President 'The Donald' Trump and Surprising Consequences - Mod warning in OP

mayo.mick

Water John wrote: »

Link not working, Calina.

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/03/13/donald-trumps-worst-deal

26000 Elephants

Amerika wrote: »

Don’t count your chickens before they’re hatched.



We know according to WikiLeaks of Obama's extensive use of wiretaps. And it's a long list.

WikiLeaks Believes Trump's Wiretapping Claim May Be Justified

So thats you & SputnikNews.com then,

Of course if you read the source, it says nothing of the sort. Except that the they were being investigated by the authorities while Obama was President. Which is not the same thing at all.

robinph

Newsnight had a couple of Trump fanatics on to chat. They seemed very angry at the suggestion that Trump could possibly do or say anything wrong, ever, and the inauguration crowd was obviously the biggest ever because they were there and they said so so it must be true. There really is no talking sense to some people:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39186644

Leroy42

So Trump, as President, now gets daily intelligence briefings. He is, in essence, allowed to see all confidential and classified information.

So, if he did think that something was going on with a wire tap, he could easily have requested that information.

It appears, from what all the spokes people were saying yesterday, that he has some sort of idea that something was up and now he wants an investigation into it. Now, I wonder who he should ask to get that information?

He now wants the House to investigate what is essentially an idea. He has no evidence, they are not even sure if there is anything at all to it.

Whether it is true or not, (and I guess Trump is betting he has a 50% chance) to simply blurt this out, to call into question the integrity of both the previous POTUS and the intelligence agencies, when he could easily have ascertained the basic facts first. If true, then launch and investigation in to how it happened, but that is not what they are looking for. Trump appears to want to see if it happened at all.

He is getting his information from Breibart and Radio, which I would imagine are getting their info from unnamed sources. Yet, Trump has direct access to the information himself. Just call Comey etc.

This is the man tasked with leading the US and he can't even work out the abilities being the president gives him. It raises the very clear danger that should Breibart claim that NK launched a nuclear weapon he will simply launch without any fact checking first.

Professor Moriarty

robinph wrote: »

Newsnight had a couple of Trump fanatics on to chat. They seemed very angry at the suggestion that Trump could possibly do or say anything wrong, ever, and the inauguration crowd was obviously the biggest ever because they were there and they said so so it must be true. There really is no talking sense to some people:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39186644

I watched that last night. My impression is that they are cashing in on their 'celebrity status' as vociferous, ultra fanatical Trump supporters whose claim to fame is being black. If they had been white good ol boys from Texas it would have been of little interest.

Zubeneschamali

Leroy42 wrote: »

Just call Comey etc.

But Comey is not telling him what he wants to hear- Bannon and Brietbart are.

26000 Elephants

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

I watched that last night. My impression is that they are cashing in on their 'celebrity status' as vociferous, ultra fanatical Trump supporters whose claim to fame is being black. If they had been white good ol boys from Texas it would have been of little interest.

Evan Davis' massive fail at keeping a straight face was priceless...

Amerika

26000 Elephants wrote: »

So thats you & SputnikNews.com then,

Of course if you read the source, it says nothing of the sort. Except that the they were being investigated by the authorities while Obama was President. Which is not the same thing at all.

I don't know what you're getting on about. You do understand the term "The Buck Stops Here?"

Here is the list from WikiLeaks of Obama wire tapping victims...

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/03/draft-heres-the-complete-list-of-victims-from-obamas-many-wiretaps/

Christy42

Amerika wrote: »

I don't know what you're getting on about. You do understand the term "The Buck Stops Here?"

Here is the list from WikiLeaks of Obama wire tapping victims...

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/03/draft-heres-the-complete-list-of-victims-from-obamas-many-wiretaps/

So to summarise, there is no evidence that Obama ordered a wiretap of Trump towers. This is what it all comes down to.

26000 Elephants

Amerika wrote: »

I don't know what you're getting on about.

Of course you don't. Otherwise you would not have posted another long list of people Obama did not bug.

