President 'The Donald' Trump and Surprising Consequences - Mod warning in OP

Zubeneschamali

demfad wrote: »

'If you don't vote this in Trump is a lame duck president and you wont get anymore of those other religious Statist policies you want. If you DO vote it through we will give you EVERYTHING ELSE you want and we will revisit and and finish the gutting of healthcare again later.'

Worryingly, it might work.

In a functional White House with a properly staffed government, the President can work with Congress, draft legislation, encourage it, push for it, influence it.

But Trump hasn't bothered to hire staff. Whole departments are empty at the top. They cannot draft or vet orders or legislation, as we see from Trumps dopey EOs and the health act.

No-one in Congress is going to believe Trump can deliver anything after the health balls-up, why would they stick their necks out for him?

InTheTrees

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Trump is also extremely proactive. If it's not going his way, he won't just let it proceed. He'll do what he needs to tilt the balance in his favour.

I'm not seeing that at all. He failed miserably to pass legislation through a republican house and senate because he was unable to make a deal with anyone.

His Muslim bans are a joke as well.

All he's actually achieved is to undo a lot of regulations by using executive orders.

Billy86

For the shambles that is Nunes, it looks like Richard Burr (who is Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman - basically in the Senate what Nunes is in the House, and a Republican... and who backed Trump through the election apparently) isn't having it. Him & his Democrat counterpart Mark Warner appear to be have a strong relationship and an interest in conducting a proper, bipartisan investigation.

They also said this today: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/russian-trolls-hilary-clinton-fake-news-election-democrat-mark-warner-intelligence-committee-a7657641.html

The Kremlin paid an army of more than 1,000 people to create fake anti-Hillary Clinton news stories targeting key swing states, the leading Democrat on the committee looking into alleged Russian interference in the US election has said.

Senator Mark Warner, the Democrat ranking member, and chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee Republican Senator Richard Burr, appeared together at a press conference to give an update on the investigation ahead of the first witnesses appearing today.

Mr Warner said: “We know about the hacking, and selective leaks, but what really concerns me as a former tech guy is at least some reports – and we’ve got to get to the bottom of this – that there were upwards of a thousand internet trolls working out of a facility in Russia, in effect taking over a series of computers which are then called botnets, that can then generate news down to specific areas.

Again, that is a bipartisan statement, with his Republican counterpart right beside him.

MayoSalmon

InTheTrees wrote: »

I'm not seeing that at all. He failed miserably to pass legislation through a republican house and senate because he was unable to make a deal with anyone.

His Muslim bans are a joke as well.

All he's actually achieved is to undo a lot of regulations by using executive orders.

They may well be however it was a campaign promise and kudos for trying to deliver it.

Zubeneschamali

Billy86 wrote: »

Again, that is a bipartisan statement, with his Republican counterpart right beside him.

Yes, even Ryan has already stated that everyone accepts that the Russians hacked the election. That's why Obama added those sanctions.

The question is how much Trump's campaign knew, and how much they communicated and co-ordinated the release of hacked information with the Russians.

This is why Trump is freaking out about wire-taps - he is afraid his people and maybe himself are recorded speaking to the Russians about hacks and quid pro quo.

Zubeneschamali

MayoSalmon wrote: »

They may well be however it was a campaign promise and kudos for trying to deliver it.

Yes, he promised to violate the Constitution, and by God, he did it!

Billy86

Can't get onto it for the next hour and a half or so, but it looks like the Senate commission hearing has begun - I'm guessing there's a live stream on Youtube for anyone interested.

Mr.Micro

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Yes, even Ryan has already stated that everyone accepts that the Russians hacked the election. That's why Obama added those sanctions.

The question is how much Trump's campaign knew, and how much they communicated and co-ordinated the release of hacked information with the Russians.

This is why Trump is freaking out about wire-taps - he is afraid his people and maybe himself are recorded speaking to the Russians about hacks and quid pro quo.

Trump and Co. will squirm out of it one way or another, IMO.

Leroy42

MayoSalmon wrote: »

They may well be however it was a campaign promise and kudos for trying to deliver it.

What an odd statement.

He didn't try very hard, he threw together some rubbish EO which has fallen at every legal hurdle. He either has no ability to understand what is required or has no interest in doing it.

I trust you expect more from politicians that just giving it a go

MayoSalmon

Leroy42 wrote: »

What an odd statement.

He didn't try very hard, he threw together some rubbish EO which has fallen at every legal hurdle. He either has no ability to understand what is required or has no interest in doing it.

I trust you expect more from politicians that just giving it a go

He's puts to bills together so far in 2 months

MayoSalmon

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Yes, he promised to violate the Constitution, and by God, he did it!

And guess what he was voted in on that basis. Take your issues up with the electorate

Billy86

MayoSalmon wrote: »

He's puts to bills together so far in 2 months

Huh?

Billy86

https://twitter.com/RVAwonk/status/847471364848074752

Well!

demfad

Billy86 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/RVAwonk/status/847471364848074752

Well!

Ok, OK.

Flynn accused of being Erdogan's foreign agent.
Flynn accused of trying to head bag Cleric Gulen out of U.S for Erdogan.
Here is Flynn talking with Turkey Foreign Minister.
But who is the third man?

