President 'The Donald' Trump and Surprising Consequences - Mod warning in OP

Really Interested

Billy86 wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=102452295&postcount=5396
If Trump or any of his administration actively promote or seek to remove LGBT rights while in power I will drop any support I have for them. Pence has a checkered past but it's not his right to impose what he believes on others. Up to now they've been following through with campaign promises but something like that would be over the line. I wouldn't be alone, many of his supporters would react the same imo.

and back in January



That wound up being the exact piece of legislation he removed only weeks after the debacle over transgender people and bathroom which is not going to effect their absurdly high rate of suicide attempts (30-40% of trans people attempt suicide before their 18th birthday, if I recall).

It's like our own mini trumpgate where old posts come back and haunt the poster. Irony is so yummy.

BoatMad

Really Interested wrote: »

It's like our own mini trumpgate where old posts come back and haunt the poster. Irony is so yummy.

The internet never forgets

aloyisious

Kitsunegari wrote: »

Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? The burden of proof is on you. You can't prove something didn't happen so it's incredible that you would suggest that you have to prove that Trump is innocent rather than assume he is innocent.

It's clear the the intelligence services have absolutely no proof of collusion with the Russians. If they do why don't they release it? Like the WMD in Iraq, nothing is to be taken seriously from the US intelligence services. People have clearly learned nothing from the past.

Now we have reporters like Maggie Haberman withholding information from the public because it doesn't suit her agenda against Trump.

Right now, this is nothing but smoke and mirrors from the intelligence agencies and the Democrats. Where is the evidence Leroy? or is this just another scaremongering witch hunt?

Now we have reporters like Maggie Haberman withholding information from the public.

Right now, this is nothing but smoke and mirrors from the intelligence agencies and the Democrats. Where is the evidence Leroy?

???

Kitsunegari

aloyisious wrote: »

Now we have reporters like Maggie Haberman withholding information from the public.

Right now, this is nothing but smoke and mirrors from the intelligence agencies and the Democrats. Where is the evidence Leroy?

???

I'm not sure what is going on your post but is a clarification; Maggie Haberman knew that former president Barack Obama's security adviser Susan Rice made requests to have Trumps's associates unmasked. She didn't report it because it doesn't fit in with her political agenda against Trump.

MightyMandarin

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Off topic? Yet you brought Hillary up a few posts ago. Rather ironic.

Hank's a walking contradiction, and always has been. He's too far in to stop supporting Trump now.

Professor Moriarty

aloyisious wrote: »

Now we have reporters like Maggie Haberman withholding information from the public.

Right now, this is nothing but smoke and mirrors from the intelligence agencies and the Democrats. Where is the evidence Leroy?

???

That's interesting. Would you have a link to that report?

demfad

Kitsunegari wrote: »

Right now, this is nothing but smoke and mirrors from the intelligence agencies and the Democrats. Where is the evidence Leroy? or is this just another scaremongering witch hunt?

Can you please relate why the fact that
1) Ten Trump campaign members lied about contacts with Russia
2) Flynn was fired and lied to the FBI.
3) Ranking house intel Dem Schiff maintained that there is massive circumstantial evidence and evidence that is more than circumstantial?
Thats just a small amount but enough.
If you cant explain these then your comment above can only be intended to spread disinformation and expend genuine users energy countering deliberate falsehoods.

Leroy42

aloyisious wrote: »

Now we have reporters like Maggie Haberman withholding information from the public.

Right now, this is nothing but smoke and mirrors from the intelligence agencies and the Democrats. Where is the evidence Leroy?

???

So you think that people are only investigated after all the evidence is all ready investigated?

I don't have all the evidence, what we all have is a very suspicious set of circumstances. Trump asking Russia to hack e-mails. Manafort being financially linked to Russia. Flynn lying about contacts with Russia to the VP and I presume Trump as otherwise Trump wouldn't have hired him.

