President 'The Donald' Trump and Surprising Consequences - Mod warning in OP

Hank Scorpio

Leroy42 wrote: »

Right, you you admit its BS, served up just to try and deflect.

There are clear issues with Trump and Russia, the continuing lies coming from Flynn, Sessions and Trump himself give the idea some legs.

That is vastly different than just making up stuff. Instead of blaming some conspiracy with HC and the election, why not blame god, or the fairies, or Mexicans or anything since they all have the same standing.

I can point to a series of mistruths by those around him and a clear strategy of lying by Donald to call into question anything he has to say and particularly given the increasing close ties with Russia it is right to ask a question. That and the fact that US democracy itself might be at stake.

Your story is based on nothing more than trying to deflect

What you fail to see is this Russian narrative was pushed since last summer, a story which was originally planted in the press by the Clinton campaign, Wikileaks verifies this angle in the emails. It's gotten so utterly desperate they jumped on Sessions the day after Trump gave his senate speech to deflect how well it was received. The FBI cleared Flynn of any wrongdoing, he talked to multiple ambassadors as the incoming national security adviser. Past administrations have done the same thing. Sessions attack was taken totally out of context.

After all the hullaballoo over the past 6 months, all the investigations, what's the most likely scenario - Trump is a mastermind who's somehow evaded the Democrats, the Republicans, the "Establishment", the media and all the Intel agencies, all who are frothing at the teeth to nail him, or that there just isn't anything there?

swampgas

Leroy42 wrote: »

Really? You are going to bring up a tweet to point out fake news?

Trump tweeted about the crowd sizes - fake
Trump tweeted Obama ordering wire tapping on him - fake
Trump tweeted about Obama birth cert - Fake

And Trump tweeted about Obama releasing terrorists from Guantanamo when almost all those released were freed by his predecessor, GWB. Even now Spicer is trying to spin his way out of it, claiming that GWB only released prisoners when forced by court order, which is just flat out untrue.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/under-the-radar/2017/03/trump-spicer-guantanamo-lawyers-235848

Hank Scorpio

Leroy42 wrote: »

Really? You are going to bring up a tweet to point out fake news?

Trump tweeted about the crowd sizes - fake
Trump tweeted Obama ordering wire tapping on him - fake
Trump tweeted about Obama birth cert - Fake

Clearly I'm bringing it up to point out the "Muh Russia" crap that's been going on for the past 6 months in the media.

Leroy42

Yes, but you seem to accept the lying from Trump but cannot seem to countenence even questions from the other side.

You posted up a story with no backup whatsoever. you made the claim "Turned down by an attorney at the justice department because it would make HRC look bad and confirm what Trump was saying was accurate." yet have nothing to even begin to start to make any of that true. Nothing.

This is the thing that really gets me. HC was seen as untrustworthy, corrupt and in it for herself.

Yet Trump has done all of that already in the 1st 50 days. He has continually lied, used his position to make personal gains (and try to help his daughters brand).

None of the charges thrown at HC were ever proven, and whilst I agree totally that there was more that a whiff of her, surely the same must be said of Trump. How can you, and other supporters, have such a hypocritical attitude?

A Little Pony

Deleted User wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

If I was Trump do as much revolutionary things as possible and out of the ordinary things. Leave a legacy in which people talk about you among the likes of Caesar and Alexander in hundreds of years from now. Build the wall.

Or perhaps try to run the country in a normal fashion and improve the lives of his citizens, instead of whatever insanity you are prattling on about.

He has already done that by promising to create millions of jobs. What else do you want? He needs to leave a legacy, perhaps him being President is enough.

Hank Scorpio

Leroy42 wrote: »

Yes, but you seem to accept the lying from Trump but cannot seem to countenence even questions from the other side.

You posted up a story with no backup whatsoever. you made the claim "Turned down by an attorney at the justice department because it would make HRC look bad and confirm what Trump was saying was accurate." yet have nothing to even begin to start to make any of that true. Nothing.

This is the thing that really gets me. HC was seen as untrustworthy, corrupt and in it for herself.

Yet Trump has done all of that already in the 1st 50 days. He has continually lied, used his position to make personal gains (and try to help his daughters brand).

