President 'The Donald' Trump and Surprising Consequences - Mod warning in OP

26000 Elephants

Count Dooku wrote: »

Do you mean that Manafort worked with Putin to make sure that Hillary would lose to Obama in 2008 and then would lose to Trump in 2016?

Read the "... to directly help Putin outside of Russia including the USA" bit again.

I dont think he was limited to US of A. So while 2008 was unlikely, 2016 seems almost certain.

Count Dooku

26000 Elephants wrote: »

Read the "... to directly help Putin outside of Russia including the USA" bit again.

I dont think he was limited to US of A. So while 2008 was unlikely, 2016 seems almost certain.

Podesta is linked with Putin even more. But nobody cries about him owning 75,000 shares in company linked with Russian defence industry

Billy86

Count Dooku wrote: »

Podesta is linked with Putin even more. But nobody cries about him owning 75,000 shares in company linked with Russian defence industry

Question, why do you think so many members of Trump's team (including Trump himself) repeatedly and adamantly lied about their connections and contact made with Russia, both before and after the election?

26000 Elephants

Count Dooku wrote: »

Podesta is linked with Putin even more. But nobody cries about him owning 75,000 shares in company linked with Russian defence industry

There was a post earlier about deliberate misinformation. Please read it again.

There is now irrefutable evidence, approved by federal judge, that Trumps team were talking to 'foreign agents" that were under surveillance by the Intelligence services of the US.

The noose is tightening.

BabyCheeses

Leroy42 wrote: »

So what are you saying? That Trump is right to handover control of the democracy that is the US to its biggest threat on the basis that too many liberals want to take away your guns/give people equal rights?

That you are actually happy to let a foreign country take control of the US because gays n stuff?

Think of all the soldiers that have died, and are continuing to die, for the US, and Trump and people like you are happy to just hand it over because you think people are getting a bit uppidy!

That is really quite incredible.

Are you surprised? A major part of the election was based on nothing more than a hatred of liberals. Some people used to be the top of the food chain and now that is being destroyed. They would see the country burn down if it meant they could rule the ashes.

Billy86

BabyCheeses wrote: »

Are you surprised? A major part of the election was based on nothing more than a hatred of liberals. Some people used to be the top of the food chain and now that is being destroyed. They would see the country burn down if it meant they could rule the ashes.

Ah Varys, an 'liberal elitist' if ever there was one!

Professor Moriarty

BabyCheeses wrote: »

Are you surprised? A major part of the election was based on nothing more than a hatred of liberals. Some people used to be the top of the food chain and now that is being destroyed. They would see the country burn down if it meant they could rule the ashes[B][/B].

Great line.

Yourself isit

Leroy42 wrote: »

So what are you saying? That Trump is right to handover control of the democracy that is the US to its biggest threat on the basis that too many liberals want to take away your guns/give people equal rights?

That you are actually happy to let a foreign country take control of the US because gays n stuff?

Think of all the soldiers that have died, and are continuing to die, for the US, and Trump and people like you are happy to just hand it over because you think people are getting a bit uppidy!

That is really quite incredible.

This is insane nonsense. Russia is not a threat to the US. (The US is a threat to most of the world, however). They are not at war. They are not even at cold war.

You guys sound exactly like 50's mcarthyites.

MadYaker

Yourself isit wrote: »

This is insane nonsense. Russia is not a threat to the US. (The US is a threat to most of the world, however). They are not at war. They are not even at cold war.

You guys sound exactly like 50's mcarthyites.

They've been trying to influence US elections yet they aren't a threat?

InTheTrees

Yourself isit wrote: »

This is insane nonsense. Russia is not a threat to the US.

It looks like russia is an active threat. Its fairly clear now from what the director of the FBI testified that the Russians actively interfered in the election.
It is now up to the three different investigations to determine just how much interference took place and how much the trump campaign was involved.

jooksavage

Yourself isit wrote: »

This is insane nonsense. Russia is not a threat to the US. (The US is a threat to most of the world, however). They are not at war. They are not even at cold war.

4000 US troops recently deployed to Poland. What are they doing? They're not there for the cut-price skiing or the delightful baroque architecture of Warsaw.

Igotadose

Yourself isit wrote: »

This is insane nonsense. Russia is not a threat to the US. (The US is a threat to most of the world, however). They are not at war. They are not even at cold war.