Leroy42

And BTW, the US is legally allowed to get wire taps on people. It appears that the president is actually not allowed to directly order one, but even if he knew about it that is not unlawful. It comes with being the POTUS.

So Trump 1st has to prove that a wire tap existed, which then needs to be shown to be illegal. If legal then he has opened up a massive can of worms for himself.

If illegal, then he needs to prove that Obama ordered it. And even if he did, even if, so what. Fine, send Obama to jail, send HC to jail. Send them all to jail. But it all has to be based on Obama making a decision that could ruin any possible legacy he might have on the basis that he wanted HC to win. A win that would have no effect on him either way. Now, all politicians will go a certain way for their party, but to commit an illegal act with the knowledge that if Trump won he won be found out?

That is quite a lot of "to prove"s in there. All that to get a few days distraction from the Russia story?

Harika

Leroy42 wrote: »

And BTW, the US is legally allowed to get wire taps on people. It appears that the president is actually not allowed to directly order one, but even if he knew about it that is not unlawful. It comes with being the POTUS.

So Trump 1st has to prove that a wire tap existed, which then needs to be shown to be illegal. If legal then he has opened up a massive can of worms for himself.

If illegal, then he needs to prove that Obama ordered it. And even if he did, even if, so what. Fine, send Obama to jail, send HC to jail. Send them all to jail. But it all has to be based on Obama making a decision that could ruin any possible legacy he might have on the basis that he wanted HC to win. A win that would have no effect on him either way. Now, all politicians will go a certain way for their party, but to commit an illegal act with the knowledge that if Trump won he won be found out?

That is quite a lot of "to prove"s in there. All that to get a few days distraction from the Russia story?

And this would have been ordered in a time, where a HRC win looked highly likely, only the Comey releases changed the outlook. The same Comey who now denies that Trump was wiretapped.

Christy42

Leroy42 wrote: »

And BTW, the US is legally allowed to get wire taps on people. It appears that the president is actually not allowed to directly order one, but even if he knew about it that is not unlawful. It comes with being the POTUS.

So Trump 1st has to prove that a wire tap existed, which then needs to be shown to be illegal. If legal then he has opened up a massive can of worms for himself.

If illegal, then he needs to prove that Obama ordered it. And even if he did, even if, so what. Fine, send Obama to jail, send HC to jail. Send them all to jail. But it all has to be based on Obama making a decision that could ruin any possible legacy he might have on the basis that he wanted HC to win. A win that would have no effect on him either way. Now, all politicians will go a certain way for their party, but to commit an illegal act with the knowledge that if Trump won he won be found out?

That is quite a lot of "to prove"s in there. All that to get a few days distraction from the Russia story?

Nothing will be proven. His supporters will believe it is all part of the conspiracy to keep their man down and life will go on with Obama not in jail. It will be forgotten about largely and just brought out in the already ridiculously long list of Trump's failings by Colbert and the like.

This is relatively small fry to what he has said. Sure it should sink him but until his base cares enough or the Republicans risk deposit him the farce will continue on.

demfad

Amerika wrote: »

I don't know what you're getting on about. You do understand the term "The Buck Stops Here?"

Here is the list from WikiLeaks of the NSA wire tapping victims...

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/03/draft-heres-the-complete-list-of-victims-from-obamas-many-wiretaps/

Here is the Wikilinks link.

The word 'Obama' is substituted for the words 'National Security Agency' every time they appear in your link. That list is not from Wikileaks. Stop misleading us.
The NSA are sworn to protect the US fconstitution from all enemies domestic and foreign. They are not loyal to a particular president as such as Trump is finding out.

Mr.Micro

Leroy42 wrote: »

And BTW, the US is legally allowed to get wire taps on people. It appears that the president is actually not allowed to directly order one, but even if he knew about it that is not unlawful. It comes with being the POTUS.

So Trump 1st has to prove that a wire tap existed, which then needs to be shown to be illegal. If legal then he has opened up a massive can of worms for himself.

