President 'The Donald' Trump and Surprising Consequences - Mod warning in OP

weisses

oscarBravo wrote: »

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/03/07/the-trump-white-house-is-changing-its-tune-on-wire-tapping-and-hoping-you-dont-notice/?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_trumpwikileaks-0701pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.3cea00d99429



Same old story with Trump: "Ignore what he said, here's what we've decided he meant." By which standard, a chatbot could be President - and would probably be a better one.

I found the whole "congres deals with it" a get out of jail card, I believe the people around DT quickly realized the potential consequences so they came up with the plan to involve congress so they didn't need to answer the questions.

If DT was worried about these taps he should have called the head of the FBI and other relevant officials to the white house to express his worries and it would have been dealt with

Leroy42

wes wrote: »

Yeah, it unfortunate, that the US political system allowed someone like Trump to get in, and a lot of people are going to suffer, because of it. My sympathy lies with the majority that didn't vote for him.

wes wrote: »

This is true, politicans lie and Trump voters, picked the guy, who lied throught his teeth dozens of times, putting every other politican to shame. His lies were so damned blatant, but they chose to vote for him in anyways. Sorry, no sympathy. People need to understand that they get what they vote for. You can't blame Obama forever, like Trump is trying to do, with even more blatant and insane lies that he is throwing out there.

Instead they harped on about liberal elites, and scorned experts, and chose to ignore all the people who tried to warn them. Its sad that so many people have seemingly lost any sense of reality, but at the end of the day, they choose to get there information from Fox News and Breitbart, and work themselves into a insane frenzy.

They chose this, and now they reap what they have sown. I am simply holding to the same standard as everyone else, and excuses offered for these people, simply ring hollow to me. They made there choice, and they need own it.

Sadly, the majority who didn't want this crap, will suffer as well.

Wanderer78 wrote: »

I disagree with this, politicians lie and flip flop on things as soon as they get into power, even before so. Never underestimate the power of vested interests, people rarely get what the deserve or require

But in reality Trump is doing exactly what he said he would do.

There is no surprises in any of what is happening. He said he would increase spending on the military, repeal Obamacare, introduce a muslim ban, build a wall, put manners on Mexico and cooperate more with Russia. he also said he would drain the swamp, which appears to actually mean anybody who doesn't agree with his agenda, but he never stated what it meant.

These were all well known lines. We are claiming that voters were sold a pup when in fact they were anything but.
The majority (in terms of the EC which is what matters) voted for this. They value military over healthcare, they value immigration controls over education. They value sticking it to the liberal lefties rather than hold those in power to even basic standards.

That is on no-one else but the voters. Those that voted for Trump and those that abstained. The clear majority of people were either on his side or ambivalent.

If it was just the US I would say tough on them, let them reap what they sowed, but unfortunately US actions have a direct impact on us all.

demfad

oscarBravo wrote: »

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/03/07/the-trump-white-house-is-changing-its-tune-on-wire-tapping-and-hoping-you-dont-notice/?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_trumpwikileaks-0701pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.3cea00d99429



Same old story with Trump: "Ignore what he said, here's what we've decided he meant." By which standard, a chatbot could be President - and would probably be a better one.

The reason for Spicer's spin could be more telling in this case. Trump made a direct accusation and assertion about wiretapping.
If he was indeed wiretapped or recorded as part of an ongoing criminal investigation (or FISA) then he has interfered with that investigation and has committed an impeachable offence.
If such an investigation existed it will come out as part of the larger investigations into Trump/Russia where Trumps tweets may come under scrutiny as obstructing justice.

26000 Elephants

Leroy42 wrote: »

That is on no-one else but the voters. Those that voted for Trump and those that abstained. The clear majority of people were either on his side or ambivalent.

And on those who continue to apologise for him, and worse, berate the efforts of those who call it for what it is.

26000 Elephants

demfad wrote: »

If such an investigation existed it will come out as part of the larger investigations into Trump/Russia where Trumps tweets may come under scrutiny as obstructing justice.