Billy86

Not sure, is it Mikhael Kalugin who is an example of the Steele dossier being verified as accurate? Will be interesting to see if he has a heart attack in the next while.

demfad

Looks a bit like him (and I wish it was) but here's a more recognisable shot:

Edit: I thought it was Karlov (assassinated Russian ambassador to Turkey).
The source for that has now withdrawn the assertion. Apologies, I will find out who it is.
Kalugin, was dragged back to Russia as per dossier.
There is stuff online about an address he had in Florida, where a realtor for Trump Towers was registered, and a Russian politician/spy.
Will load up.

Billy86

A few very interesting bits from Watts (who Burr went out of his way to commend, not just for speaking up but for his recommendations, at the end of the first session - second session is at 7pm I think)...

Itssoeasy

MayoSalmon wrote: »

Leroy42 wrote: »

What an odd statement.

He didn't try very hard, he threw together some rubbish EO which has fallen at every legal hurdle. He either has no ability to understand what is required or has no interest in doing it.

I trust you expect more from politicians that just giving it a go

He's puts to bills together so far in 2 months

Nope only 1 bill and it didn't even get a vote because it seems the freedom caucus have decided to not bend over for trump.

MayoSalmon

Itssoeasy wrote:

Nope only 1 bill and it didn't even get a vote because it seems the freedom caucus have decided to not bend over for trump.

Essentially two bills, the first one issued in January was redrafted in early March

CMOTDibbler

MayoSalmon wrote: »

Essentially two bills, the first one issued in January was redrafted in early March

If you're talking about the 'Muslim' bans, they weren't bills, they were Executive Orders.

Christy42

MayoSalmon wrote: »

Essentially two bills, the first one issued in January was redrafted in early March

And both were exceptional failures. Sure he got them out quickly but that is his fault as well. Both are on his and his team and both failed.

MayoSalmon

Christy42 wrote:

And both were exceptional failures. Sure he got them out quickly but that is his fault as well. Both are on his and his team and both failed.

Were they? Because until they are overturned by the Supreme court they are not... Patience

Kitsunegari

Christy42 wrote: »

And both were exceptional failures. Sure he got them out quickly but that is his fault as well. Both are on his and his team and both failed.

The Republican health bill wasn't really his work. It's Ryan's work. He's responsible for trying to ram it through and it failed spectacularly but the bill itself is the work of Ryan.

His support of that bill should have turned off his fans instead 4Chan and The Donald are saying it's part of his 'master plan' to remove Ryan as the chair. If that is the case he's doing a pretty terrible job so far.

CMOTDibbler

MayoSalmon wrote: »

Were they? Because until they are overturned by the Supreme court they are not... Patience

Either way they have so far failed to do what they set out to do. Doesn't really speak much to "getting things done quickly".

InTheTrees

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Nope only 1 bill and it didn't even get a vote because it seems the freedom caucus have decided to not bend over for trump.

The joke is his book "the art of the deal" is looking more and more like fiction as his presidency continues. He doesn't seem to be able to make any deals at all.

Nody

MayoSalmon wrote: »

Were they? Because until they are overturned by the Supreme court they are not... Patience

As Trump did not appeal the first one that one is already dead and can't be resurrected except as a new EO. The second one is still going through the system but once again I expect Trump will end up dropping as well.

Leroy42

Kitsunegari wrote: »

The Republican health bill wasn't really his work. It's Ryan's work. He's responsible for trying to ram it through and it failed spectacularly but the bill itself is the work of Ryan.

His support of that bill should have turned off his fans instead 4Chan and The Donald are saying it's part of his 'master plan' to remove Ryan as the chair. If that is the case he's doing a pretty terrible job so far.

He ran on a promise to repeal and replace. He said that he might even call a special sitting on inauguration day to put it through.

The fact he went with the plan that Ryan had done was either that he was happy with it, or he found it too complicated to work one out.

Either way, to try to claim that it wasn't his work is fanciful. The only way that you can claim that is to accept that despite all his promises on the campaign he hadn't actually got any plan beyond the slogan and in fact only for Ryan he would be left floundering about trying to work it out.

That is why he can't really blame Ryan, as he knows this rests solely with him.

If you run on a particular promise and fail to deliver, you cannot start blaming others for your overselling and failure.

InTheTrees

MayoSalmon wrote: »

Were they? Because until they are overturned by the Supreme court they are not... Patience

The "travel ban" has been overturned by a federal judge in Hawaii I believe.

The rules will not take effect until the trump adminstration appeals. I think if the appeals court considers the federal judges decision to be correct then they'll simply let it stand and won't even hear the case.

Leroy42

MayoSalmon wrote: »

Were they? Because until they are overturned by the Supreme court they are not... Patience

He is not bringing the 1st one to the supreme court, so even he has accepted failure.

The second one is still being worked through, but for a president to state that it was done in haste as it was an emergency he seems to be pretty laid back about chasing it through

Kitsunegari

Leroy42 wrote: »

He ran on a promise to repeal and replace. He said that he might even call a special sitting on inauguration day to put it through.

The fact he went with the plan that Ryan had done was either that he was happy with it, or he found it too complicated to work one out.

Either way, to try to claim that it wasn't his work is fanciful. The only way that you can claim that is to accept that despite all his promises on the campaign he hadn't actually got any plan beyond the slogan and in fact only for Ryan he would be left floundering about trying to work it out.

That is why he can't really blame Ryan, as he knows this rests solely with him.

If you run on a particular promise and fail to deliver, you cannot start blaming others for your overselling and failure.

My point was that you can't say that it's his work and it's not. Your point does not refute that fact so your other assertions are just moving the goalposts to suit your argument. Shame.