If illegal, then he needs to prove that Obama ordered it. And even if he did, even if, so what. Fine, send Obama to jail, send HC to jail. Send them all to jail. But it all has to be based on Obama making a decision that could ruin any possible legacy he might have on the basis that he wanted HC to win. A win that would have no effect on him either way. Now, all politicians will go a certain way for their party, but to commit an illegal act with the knowledge that if Trump won he won be found out?

That is quite a lot of "to prove"s in there. All that to get a few days distraction from the Russia story?

Pure conjecture here on my part, but In the end it may prove Trump was bugged, but then the Whithouse might show Trump was involved with the Russians, a threat to national security. It's all getting rather complicated. It makes me think Trump knows he was bugged.

demfad

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Pure conjecture here on my part, but In the end it may prove Trump was bugged, but then the Whithouse might show Trump was involved with the Russians, a threat to national security. It's all getting rather complicated. It makes me think Trump knows he was bugged.

How do you think bugged Trump?
The FBI director says no wiretap existed. The Director of National Intelligence said no wiretap existed. Do you think Obama climbed in there himself and installed it?
Wiretaps can be put on foreign nationals via a Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Agency warrant. If Trump and associates were dumb enough to talk to anyone who was wiretapped then thats on them.
If thats what happenned and Breitbart had the exclusive story.....hmmm not to difficult to narrow down the leak there is it?

Trump will not go down quietly. He has the power of the POTUS. His only way to protect himself is to grab more power. Things will get a lot worse.

swampgas

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Pure conjecture here on my part, but In the end it may prove Trump was bugged, but then the Whithouse might show Trump was involved with the Russians, a threat to national security. It's all getting rather complicated. It makes me think Trump knows he was bugged.

It's entirely possible (and plausible IMO) that Trump Tower was bugged by the Russians and/or the Russian mob. There were enough people connected to Russia living there over the years to have facilitated it.

That's not to say the FBI or others weren't bugging the place as well, considering some of the dodgy people living there.

Zubeneschamali

demfad wrote: »

If Trump and associates were dumb enough to talk to anyone who was wiretapped then thats on them.

A possible scenario: Manafort, Stone and Page were under investigation for ties to Russians, and were being wiretapped. Trump talked to them, of course. These conversations would be reviewed, and then dumped if not related to the warrant.

But if Trump talked to Manafort, Stone or Page on their tapped lines about their contact with the Russians, that recording would have been saved as relevant to the warrant.

If someone in the White House has learned that there are recordings of Trump in Trump Tower talking about contact with the Russians, that would explain the freakout.

Igotadose

Now, if this is true (so far just found the one report,) it ought to get a wide distribution. All those Trumplodytes that think Travel Bans and aggressive anti-immigrant policies and abominations like V.O.I.C.E are o.k., should learn what happens to true patriots:

http://theweek.com/speedreads/684192/american-citizen-khizr-khan-reportedly-cancels-trip-canada-after-being-warned-travel-privileges-are-being-reviewed

Summary: "


Gold Star father Khizr Khan has canceled an upcoming speech in Toronto after being told that his "travel privileges are being reviewed," CTV's Rosa Hwang reports. Khan and his wife were born in Pakistan, but Khizr has been an American citizen for more than 30 years. The Khans famously accused President Trump of having "sacrificed nothing and no one" during a speech at the Democratic National Convention last year; their son died in the Iraq War in 2004."

---

Is there *anything* good coming out of this Administration? Even a stopped analog clock is right twice a day...

I suppose there's a stock market rally going on, those are good but are caused by whatever.

Leroy42

I honestly think we should stop talking about the wire tap, it is clear it is BS.

I mean, he was so upset about 'just found out' that the tweeted it at 5.30am on Saturday and since then has done nothing else? Hasn't shown the world all the evidence. He could have the Obama and by extension the DNC by the balls if he had anything.