None of the charges thrown at HC were ever proven, and whilst I agree totally that there was more that a whiff of her, surely the same must be said of Trump. How can you, and other supporters, have such a hypocritical attitude?

That's what Fox news reported.

Christy42

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

That's what Fox news reported.

I really can't see that line in the fox article you posted.

Leroy42

And if I posted something terrible about Trump with nothing else but "Thats what CNN reported" what would you say?

Hank Scorpio

Christy42 wrote: »

I really can't see that line in the fox article you posted.

It's in the associated video. I posted the steamable link to cut to the part that it's mentioned.

https://streamable.com/knjn7

Hank Scorpio

Leroy42 wrote: »

And if I posted something terrible about Trump with nothing else but "Thats what CNN reported" what would you say?

I probably wouldn't even notice the post, posting bad things about Trump is all you people do here.

Chips Lovell

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

I probably wouldn't even notice the post, posting bad things about Trump is all you people do here.

Play the ball, not the man Hank.

Thank you

Christy42

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

It's in the associated video. I posted the steamable link to cut to the part that it's mentioned.

https://streamable.com/knjn7

At work so can't watch it. Is that just an opinion then since they don't seem to think it worthy of putting into print. I am going to need more to take this as fact.

In other news, is there a chance Republicans feel under pressure enough to pass this to have something to defend. I mean they control the presidency, the house and the Senate so not passing would be inexcusable. However they are also stuck as any move to the right will destroy their base's medical care in a lot of places and roundly destroyed but any move to left will be decried as a betrayal by their base who voted for something else. Not doing anything does not seem to be an option given how hard they ran on getting rid of Obamacare.

I mean they have proven they can't do better so maybe just insist their way is better in spite of all evidence is the best way forward for them?

Hank Scorpio

Christy42 wrote: »

At work so can't watch it. Is that just an opinion then since they don't seem to think it worthy of putting into print. I am going to need more to take this as fact.

Wasn't an opinion, it's what they were told by the Texas prosecutors when they asked why the case was dropped by outside interference from the DOJ.

I don't take it as fact either, they'll be an investigation.

Christy42

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

Wasn't an opinion, it's what they were told by the Texas prosecutors when they asked why the case was dropped by outside interference from the DOJ.

I don't take it as fact either, they'll be an investigation.

Let us know when there is more than an accusation then.

Hank Scorpio

Live Wikileaks conference starting now, if anyone is interested .

https://www.periscope.tv/WikiLeaks/1ZkKzEqeDMZxv

Zubeneschamali

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

Live Wikileaks conference starting now, if anyone is interested .

I don't speak Russian.

Igotadose

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

Clearly I'm bringing it up to point out the "Muh Russia" crap that's been going on for the past 6 months in the media.

How long would you expect such an investigation to take? There has only been investigation by the intelligence services, who unequivocally found Russian interference in the Presidential election.

There's yet to be any Congressional investigation into the Russian behaviors.

The media is doing its job - keeping an important story on the front pages. This Administration is encouraging that through its behavior (lie, weasel, contradict each other, selective amnesia,...)

Time will tell; what if, in 5 years after election 2020, Trump the (hopefully) ex-President is found guilty of treason and sent to prison? That's a perfectly reasonable outcome.

Frankly, the obsession here to get answers RIGHT NOW really is an attempt to derail the investigation and stifle the discussion. These things take time. Look how long the Benghazi investigation took, to not find anything.

Leroy42

There is certainly no doubt that the raft of measures brought in under GWB, ostensibly to deal with 9/11, have given much greater power to the IA in the states and they have used their power position in the world to reach out to pretty much anywhere.

Even away from terrorism, any US company, operating anywhere in the world, is subject to US laws on the operations in the country on certain things. It is a massive power grab by the US.

The Tuesday dump cannot come as a surprise to anybody.

Hank Scorpio

Igotadose wrote: »

How long would you expect such an investigation to take? There has only been investigation by the intelligence services, who unequivocally found Russian interference in the Presidential election.

There's yet to be any Congressional investigation into the Russian behaviors.

The media is doing its job - keeping an important story on the front pages. This Administration is encouraging that through its behavior (lie, weasel, contradict each other, selective amnesia,...)

