President 'The Donald' Trump and Surprising Consequences - Mod warning in OP

jimmycrackcorm

BorneTobyWilde wrote:

Those Republicans will pay a price for not supporting Trump. He loves to play hard ball, it's not Trumps fault Obamacare is here to stay. They will come crawling to him now to allow a vote.

The GOP know they can't effectively replace ACA. That's why they can't agree amongst themselves. For all the blistering about ACA, anything they come up with will cost then votes amongst their own affected voters.

Meanwhile Trumps failures with the wall, two travel ban attempts and now the great American health act just remind us that the one skill that Trump is very proficient at is bankruptcy.

The Americans badly need a war to distract.

BabyCheeses

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Yes I did. But Obamacare needed replacing, only people putting themselves first could reject it and in doing so they put the people second. They should not be doing that.
Trump did live up to what he said, he is not to blame for this. He tried and now he will play hardball '' you want Obamacare, then have it ''

No he didn't. Trump promised Obamacare would be gone and everything in the new plan would be better. It would be cheaper and nobody will lose coverage.

What we got was the rich will pay less, everyone else pays more, whats left will lose what they have. Trump supports this plan and said if they don't vote for it then he is moving on and you get to keep the ACA.

Trumpcare was not as he promised and now he is giving up. He is on Muslim ban v2.0 but can't be assed to implement what he promised.

jimmycrackcorm

BabyCheeses wrote:

Trumpcare was not as he promised and now he is giving up. He is on Muslim ban v2.0 but can't be assed to implement what he promised.

It's more of a case that he is only now seeing the difference between being in control of a business and being in control of nothing.

Must be a culture shock for him.

seamus

The good news here is less than the fact that Trump's moronic "tax break for rich people" healthcare plan is dead, but that there are apparently enough people in the GOP who are repulsed by this nonsense to stand up to it.

Trump doesn't have the metal fortitude to understand being told "no" continuously. As a businessman he surrounds himself with "yes" men who do what makes him happy, even though it has made him "broke" on a number of occasions.

Within a year he'll throw his hands up and quit. And he'll claim it's someone else's fault. Narcissists cannot countenance they might be wrong.

BoatMad

AT least the GOP realised that ACA was just as bad as AHCA , ryan fu7ked up big time

Billy86

BoatMad wrote: »

how anyone can see it as anything else , is a sure sign they have drunk the Donald branded " Kool-Aid"

To be fair while he was a big supporter of Trump's during the campaign if I recall, BTBW was also quick to address his displeasure with Trump in office. As much as I get wound up with Trump fans (in my opinion, often intentional) double think on so many issues, I don't think there's much to be gained in being antagonistic towards those willing to admit they made a mistake on this front.

Not singling you out because there's been quite a backlash in the last ten or so posts on this thread, and yeah I get that BTBW is incorrect in Trump being in the right on this or doing what he said he would. But being hostile towards people willing to admit that Trump is simply a bad president doesn't serve much purpose as it's just likely to push them back towards him and the circle jerk that surrounds him (Trump that is, not BTBW! ).

It also would make any Trump fans beginning to have doubts - and I'm guessing there are a few more than are letting on, after the last week or two especially, even the drop in posts from the ardent Trump defenders in recent weeks seems to suggest it - less likely to cross over as well if all they are see those that way going before them get hostility from the anti-Trump crowd (as well as the pro-Trump crowd) and more likely to go back to the safety of at least having a 'side' (because the human brain is weird like that) or at the least just keeping quiet on their disapproval of Trump as a result.

infogiver

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

It's more of a case that he is only now seeing the difference between being in control of a business and being in control of nothing.

Must be a culture shock for him.

If imagine his blood pressure is through the roof. This is a totally new and thoroughly unpleasant experience for him. I can't even imagine what his humour is like.

BoatMad

Billy86 wrote: »

To be fair while he was a big supporter of Trump's during the campaign if I recall, BTBW was also quick to address his displeasure with Trump in office. As much as I get wound up with Trump fans (in my opinion, often intentional) double think on so many issues, I don't think there's much to be gained in being antagonistic towards those willing to admit they made a mistake on this front.

Not singling you out because there's been quite a backlash in the last ten or so posts on this thread, and yeah I get that BTBW is incorrect in Trump being in the right on this or doing what he said he would. But being hostile towards people willing to admit that Trump is simply a bad president doesn't serve much purpose as it's just likely to push them back towards him and the circle jerk that surrounds him (Trump that is, not BTBW! ).