It's nothing but deflection by a nutjob. The media are worse. They are all running around trying to be the ones to break the story. Forget it. Go back to talking about Sessions. Ask why Flynn wasn't fired as soon as they found out he lied.

Ask why he went to Mar a Lago yet again last weekend. What's that 4 times at $3m a pop. Ask has the security protocols been improved in Mar a Lago since the Japan/NK missile debacle.

Ask if Trump has any plans to repay the significant costs incurred by NY on Melania deciding to stay in NY. Ask about progress on the wall. What he he going to do about North Korea continuing missile tests.

Christy42

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

A possible scenario: Manafort, Stone and Page were under investigation for ties to Russians, and were being wiretapped. Trump talked to them, of course. These conversations would be reviewed, and then dumped if not related to the warrant.

But if Trump talked to Manafort, Stone or Page on their tapped lines about their contact with the Russians, that recording would have been saved as relevant to the warrant.

If someone in the White House has learned that there are recordings of Trump in Trump Tower talking about contact with the Russians, that would explain the freakout.

Amother possible scenario is that Trump is a serial liar and wanted to deflect from the Sessions scandals that were breaking and the next iteration of the silly travel ban.

Amerika

Leroy42 wrote: »

I honestly think we should stop talking about the wire tap, it is clear it is BS.

I mean, he was so upset about 'just found out' that the tweeted it at 5.30am on Saturday and since then has done nothing else? Hasn't shown the world all the evidence. He could have the Obama and by extension the DNC by the balls if he had anything.

It's nothing but deflection by a nutjob. The media are worse. They are all running around trying to be the ones to break the story. Forget it. Go back to talking about Sessions. Ask why Flynn wasn't fired as soon as they found out he lied.

Ask why he went to Mar a Lago yet again last weekend. What's that 4 times at $3m a pop. Ask has the security protocols been improved in Mar a Lago since the Japan/NK missile debacle.

Ask if Trump has any plans to repay the significant costs incurred by NY on Melania deciding to stay in NY. Ask about progress on the wall. What he he going to do about North Korea continuing missile tests.

Sorry, the story is not going away. Multiple news outlets have reported on a campaign by former Obama administration officials and loyalists to spread highly classified information in a bid to handicap the Trump administration.

Example…
http://freebeacon.com/national-security/former-obama-officials-loyalists-waged-campaign-oust-flynn/

The NSA pick Michael FlynnFlynn, Attorney General Jeff Sessions and White House adviser Sebastian Gorka have been the subject of multiple leaks to the media which were aimed at jeopardizing their positions in the administration.

Judicial Watch issued a Freedom of Information Act request to the CIA and DOJ, which must be legally be handled by these agencies in a timely fashion. Since there was no answer Judicial Watch has gone ahead and brought a lawsuit to unearth "any and all records regarding, concerning, or related to the investigation of retired Gen. Michael Flynn's communications with Russian Ambassador to the United States Sergey Kislyak between October 1, 2016 and the present."

"In its complaint Judicial Watch asks the court to order the agencies to search for all records responsive to its FOIA requests and demonstrate that they employed reasonable search methods; order the agencies to produce by a specific date all non-exempt records and a Vaughn index of all withheld records; and instruct the agencies to cease withholding all non-exempt records."

I had wondered how all this wire tapping got to be such as hot topic lately. Then last night I watched a report on Dan Bongino, a former Secret Service. He provided an interesting analysis. The noted there are three reasons why Trump concentrated on the wire tapping. First that Trump is lying. Second that Trump may have pressured the FBI to tell him about an investigation against him. And the third which seems to be the most plausible is that according to Bongino…

“The Secret Service does ECM sweeps, electronic counter-measures, where they go in frequently and look for listening devices, radio frequencies, all kinds of things to make sure the president or president-elect is not being, in fact, wiretapped or listened in on specific phone lines.”

“…that he had Secret Service protection and there was likely an ECM sweep done to check for bugs. The FBI’s not going to tell the Secret Service if they’re monitoring the president-elect, and if Obama or his DOJ officials wanted Trump monitored, the Secret Service probably didn’t know at all.”

