President 'The Donald' Trump and Surprising Consequences - Mod warning in OP

Amerika

Overheal wrote: »

It's a senate confirmation hearing not a criminal trial. Senators have the ability to add testimony to the record.

Senators get to 'testify' to their hearts content in the questioning and debate leading up to a confirmation vote. No need for one to play 'witness.'

MightyMandarin

Amerika wrote:

It’s nothing more than a dog and pony show.

The irony of this criticism. Trump has made politics itself nothing more than a dog and pony show, as have the GOP for the entirety of Obama's reign.

Chuck Schumer is -brilliantly- going after McConnell by sending back his letter he sent to Harry Reid in 2009 with his name and signature subbed in as part of the Democrat's plans to obstruct the confirmation process.

He tweeted this yesterday https://twitter.com/SenSchumer/status/818544880658108416/photo/1

Considering the Republicans did nothing but obstruct Obama during his entire 8yrs, it's time the Democrats do the exact same thing. Anyone who says 'take the moral high ground' or 'don't stoop to their level' can go get lost with Hillary, because the Republicans won't stop destructing the country unless they lose Congress and state control.

Amerika

MightyMandarin wrote: »

The irony of this criticism. Trump has made politics itself nothing more than a dog and pony show, as have the GOP for the entirety of Obama's reign.

Chuck Schumer is -brilliantly- going after McConnell by sending back his letter he sent to Harry Reid in 2009 with his name and signature subbed in as part of the Democrat's plans to obstruct the confirmation process.

He tweeted this yesterday https://twitter.com/SenSchumer/status/818544880658108416/photo/1

Considering the Republicans did nothing but obstruct Obama during his entire 8yrs, it's time the Democrats do the exact same thing. Anyone who says 'take the moral high ground' or 'don't stoop to their level' can go get lost with Hillary, because the Republicans won't stop destructing the country unless they lose Congress and state control.

Yes, the time to stop things is before it happens. But since the democrats set precedence, the republicans would be fools not to do the same things. Sure the democrats can try and obstruct, but it would be at their own peril. And it’s an exercise in futility as every one of Trump’s cabinet picks will probably get confirmed, and will do so with the help of several democrats. But the republicans did obstruct, after Obama essentially told them to go f^@% themselves because they (the democrats) won and had control. And I expect the democrats to do the same, which would only put them in peril.

Overheal

Amerika wrote: »

Senators get to 'testify' to their hearts content in the questioning and debate leading up to a confirmation vote. No need for one to play 'witness.'

Is it your turn to get tripped over semantics now? I lost track

MightyMandarin

Amerika wrote:

Yes, the time to stop things is before it happens. But since the democrats set precedence, the republicans would be fools not to do the same things. Sure the democrats can try and obstruct, but it would be at their own peril. And it’s an exercise in futility as every one of Trump’s cabinet picks will probably get confirmed, and will do so with the help of several democrats. But the republicans did obstruct, after Obama essentially told them to go f^@% themselves because they (the democrats) won and had control. And I expect the democrats to do the same, which would only put them in peril.

According to what logic will the Democrats be 'in peril' by leading the same policy of obstruction the GOP lead for 8years?

There's midterms up in 2 years and although there's only 8 red seats up for grabs in the senate, as long as keep Washington in the stalled state it's been in for many years already, the american public will get mad and take their anger out on the President and his party.

The american electorate are one of the most angry (and rightfully so) and least educated in the western world and most don't know/care what day to day stuff goes on in Congress until they see the effects themselves on their own streets and on their paychecks. If they did, they'd have seen how that snake McConnell has operated the past 8 years and Kentuckians wouldn't have re-elected him.

KingBrian2

MightyMandarin wrote: »

The irony of this criticism. Trump has made politics itself nothing more than a dog and pony show, as have the GOP for the entirety of Obama's reign.

Chuck Schumer is -brilliantly- going after McConnell by sending back his letter he sent to Harry Reid in 2009 with his name and signature subbed in as part of the Democrat's plans to obstruct the confirmation process.

He tweeted this yesterday https://twitter.com/SenSchumer/status/818544880658108416/photo/1

Considering the Republicans did nothing but obstruct Obama during his entire 8yrs, it's time the Democrats do the exact same thing. Anyone who says 'take the moral high ground' or 'don't stoop to their level' can go get lost with Hillary, because the Republicans won't stop destructing the country unless they lose Congress and state control.