Time will tell; what if, in 5 years after election 2020, Trump the (hopefully) ex-President is found guilty of treason and sent to prison? That's a perfectly reasonable outcome.

Frankly, the obsession here to get answers RIGHT NOW really is an attempt to derail the investigation and stifle the discussion. These things take time. Look how long the Benghazi investigation took, to not find anything.

My opinion is that it's a coordinated effort to delegitimize the administration, which can hold a fairly strong argument due to the leaking from what appears to be within the intelligence agencies, FISA court orders, slanderous TV interviews and tweets/stories, attacks on his cabinet like Sessions, constant flow of news stories hinting at collusion and straight up accusations from people within the opposition campaign directly accusing Trump of being a Russian surrogate. The term "put up or shut up" seems apt.

That said I agree with you, there needs to be a proper investigation, there has already been investigations where no evidence of collusion has been found. What there hasn't been is any public press conferences in an official manner to denounce the involvement of Russia with the Trump campaign during the election, just attack after attack without any substantial evidence ( Look at the Podesta tweet I posted a few posts back ).

If and when the current investigation meets an end one way or the other, my hope is that Comey or whoever else is in that capacity comes out officially and makes an announcement that ends the madness. He didn't so far even though according him and other intelligence officers, as recently as yesterday, have said there is no evidence. This constant barrage of attacks by the media and Democrats will not stop until an announcement is made, if innocent it's extremely unfair, and if true, whatever happened to having actual solid evidence of collusion to substantiate such vitriol bombardment.

Leroy42

But again Hank, Trump and the GOP seemed perfectly fine with leaks and using leaked information when it suited them but now it seems it a conspiracy to delegitimize the administration.

Trump said he loved Wikileaks and asked Russia to find the missing e-mails. One can only assume that he is comfortable with leaking if the information is legit. He seems to have changed his tune since he got into power, now leaks are terrible things and a threat to democracy!

You can't have it both ways (btw I am of the opinion that wikileaks etc are good once the information is legit. We are always better off knowing than not)

Igotadose

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

This constant barrage of attacks by the media and Democrats will not stop until an announcement is made, if innocent it's extremely unfair, and if true, whatever happened to having actual solid evidence of collusion to substantiate such vitriol bombardment.

Correct - and not even then (cf: Hilary Clinton the right-wing media whipping on Clintons to this day.) Time will tell.

As for extremely unfair, it's politics. Fair isn't in the equation when it comes to elected officials. Goes with the territory. Trump ought to get used to it, if he wanted a job that'd ensure adulation, being POTUS was the absolute worst choice he could've made. Look how nasty Ireland's gotten about water charges, consider where that is on the grand spectrum of things compared to, say, whether the POTUS is in bed with the Russians. Yet, people here feel passionately and even get violent when it comes to whether they should get their water for free or pay for it.

Politics. Rough elbows and all that.

Zubeneschamali

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

whatever happened to having actual solid evidence of collusion to substantiate such vitriol bombardment.

Trump slandered Obama and Hillary non-stop for years - it works!

Hank Scorpio

Leroy42 wrote: »

But again Hank, Trump and the GOP seemed perfectly fine with leaks and using leaked information when it suited them but now it seems it a conspiracy to delegitimize the administration.

Trump said he loved Wikileaks and asked Russia to find the missing e-mails. One can only assume that he is comfortable with leaking if the information is legit. He seems to have changed his tune since he got into power, now leaks are terrible things and a threat to democracy!

You can't have it both ways (btw I am of the opinion that wikileaks etc are good once the information is legit. We are always better off knowing than not)

The DNC got hacked because they secured their network like idiots, They didn't value network security at all, nobody can deny that. HRC had a insecure private server, and John Podesta fell for a phishing scheme most 12 year old's wouldn't on the back of his security staff telling him it was legitimate. They can only blame themselves. Trump was laughing when he said that about Russia, he was joking at a rally, context seems totally lost. He shouldn't have said it but it's not an admittance to anything.

The leaks against Trump are coming within his own intelligence agencies, it's a different situation. He's not at fault.