How would you feel if a bug was found in your office? And since investigative powers now come under the control of Trump, I think this is about to get very interesting.

robinph

Amerika wrote: »

... the subject of multiple leaks to the media which were aimed at jeopardizing their positions in the administration.

If the contents of a leak jeopardises your position in the administration, then your position in the administration deserves to be in jeopardy.

Professor Moriarty

Amerika wrote: »

Sorry, the story is not going away. Multiple news outlets have reported on a campaign by former Obama administration officials and loyalists to spread highly classified information in a bid to handicap the Trump administration.

Example…
http://freebeacon.com/national-security/former-obama-officials-loyalists-waged-campaign-oust-flynn/

The NSA pick Michael FlynnFlynn, Attorney General Jeff Sessions and White House adviser Sebastian Gorka have been the subject of multiple leaks to the media which were aimed at jeopardizing their positions in the administration.

Judicial Watch issued a Freedom of Information Act request to the CIA and DOJ, which must be legally be handled by these agencies in a timely fashion. Since there was no answer Judicial Watch has gone ahead and brought a lawsuit to unearth "any and all records regarding, concerning, or related to the investigation of retired Gen. Michael Flynn's communications with Russian Ambassador to the United States Sergey Kislyak between October 1, 2016 and the present."

"In its complaint Judicial Watch asks the court to order the agencies to search for all records responsive to its FOIA requests and demonstrate that they employed reasonable search methods; order the agencies to produce by a specific date all non-exempt records and a Vaughn index of all withheld records; and instruct the agencies to cease withholding all non-exempt records."

I had wondered how all this wire tapping got to be such as hot topic lately. Then last night I watched a report on Dan Bongino, a former Secret Service. He provided an interesting analysis. The noted there are three reasons why Trump concentrated on the wire tapping. First that Trump is lying. Second that Trump may have pressured the FBI to tell him about an investigation against him. And the third which seems to be the most plausible is that according to Bongino…

“The Secret Service does ECM sweeps, electronic counter-measures, where they go in frequently and look for listening devices, radio frequencies, all kinds of things to make sure the president or president-elect is not being, in fact, wiretapped or listened in on specific phone lines.”

“…that he had Secret Service protection and there was likely an ECM sweep done to check for bugs. The FBI’s not going to tell the Secret Service if they’re monitoring the president-elect, and if Obama or his DOJ officials wanted Trump monitored, the Secret Service probably didn’t know at all.”

How would you feel if a bug was found in your office? And since investigative powers now come under the control of Trump, I think this is about to get very interesting.

Apart from quoting some unknown right wing website claiming to be a champion of the truth by making ludicrous nonsense demands, none of the above means anything at all. Nothing. There is no point at all to your post nor to your selective quoting of Bongino.

Amerika

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Apart from quoting some unknown right wing website claiming to be a champion of the truth by making ludicrous nonsense demands, none of the above means anything at all. Nothing. There is no point at all to your post nor to your selective quoting of Bongino.

A Freedom of Information request and subsequent lawsuit means nothing?

Leroy42

Amerika wrote: »

How would you feel if a bug was found in your office? And since investigative powers now come under the control of Trump, I think this is about to get very interesting.

I would feel terrible, as I have done nothing and am involved in nothing. I would also ask the people in charge what actually happened to see what was going on. Was it me or someone connected to me. Was it due to possible outside interference that I wasn't aware of. Had my business associates been spying on me to undermine my ability to make deals.

What I wouldn't do is make up a load of BS, especially when I had direct access, and power over, all the individuals. What I wouldn't do is claim that my country is basically a backwater corrupt cesspool, with government agencies running amok over the law in a bid to keep democracy down. What I wouldn't do is accuse the previous President of illegal acts without a shred of evidence. What I wouldn't do is call the heads of the FBI & CIA liars to everyone that would listen.