That would be incredible foolish. The Democrats have to work with the incoming administration to sort out the many issues that concern both parties otherwise the electorate will desert the party once again.

MightyMandarin

KingBrian2 wrote:

That would be incredible foolish. The Democrats have to work with the incoming administration to sort out the many issues that concern both parties otherwise the electorate will desert the party once again.

The electorate deserted them when they tried to implement reforms and fled to the party who caused the roadblocks in the first place. That's how most people see politics nowadays unfortunately: the President is responsible for everything.

Let's not forget Mitch McConnell said in 2009 "Our sole objective is to stop Pres. Obama during his term of office". They didn't hide their intentions and neither should the Democrats. It's time they stooped to their level, because taking the moral high ground has resulted in nothing but losses for the Democrats.

KingBrian2

MightyMandarin wrote: »

The electorate deserted them when they tried to implement reforms and fled to the party who caused the roadblocks in the first place. That's how most people see politics nowadays unfortunately: the President is responsible for everything.

Let's not forget Mitch McConnell said in 2009 "Our sole objective is to stop Pres. Obama during his term of office". They didn't hide their intentions and neither should the Democrats. It's time they stooped to their level, because taking the moral high ground has resulted in nothing but losses for the Democrats.

Those are not the sentiments expressed by the Democratic party. Coverage of the Dems post Trump is that they made a number of mistakes which resulted in groundswell support for the opposition. Are the Dems going to remain the party of arrogance or move to work with Trump. Their are areas the Dems and Mr Trump see eye to eye on.

MightyMandarin

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Those are not the sentiments expressed by the Democratic party. Coverage of the Dems post Trump is that they made a number of mistakes which resulted in groundswell support for the opposition. Are the Dems going to remain the party of arrogance or move to work with Trump. Their are areas the Dems and Mr Trump see eye to eye on.

The sentiments remain to be seen, but unless they man a policy of obstructionism, they might just allow the country to be destroyed. If they have any courage, they'll copy the Republicans.

Trump did not win the 2016 election, the DNC and Hillary lost it. If the DNC hadn't corrupted their own damn nomination process and elected the candidate with overwhelming support among the base, they'd have won easily. 2016 was the year of anti-establishment, and the DNC chose the most establishment of canidates in the history of establishment candidates.

The DNC are responsible for Trump imo. Everything he does is on them after what they did to their party and the people of America. If they work with him, they might just alienate their base so much that the party could split. It's nothing to do with arrogance, we know exactly what Trump and the GOP are doing (despite how much guff they spew to distract their base into thinking they're "draining the swamp") and if they allow that to happen without obstructing the process the same way the GOP did to Obama, their 'liberal views' are nothing but rubbish.

I challenge you to find me one thing Trump and the Democrats can agree on. Even on patriotism they couldn't agree, considering he colluded with a foreign enemy to help him get elected.

MightyMandarin

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/10/politics/donald-trump-intelligence-report-russia/

Yeah, I realise it's CNN, but this is actually insane.

Classified documents presented last week to President Obama and President-elect Trump included allegations that Russian operatives claim to have compromising personal and financial information about Mr. Trump, multiple US officials with direct knowledge of the briefings tell CNN.

The two-page synopsis also included allegations that there was a continuing exchange of information during the campaign between Trump surrogates and intermediaries for the Russian government, according to two national security officials.

This is beyond belief, and a lot has happened during and since the 2016 election.

The President could be blackmailed by Russia. This is like a movie.

recedite

MightyMandarin wrote: »

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/01/10/politics/donald-trump-intelligence-report-russia/

OK, so what are CNN actually saying there....

This synopsis was not an official part of the report from the intelligence community case about Russian hacks, but some officials said it augmented the evidence that Moscow intended to harm Clinton's candidacy and help Trump's, several officials with knowledge of the briefings tell CNN.
...CNN has reviewed a 35-page compilation of the memos, from which the two-page synopsis was drawn. The memos originated as opposition research, first commissioned by anti-Trump Republicans, and later by Democrats. At this point, CNN is not reporting on details of the memos...

