President 'The Donald' Trump and Surprising Consequences - Mod warning in OP

Water John

Lets not confuse my point. DT tried to twist what Comey and Rodgers said at the hearing. Those tweets were then read back to Comey and Rodgers who stated clearly that was not what they had said earlier in the day.
That's 'slam dunk' of DT trying to mislead on what Comey and Rodgers had just said.

listermint

Amerika wrote: »

What slam dunk? What do we really know so far? That apparently Flynn’s contact with the Russians was picked up by ‘incidental collection.’ And nowhere has it been put forth that anything he did was criminal activity or a potential threat to the United States, and therefore should not have been listened to, kept, or shared. And if the sharing was done regarding Flynn, then one can only be left to believe it was done in a matter to indicate questionable surveillance had been conducted and the result of that surveillance leaked to the media to make the Trump administration look bad. Nixon would be proud. There definitely was criminal activity afoot as it was illegal to leak this information to the media. So it seems the investigation of who criminally leaked the information comes down to approximately 20 people mentioned by Comey, former Attorney General Loretta Lynch, former acting Attorney General Sally Yates, and apparently Barack Obama’s administration, although Comey refuses to confirm it. Bring out the lie detectors.

Absolutely quality transparent deflection.

In large paragraph form might i add

rosser44

Amerika wrote: »

What slam dunk? What do we really know so far? That apparently Flynn’s contact with the Russians was picked up by ‘incidental collection.’ And nowhere has it been put forth that anything he did was criminal activity or a potential threat to the United States, and therefore should not have been listened to, kept, or shared. And if the sharing was done regarding Flynn, then one can only be left to believe it was done in a matter to indicate questionable surveillance had been conducted and the result of that surveillance leaked to the media to make the Trump administration look bad. Nixon would be proud. There definitely was criminal activity afoot as it was illegal to leak this information to the media. So it seems the investigation of who criminally leaked the information comes down to approximately 20 people mentioned by Comey, former Attorney General Loretta Lynch, former acting Attorney General Sally Yates, and apparently Barack Obama’s administration, although Comey refuses to confirm it. Bring out the lie detectors.

Img/ insert comical Ali meme /Img

Water John

As good as Sean Spicer saying today that Manfort had slight connection with the Trump candidacy.

'very limited role for a limited period of time' Sean Spicer. WTF.

26000 Elephants

Amerika wrote: »

... Barack Obama ...

... is at this moment Euphoric.

26000 Elephants

Water John wrote: »

As good as Sean Spicer saying today that Manfort had slight connection with the Trump candidacy.

'very limited role for a limited period of time' Sean Spicer. WTF.

Another Trump guy gets thrown under the bus... :-)

Spicer outdid himself with today's head scratcher:

there's an assumption, that because there's an investigation, it must be about something"

Water John

The latest today is that he putting a listener into every state dept, to check for loyalty of staff.
We are now in Stazi territory.

jooksavage

Water John wrote: »

As good as Sean Spicer saying today that Manfort had slight connection with the Trump candidacy.

'very limited role for a limited period of time' Sean Spicer. WTF.

Quite a Stalinistic approach to the facts there from Spicer! Sounds like Manafort is on his way to becoming an "unperson". Wait until Spicer himself falls out of favour and gets cropped out of history - they'll Photoshop all his appearances to retrospectively turn him into a paunchy, dispirited-looking tree.

ECO_Mental

Water John wrote: »

The latest today is that he putting a listener into every state dept, to check for loyalty of staff.
We are now in Stazi territory.

Yeah read that yesterday, this really is crazy stuff. Apparently Matis the Sec of Def! even has one of these political officers in all his meetings......

I think all these Trumpers need to take a step back from themselves and try and just look at what is happening. I know it's hard to go against your team but the s**t that's going on is absolutely crazy.

Water John

The stamp of Bannon. Dangerous svengali.

PopePalpatine

Water John wrote: »

The latest today is that he putting a listener into every state dept, to check for loyalty of staff.
We are now in Stazi territory.

I think Steve "The Oldest Guy on 4chan" Bannon would prefer DINA territory, anything from German history is too obvious.