It also would make any Trump fans beginning to have doubts - and I'm guessing there are a few more than are letting on, after the last week or two especially, even the drop in posts from the ardent Trump defenders in recent weeks seems to suggest it - less likely to cross over as well if all they are see those that way going before them get hostility from the anti-Trump crowd (as well as the pro-Trump crowd) and more likely to go back to the safety of at least having a 'side' (because the human brain is weird like that) or at the least just keeping quiet on their disapproval of Trump as a result.

despite a rather worldly post , I was merely reacting to this comment

"he is not to blame for this. He tried and now he will play hardball "

Trump IS directly to blame for the mess. He supported the bill and threw his weight behind ryan , going to far as to threaten republicans with Obamacare, ( something that he has no control over, as the GOP will repeal Obamacare eventually )


what we are seeing is a president whose almost every action has been frustrated or so ill advised as to be almost unimplementable , fluffing it , along side the speaker, in a a major policy platform bill

the midterms are looking like a whole heap of fun in my opinion

Christy42

seamus wrote: »

The good news here is less than the fact that Trump's moronic "tax break for rich people" healthcare plan is dead, but that there are apparently enough people in the GOP who are repulsed by this nonsense to stand up to it.

Lets be fair. Part of the reason this died is that some GOP members were repulsed by it. Part of the reason is also that some thought it wasn't enough of a tax break for the rich.

BoatMad

Christy42 wrote: »

Lets be fair. Part of the reason this died is that some GOP members were repulsed by it. Part of the reason is also that some thought it wasn't enough of a tax break for the rich.

there was push back from both left and right wing republicans

but thats not the point , when ryan announced the ACA , it was largely greeted with " dead oN arrival " cries . it shows up his ineptitude that he ( and the president ) tried to strong arm this through and royally screwed up

jimmycrackcorm

seamus wrote:

Within a year he'll throw his hands up and quit. And he'll claim it's someone else's fault. Narcissists cannot countenance they might be wrong.

I'll be first in the queue to remark what a truly great president he was to boldly try to fight the system.

And then cancel my building plans for my nuclear basement shelter.

I think he'll have a go at trying to reduce taxes first, if he succeeds then he'll follow up with a book telling us how to improve your business by being president just to reduce your tax bill.

Nody

BoatMad wrote: »

AT least the GOP realised that ACA was just as bad as AHCA , ryan fu7ked up big time

Actually the reason GOP rejected it was not because it was bad but because it did not cut mandatory services far enough. Things such as hospitalization, maternity care etc. was included as requirement in all insurance policies and they objected to this being the case.

Kitsunegari

Nody wrote: »

Actually the reason GOP rejected it was not because it was bad but because it did not cut mandatory services far enough. Things such as hospitalization, maternity care etc. was included as requirement in all insurance policies and they objected to this being the case.

What Republicans objected to this bill due this act 'not cutting mandatory services far enough'? The GOP rejected this bill for lots of reasons.

Nody

Kitsunegari wrote: »

What Republicans objected to this bill due this act 'not cutting mandatory services far enough'? The GOP rejected this bill for lots of reasons.

House Freedom Caucus which represent about 30 odd republicans rejected it because it did not cut services far enough and that group alone was enough to sink the bill.

Quin_Dub

seamus wrote: »

The good news here is less than the fact that Trump's moronic "tax break for rich people" healthcare plan is dead, but that there are apparently enough people in the GOP who are repulsed by this nonsense to stand up to it.

Christy42 wrote: »

Lets be fair. Part of the reason this died is that some GOP members were repulsed by it. Part of the reason is also that some thought it wasn't enough of a tax break for the rich.

And therein lies the problem within the GOP..

The Tea-party types hated the AHCA because it didn't go far enough in gutting Government funded Healthcare and the more moderates felt it went way to far in doing the same thing.

Reconciling that disconnect is effectively impossible as anything done to appease one faction loses you support with the other.

Letting Obamacare "implode" doesn't solve the problem either , it just makes life terrible for regular people..

Eventually one side or the other has to get total control as the GOP as it stands will never be able to do a thing with Healthcare

I read last night that Trump initially wanted the vote to go ahead regardless so that he could "name and shame" those that voted against the bill , but Ryan and others talked him down from that as they recognised that the political fall-out from that would be huge.

This way , a majority of them can wait and see how the wind is blowing with their voters and claim that they either supported or didn't support the failed bill , which ever is more politically expedient for them..

Harry Palmr

The right hated it, the sane centre didn't like it, the Democrats sure weren't going to bail Trump out so it died - classic case of bad party management. That they only realised at the last minute the bill would not pass is pretty damning. As someone pointed out on BBC radio this morning, the loss of face (if that's possible with Trump) is much better than the alternative of getting it through - it would have done the GOP far greater damage. That pundit also noted that ObamaCare was in fact a variation on Bob Doles health care proposals from the early 90s which was formulated as an alternative to what Hillary Clinton was hoping to get legislated for.

Water John

Yes Trump carries the can for this. the Bill was about 100 pages. He likely did not even read it, just a two page synopsis.

It clearly favoured the rich.

http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2017/mar/23/ron-johnson/gop-obamacare-replacement-cuts-aid-lower-income-pe/

Trump's ire was actually mostly directed at the Freedom Caucus. They got the removal of essential cover the day before and still said, no.
By then the Mods had, of course hardened as a no.
Ryan and Trump bet on their own hard right supporting them and were skewered by them.

