President 'The Donald' Trump and Surprising Consequences - Mod warning in OP

MadYaker

Anayone listening to the house intellegence comittee? Intersting stuff.

Schiff connecting dots between Page, Manafort, Rusneft, Ukraine, GOP convention, Gordon, Sessions and Wikileaks.

Call me Al

MadYaker wrote: »

Anayone listening to the house intellegence comittee? Intersting stuff.

Schiff connecting dots between Page, Manafort, Rusneft, Ukraine, GOP convention, Gordon, Sessions and Wikileaks.

Yes. He's being very direct and specific in his comments. It will be very interesting to see how Comey will respond, or if these questions are unanswerable at this time due to ongoing investigations.

Call me Al

And there you go... Comey says it's pretty much all classified so we have to expect a lot of "no comment" but not for anyone to be drawing any conclusions...

Nody

Manic Moran wrote: »

Both, really. I have already posted laments on the procurement process we have in place. And we've been involved in low-scale, high-tempo operations for the last few years, which are quite expensive. The equipment is old, it needs upgrading, and we do need to come up with a cheaper way of doing things.

More boots on the ground and less flashy planes and "future" projects ala GWB failure missile defence dome... But that would mean less toys for the boys to play with and higher losses which never works these days as American politicians have totted up the whole "high technology warfare without casualty" line for to long.

Harika

Call me Al wrote: »

And there you go... Comey says it's pretty much all classified so we have to expect a lot of "no comment" but not for anyone to be drawing any conclusions...

He said quite interesting things like
https://twitter.com/KeithOlbermann/status/843838841177935875

This phrasing confirms there were links between the Trump campaign and the Russian government. No "if."

Or that what everyone expected that the wiretap stuff was completely made up nonsense by the inhabitant of the, now former leader of the free world, seat: Trump

Manic Moran

Harika wrote: »

He said quite interesting things like
https://twitter.com/KeithOlbermann/status/843838841177935875


Or that what everyone expected that the wiretap stuff was completely made up nonsense by the inhabitant of the, now former leader of the free world, seat: Trump

Mr Olberman's understanding of syntax is incorrect. Comey has not publicly confirmed anything with the statement. "any" does not mean 'the' or 'extant'.

More boots on the ground

Entirely agreed, and it's not a position which has no support in the military.

and less flashy planes and "future" projects ala GWB failure missile defence dome...

Hmmm.. why do you say the missile defense dome is a failure? And why do you say it's GWB's? It's been going for a while. The US now has an ABM facility in Romania, which is rather annoying the Russians, it's in service in Alaska, California, and two weeks ago entered service in Korea. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-39188826

That's not counting the naval-based system, which is in service with both the US and Japanese navies.

higher losses which never works these days as American politicians have totted up the whole "high technology warfare without casualty" line for to long.

Also agreed. But for that, blame the politicians.

jooksavage

Watching Comey and Rogers in front of the House Committee. Adam Schiff is pushing on questions about Roger Stone. Looks like Stone is going to get grilled at some point. That would be interesting - it's unlikely they'll get anything truthful from that sociopath but it'll certainly showcase the kind of two-bit slimeballs that Trump fraternizes with - Stone is pretty extreme! It would also be quite amusing see Stone's own boasting landing him in front of the Committe.

Leroy42

But for the FBI to come out a state that not only are they investigating Russia's effort to influence the campaign but also the nature of any links... this after two months of the administration and over 4 months since he won!

Surely, if there was nothing there they would have been able to wrap the investigation of any links pretty quickly? Whatever way you spin this, this looks very poor for Trump.

A US president is being actively investigated by his own intelligence agencies for possible links with Russia? You would be laughed out of Hollywood for pitching such a crazy idea and yet here we are.

Trump, and his surrogates, will of course use the usual ways to distract and belittle it all, but the fact remains, A US president is being actively investigated by his own intelligence agencies for possible links with Russia.

Wow.

jooksavage

Leroy42 wrote: »

Trump, and his surrogates, will of course use the usual ways to distract and belittle it all, but the fact remains, A US president is being actively investigated by his own intelligence agencies for possible links with Russia.

Wow.

I had assumed this was the case but to hear Comey say it loud, yeah, that does seem like a bit of a milestone. Interesting times (in the bad, Chinese curse sense)

BoatMad

Manic Moran wrote: »

It's not a matter of solving anything. Even if we don't sent a single sortie more over Syria, the aircraft and vehicles are still broken and need to be fixed. We've started re-focusing on new threats. You may have noticed, for example, that our friends in Eastern Europe have recently started becoming quite antsy, and the US military has just started basing forces in Poland.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/14/europe/poland-us-troops-nato-welcome/
The opposition they're facing isn't ISIS.