BoatMad

Water John wrote: »

The stamp of Bannon. Dangerous svengali.

absolutely, this is the real danger, the zombie lunatic running around the halls of the asylum with all the keys.

remember Bannon wants to break Government to show that Government is broken

My image if him is running around a " hit the mole " game , shouting " Die Washington die "

whats needed in the US, is to remember that "for evil to prosper, Good men just have to do nothing " . Time to stand up against tyranny

Leroy42

Amerika wrote: »

What slam dunk? What do we really know so far? That apparently Flynn’s contact with the Russians was picked up by ‘incidental collection.’ And nowhere has it been put forth that anything he did was criminal activity or a potential threat to the United States, and therefore should not have been listened to, kept, or shared. And if the sharing was done regarding Flynn, then one can only be left to believe it was done in a matter to indicate questionable surveillance had been conducted and the result of that surveillance leaked to the media to make the Trump administration look bad. Nixon would be proud. There definitely was criminal activity afoot as it was illegal to leak this information to the media. So it seems the investigation of who criminally leaked the information comes down to approximately 20 people mentioned by Comey, former Attorney General Loretta Lynch, former acting Attorney General Sally Yates, and apparently Barack Obama’s administration, although Comey refuses to confirm it. Bring out the lie detectors.

Wow Amerika, just Wow.

The POTUS is being actively investigated for links to Russia, for links to Russian interference in a US election and was directly called out for lying about a previous POTUS wiretapping him.

And all you have to say is who leaked all of this?

And since it was Trump that tweeting the now totally debunked claims himself, and then allowed everyone to waste time chasing them, do you not think it shameful that the POTUS is now a confirmed liar?

So we have Flynn lying to the VPOTUS, the AG lying to a congressional hearing and Trump lying to the american people and you see nothing at all wrong with any of that.

And that is nothing to do with Russian claims, that is all down to Trump and his team.

At what point to you think that Trump should simply call all his people up in front of the committee to settle this once and for all so that he can concentrate on MAGA? At what point do you think enough damage is being caused to the standing of the US both internally and externally.

For Forks Sake

Leroy42 wrote: »

Wow Amerika, just Wow.

The POTUS is being actively investigated for links to Russia, for links to Russian interference in a US election and was directly called out for lying about a previous POTUS wiretapping him.

And all you have to say is who leaked all of this?

And since it was Trump that tweeting the now totally debunked claims himself, and then allowed everyone to waste time chasing them, do you not think it shameful that the POTUS is now a confirmed liar?

So we have Flynn lying to the VPOTUS, the AG lying to a congressional hearing and Trump lying to the american people and you see nothing at all wrong with any of that.

And that is nothing to do with Russian claims, that is all down to Trump and his team.

At what point to you think that Trump should simply call all his people up in front of the committee to settle this once and for all so that he can concentrate on MAGA? At what point do you think enough damage is being caused to the standing of the US both internally and externally.

https://twitter.com/apoliticaldfw/status/843895342047334400

Manic Moran

Akrasia wrote: »

America have 13000 military aircradt. Russia and China have about 3000 each.

You don't need a standing fleet of aircraft 4 times larger than any potential rival, especially if it's bankrupting you to keep them on standby.

You may wish to revisit those figures. https://d1fmezig7cekam.cloudfront.net/VPP/Global/Flight/Airline%20Business/AB%20home/Edit/WorldAirForces2015.pdf

China and Russia together have more combat airplanes than the US does. The US numerical advantage comes in training and transport aircraft.

For better or worse, the US has global commitments and is a guarantor of security, by treaty, from Korea to Iceland, Australia to Poland. This means that it can't just square off against, say, the Russians, as it has to be able to step in, for example, if the Korean War goes hot at the same time. The best airplane in the world can only be in one place at one time. And it's not as if the military budget doesn't help for soft power either. They aren't German carriers and Canadian helicopters which show up within a few days of a disaster in places like Indonesia or Japan. It's not what they're for, obviously, but they do have a peacetime use.

You can certainly argue the merits of these treaties, and if the US should just leave those other countries to their own devices, but as long as the US has them, it needs to have the capability to honor them.

Nody wrote: »

I'm talking about this one which failed to hit missiles coming in on a known trajectory from start to finish before any decoys etc. would be included. There are plenty other similar systems you can add to the list of failures insisted on.

You may wish to do a little more research on this one as well. Given the first tests were in the Clinton years, it wasn't GWB's program, whoever started it. Further, Obama authorised the expansion of that missile system in 2013 (Five years after the article linked to above), which is currently in service. Launch sites are in Alaska and California, with radar sites in Japan. What he cancelled was Bush's plan to deploy the system to Poland, for political reasons. A smaller system was instead sent to Romania. It is true that the GMD system currently has a success rate of about 50%. On the other hand, it's also the best ICBM defense system anywhere in the world, and it's in operational service.