All the cats are now out of the bag and neither Ryan or Trump will have the ability or standing to herd them back in.

InTheTrees

Water John wrote: »

Yes Trump carries the can for this. the Bill was about 100 pages. He likely did not even read it, just a two page synopsis.

Yes. Its turning out the whitehouse are a load of bumbling idiots. This wasn't even the whitehouse plan, they just just jumped on ryans house of representatives plan and supported that because it turns out the whitehouse is only barely able to write an executive order, writing healthcare legislation is way beyond them, especially since they have to come up with a budget right now.

So what the hell happened to trumps "amazing" plan? He said he was going to replace Obamacare with something far better?

Water John

All he has is a puff of smoke. I won't say which end it's coming out of.

nice_guy80

Scary to think about it, but it looks like they are making it up as they go along

Billy86

Well this is unfortunate...

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/ads-praising-gop-replacing-obamacare-aired-ahca-flopped-article-1.3008640

The ads, which were produced by the conservative American Action Network PAC, urged constituents to thank their Republican congressmen and women for "keeping" their promises and "replacing the Affordable Care Act with the better health care you deserve.

At least four such ads ran during basketball games on Republican-adjacent TV markets, thanking Reps. Barbara Comstock (R-Va.), David Young (R-Iowa), David Valadao (R-Calif.) and Will Hurd (R-Tex.), according to Deadspin.

As of early Saturday, another eight identical ads remained on the American Action Network's YouTube page.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I'll be first in the queue to remark what a truly great president he was to boldly try to fight the system.

And then cancel my building plans for my nuclear basement shelter.

I think he'll have a go at trying to reduce taxes first, if he succeeds then he'll follow up with a book telling us how to improve your business by being president just to reduce your tax bill.

... but on who's behalf is he fighting the system?

eire4

Nody wrote: »

House Freedom Caucus which represent about 30 odd republicans rejected it because it did not cut services far enough and that group alone was enough to sink the bill.

That is correct. The Republicans could only afford to lose 21 votes I think and the extremists in the freedom caucus represent something of the order of 36 house members so as long as they were against it they had no chance of passing this bill.

Igotadose

eire4 wrote: »

That is correct. The Republicans could only afford to lose 21 votes I think and the extremists in the freedom caucus represent something of the order of 36 house members so as long as they were against it they had no chance of passing this bill.

NYT has the list of the GOP members that shot it down. Not just the "Freedom" Caucus, a wide range:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/03/24/us/politics/republicans-opposed-health-care-bill.html

eire4

Igotadose wrote: »

NYT has the list of the GOP members that shot it down. Not just the "Freedom" Caucus, a wide range:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/03/24/us/politics/republicans-opposed-health-care-bill.html

Indeed there were others absolutely correct. My point was given the Republicans could only lose 21 votes and the extremist wing has 36 or so members then it really did not matter what other Republicans opposed it.

26000 Elephants

With all this talk of healthcare failures, one might forget about the reds under the bed...

The plot thickens around Flynn. It seems some reports suggest he may have turned federal witness. I took this with my usual level of cynicism, but after reading this from the nat'l Enquirer, I start to believe it.... :rolleyes:



Of course its an entirely disreputable source, but thats not the point. They print whatever Trump tells them. This is the narrative he wants his supporters to believe.

Water John

Hard to second guess why there is a sudden rush by 3 to testify before House Intel Comm.

This has the potential, even considering what has happened already, to leave us gobsmacked.

wonderfullife

Water John wrote: »

Hard to second guess why there is a sudden rush by 3 to testify before House Intel Comm.

This has the potential, even considering what has happened already, to leave us gobsmacked.

Mike Flynn's spokesperson: "He is refusing to respond on the question".

The question being "Has Flynn taken a deal with the FBI?".

First one to talk gets the best deal. This is definitely ending up in criminal indictments and it all depends on the GOP about impeachment of Trump. If he's sinking in the polls near winter time they will use the first excuse possible to pull the trigger to get Pence in.

Devin Nunes is caught up in this up to his neck. Nunes was at a private meeting with Flynn and the Turkish Foreign Minister in late January.

For him to be Chairing any investigation into this is LITERALLY like asking a murder suspect to be both the Judge and Prosecution of their own murder trial.

"Yeah, so I can't present any evidence that I murdered him so I'm gonna just go ahead and find myself Not Guilty, cheers have a nice day I'm on the next flight to Peru".

Harry Palmr

"We shall fight them on the beaches"

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/mar/26/fights-erupt-at-pro-donald-trump-rally-on-california-beach

Itssoeasy

So I'm not the only one who thinks Flynn struck a deal with the Feds and is going to sing like a canary. The only thing to be decided is in which key he'll sing in.