Honestly, they want both. They disapprove of the reduction in soft power, but they still want their equipment to be capable against a conventional threat who doesn't care about soft power. Opponents like Russia, China and DPRK.

The US military is more capable then its nearest 5 adversaries put together . Right wing militarists always bleat on about how " weak " the US military is . Remember when people thought 1 million men under Sadams control was a serious threat to the US invasion, when in fact they tolled over them in 9 days


Utter nonsense that the US military needs more money. its pure gold plating

Frank Bullitt

So thats the NSA and the FBI saying the wiretap claim is rubbish.

Will Trump continue to claim it though?

robinph

Gintonious wrote: »

So thats the NSA and the FBI saying the wiretap claim is rubbish.

Will Trump continue to claim it though?

He'll probably not even acknowledge that today happened after todays early morning tweets, and just scream this line repeatedly from his throne tomorrow:

"A lot of it is just dead wrong," the FBI director says of a lot of recent reporting based on leaks.

Itssoeasy

Gintonious wrote: »

So thats the NSA and the FBI saying the wiretap claim is rubbish.

Will Trump continue to claim it though?

I mean how will sean spicer give his press briefing and still say with a straight face that donald trump believes there was wiretapping ?

Akrasia

The logic of the US military begging for more money is up there with a millionaire complaining that his Bentleys are expensive, especially because he has a fleet of 400 custom fitted Bentleys each requiring different parts and a team of mechanics.

They spend a ridiculous amount of money on overpriced, hard to maintain machines and when they break down they demand more money to repair and replace them.

When people say that a Bentley is a luxury that they don't need, they say they need the Bentley so that the Mercedes owners next door don't disrespect them.

America have 13000 military aircradt. Russia and China have about 3000 each.

You don't need a standing fleet of aircraft 4 times larger than any potential rival, especially if it's bankrupting you to keep them on standby.

Lux23

He just tweeted about a new grandchild on the way...boo we want to see some mad stuff!!

seamus

Akrasia wrote: »

You don't need a standing fleet of aircraft 4 times larger than any potential rival, especially if it's bankrupting you to keep them on standby.

I think what's ironic is the talk that the US military needs to keep itself massively overstocked in order to protect the US from terrorism and engage in activity overseas.

What they don't see is that this is in fact a matter of putting the cart before the horse. Having a large military and using it to engage overseas is what causes the terrorism to target the US in the first place.

If they came up with a 10-20 year plan which involved a strategic withdrawal from as many countries as possible while simultaneously reducing the military budget and reducing the size of the military through retirement/obsolecence to about half of what it is now, they would still be the largest armed forces in the world, but save a shedload of money for worthwhile programmes and reduce the terrorist threat against the US.

Of course the vested interests need military spending to keep going up in order to line their pockets and the conservatives are too closed-minded about using bombs to solve all problems. Nobody in the US is brave enough to do the obvious and stop interfering in the world stage as a route to making America safer.

Water John

Democratic Party really laying out the multiple links between Trump people and Putin. Setting it out and looks damning when you put it all back to back.
So many of them who have publicly opposed Russian sanctions.

Quigley saying new meeting last April coming to light which included Trump.

Frank Bullitt

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I mean how will sean spicer give his press briefing and still say with a straight face that donald trump believes there was wiretapping ?

With what the FBI just confirmed, its also now confirmed that Trump completely made up the claims, not that it is much of a surprise to us.

rosser44

Water John wrote: »

Democratic Party really laying out the multiple links between Trump people and Putin. Setting it out and looks damning when you put it all back to back.
So many of them who have publicly opposed Russian sanctions.

Quigley saying new meeting last April coming to light which included Trump.

It really is fascinating stuff. Its gas to see the Dem members pushing to get answers and linking the compromised people on team Trump with the Russians and then Turner takes the floor and its all "nothing to see here" as he tries to muddy the waters of the investigation...

Nody

Manic Moran wrote: »

Hmmm.. why do you say the missile defense dome is a failure? And why do you say it's GWB's? It's been going for a while. The US now has an ABM facility in Romania, which is rather annoying the Russians, it's in service in Alaska, California, and two weeks ago entered service in Korea. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-39188826

I'm talking about this one which failed to hit missiles coming in on a known trajectory from start to finish before any decoys etc. would be included. There are plenty other similar systems you can add to the list of failures insisted on.

Also agreed. But for that, blame the politicians.

Yes and this has lead to the current cowardliness of American people who are afraid of everything everywhere all the time. From accepting the atrocious patriot act to throwing money at the military for no reason to only wanting to do air war / cruise missile strikes for at best short term gain and very much long term loss. America will still pay for the mistakes of today in 50 years time because it's leaders (both parties) were to big cowards to make the hard decisions and it's people not willing to look beyond their own short term future and hold their leaders accountable for their actions.