BoatMad

Manic Moran wrote: »

You may wish to revisit those figures. https://d1fmezig7cekam.cloudfront.net/VPP/Global/Flight/Airline%20Business/AB%20home/Edit/WorldAirForces2015.pdf

Have a gawk at page 9 , USA dominates 2:1 in all forms of aircraft , often ( in the case of tankers way way buying its nearest competitors )

China and Russia together have more combat airplanes than the US does. The US numerical advantage comes in training and transport aircraft.

The quality of US air combat aircraft is far superior to russias as has been demonstrated in Syria and elsewhere , numbers isnt the only metric, most of the Russia fleet is very old and outdated, as is sections of the Chinese

Command and control is also hugely behind the US

For better or worse, the US has global commitments and is a guarantor of security, by treaty, from Korea to Iceland, Australia to Poland.

perhaps the US might like to step back from such " guarantor" , the world might sleep easier if it does


This means that it can't just square off against, say, the Russians, as it has to be able to step in, for example, if the Korean War goes hot at the same time. The best airplane in the world can only be in one place at one time. And it's not as if the military budget doesn't help for soft power either.

They aren't German carriers and Canadian helicopters which show up within a few days of a disaster in places like Indonesia or Japan. It's not what they're for, obviously, but they do have a peacetime use.

pity they didnt show up in the third world mess that was New Orleans

The European , Aussies etc are quite capable of looking after themselves if push came to shove, sure it might be third time lucky against the Russians in the next conflict

You can certainly argue the merits of these treaties, and if the US should just leave those other countries to their own devices, but as long as the US has them, it needs to have the capability to honor them.

Many of these commitments are not treaty based , they are there as a result of conflicts that the US inserted itself into or come under the " spheres of influence " doctrine

Inquitus

Things just seem to go from bad to worse for dear old Donald, 58% disapprove 27% approve, in the latest Gallup poll. His proposed budget was spectacularly poor and Mulvany did a terrible job advocating it. Trumpcare may well be dead on arrival in the senate, it seems impossible he can square the circle between the Tea Party line and the more moderate GOP line, all the while he spends large amounts of time on the golf course and keeps getting caught out when he tries to deny, the picture of him posing with his golf glove on at the weekend meaning his important VA meetings without the VA Secretary seemed to have given way to 18 holes.

Not to mention his "Wire tapping" claim were completely debunked by Comey today and notification given that at least one member of his inner circle is being investigated for ties to Russia, even though the GOP seem more worried about who leaked this info than the fact that someone may have been committing treason.....

Who knows what the rest of the week will bring, but this shít show is definitely going off the rails.

Professor Moriarty

Trump has hit a new low in approval ratings. Just 37% approve of the job he's doing.

Looking forward to the pinch point where the Republicans begin to think about midterm elections and the electoral cost of throwing Trump overboard versus sticking by him. Trump won't go quietly and will make a huge stink if dumped. However, if they keep him he'll just carry on behaving like the buffoon he is and tweeting even madder stuff. All the Dems need to do right now is to appear reasonable as Trump implodes and the Republicans turn on each other like rats in a sinking ship.

BoatMad

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Trump has hit a new low in approval ratings. Just 37% approve of the job he's doing.

Looking forward to the pinch point where the Republicans begin to think about midterm elections and the electoral cost of throwing Trump overboard versus sticking by him. Trump won't go quietly and will make a huge stink if dumped. However, if they keep him he'll just carry on behaving like the buffoon he is and tweeting even madder stuff. All the Dems need to do right now is to appear reasonable as Trump implodes and the Republicans turn on each other like rats in a sinking ship.

He already being thrown over board

AHCA is not from Trumps hand, in fact Trump calls it Ryancare.

Congress has no intention of allocating 25bn for a wall , or going him billions for infrastructure , and be accused of dramatically raising the deficit

Cuts in organisations , and the trashing of medical insurance, will allow the GOP to introduce tax cuts for the wealthy and screw Trumps electoral base

Id give it 12 months and Trump and the GOP will be on opposite sides

( good article on the same issues in the Sunday Times )

Professor Moriarty

BoatMad wrote: »

He already being thrown over board

AHCA is not from Trumps hand, in fact Trump calls it Ryancare.