You guys sound exactly like 50's mcarthyites.

So the little green men are on holiday in Ukraine? Enjoying swimming in the black sea?

And, uhh... what's going on in Syria? What're the Russians doing there? Exploring the archaeological sites?

listermint

Yourself isit wrote: »

This is insane nonsense. Russia is not a threat to the US. (The US is a threat to most of the world, however). They are not at war. They are not even at cold war.

You guys sound exactly like 50's mcarthyites.

Watching too much RT it seems.

Russia is an active and present threat to the US and the EU. They have been acting and engaged in a planned campaign of cyber terrorism from around 2005 until today. In fact they have produced published documentation on the subject.

Their goal is to have an online attack at a capacity of 4 to 1 in relation to boots on the ground. Actively engaged in undermining government's via social media and obviously hacking for information.

If you think for one second they did not undermine the Ukraine via these channels you are off your head. The Ukraine was a test bed for this in full swing . Minimalist boots on the ground but sowing seas of anti Kiev sentiments in the East via social media channels .

They are highly dangerous and the EU is right to have a comprehensive policy of actively defending against this.

What i really don't get is that there are those that are cheer leading Russia in its efforts as if they would enjoy living under this ridiculous dangerous dictator Putin as if he is some hero to the working man. It's beyond belief.

Harika

Yourself isit wrote: »

This is insane nonsense. Russia is not a threat to the US. (The US is a threat to most of the world, however). They are not at war. They are not even at cold war.

You guys sound exactly like 50's mcarthyites.

Let's look at the facts, yes Russia won't invade the US or start a nuclear war any time soon. But Russia already invaded and annexed parts of another country. What makes the NATO countries, especially of the former Soviet Union very nervous. To show strength, Nato holds exercises and trainings in those countries (like someone asked about the 4000 soldiers in Poland) to disencourage any action there from Russia. Trump promised to weaken Nato and restart the relationship with Putin as he did nothing wrong in his eyes, that's why Russia had interest in him being elected, contrary to Hillary who is a hardliner.
So far Trump just blurbed out that Germany has to pay US money for Nato, what is absolute nonsense, what was already shown to him. And his secret plan to defeat ISIS is the exact plan of Obama (You know the one plan that wasn't working) I think this is driven from Mathis, who is basically the best qualified person in Trumps staff, what he is also showing.

Chips Lovell

Pressing the reset button. I've deleted a couple of trolling posts and a number of posts quoting them.

As the forum charter says:

High standards of debate and quality posts / threads are required. Repeated one liner, low quality style posts will result in a ban. Threads (and posts) that are not based on serious and legitimate Political discussion will be deleted without warning.

Zubeneschamali

Leroy42 wrote: »

I don't blame Russia if they tried to influence the election, makes perfect sense. I would blame Trump if he accepted it in order to help him win.

The scandal is not that the Russians interfered in the election: the intelligence services already stated that as fact, and Obama introduced sanctions on the Russians for it.

The scandal is that the Trump campaign knew this in advance and co-ordinated with the Russians to win, treasonously promising to soften US foreign policy towards Russia in exchange.

Mr.Micro

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

The scandal is not that the Russians interfered in the election: the intelligence services already stated that as fact, and Obama introduced sanctions on the Russians for it.

The scandal is that the Trump campaign knew this in advance and co-ordinated with the Russians to win, treasonously promising to soften US foreign policy towards Russia in exchange.

I think it would be extremely tough to prove that involvement by the Trump camp with the Russians would amount to treason? I just think most of this will be brushed under the carpet. It's getting more difficult to see who the bad guys and the good guys are. Nobody is even sure whose side the FBI or CIA are on, but just promoting their own interests ahead of democracy. It's all become very murky. Truth no longer matters.

Kitsunegari

Mr.Micro wrote: »

I think it would be extremely tough to prove that involvement by the Trump camp with the Russians would amount to treason? I just think most of this will be brushed under the carpet. It's getting more difficult to see who the bad guys and the good guys are. Nobody is even sure whose side the FBI or CIA are on, but just promoting their own interests ahead of democracy. It's all become very murky. Truth no longer matters.

I think what also needs to be answered is why was Michael Flynn being monitored in the first place and how was the information leaked to the Washington Post?