We have Jeff Sessions accepting that he lied about his meetings with the Russians, under oath!

We have Carter Page and Roger Stone. We have Jared apparently meeting with a CEO of a banned Russian Bank. We have the FBI stating that they are actively investigating the Russian links.

We have Trump himself claiming that he and his team were caught up in surveillance of Russia agents.

We have Trump stating that he knows of no one on his team who had any contact yet it has been proven that this was clearly not the case.

We have the strange instance that Trump has taken to twitter to denounce the GOP, the DNC, the media, Mexico, companies, individual members of congress and has had issues with many of the US allies including NATO.

Yet he has never, not even once, made any negative comment about Putin. The closest he got was to say that US is not an angel either.

One of these if strange but not of itself anything to get excited about. But all of them together. When every single piece of information is all pointing in one direction you seem to think that it isn't even worthy of serious investigation?

Why has Trump been caught lying so many times? Why is he now so worried about leaks when previously he seemed happy with leaks? Why are those around him lying to him about Russia and yet he does nothing to distance himself from them (he didn't want to let Flynn go despite knowing he lied and even commented that he felt Flynn was right).

All this is put in front of you and you want more?

demfad

Erik Prince joins the Russia gang:

Accused of setting up back chanel contact between Trump/Putin day after Steele dossier release:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/blackwater-founder-held-secret-seychelles-meeting-to-establish-trump-putin-back-channel/2017/04/03/95908a08-1648-11e7-ada0-1489b735b3a3_story.html?utm_term=.2eacc6a7f074

The United Arab Emirates arranged a secret meeting in January between Blackwater founder Erik Prince and a Russian close to President Vladi­mir Putin as part of an apparent effort to establish a back-channel line of communication between Moscow and President-elect Donald Trump, according to U.S., European and Arab officials...
U.S. officials said the FBI has been scrutinizing the Seychelles meeting as part of a broader probe of Russian interference in the 2016 U.S. election and alleged contacts between associates of Putin and Trump. The FBI declined to comment...
..Prince is best known as the founder of Blackwater, a security firm that became a symbol of U.S. abuses in Iraq after a series of incidents, including one in 2007 in which the company’s guards were accused — and later criminally convicted — of killing civilians in a crowded Iraqi square.

Prince is Betsy DeVos's brother. Another Russian connection.

PopePalpatine

I wonder, when was the last time Trump claimed he would "drain the swamp"? :rolleyes:

demfad

Another DeVos connection:

The October FBI FISA warrant was for suspicious communications involving Alfabank and SVB bank.

Alfa bank was communicating with a private server in Trump tower intermittently. A server in 'Spectrum Health' Michigan had also been intermittently involved but less frequently.

After many data analysts examined the data flows they started to see...

...a much clearer working model to explain what we were all seeing: SQL Server Database Replication between multiple sites.

For people outside the FBI a guess can only be hazarded as to what the replicating databases contained.
The guy who wrote the blog makes the most logical guess:

a working theory is that Russia created a voter targeting database with information gleaned from hacked DNC data rolls and other data rolls 'acquired' from other states to feed this growing contact database. That database originated at Russian Intelligence which was in turn replicated to Russia's Alfa Bank. This is where the data laundering takes place, Alfa Bank is the pivot point where the FSB's data fingerprints are wiped clean. Ironically Russia launders its data at the same place it launders its money.

In New York Trump Tower could merge data into this system using various legal sources as well. Spectrum Health could also add value to the data by matching names and addresses in their extensive healthcare databases to harvest email addresses and phone numbers to flesh out this list. All these changes would be promptly replicated back to Russia in a matter of hours.

Once back in the hands of Russian Intelligence, this massaged data could be programmatically matched up with social media handles to create a micro-targeted 'hit list' for the thousand Russian trolls employed by Putin.

The Payoff

How is this a breakthrough? Now that we have identified the likely means of how this data was transferred, data analysts now have more precise points to search for to arrive at a complete reveal of the massive data collusion between Team Trump and America's foremost adversary.