Igotadose

rosser44 wrote: »

It really is fascinating stuff. Its gas to see the Dem members pushing to get answers and linking the compromised people on team Trump with the Russians and then Turner takes the floor and its all "nothing to see here" as he tries to muddy the waters of the investigation...

Actually I'm impressed by Comey's caution when answering, even with the somewhat grandstanding/rehashing by the rep from Ca. Talking about Felix Sater, Preet Bharahra, Trump's bankruptcies, Trademarks registered in Russia.... A bit tedious frankly, get back to the investigation not so much Trump slamming, Comey's not taking the bait. Hard to believe Comey wasn't aware Trump ran Miss Universe in Moscow, though.

The good bit is it all is now permanently in the Congressional Record, woo.

jooksavage

rosser44 wrote: »

It really is fascinating stuff. Its gas to see the Dem members pushing to get answers and linking the compromised people on team Trump with the Russians and then Turner takes the floor and its all "nothing to see here" as he tries to muddy the waters of the investigation...

Pretty compelling stuff alright. Swalwell is on a roll at the moment. Comey is giving it the "no comment" treatment but there were a few things there I hadn't heard before - presumably there's a lot more to come out of this.

It's pretty disgusting to see the Republicans focusing on the leaks rather than the substance of the allegations. The worst was Rep Turner who worried the FBI investigation had the potential to damage America.

rosser44

Igotadose wrote: »

Hard to believe Comey wasn't aware Trump ran Miss Universe in Moscow, though.

The good bit is it all is now permanently in the Congressional Record, woo.

Comey is being very careful not to confirm anything which may feed into the ongoing investigation. The questions about prominent US citizens being under surveillance when they go to Russia were telling too when he no comments them also

rosser44

jooksavage wrote: »

. The worst was Rep Turner who worried the FBI investigation had the potential to damage America.

Turner is the worst kind of partisan politician. He'd see the Russian flag fly over the White house just to f8ck over the Dems.

Edit: He's the only GOP member I've seen so far in the hearing thats actively combative with Comey and Rogers

Igotadose

rosser44 wrote: »

Turner is the worst kind of partisan politician. He'd see the Russian flag fly over the White house just to f8ck over the Dems.

Edit: He's the only GOP member I've seen so far in the hearing thats actively combative with Comey and Rogers

Odious, indeed. Took a swing at his colleagues whining about being the only one to read all 2000 pages of info at the CIA (yeah we believe that.)

Though I do like Rep. Himes debunking Trump's tweets in real time, not like Trump's acolytes will care though.

rosser44

PutinLeaks time!!!

Sam Russell

seamus wrote: »

Of course the vested interests need military spending to keep going up in order to line their pockets and the conservatives are too closed-minded about using bombs to solve all problems. Nobody in the US is brave enough to do the obvious and stop interfering in the world stage as a route to making America safer.

..... as a route to making (some) Americans richer.

BoatMad

Igotadose wrote: »

Odious, indeed. Took a swing at his colleagues whining about being the only one to read all 2000 pages of info at the CIA (yeah we believe that.)

Though I do like Rep. Himes debunking Trump's tweets in real time, not like Trump's acolytes will care though.

surprise , surprise, Trumps claims are without foundation , the Russians meddled on Trumps side and there is an ongoing investigation in His teams collusion with the Russians


we must be seriously in uncharted water here , incredible stuff, if you stand back for a minute . The fallout is likely to be enormous

Water John

Dems put it on the record very well.
The live intersection of Trump's tweets via the actual statements of Comey and Rodgers during the hearing was, slam dunk.

Amerika

Water John wrote: »

Dems put it on the record very well.
The live intersection of Trump's tweets via the actual statements of Comey and Rodgers during the hearing was, slam dunk.

What slam dunk? What do we really know so far? That apparently Flynn’s contact with the Russians was picked up by ‘incidental collection.’ And nowhere has it been put forth that anything he did was criminal activity or a potential threat to the United States, and therefore should not have been listened to, kept, or shared. And if the sharing was done regarding Flynn, then one can only be left to believe it was done in a matter to indicate questionable surveillance had been conducted and the result of that surveillance leaked to the media to make the Trump administration look bad. Nixon would be proud. There definitely was criminal activity afoot as it was illegal to leak this information to the media. So it seems the investigation of who criminally leaked the information comes down to approximately 20 people mentioned by Comey, former Attorney General Loretta Lynch, former acting Attorney General Sally Yates, and apparently Barack Obama’s administration, although Comey refuses to confirm it. Bring out the lie detectors.