President 'The Donald' Trump and Surprising Consequences - Mod warning in OP

PropJoe10

Don't the Republicans have a majority of about 40 in Congress? Looks as if maths isn't Donnie's strong point either, if hes blaming the Democrats for this failure.

Billy86

Water John wrote: »

May not agree with Ryan but he manned up at his press conference in contrast to Trump.

I can't stand the guy but he is very, very astute and 'presidential' (in terms of how he carries and conducts himself etc) - there's a reason he's been the GOPs golden boy for close to a decade or so despite still only being 47. Had Clinton won barring her having an excellent I reckon he would have breezed into office in 2020. How this joke of a presidency is going may be extremely costly to him though.

Frank Bullitt

Isn't this the anniversary of Obamacare being signed as well?

Water John

Yesterday, that's why they wanted the vote yesterday, originally.

InTheTrees

PropJoe10 wrote: »

Ridiculous to blame the Democrats considering the large majority that the GOP have in the house! Trump has no credibility as a human being, never mind as POTUS

It also makes the democrats look like the responsible adults in all of this childish squabbling and finger pointing.

Blame them? The republican healthcare bill was a huge joke, we should thank the democrats.

PropJoe10

InTheTrees wrote: »

It also makes the democrats look like the responsible adults in all of this childish squabbling and finger pointing.

Blame them? The republican healthcare bill was a huge joke, we should thank the democrats.

Yep, I dont think Trump acting like a spoilt toddler will come as a surprise to anyone. In fairness to Ryan, at least he came out and faced the music without resorting to cheap blame mongering.

relax carry on

I can't remember any other campaign or presidency generating this much interest. Is it Trump himself and his astounding lack of qualifications not just as president but potentially as a member of the human race. Or is it the surrounding members of his team and their various back stories?

As a follow on question, has any other US president ever been mocked as much before by comedians, advertising​ etc.

PropJoe10

relax carry on wrote: »

I can't remember any other campaign or presidency generating this much interest. Is it Trump himself and his astounding lack of qualifications not just as president but potentially as a member of the human race. Or is it the surrounding members of his team and their various back stories?

As a follow on question, has any other US president ever been mocked as much before by comedians, advertising​ etc.

I think its Trump to be honest. Before this, we had reality TV. Now, we have the White House! It's compelling, if nothing else!

Harry Palmr

relax carry on wrote: »

I can't remember any other campaign or presidency generating this much interest. Is it Trump himself and his astounding lack of qualifications not just as president but potentially as a member of the human race. Or is it the surrounding members of his team and their various back stories?

As a follow on question, has any other US president ever been mocked as much before by comedians, advertising​ etc.

Hard to compare as we live in an era of instant responses and multi stranded mass media that goes global. I think things were just too grim to mock Bush jr for much of his presidency. Reagan was a popular target in the British media - Spitting Image sketches were legendary but what the Americans were saying was much less seen by the rest of the world back then.

That all said none of the previous inmates came close to Trump in terms of "personality"

Water John

It's more than Trump himself. Its the type of people attached.

Harry Palmr

Water John wrote: »

It's more than Trump himself. Its the type of people attached.

That's true, Reagan, Bush etc all had people who looked and sounded like they knew what they were doing regardless of whether you agreed or indeed if they did it competently. Trump is surrounded by a three ring circus and he isn't even the ringmaster.

BabyCheeses

relax carry on wrote: »

I can't remember any other campaign or presidency generating this much interest. Is it Trump himself and his astounding lack of qualifications not just as president but potentially as a member of the human race. Or is it the surrounding members of his team and their various back stories?

As a follow on question, has any other US president ever been mocked as much before by comedians, advertising​ etc.

Bush would probably be one. He had the advantage of social media still being in it's early stages and didn't have 140 characters at any moment to announce to the world that he has the mind of an excited dog.

Bush was also able to put together a plan or at least worked with people who could.

FatherTed

Itssoeasy wrote: »

https://twitter.com/ap/status/845372509306408960

So it's the democrats fault ? The GOP have a majority in both the house and senate.

Utter failure on Trump/Ryan/GOP. They've talked about repealing ACA for the last 7 years and now they have a majority they cannot come up with a coherent plan. Funny how Trump blames the Dems now saying the Dems own Obamacare. No you stupid pumpkin, you own it now:)

Leroy42

Trump is going with the idea that Obamacare will collapse and he will ride in the save the day.

Only thing people will remember in 2020 is that he in charge of a system can completely broke down, sure wasn't it much better under Obama.

That is the nature of the electorate. It is one of the reasons he got in but he seems to think that will all change now.

He can't simply let Obamacare fail, as that would impact so many voters.

I doubt many people are going to buy into this whole "I did best" stuff. Remember, he said he was the only person that could fix America.

And the biggest thing is that it is all so self inflicted. GOP has the Senate and the house, he is newly elected so has 'mandate', the DNC are pretty much in disarray, they have no leader and apparently no policies and people clearly want change (even if that doesn't mean they want him) and yet he managed to balls this up all on his own.