Could this be some of the 'more than circumstantial' evidence that Schiff has seen?

It was reported that the CIA were not even aware of this investigation. Makes sense in this scenario.

Billy86

demfad wrote: »

Another DeVos connection:

The October FBI FISA warrant was for suspicious communications involving Alfabank and SVB bank.

Alfa bank was communicating with a private server in Trump tower intermittently. A server in 'Spectrum Health' Michigan had also been intermittently involved but less frequently.

Apparently pings to both Trump Tower and Spectrum accounted for 99% of Alfa Bank's servers activity.

How... peculiar...

Quin_Dub

demfad wrote: »

Another DeVos connection:

##Mod Note##

I'm going to have to ask for something more than quotes from a random blog here.

Beyond the widely publicised "server ping" information do you have any other sources for the assertions here?

Thanks

demfad

Quin_Dub wrote: »

##Mod Note##

I'm going to have to ask for something more than quotes from a random blog here.

Beyond the widely publicised "server ping" information do you have any other sources for the assertions here?

Thanks

I'm assuming the FBI FISA license on Trump Tower etc is not in dispute as this has been leaked a number of times from US Intel.

As this guy is guessing what this data pattern might entail another source would also be a guess.

To give weight to what he says: his blog post has been publicised by the Palmer report .

This post by Louise Mensch also endorses his findings but gives a more general picture incorporating how Cambridge Analytica and SCL used this data.
Ukrainian Oligarch Dmitri Firtash's (will be extradited from Austria to US) connection to CA, SCL and as Manaforts partner is revisited also.

The SQL theory is new and only a day old but it seems to be endorsed by those who have got it right thus far and have contacts in the intel community.

Leroy42

demfad wrote: »

The SQL theory is new and only a day old but it seems to be endorsed by those who have got it right thus far and have contacts in the intel community.

You keep saying stuff like this. Nothing has been shown to be right at this point.

Also, it appears that the only link to Trump in the story is the fact the servers were in Trump Towers, but these are used as offices/apartments so it could be anyone using these servers, no?

It starts off with a premise that it can't prove, and then goes on to show how that premise could have been achieved. Its a circular argument.

BoatMad

PopePalpatine wrote: »

I wonder, when was the last time Trump claimed he would "drain the swamp"? :rolleyes:

funnily , rather then that he seems to have built half a dozen new sewer pipes discharging into said swamp .

Sam Russell

Leroy42 wrote: »

You keep saying stuff like this. Nothing has been shown to be right at this point.

Also, it appears that the only link to Trump in the story is the fact the servers were in Trump Towers, but these are used as offices/apartments so it could be anyone using these servers, no?

It starts off with a premise that it can't prove, and then goes on to show how that premise could have been achieved. Its a circular argument.

Well, Trump has alleged that he was targeted or 'wire tapped' as he put it in Trump Tower.

Well, he has therefore admitted that he was the target of the surveillance in Trump Tower, so that is the link you are looking for - not quite the Bart Simpson defense but not far off it.

BoatMad

Leroy42 wrote: »

You keep saying stuff like this. Nothing has been shown to be right at this point.

Also, it appears that the only link to Trump in the story is the fact the servers were in Trump Towers, but these are used as offices/apartments so it could be anyone using these servers, no?

It starts off with a premise that it can't prove, and then goes on to show how that premise could have been achieved. Its a circular argument.

this was the argument used by smoking causes cancer deniers , right up till the end
" nothing has been proven ", as they dropped dead around them like flies

or " comical Ali " , there are no US tanks in Baghdad etc

remember the old maxim ( and Occams Razor )

if it walks like a duck and squawks like a duck , its most likely a duck

demfad

Leroy42 wrote: »

You keep saying stuff like this

The last time you said that was about evidence of collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia. I gave you a non-exhaustive page on that, which you accepted so I'm suprised you are going there

Nothing has been shown to be right at this point.
Also, it appears that the only link to Trump in the story is the fact the servers were in Trump Towers, but these are used as offices/apartments so it could be anyone using these servers, no?