This is a good piece ( from James Henry) that builds on some of the topics you raised previously.

Wilbur Ross - Russian connections.

InTheTrees

26000 Elephants wrote: »

All they seem to have done so far is to take the word "Affordable" out of the title. And replace it with... America. Because MAGA, right?

That should tell the people a lot about what is going to happen!

But right now, its seems to be just Obamacare 2.0, with added meanness.

RyanCare. An absolute disaster. Basically a huge tax cut for the wealthy paid for by taking away healthcare from the poor and elderly.

Almost petty meanness. It takes away help for the needy just because it can.

No wonder they kept it secret.

Amerika

ObamaCare is about to tank with our without republicans doing anything. The GOP plan is little more than ObamaCare in another form. I’m not happy will the new plan as are a number of other republicans. The minor changes and continued entitlements will just take us a little longer to go bankrupt than ObamaCare. I think it will be a tough sell getting it through Congress.

demfad

26000 Elephants wrote: »

This is a good piece ( from James Henry) that builds on some of the topics you raised previously.

Wilbur Ross - Russian connections.

Thanks for that. great article.

That article helps explain the Russian 'angle' to the background to this election.
Trump and his associates have literally built their empires on the flight of Russian money from the former USSR.
Oil/natural resources, real estate, banking: It's no coincidence that Trumps buddies are all in these Russian focused industries of wealth creation, laundering and storage.

The corrupt end of the USSR was hit with the capitalist wand, flirted with democracy and reverted to the Kleptocracy we see today. The west was in such a state of advancing corruption that these oligarchs were able to easily marry in or at least raise a new scheister American elite.
Imagine having boss of criminal bosses (Putin friendly) Semion Mogilevich's enterprises all dealing in 'Business' areas: Stock market (fraud); real estate, banking scams, business acquisitions etc. etc.

And Putin controlling almost all of the Russian side, the access to sources of wealth, the banking and monitoring the laundering. Ultimately controlling the Americans operating in this Russo-American criminal/business zone.
Cyprus bank is a microcosm for this activity.

If you take the US cabinet as having 2 characters:
A: The dominant ultra religious conservative side: Pence, DeVos, Bannon and many many others put there by Rebekah Mercer.
B: And the Trump Kleptocracy side. Trump, Ross, Tillerson.

I had originally though that the Mercers, Bannon etc had used Trumpa s a vessel to get power. That still holds true: but there is a bigger connection and that is the Mercer/Bannon clear plot to replicate the US election/Brexit in other countries around the world. ie a change of world order from liberalism to patriarcal nationalism.
In thsi light there are many many connections from this set to Russia and Putin and the propaganda machine : Breitbart/Cambridge and Kremlin/Wikileaks are clearly working together.

Leroy42

Amerika wrote: »

ObamaCare is about to tank with our without republicans doing anything. The GOP plan is little more than ObamaCare in another form. I’m not happy will the new plan as are a number of other republicans. The minor changes and continued entitlements will just take us a little longer to go bankrupt than ObamaCare. I think it will be a tough sell getting it through Congress.

Why is it about to tank?
What do you think should be done to Obamacare to correct the problems?

And since their are only minor changes that you say will only delay the problem don't you count this as an unacceptable failure on Trumps part? This was a core message in his election campaign, repeal and replace, yet you seem to be saying that it is nothing of the sort.

Zubeneschamali

Amerika wrote: »

ObamaCare is about to tank with our without republicans doing anything.

The problem for Republicans is clearly that it is not going to tank fast enough, since the new bill will tank faster.

Amerika

Leroy42 wrote: »

Why is it about to tank?
What do you think should be done to Obamacare to correct the problems?

And since their are only minor changes that you say will only delay the problem don't you count this as an unacceptable failure on Trumps part? This was a core message in his election campaign, repeal and replace, yet you seem to be saying that it is nothing of the sort.