He can blame Ryan, the dems, Obama all he wants but there really was no need to try to force this through. Just like the EO there was no immediate threat that rushing this would have solved.

I that is not something he can simply gloss over. He did this. He marched them all into a room and demanded, threatened them. And still he lost. And you can be sure that some of the GOP rebels felt more emboldened since Trump is under so much pressure already. Had he handled the 1st few weeks better he would have a much better chance of getting this through.

As one journalist said,

It is all very well aiming to hit the ground running but you have to concentrate on getting your feet down first. Mr Trump seems to have gone at it face first.

wildgreen

The Rulers of the World announced in a statement on Friday “a group of eleven entities and individuals from China and North Korea were sanctioned for transfer of sensitive items for Iran’s ballistic missile program.”

It is believed that the entities and individuals have transferred or acquired sensitive technology that could contribute to the development of weapons of mass destruction, the State Department said.

Looks like Iran have imported a truck with a trailer to launch their chemical weapons - must have been imported from Iraq!

InTheTrees

PropJoe10 wrote: »

In fairness to Ryan, at least he came out and faced the music without resorting to cheap blame mongering.

I think he should resign. Ryan is the one responsible for coming up with this "plan" which was little more than a tax cut for his friends paid for by the poor, children and retirees.
It was remarkable in its greed. You just wonder whether it ever crossed his mind to maybe do the right thing?

And they've had SEVEN years to come up with something, and now he has a republican house, senate and presidency and he decides to try such a blatant "steal from the poor and give to the rich" bill that even his own party cant stomach it.

Trump only gave it his support because the whitehouse is incapable of drafting any kind of coherent plan to do anything. They can only barely write an executive order.

Professor Moriarty

I was watching an interview with a Sky reporter from the US. She was talking about the (non) healthcare vote. She was saying how both the right and the left of the GOP couldn't support the legislation. The Republican party has a left? Jaysus. No.

Water John

The problem is where the centre of it is.
Left = Moderates, reasonably normal people. A good few would have expanded Medicaid in their own districts and states. Also,they could hardly vote to remove, essential cover, which had been done the night before to try and satisfy the extreme right, Freedom Caucus.
They have been vilified when they went home at the weekend.

The poll showing how unfavourable Ryan/Trumpcare was, really did for it.
A 17% favourable rating.
This looks like the core vote, as low as it can go for GOP.

Professor Moriarty

Water John wrote: »

The problem is where the centre of it is.
Left = Moderates, reasonably normal people. A good few would have expanded Medicaid in their own districts and states. Also,they could hardly vote to remove, essential cover, which had been done the night before to try and satisfy the extreme right, Freedom Caucus.
They have been vilified when they went home at the weekend.

The poll showing how unfavourable Ryan/Trumpcare was, really did for it.
A 17% favourable rating.
This looks like the core vote, as low as it can go for GOP.

Good point. They'll be scraping the barrel soon. Those cowards used Trump and his fruitloop policies to gain power and now they're beginning to reap the harvest. It's going to be fun watching them scurry around frantically trying to disassociate themselves from The Donald before the midterms. If things continue on the same trajectory, they mightn't even get the core vote.

BorneTobyWilde

Those Republicans will pay a price for not supporting Trump. He loves to play hard ball, it's not Trumps fault Obamacare is here to stay.
They will come crawling to him now to allow a vote.

Billy86

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Those Republicans will pay a price for not supporting Trump. He loves to play hard ball, it's not Trumps fault Obamacare is here to stay.
They will come crawling to him now to allow a vote.

I thought you had changed your mind and were now against Trump?

Either way, the guy who billed himself as this great negotiator couldn't even get negotiate with his own party, never mind the other side, or independents, or for that matter a different nation. He has embarrassed himself terribly (again) by failing to live up to his boasts.

Christy42

InTheTrees wrote: »

I think he should resign. Ryan is the one responsible for coming up with this "plan" which was little more than a tax cut for his friends paid for by the poor, children and retirees.
It was remarkable in its greed. You just wonder whether it ever crossed his mind to maybe do the right thing?

And they've had SEVEN years to come up with something, and now he has a republican house, senate and presidency and he decides to try such a blatant "steal from the poor and give to the rich" bill that even his own party cant stomach it.

Trump only gave it his support because the whitehouse is incapable of drafting any kind of coherent plan to do anything. They can only barely write an executive order.

Ryan was definitely the architect. However Trump was taking credit throughout the creation process. Sure it was his staff that told him to support it given they could not make anything better but he took credit. Also he should have been involved in the creation process. This was a big promise he made repeatedly and so to ignore it a leave to others to fill his promise is pretty terrible.

Finally he is meant to be some sort of super negotiator. He didn't even have to negotiate with an opposing party and he still failed- and he did try. He is a lame duck president in year one.

(I get you were not really arguing against the above but I see him doing a lot more weasel in out of this than Ryan so feel the point should rammed home securely.

Professor Moriarty

Billy86 wrote: »

I thought you had changed your mind and were now against Trump?

Either way, the guy who billed himself as this great negotiator couldn't even get negotiate with his own party, never mind the other side, or independents, or for that matter a different nation. He has embarrassed himself terribly (again) by failing to live up to his boasts.