Nothing can be shown to be definitively 'right' in this particular instance because the FBI and those behind those servers are the only ones who know what the data is.

What we do know is that the FBI made a FISA application in the summer naming Trump associates and possibly Donald Trump himself. They altered the SAME FISA application to the FISC court to target the servers and got the FISA warrant. This was another way to skin the cat, the cat being the Trump campaign.

We also know the Russians hacked the voter rolls, amongst about 3000 other people of interest and servers.

We also know that Cambridge Analytica and SCL (with ties to Alfa Bank and Fridman from Steel Dossier, and to Robert Mercer and Steve Bannon) was involved in micro-targeting and fake news amplification.

The data patterns fit SQL synchronisation, and it fits how the hacked electoral info might be laundered and used and it fits the FBIs massive interest in these servers.
A guess, but an educated one backed up by some people with excellent sources who have called things correctly to date.

Leroy42

On one side you have people who have the view that something went on. On the other you have those, mainly Trump supporters, that claim that nothing went on.

I'm in the middle. It really does look suspicious but there are plenty of far more qualified people than us looking into information that we simply do not have access to and they haven't produced anything.

I fully understand that you don't need the smoking gun out in public to mean it happened, that will be for the courts, but we are in an era when leaks are everywhere and yet no definitive link as been forthcoming. With so many people looking to bring Trump down (for good reasons) why hasn't it come out yet.

I mean, if some people claim to have more than circumstantial evidence why did they not produce instead of holding back and risk the repeal of Obamacare and the soon to be Supreme Court Justice. It doesn't make sense, that they would agree to hold off.

Also, with the way Nunes is carrying on don't you think DNC are within their rights to tell the US people the truth.

My point is that whilst it is all very suspicious, the lack of any smoking gun is starting to become a bit tiresome. Will it come out in the end, possibly, but none of us have access to the required information to be able to make a call one way or another.

In terms of the evidence of collusion, again I have very serious concerns in that area and I fully accept that you have a very detailed list of areas that point in one direction. And I applaud that. It doesn't prove anything though.

demfad

Leroy42 wrote: »

On one side you have people who have the view that something went on. On the other you have those, mainly Trump supporters, that claim that nothing went on.

I'm in the middle. It really does look suspicious but there are plenty of far more qualified people than us looking into information that we simply do not have access to and they haven't produced anything.

I fully understand that you don't need the smoking gun out in public to mean it happened, that will be for the courts, but we are in an era when leaks are everywhere and yet no definitive link as been forthcoming. With so many people looking to bring Trump down (for good reasons) why hasn't it come out yet.

I mean, if some people claim to have more than circumstantial evidence why did they not produce instead of holding back and risk the repeal of Obamacare and the soon to be Supreme Court Justice. It doesn't make sense, that they would agree to hold off.

Also, with the way Nunes is carrying on don't you think DNC are within their rights to tell the US people the truth.

My point is that whilst it is all very suspicious, the lack of any smoking gun is starting to become a bit tiresome. Will it come out in the end, possibly, but none of us have access to the required information to be able to make a call one way or another.

In terms of the evidence of collusion, again I have very serious concerns in that area and I fully accept that you have a very detailed list of areas that point in one direction. And I applaud that. It doesn't prove anything though.

I have given you a very long long exhaustive page of links, leaks, evidence etc. between team Trump, Donald Trump and Russia. Lets not go around in circles.

Here is someone who knows far more than you or I: Paul Woods from the BBC.