So anti-Trump activists apparently hired a former MI6 employee to dig up some dirt, and then circulated some dirt.
It is notable that the US intelligence agencies themselves did not back up any of this, they merely informed Trump that those rumours were circulating about him in Obama administration/Democrat circles.

El_Duderino 09

RDM_83 again wrote:

One is on private organizations, the other is on the government itself, thats two fundamentally different things. I would have liked if more stuff had been leaked about the Republicans but even if its one side being forced to air their dirty laundry in public more openness in politics shouldn't be considered a bad thing.

I fail to understand the need to draw a huge distinction between the hacks. Both were done to weaken the US. Strictly speaking thee may be a legal distinction but this is a chat forum, not a court. So why would so many people be absolutely fine with one set of hacks and want major action over the other?

El_Duderino 09 wrote:

It appears that Trump and Putin have struck a deal to the effect that the US won't oppose Russian expansion efforts etc. and Russia helped Trump with hacks and fake news. Some people seem to be OK with that arrangement because they support the Republicans or Trump

I said this tho other day and it was my conjecture that trump had struck a deal with Putin. Since then the guardian has reported on a report given by John McCain to the FBI in Dec. The report alleges that Russia has been passing information to trump for the last 5 years to help him topple rivals including Clinton.

It alleges that the Kremlin has compromising information on Trump. A few people have come and gone from trump's team who are also caught up in he affair but the co Stanton has been trump's unwavering support for Russia a Putin.

The guardian has received a copy of the report but it can't be verified at the moment. Unfortunately it sits in the category of potentially fake new until it can be verified/dismissed.

It would explain events but it does need to be verified before being taken seriously.

The FBI has been on the case since December so hopefully they will find out if it's true or not.

NP33

This is absolute golden (shower)

Now let's see how 'patriotic' the Republican base are. Their candidate is a traitor and he has been exposed by a true patriot and war hero in Senator McCain.

Game, set and match to McCain, he deserves a medal for exposing this. Comey deserves the sack, the fact that McCain had to go and personally deliver this to him is shocking.

El_Duderino 09

NP33 wrote:

This is absolute golden (shower)

Need to find out if it's real or not first. It's a pain in the hole that fake news was swallowed whole by trump's target voter demographic. But it's still necessary for the rest of us to wait and find out if it's real or not.

NP33 wrote:

Game, set and match to McCain, he deserves a medal for exposing this. Comey deserves the sack, the fact that McCain had to go and personally deliver this to him is shocking.

McCain tried to set up a select committee to investigate this as soon as he got the information but the republicans blocked it.

If it's real, he'll come out looking well but it's essentially a case of McCain falling on his sword to deliver the report. Trump will have him drummed out for this.

The FBI tried to investigate the 4 main guys implicated. The judge said their scope was too broad. Presumably they narrowed the scope and are investigating. They wouldn't want to discuss ongoing investigations so we don't know if they have done so or not.

Zubeneschamali

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Trump will have him drummed out for this.

What's he going to do, tweet something mean?

McCain is a pro, he has nothing to fear from the Trump clown car.

El_Duderino 09

Zubeneschamali wrote:

What's he going to do, tweet something mean?

Do what's necessary to cause him to resign. McCain's pretty old and he's used to bring a senior republican, chairing various important committees. He probably doesn't want to become a bog standard senator so he'd almost certainly resign.

That's one possible scenario. Do you think trump will be likely to allow him to stay around in high positions?

El_Duderino 09

NP33 wrote:

This is absolute golden (shower)

Oh I didn't get the golden shower reference. Just read about that now. Fascinating.

Still need to wait to see if it's true or not.

Zubeneschamali

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Do you think trump will be likely to allow him to stay around in high positions?

Trump is only the President, he doesn't get to decide anything about who gets to chair Senate committees.

MightyMandarin

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/818990655418617856

This doesn't exactly read like he's 100% innocent and these rumours are nonsense.

El_Duderino 09

Zubeneschamali wrote:

Trump is only the President, he doesn't get to decide anything about who gets to chair Senate committees.

Disloyalty etc

He doesn't need to have the official final word in order to have influence.

Professor Moriarty

MightyMandarin wrote: »

https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/818990655418617856?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

This doesn't exactly read like he's 100% innocent and these rumours are nonsense.