I think we will find out very little about the FBI/CIA until Congress threaten their funding when it comes up for review this Winter.

I would wager a bet that nothing, absolutely nothing will come of this investigation.

Water John

Donald Trump Jnr, in hot water now because of his tweeting. In respect to the London Mayor. Again only reading the first line of a report, then jumping in feet first.
Wonder where he learned that?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/mar/22/donald-trump-jr-tweet-london-mayor-sadiq-khan

Also Russian Ex MP murdered in Kiev.
I wonder now, who did that? Donald Trump's friend?

demfad

A lot of smoke and now finally a little bit of fire:

Ranking Democrat in the House Intel committee said this yesterday:

"I don't want to get into specifics but I will say that there is evidence that is not circumstantial and is very much worthy of an investigation."

That is a shift from Sunday's "Meet the Press" interview, when Schiff only went as far as to say that there was circumstantial evidence of collusion and "direct evidence" of deception.

Also a very significant leak to CNN:

US officials: Info suggests Trump associates may have coordinated with Russians

The FBI has information that indicates associates of President Donald Trump communicated with suspected Russian operatives to possibly coordinate the release of information damaging to Hillary Clinton's campaign, US officials told CNN....
One law enforcement official said the information in hand suggests "people connected to the campaign were in contact and it appeared they were giving the thumbs up to release information when it was ready...

This is a significant step further than what we have publicly heard before and corroborated what Adam Schiff has claimed.

In other news

treasury Department agents have recently obtained information about offshore financial transactions involving President Donald Trump's former campaign chairman, Paul Manafort, as part of a federal anti-corruption probe into his work in Eastern Europe

First report indicating that Trumps ex campaign manager may face criminal charges. Not good news for Trump.
The main banking accounts being probed are his Bank of Cyprus accounts/transactions.

Remember a few more coincidences:

• Wilbur Ross the US secretary of Commerce is vice principle of Bank of Cyprus
• A manin shareholder is Rybolovlev who bought Trumps Florida mansion for $100 million and whose jet was seen parked beside Trumps at airports during end of campaign rallies and during the Flynn crises weekend.

And remember: Manafort insisted on Mike Pence being Trumps VP nomination.

In more news Tillerson has bizarrely claimed he didn't want the secretary of State job, had never met Trump before he was offered the job and was stunned to get it.
Whoa dvised Trump tp pick him and why? (assuming hes not lying)

Professor Moriarty

Kitsunegari wrote: »

I think what also needs to be answered is why was Michael Flynn being monitored in the first place and how was the information leaked to the Washington Post?

I think we will find out very little about the FBI/CIA until Congress threaten their funding when it comes up for review this Winter.

I would wager a bet that nothing, absolutely nothing will come of this investigation.

It's gone past the point where whether Trump and his cronies were tapped is a concern. The content of those communications is what is scaring The Donald and his associates. Never pays to piss your intel services off.

Leroy42

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

It's gone past the point where whether Trump and his cronies were tapped is a concern. The content of those communications is what is scaring The Donald and his associates. Never pays to piss your intel services off.

I see this line trotted out and it amazes me each time. it seems the narrative is being driven, and accepted by many, that this whole thing is just a dastardly plan to bring down Trump and the Drain the Swamp movement.

Firstly, there is no evidence, whatsoever, to back this claim up.
Second, if anything, Comey is pro Trump based on his actions regarding HC.
Thirdly, Comey stated that the investigation had begun last July, well before Trump had any reason to be feared or upsetting to the FBI/CIA.

This investigation has nothing to do with POTUS Trump, and everything to do with possible issues regarding Russia attempts to interfere. Given the clear links between Manafort, Flynn, Tillerson and Russia, and coupled with Trumps strange behaviour in basically calling out enemies all over the place but never once having anything bad to say about either Putin or Russia, it is not exactly a stretch to think that something could possibly be going on.

Now, its a long way from having some suspicions and actually it being true, but clearly all the circumstantial evidence is pointing to at least the possibility.

As POTUS, and the GOP being leaders of the House and Senate, they really owe it to the US people to get back confidence in the system. They appear, at present, to be going out of their way to rip it up.

InTheTrees

demfad wrote: »

First report indicating that Trumps ex campaign manager may face criminal charges. Not good news for Trump.
The main banking accounts being probed are his Bank of Cyprus accounts/transactions.