The reason is because providers of insurance are pulling out of ObamaCare left and right, and the trend would only continue. Since forcing insurance providers to offer coverage under ObamaCare isn't an option, it will tank.

And yes, in the present form, the health care replacement is a failure on Trumps part.

Amerika

weisses wrote: »

I found the whole "congres deals with it" a get out of jail card, I believe the people around DT quickly realized the potential consequences so they came up with the plan to involve congress so they didn't need to answer the questions.

If DT was worried about these taps he should have called the head of the FBI and other relevant officials to the white house to express his worries and it would have been dealt with

This whole ordeal has the makings of a great intrigue story. And the plot seems to be unfolding before our very eyes.

Consider the following...

A siting president and his heiress apparent make charges of Russian hacking and collusion with the opposition campaign, based on surveillance they were privy to. But that opposition candidate becomes president despite all expert predictions to the contrary. The new evil and devilishly cleaver president lets the other party work their outrage to fever pitch until momentum leaves them no chance of retreat. That new president then picks the moment when news of chaos within his administration starts to resonate and makes a very public charge of governmental wire tapping of his campaign during the election, from intelligence he now is privy to. And independent investigation ensues. The possibility of criminal liability is now considered and the ousted party needs a fall guy/gal to pin responsibility on if the investigation doesn’t turn out in their favor. But who? Suddenly an extraordinary bit of news comes out. An attorney general, recently out of office and who met secretly with the husband of the heir apparent in her private jet during the election and while an active investigation was going on, calls for "marching," "blood," and "death." Huh? Why do it and why do it now one might ask? Could it be to play the race card in advance of things going south and to already set the tone that her rights are being assailed, trampled on and even rolled back?

Curiouser and curiouser.

Water John

Ah, it must have been Michelle.

BabyCheeses

Amerika wrote: »

ObamaCare is about to tank with our without republicans doing anything. The GOP plan is little more than ObamaCare in another form. I’m not happy will the new plan as are a number of other republicans. The minor changes and continued entitlements will just take us a little longer to go bankrupt than ObamaCare. I think it will be a tough sell getting it through Congress.

I felt light headed reading his.

You do know that this new plan is from republicans right?

Water John

Ryan says it's great. Trump says it's great. They are taking ownership of it.
Lets see can they carry the various wings of GOP with them.

Amerika

BabyCheeses wrote: »

I felt light headed reading his.

You do know that this new plan is from republicans right?

Yes I do. When republicans screw things up they need to be called out, also.

Leroy42

Amerika wrote: »

The reason is because providers of insurance are pulling out of ObamaCare left and right, and the trend would only continue. Since forcing insurance providers to offer coverage under ObamaCare isn't an option, it will tank.

And yes, in the present form, the health care replacement is a failure on Trumps part.

Providers would only be pulling out if the prices they are allowed to charge are not profitable. Therefore the only real way the any new deal can work if is the premiums go up, or the people with the highest costs to the companies are forced out.

Both go directly against what Trump said he would deliver and both leave the american public worse off than before.

26000 Elephants

To be fair to the GOP, you cant have decent healthcare AND reasonable pay packs for the healthcare CEO's. /s

https://twitter.com/Khanoisseur/status/839599530135838720

robinph

Amerika wrote: »

...

Russian hacking and collusion with the opposition campaign, based on surveillance they were privy to.

...

Curiouser and curiouser.

Think you may have forgotten the first part of your story by the time you got to the end of writing it.

Which is the bigliest crime there? Hacking and collusion with the Russians, or someone else knowing that there was hacking and collusion with the Russians due to wiretaps on Russians?

listermint

robinph wrote: »

Think you may have forgotten the first part of your story by the time you got to the end of writing it.

Which is the bigliest crime there? Hacking and collusion with the Russians, or someone else knowing that there was hacking and collusion with the Russians due to wiretaps on Russians?

It seems most republicans are in a tail spin about what to think.

They are not getting enough Spicer to construct a commentary for them so instead say nothing or revert to last year's commentary.

The whole saga is an embarrassing farce on American History.