Hillary Clinton's former campaign manager, Robby Mook, said that if Trump's aides knew of Russia's plans, there should be charges of treason.
Trump's enemies ask us to believe that some of his people were either traitors or dupes.
The president himself has another version of events: there was no "co-ordination"; the whole thing is a monstrous lie created by the Obama administration, fed by the intelligence community and amplified by the "dishonest" media, billowing black clouds of smoke but no fire.
When the dossier was released, he tweeted: "Are we living in Nazi Germany?"
These two stories cannot be reconciled.
With each new drip of information, option three - the chance that this is all a giant mistake, an improbable series of coincidences - seems further out of reach.
Increasingly, the American people are being asked to choose between two unpalatable versions of events: abuse of power by one president or treason that put another in the White House.
It cannot be both.

The bold section makes me curious as to why you are taking the middle ground. Trump simply can't explain away all these connections without the need to create a huge Obama driven conspiracy. What exactly is your explanation for them?

What happens now is that the congress investigations continue. If all investigations are successfully scuppered by Trump, then you will get your big smoking gun leak. Till then the rightful place for that intel to be revealed is in congressional hearings.

BoatMad

Increasingly, the American people are being asked to choose between two unpalatable versions of events: abuse of power by one president or treason that put another in the White House.
It cannot be both.

You are right , it cannot be both. thats because it isn't, The Trump side is now in full on deflect mode, as the smoke gets thicker and thicker.

The american people are only really being asked one thing, How did a lying gangster get elected

Billy86

Daily Caller. Marvelous. I bet the mods will feel very silly about an already known fact that does not mean, nor previously meant, the Obama administration were spying on Trump.

Good to see another Trump fan admitting that Trump's campaign had various contact with Russia, mind you. The confirmation bias sandcastle continues to crumble ion on itself with the inhabitants oblivious from the safe space inside.

listermint

Amerika wrote: »

Nonsense

Closing your account because you haven't been vindicated and don't want to stick around for the answers.

There is no excel document, people are regularly unmasked on request to give more clarity to the transcripts.

Embarrassing stuff .

B_Wayne

Amerika wrote: »

Nonsense

Erm nope, still haven't produced proof that Obama ordered a wire tap on Trump or that there even was a wiretap on Trump.... So not vindicated in the slightest.... :pac:

PopePalpatine

B_Wayne wrote: »

Erm nope, still haven't produced proof that Obama ordered a wire tap on Trump or that there even was a wiretap on Trump.... So not vindicated in the slightest.... :pac:

It's like trying to do a mic drop, but somehow it bounces off the ground and rebounds straight into your crotch. :pac:

Leroy42

Big test for Trump with the alleged chemical attack. Actually feck it, why call it alleged. It was clearly a chemical attack.

What is Trump going to do after calling Obama out as being weak. Will he call Putin up to sort Assad out?

Will he put US boots on the ground or take some decisive action in the air?

Surely he can't simply stand by and let Russia let Assad to continue on with actions like this?

Water John

Yes, he will just do nothing.

MightyMandarin

Amerika wrote: »

Nonsense

You won't be missed around here anyway.

Always was one of the few posters I truly disliked around here. Consistently made ridiculous statements time after time then would disappear when asked for proof or make spurious claims to distract people.

Glad to see your final act was a total failure of a mic drop which is symbolic of the failure of the clown in the White House whom you support so vehemently.

Don't let your arse hit the door on the way out.

aloyisious

Kitsunegari wrote: »

I'm not sure what is going on your post but is a clarification; Maggie Haberman knew that former president Barack Obama's security adviser Susan Rice made requests to have Trumps's associates unmasked. She didn't report it because it doesn't fit in with her political agenda against Trump.

Taa OK. I was wondering why a journalist would with-hold "information" worthy of a story.

Watching the news that's true on Fox. Rice has denied she leaked anything, GOP senators asking for investigation of Rice "unmasking".

Is this Rice "unmasking" story "fake" news being used to divert attention from the Gen Kelly factual story, and whom Nunes met on the White House lawn for a "briefing"?