Congress has no intention of allocating 25bn for a wall , or going him billions for infrastructure , and be accused of dramatically raising the deficit

Cuts in organisations , and the trashing of medical insurance, will allow the GOP to introduce tax cuts for the wealthy and screw Trumps electoral base

Id give it 12 months and Trump and the GOP will be on opposite sides

( good article on the same issues in the Sunday Times )

Trump and the GOP on opposite sides would be goldust for the Dems.

listermint

BoatMad wrote: »

He already being thrown over board

AHCA is not from Trumps hand, in fact Trump calls it Ryancare.

Congress has no intention of allocating 25bn for a wall , or going him billions for infrastructure , and be accused of dramatically raising the deficit

Cuts in organisations , and the trashing of medical insurance, will allow the GOP to introduce tax cuts for the wealthy and screw Trumps electoral base

Id give it 12 months and Trump and the GOP will be on opposite sides

( good article on the same issues in the Sunday Times )

Ryan wants to associate it with Trump as best he can otherwise it wouldn't have a distinctly trumpesque name of the health bill

Water John

Democrat Heck, was putting that out at the hearing today, saying the Dems were not about removing the Reps from the Presidency.

Leroy42

Am I reading this right, did Comey confirm that not only was there an investigation into Trump and possible Russian ties but that the investigation had actually begun back in July 2016?

Why did he mention the review of HC e-mails but stay schtum about Trump?

Comey seemed to anticipate that this would cause some concern so added that they were different, since one was already closed.

Now since he says that the Russia investigation would not end for quite some time one can only deduce that the HC was already closed, in which case why did he not state that clearly in his letter?

Has an election ever had to be rerun as this one looks like it was interfered with all over the place.

BoatMad

listermint wrote: »

Ryan wants to associate it with Trump as best he can otherwise it wouldn't have a distinctly trumpesque name of the health bill

oh sure Ryan was to disassociate from the cluster fu&k the AHCA is as does Trump.

BoatMad

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Trump and the GOP on opposite sides would be goldust for the Dems.

yes, I I suspect that , the senate will go to the Democrats and the House majority will be severely dented if not equally over turned in the Midterms

Trump will then be disassociated by both the GOP and the Dems

at least he'll be left to tweet in peace in a corner of the Oval office

Leroy42

I have always understood of the Lame Duck President that relates to a second term POTUS in the last year or two of eight.

There is no ability to rerun so neither side really care about helping them get anything done.

But has there ever been a Lame Duck President in the 1st term?

I cannot see the GOP wanting to get involved in any impeachment of Trump (and since they hold the majorities it would have to be them) but rather they may simply push him to one side and let Pence, or even the House, run things.

Is that possible, and if so is there anything that Trump could actually do about it?

Professor Moriarty

BoatMad wrote: »

yes, I I suspect that , the senate will go to the Democrats and the House majority will be severely dented if not equally over turned in the Midterms

Trump will then be disassociated by both the GOP and the Dems

at least he'll be left to tweet in peace in a corner of the Oval office

Until impeachment or resignation.

Professor Moriarty

Leroy42 wrote: »

I have always understood of the Lame Duck President that relates to a second term POTUS in the last year or two of eight.

There is no ability to rerun so neither side really care about helping them get anything done.

But has there ever been a Lame Duck President in the 1st term?

I cannot see the GOP wanting to get involved in any impeachment of Trump (and since they hold the majorities it would have to be them) but rather they may simply push him to one side and let Pence, or even the House, run things.

Is that possible, and if so is there anything that Trump could actually do about it?

Once the Intel services are finished with Trump, the GOP will have no choice but to support impeachment.

Water John

Leroy, that's why I still think he will retire on 'health' grounds.


Carter because of circumstances esp Iran hostage situation could be termed lame duck and did not run for a second term in 1980, TMK.

BoatMad

Leroy42 wrote: »

I have always understood of the Lame Duck President that relates to a second term POTUS in the last year or two of eight.

There is no ability to rerun so neither side really care about helping them get anything done.

But has there ever been a Lame Duck President in the 1st term?

I cannot see the GOP wanting to get involved in any impeachment of Trump (and since they hold the majorities it would have to be them) but rather they may simply push him to one side and let Pence, or even the House, run things.

Is that possible, and if so is there anything that Trump could actually do about it?

Obama was essentially a lame duck once the House was lost in the midterms in his first term ( 111 congress) , where GOP controlled the House and Dems the senate , until that time , he opposed an enormous amount off legislation , being viewed as one of the most productive congresses of recent history

after the midterms he has essentially a lame duck president as it it unusual for a president to have so much upset in the house in the mid terms