It is amusing to see Trump being eviscerated on Twatter. Karmic.

Jesus, the same internet that doubts the legitimacy of Wikileaks is parading this report around as truth. Have any of ye actually looked at the thing?

Not a single person online seems to be thinking about where this really came from either.. This is far more "Putin" than the DNC stuff. I'm starting to think Russia did both and this fallout, based on people wanting it to be true, the final move.

El_Duderino 09

Deleted User wrote:

Jesus, the same internet that doubts the legitimacy of Wikileaks is parading this report around as truth. Have any of ye actually looked at the thing?

Any analysis I looked at was upfront about the source and truth of the report being unconfirmed as yet. What sites are you reading?

El_Duderino 09

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Any analysis I looked at was upfront about the source and truth of the report being unconfirmed as yet. What sites are you reading?

Social media. When I say "internet", I mean average you and me.

People are saying stuff like "We already knew he was a perfect. Golden showers are a given.. Just nice to get proof."

MightyMandarin

Deleted User wrote: »

Jesus, the same internet that doubts the legitimacy of Wikileaks is parading this report around as truth. Have any of ye actually looked at the thing?

Not a single person online seems to be thinking about where this really came from either.. This is far more "Putin" than the DNC stuff. I'm starting to think Russia did both and this fallout, based on people wanting it to be true, the final move.

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3259984/Trump-Intelligence-Allegations.pdf

It's here if anyone wants to read it.

I don't take it as truth, but considering what's been going on with the investigations, this is crazy if it's true. Trump also doesn't seem to be acting as if it's all bs either; tweeting in all caps isn't really the sign of a man who's confident in himself.

MightyMandarin

Deleted User wrote: »

Social media. When I say "internet", I mean average you and me.

People are saying stuff like "We already knew he was a perfect. Golden showers are a given.. Just nice to get proof."

I find it hilarious that you hold social media to such a high regard that people need 'proof' in order to confirm suspicions to themselves.

There's an untold number of Alt-Right clowns who firmly believe Hillary ran a child-sex ring out of a pizza parlor. Where's their proof?

MightyMandarin

MightyMandarin wrote: »

Trump also doesn't seem to be acting as if it's all bs either; tweeting in all caps isn't really the sign of a man who's confident in himself.

Yep, you've lost me there. This is a typical Trump response, especially if it weren't true.

If he's getting briefed by people in the government and they're asking "Did you piss on those girls in the same bed that Obama slept in?", do you honestly expect him to tweet anything else?

I can't believe in the middle of all of this, people are taking that tweet as an admission of guilt of everything in that report. Talk about believing what you want to believe.

El_Duderino 09

Deleted User wrote:

Social media. When I say "internet", I mean average you and me.

I wouldn't advise getting news from social media.

I see the golden shower part is getting a lot of coverage. It's the most titillating and least interesting part of the story.

MightyMandarin

MightyMandarin wrote: »

I find it hilarious that you hold social media to such a high regard that people need 'proof' in order to confirm suspicions to themselves.

There's an untold number of Alt-Right clowns who firmly believe Hillary ran a child-sex ring out of a pizza parlor. Where's their proof?

Social media to such high regard.. Eh, of course I do. They vote.

And PizzaGate was absolutely tiny and completely overblown by the left.

At the start of pizzagate, I read so many posts by Trump supporters screaming "Stop spreading this shỉt, it's CTR." and you know what, I still think it was them. Only CTR could make something like that blow up in the few hours it took.


This on the other hand is huge and is being taken as truth by a huge swath of America.

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I wouldn't advise getting news from social media.

I see the golden shower part is getting a lot of coverage. It's the most titillating and least interesting part of the story.

Who said I get news from social media? Talk about condescending. I can definitely get reactions from it though.

Zubeneschamali

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

He doesn't need to have the official final word in order to have influence.

As a clown with the attention span of a goldfish, I don't think he will have much influence on the professional politicians in the legislature.

His Cabinet are also a bunch of amateurs, and the entire administration will be a mess of crises and scandals from beginning to end, with no lasting influence at all bar the Supreme Court (and he has already published a list of judges that any republican might have suggeted, so nothing unusual there).