Negotiate? If daddy wasn't a very dodgy billionaire, Trump would be on the dole. This hard negotiator sh1te is just egotistical PR. He's a self-entitled bully who gets his own way because daddy gave him money and, when he lost it, he gave him more. He couldn't buy an icecream, let alone negotiate a bill through Congress.

BorneTobyWilde

Billy86 wrote: »

I thought you had changed your mind and were now against Trump?

Either way, the guy who billed himself as this great negotiator couldn't even get negotiate with his own party, never mind the other side, or independents, or for that matter a different nation. He has embarrassed himself terribly (again) by failing to live up to his boasts.

Yes I did. But Obamacare needed replacing, only people putting themselves first could reject it and in doing so they put the people second. They should not be doing that.
Trump did live up to what he said, he is not to blame for this. He tried and now he will play hardball '' you want Obamacare, then have it ''

Billy86

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Yes I did. But Obamacare needed replacing, only people putting themselves first could reject it and in doing so they put the people second. They should not be doing that.
Trump did live up to what he said, he is not to blame for this. He tried and now he will play hardball '' you want Obamacare, then have it ''

And have it they will, which the population are happier about than the alternative proposed. Trumpcare was showing something like 17% public approval during the week, that's incredibly low and it showed in the town hall meetings over the last month or so.

The thing is, Trump is not living up what he promised here - he said he would repeal and replace, he has failed. He said he would lower deductibles, this plan would have seen them go up. He said he would lower costs, this plan would have seen them go up (amazingly, nearly all of the worst hit states would have been the ones that voted for him). He said he wanted to save Medicaid, though this plan according to forecasts would have pretty much killed it within a decade if I recall. Pretty sure there were more too, that's just off the top of my head.

Over-promising and under-delivering has been the hallmark of his career, but it's a lot harder to get away with in a public role than private, since you can't sue the entire media and US population into silence. Don't mean to sound like I'm having a go by the way, I'm just sleepy and the guy is a fraud.

B_Wayne

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Those Republicans will pay a price for not supporting Trump. He loves to play hard ball, it's not Trumps fault Obamacare is here to stay.
They will come crawling to him now to allow a vote.

But Trump promised some extraordinary healthcare bill during his campaign, no? It's very much so his fault when he had so many promises and now reality is setting in.

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Yes I did. But Obamacare needed replacing, only people putting themselves first could reject it and in doing so they put the people second. They should not be doing that.
Trump did live up to what he said, he is not to blame for this. He tried and now he will play hardball '' you want Obamacare, then have it ''

Except the reason the GOP didn't support this bill is simply that their voter base do not support this bill. The people are worse off as a result of 'Trumpcare'. They're considering midterm elections next year, Trump is toxic to the Republicans and is becoming more and more toxic.

Professor Moriarty

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Yes I did. But Obamacare needed replacing, only people putting themselves first could reject it and in doing so they put the people second. They should not be doing that.
Trump did live up to what he said, he is not to blame for this. He tried and now he will play hardball '' you want Obamacare, then have it ''

Trump tried and Trump failed. He spouted populist nonsense about health care. He's been found out. He didn't deliver on his promise. He failed. Loser! Sad!

Christy42

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Yes I did. But Obamacare needed replacing, only people putting themselves first could reject it and in doing so they put the people second. They should not be doing that.
Trump did live up to what he said, he is not to blame for this. He tried and now he will play hardball '' you want Obamacare, then have it ''

He promised the public he would get a great bill through and completely failed to deliver. I also like in his speech about the failure he said it only looked bad because people could only see phase 1 and not phase 2 and 3. Essentially he wanted people to vote for his healthcare bill on the basis of policies none of them have even seen yet. Ridiculous.

Trump went all in on a bad hand trying to get this thing passed. He tried to corral and negotiate with representatives and failed big time. If he can't negotiate these people around to his way of thinking then he won't get legislation through. This goes double for when the democrats end up with control of at least one of the houses.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Yes I did. But Obamacare needed replacing, only people putting themselves first could reject it and in doing so they put the people second. They should not be doing that.
Trump did live up to what he said, he is not to blame for this. He tried and now he will play hardball '' you want Obamacare, then have it ''

In what way is people rejecting Trumpcare "putting their own needs first"? - If anythign it's putting the needs of those who would lose their healthcare before their own.

BoatMad

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Yes I did. But Obamacare needed replacing, only people putting themselves first could reject it and in doing so they put the people second. They should not be doing that.
Trump did live up to what he said, he is not to blame for this. He tried and now he will play hardball '' you want Obamacare, then have it ''

whaat, The president supported this bill and even theatened hardball with the wavering members of the GOP.

Then they pulled it, because they couldnt actually get their own party to agree to support it . Its a clear defeat for the authority of a so-called republican president

how anyone can see it as anything else , is a sure sign they have drunk the Donald branded " Kool-Aid"


as for Ryan , his lack off experience is showing , this was a major showcase bill from him

his answer when he recommended to Trump the vote be pulled

"Doing big things is hard."

no sh!t Sherlock