What I would do is act professionally instead of allowing my childish tantrums to dictate the policy. I would, in essence, act like a President. I would get to the bottom of it before allowing all and sundry have a chance to build their defence and possibly destroy any evidence. I would undertake to find out what happened utilising my AG and security advisor. Then, when I was happy that I had sufficient evidence, I would charge those involved within the full rigours of the law to show that our democracy is not to be played with.

How would you feel knowing that you have a President that holds everything about the county in contempt. He has little time for the FBI/CIA. He detests the media unless the are writing nice things about him. Has basically told the military that have failed for the last 70 years. Inner cities are no better than warzones. The country is overrun with illegals and terrorists. Anyone availing of subsided healthcare is a pariah.

But number 1, above all that, is that he has been treated unfairly. Despite the widespread carnage across the country, his number 1 priority seems to revolve around taking on those he feels are against him. So wait for your immigration ban, apparently it was needed to be rushed through last time but could wait a week this time so he could enjoy good rating. Forget the continued issues that North Korea are creating, Arnold is doing badly on the apprentice.

Professor Moriarty

Amerika wrote: »

A Freedom of Information request and subsequent lawsuit means nothing?

Not until it succeeds.

KingBrian2

This whole bugging sounds like what Charles J Haughey did in the 80's. All shady works going on here. Interesting to see what other news stories is thrown down from the commentariat worthy of of all us denizens to take note of.

BabyCheeses

Amerika wrote: »

Sorry, the story is not going away. Multiple news outlets have reported on a campaign by former Obama administration officials and loyalists to spread highly classified information in a bid to handicap the Trump administration.

Example…
http://freebeacon.com/national-security/former-obama-officials-loyalists-waged-campaign-oust-flynn/

The NSA pick Michael FlynnFlynn, Attorney General Jeff Sessions and White House adviser Sebastian Gorka have been the subject of multiple leaks to the media which were aimed at jeopardizing their positions in the administration.

Judicial Watch issued a Freedom of Information Act request to the CIA and DOJ, which must be legally be handled by these agencies in a timely fashion. Since there was no answer Judicial Watch has gone ahead and brought a lawsuit to unearth "any and all records regarding, concerning, or related to the investigation of retired Gen. Michael Flynn's communications with Russian Ambassador to the United States Sergey Kislyak between October 1, 2016 and the present."

"In its complaint Judicial Watch asks the court to order the agencies to search for all records responsive to its FOIA requests and demonstrate that they employed reasonable search methods; order the agencies to produce by a specific date all non-exempt records and a Vaughn index of all withheld records; and instruct the agencies to cease withholding all non-exempt records."

I had wondered how all this wire tapping got to be such as hot topic lately. Then last night I watched a report on Dan Bongino, a former Secret Service. He provided an interesting analysis. The noted there are three reasons why Trump concentrated on the wire tapping. First that Trump is lying. Second that Trump may have pressured the FBI to tell him about an investigation against him. And the third which seems to be the most plausible is that according to Bongino…

“The Secret Service does ECM sweeps, electronic counter-measures, where they go in frequently and look for listening devices, radio frequencies, all kinds of things to make sure the president or president-elect is not being, in fact, wiretapped or listened in on specific phone lines.”

“…that he had Secret Service protection and there was likely an ECM sweep done to check for bugs. The FBI’s not going to tell the Secret Service if they’re monitoring the president-elect, and if Obama or his DOJ officials wanted Trump monitored, the Secret Service probably didn’t know at all.”

How would you feel if a bug was found in your office? And since investigative powers now come under the control of Trump, I think this is about to get very interesting.

So what you are saying is that there is still no proof, only theories on how it could have been done. Ok.

26000 Elephants

Amerika wrote: »

A Freedom of Information request and subsequent lawsuit means nothing?

Do you ever research any of the things you post?

Have a look at Judicial Watches illustrious record on snopes. They have started some outlandish BS stories that have been universally panned.

A quick google of "judicial watch sues..." will return a list of crackpot, vexatious cases.