It looks like manafort was being paid millions per year to work for the russians even while he was Trumps campaign manager.

This would also explain Spicer's feeble attempts to imply that manafort, trumps campaign manager, was really only a peripheral part of the team.

InTheTrees

Leroy42 wrote: »

As POTUS, and the GOP being leaders of the House and Senate, they really owe it to the US people to get back confidence in the system. They appear, at present, to be going out of their way to rip it up.

Yesterday in a completely bizarre and unprecedented move the Chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, David Nunes, visited the whitehouse and gave a rambling vague interview afterwards.

For the chairman of the Intelligence committee to be visiting the subject of the investigation is highly irregular, congress and the presidency are separate branches of government, and will it probably jeopardize the entire house investigation. There are still two other investigations ongoing though.

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/325376-dem-rep-nunes-betrayed-intel-panels-independence

Kitsunegari

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

It's gone past the point where whether Trump and his cronies were tapped is a concern. The content of those communications is what is scaring The Donald and his associates. Never pays to piss your intel services off.

That's an incredible attitude and I suppose you think the intelligence services should be allowed to do what they want?

demfad

Kitsunegari wrote: »

That's an incredible attitude and I suppose you think the intelligence services should be allowed to do what they want?

The Intelligence communities job is to protect the US from all enemies domestic and foreign. That's what they are allowed to do and that is what they are doing.

Elmer Blooker

demfad wrote: »

Also a very significant leak to CNN:

US officials: Info suggests Trump associates may have coordinated with Russians

It may be significant who are all these "officials"

US officials told CNN.

according to one source.

according to those U.S. officials.

..... though officials cautioned that the information was not conclusive

But other U.S. officials who spoke to CNN

One law enforcement official said ....

The FBI cannot yet prove that collusion took place .... the officials said.

....the officials said.

according to US officials.

US officials said the information ....

Leroy42

Kitsunegari wrote: »

That's an incredible attitude and I suppose you think the intelligence services should be allowed to do what they want?

I would expect those that are at the very top, be it POTUS or Taoiseach, would by default, be the subject of greater scrutiny.

I don't understand why Trump would have a problem with this? Surely he knows that, once the correct procedures are followed which apart from Trump himself nobody has alleged if not the case, that once these procedures are met then it is reasonable.

I can't take a bottle of water through an airport, my e-mails can be tracked and opened, peoples personal items can be searched and confiscated if the law believes they pose a risk.

Why to you think this should not be the case for Trump?

Its not about them doing whatever they want, it is them doing what they are tasked to do.

I mean, Trump is a man who thinks that a muslim register is a good idea.

Billy86

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

It may be significant who are all these "officials"

Yeah, Trump supporters tried the same defense with Mike Flynn.

Actually on that note, I'll ask you because I'm struggling to get a plausible answer on this so hopefully you can help out... why do you think Trump and those around him (like Flynn, or Sessions, or about another 4-5 if not more) repeatedly and adamantly lied about connections to and contacts made with Russia, both before and after the election?

demfad

Just to report a development relating to the 'Russian Laundromat' Maginsky that may be connected back to Trump.

Nikolai Gorokhov, a lawyer representing the family of a Russian whistleblower, was reportedly thrown out of the fourth floor of his Moscow apartment building on Tuesday — a day before the 53-year-old was due to appear in court regarding a contentious corruption case...
Gorokhov was working to launch a probe into the death of Sergei Magnitsky, a lawyer who died in prison in 2009 after claiming that organized criminals colluded with Russian government officials to claim a fraudulent $230 million tax rebate.

If you view the central tenet of Russian corruption and criminality as a network of oligarchs, corporation heads, criminal-businessmen, businessmen-criminals criminals with Putin and his top political guys at the centre. Their reach stretching domestically and internationally. This probe and others cuts into some of the corruption and criminality of some of this group. This man was a key witness in a Magnitsky related US Gov case.
See bold below.

Gorokhov is also a key witness in the U.S. government's case against Prevezon Holdings, a Cyprus company owned by Denis Katsyv, son of senior Russian official Petr Katsyv, the release said. The trial, scheduled to begin on May 15th, is in relation to Prevezon's alleged money laundering that Magnitsky discovered, the release continued.

Former New York attorney Attorney Preet Bharara was handling the Prevezon affair before President Donald Trump fired him..