And Europe better start taking decisive and defensive action on this Russian tactic to tear the union apart because it's evidently clear that's what it's up to. Even if there are those home birds that cry fowl about 'western media' etc etc. This is a digital war front.

Zubeneschamali

Kitsunegari wrote: »

It's way too conservative to get through Congress.

Many Republicans in Congress are condemning it for being too liberal.

Peregrinus

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Many Republicans in Congress are condemning it for being too liberal.

Not "many", so far as I have seen.

But it needn't take many; the Republican majority in the Senate is only two.

Quin_Dub

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Many Republicans in Congress are condemning it for being too liberal.

Peregrinus wrote: »

Not "many", so far as I have seen.

But it needn't take many; the Republican majority in the Senate is only two.

Rand Paul was one , but also external group like the Koch Brothers etc. have said it doesn't go far enough

For Forks Sake

Speaking of the stupid wall, in order to - and I'll use a Trumpism here- "secure our borders"...funding same may require cuts to agencies that actually do protect American borders. You could not make this nonsense up.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/to-fund-border-wall-trump-administration-weighs-cuts-to-coast-guard-airport-security/2017/03/07

demfad

https://www.propublica.org/article/meet-hundreds-of-officials-trump-has-quietly-installed-across-government

Good article documenting 400 members of Trumps so called 'beach head teams'. These are people quietly installed in the Federal Government as Trumps eyes and ears and dont have to be vetted by the Senate.
The include Conspiracy theorists, Bannonites from Breitbart news, Trump campaign loyalists of all ages and experience and many lobbyists particularly in areas where they lobby.
This anti-draining the swamp was faciliated by Trump's weakening of Obama's ethics rules around lobbyists in Government.

jooksavage

I'm surprised he stopped at a border wall with Mexico. Why not a wall that goes around the whole perimeter of the USA? And don't stop at 10 foot - build it high enough to block planes full of refugees, intercontinental ballistic missiles and any freeloading migrant birds.

Zubeneschamali

Peregrinus wrote: »

Not "many", so far as I have seen.

The Freedom Caucus did - 29 members.

Hank Scorpio

Speaking of security, right before the election the department of Justice refused to prosecute an Iraqi insurgent because of partisan Politics.

https://streamable.com/knjn7

Turned down by an attorney at the justice department because it would make HRC look bad and confirm what Trump was saying was accurate.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/03/08/lawmakers-probe-claim-doj-aided-iraqi-terror-suspect-days-before-november-election.html

Leroy42

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

Speaking of security, right before the election the department of Justice refused to prosecute an Iraqi insurgent because of partisan Politics.

https://streamable.com/knjn7

Turned down by an attorney at the justice department because it would make HRC look bad and confirm what Trump was saying was accurate.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/03/08/lawmakers-probe-claim-doj-aided-iraqi-terror-suspect-days-before-november-election.html

Where is the evidence that it was done on the behest of HC and to stop him would help Trump?

Seems as if there was some disagreement over whether he should be allowed in based on a lack of definitive documentation. A call was made. Could be right, could be wrong. But you have directly linked HC, and a conspiracy to effect the election. You will need more than conjecture to make that stand up

And isn't Iraq being taken out on the new EO, so now Trump is saying that he will simply exacerbate the problem?

Hank Scorpio

Leroy42 wrote: »

Where is the evidence that it was done on the behest of HC and to stop him would help Trump?

Seems as if there was some disagreement over whether he should be allowed in based on a lack of definitive documentation. A call was made. Could be right, could be wrong. But you have directly linked HC, and a conspiracy to effect the election. You will need more than conjecture to make that stand up

And isn't Iraq being taken out on the new EO, so now Trump is saying that he will simply exacerbate the problem?

It's under investigation now so we'll get the truth.

A more recent example would be Schumer getting a visa for a sex offender who molested a child when he got over.

http://nypost.com/2017/03/03/indian-athlete-arrested-for-sex-abuse-after-schumer-gillibrand-got-him-visa/