a hack of Democratic National Committee files, which the party learned of in the late spring. The FBI announced Monday it is opening an investigation into the incident. "I hope they do," Trump said of Russia having the emails, which could contain classified information. "You'd see some beauties in there."

Chips Lovell

Oh no, to be clear, I'm not disagreeing on that. What I'm suggesting is that if there was contact, it's unlikely to go that far beyond what you've sketched out there.

J Mysterio

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Lock him up!

Crooked Pence?

Sam Russell

J Mysterio wrote: »

Crooked Pence?

I would have thought 'Spent Pence'

swampgas

When Nixon resigned, the Vice President took over. What if both Trump and Pence end up so compromised that neither are acceptable as President, what happens then? Is there a designated order of succession or does Congress have to appoint someone? Or a new election?

Chips Lovell

swampgas wrote: »

When Nixon resigned, the Vice President took over. What if both Trump and Pence end up so compromised that neither are acceptable as President, what happens then? Is there a designated order of succession or does Congress have to appoint someone? Or a new election?

There's a designated order.

If Trump and Pence both resign and no new VP has been confirmed, Paul Ryan becomes president.