Christy42

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

The DNC got hacked because they secured their network like idiots, They didn't value network security at all, nobody can deny that. HRC had a insecure private server, and John Podesta fell for a phishing scheme most 12 year old's wouldn't on the back of his security staff telling him it was legitimate. They can only blame themselves. Trump was laughing when he said that about Russia, he was joking at a rally, context seems totally lost. He shouldn't have said it but it's not an admittance to anything.

The leaks against Trump are coming within his own intelligence agencies, it's a different situation. He's not at fault.

Their coming from the whitehouse staff a lot of the time. Largely because there has been chaos in the whitehouse since he entered.

So if the Umm 300 pound new Jersey hacker had used more sophisticated techniques you would have been against the wikileaks releases? In fact are you against the CIA leaks? Afaik there is no evidence they fell for a basic scam.

Hank Scorpio

Christy42 wrote: »

Their coming from the whitehouse staff a lot of the time. Largely because there has been chaos in the whitehouse since he entered.

So if the Umm 300 pound new Jersey hacker had used more sophisticated techniques you would have been against the wikileaks releases? In fact are you against the CIA leaks? Afaik there is no evidence they fell for a basic scam.

Most of the damaging leaks came from the Intel agencies, NYT's and other reported that, even went as far as to say wiretapped communications.

I'm not against the Wikileaks releases, my point is they let the door open due to negligence/arrogance, in that regard I have zero sympathy for them.

A whistleblower leaked the CIA stuff, it wasn't a hack. The server the data was on, wasn't connected to the internet.

Yourself isit

demfad wrote: »

Here is the Wikilinks link.

The word 'Obama' is substituted for the words 'National Security Agency' every time they appear in your link. That list is not from Wikileaks. Stop misleading us.
The NSA are sworn to protect the US fconstitution from all enemies domestic and foreign. They are not loyal to a particular president as such as Trump is finding out.

Are you saying that president is not informed when the US spies on its allies or its friends? Of course he is. Obama loved to spy and to kill with drones.

Professor Moriarty

Yourself isit wrote:

Are you saying that president is not informed when the US spies on its allies or its friends? Of course he is. Obama loved to spy and to kill with drones.

And the smell of napalm in the morning. But enough about Obama.

B_Wayne

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

Most of the damaging leaks came from the Intel agencies, NYT's and other reported that, even went as far as to say wiretapped communications.

I'm not against the Wikileaks releases, my point is they let the door open due to negligence/arrogance, in that regard I have zero sympathy for them.

A whistleblower leaked the CIA stuff, it wasn't a hack. The server the data was on, wasn't connected to the internet.

Deep throat leaked his information, Snowden leaked his information. Manning leaked her information. All were important and the latter two suffered significantly for their actions. I have absolutely no problem with leaks. You also don't seem to ever raise any issue with the POTUS regularly just making up rubbish to avoid the consequences of often disturbing leaks.

Suspicous meetings with Russia, his response: Accuse the former president of wiretapping him with no basis. This on the other hand seems to rarely worry his most ardent supporters, in fact they'll claim it to be true.

MightyMandarin

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-state-department-saudi-arabia-arms-sales-yemen-air-strikes-barack-obama-block-weapons-a7620821.html

So Donald's pal Rex Tillerson approved a $1.15bn sale of tanks and weapons to the Saudi's. What was that about 'funding Saudi Arabia = Funding ISIS'? I thought Hillary was the only one in cahoots with them?

Oh, and before the usual suspects chime in that it was 'Obama's deal'

Last year, Mr Obama's administration approved a $1.15bn (£921m) deal for the sale of tanks and armoured vehicles to Saudi Arabia.

The deal was opposed by more than 60 members of the House of Representatives, who signed a letter calling for Mr Obama to delay.

However, in his final months in office, Mr Obama decided to halt the current deal on precision-guided military technology.

Looks like the same old crap coming from the Trump Admin. yet again.

26000 Elephants

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

Eh, no different than all the proof and unnamed sources that's been posted in the NYT's and WaPo about Trump and Russia.

We will see what Trumps associate Firtash gives up to the feds when he gets to the US.

But in other news....I know you are a great fan of Saudi Arabia... So it seems is Donald.

Trump agrees to Saudi arms deal blocked by Obama

edit: sorry, didnt notice MightyManderin in there first....