President 'The Donald' Trump and Surprising Consequences - Mod warning in OP

Christy42

Rightwing wrote: »

I'm not posting on this thread anymore for obvious reasons, but:

Fake news, does anyone know who or what to believe anymore?, I certainly don't. All this CIA stuff was an embarrassment.

His tax plan will struggle to get though because the country is in a poor situation economically. Bringing Corp Tax down to 15% is good in theory. Compete with the likes of Irl, but the deficit looks unsustainable.

I wouldn't get too caught up with the 100 day thing, that's just an arbitrary number. I do concede Trump does make things easy for his critics when spouting stuff.

Someone said there are investigations into links between his campaign team and Russia which has already found some links. That the investigation is happening is fact and yet you call it fake news?

The US economy is hardly down the drain. That is merely Trump rhetoric so it seems his failure is not as bad as it is. Also a handy excuse when he screws millions out of healthcare.

pontoonz

how are they backing kig jong un into a corner,

bang bang

ancapailldorcha

pontoonz wrote: »

how are they backing kig jong un into a corner,

bang bang

Hi,

This is a forum for serious debate. Please read the charter before posting again.

Billy86

So... NAFTA... we all remember NAFTA right? The big giant evil that was NAFTA?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-nafta-canada-mexico-justin-trudeau-leaders-enrique-pe-a-nieto-a7705311.html

Donald Trump has revealed he backed down on pledges to scrap Nafta after calls from the leaders of Canada and Mexico.

He said that he had received calls from the two countries' leaders asking him to "renegotiate Nafta rather than terminate". It came one day after he told leaders of the two countries that he wouldn't end the trade pact, and just days after the White House said that the President was considering quitting it entirely.

Harika

Billy86 wrote: »

So... NAFTA... we all remember NAFTA right? The big giant evil that was NAFTA?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-nafta-canada-mexico-justin-trudeau-leaders-enrique-pe-a-nieto-a7705311.html

But he won, as he is now negotiating and showing his skills in crafting a new and better deal for America first.

Billy86

Harika wrote: »

But he won, as he is now negotiating and showing his skills in crafting a new and better deal for America first.

Except he didn't want to renegotiate it, one of the things his rust belt supporters liked most was that he wanted to kill it entirely/withdraw from it.

It's interesting watching the pennies slowly, slowly drop one after another with them how badly (and frankly, how easily) they were conned.

Peregrinus

Harika wrote: »

But he won, as he is now negotiating and showing his skills in crafting a new and better deal for America first.

Ah, yes. Those would be the same negotiating skills he brought to bear to win congressional acceptance for his brilliantly successful repeal-and-replacement of Obamacare!

Phonehead

Harika wrote: »

But he won, as he is now negotiating and showing his skills in crafting a new and better deal for America first.

I wouldn't really say he has a strong bargaining position with Canada, Canada is the largest market for US goods & services and the trade deficit is small ($11 billion in Canada's favour). What tips this deficit in Canada's favour is the $100billion of oil and gas that Canada exports AND which America is dependent on, to be honest I don't think Trump has any idea why there is a deficit and that's probably what Trudeau mentioned to him in their call. If Canada were to pull the plug on it's energy supplies for one day you'd see the entire Eastern and Western Seaboard of the US go dark... Imagine the economic impact of that!!! The GOP would pull the plug on Trumps Presidency in a heartbeat.

PopePalpatine

Billy86 wrote: »

Except he didn't want to renegotiate it, one of the things his rust belt supporters liked most was that he wanted to kill it entirely/withdraw from it.

It's interesting watching the pennies slowly, slowly drop one after another with them how badly (and frankly, how easily) they were conned.

I'm sure he'll distract them with some dog whistles, like the "criminal foreigner hotline".

Billy86

PopePalpatine wrote: »

I'm sure he'll distract them with some dog whistles, like the "criminal foreigner hotline".

Which is apparently being overrun with calls about actual aliens! :pac:

RDM_83 again

Phonehead wrote: »

If Canada were to pull the plug on it's energy supplies for one day you'd see the entire Eastern and Western Seaboard of the US go dark... Imagine the economic impact of that!!! The GOP would pull the plug on Trumps Presidency in a heartbeat.

completely and utterly false, there seems to be this idea that is always popular that consistently underestimates the USA's capacities, look up the Strategic Oil Reserve, they have more than a months oil stored by the federal government to feed normal consumption with no imports and no internal production.

As a long trend in general the USA is becoming less dependent on imported oil as time goes on.

Phonehead wrote: »

I wouldn't really say he has a strong bargaining position with Canada, Canada is the largest market for US goods & services and the trade deficit is small ($11 billion in Canada's favour).

He has an incredibly strong position, 62% of exports are to the USA, and its a simple two party negotiation, the UK is often quoted as having a weak position versus the EU yet its an economy probably 50% larger, negotiating with a group with diverse intentions and priorities and only 44% of exports go to the EU.

Phonehead

It's actually primarily crude oil, which as we both know needs to be refined before it is of any use, there is no clicking of a button and away we go.

wonderfullife

Phonehead wrote: »

I wouldn't really say he has a strong bargaining position with Canada, Canada is the largest market for US goods & services and the trade deficit is small ($11 billion in Canada's favour).

I remain convinced Donald Trump doesn't understand what a Trade Deficit actually is or how it works.

Trade Deficit's aren't even inherently or automatically a problem within themselves.

Anyway, in the genius mind of Donald, I presume he thinks Canada is robbing the US of $11 billion annually and will threaten to build a wall unless they pay before climbing down into building a trip-wire across 200 metres of the border.

Leroy42

I agree wonderlife, I think he thinks of a deficit in the same way as he thinks of tax. He is looking at from a business perspective. Tax is a cost and deficit means a loss. Therefore they are both bad.

Get rid of them both and everything improves. Says so in accounting 101.

I really think that is as far as his understanding goes

Phonehead

wonderfullife wrote: »

I remain convinced Donald Trump doesn't understand what a Trade Deficit actually is or how it works.

Trade Deficit's aren't even inherently or automatically a problem within themselves.

Anyway, in the genius mind of Donald, I presume he thinks Canada is robbing the US of $11 billion annually and will threaten to build a wall unless they pay before climbing down into building a trip-wire across 200 metres of the border.

That is a huge part of the problem!!! NAFTA has been hugely beneficial for all 3 countries, The US alone increased it's exports to Canada & Mexico by 400% because of this agreement, yet Trump for some reason thinks because Canadian lumber is cheaper than US lumber that the US got a bum deal!! He probably saw a segment on Fox & Friends discussing the plights of the lumberjack. It's a bizarre time we live in

Leroy42

So Trump, only 2 days ago was going to cancel Nafta, then he gets a call from the Pres of Mexico and the PM of Canada and he agrees to postpone and start to negotiate. He didn't give any timeline, he didn't give any redline issues, only that he has to be better. But what does that even mean? And in the meantime, the apparently terrible Nafta continues and therefore continues to cost jobs and profits for US companies.

The man is a complete failure. Seriously, how do those around him maintain any respect for him?

But from those that I have heard/read of that have worked with him, they hold him in great regard.

Kitsunegari

Interesting Flynn was re-issued a security clearance in 2016 by the Obama administration despite knowing what happened in 2015. The Democrats need to stop falling over themselves.

Igotadose

Leroy42 wrote: »

So Trump, only 2 days ago was going to cancel Nafta, then he gets a call from the Pres of Mexico and the PM of Canada and he agrees to postpone and start to negotiate. He didn't give any timeline, he didn't give any redline issues, only that he has to be better. But what does that even mean? And in the meantime, the apparently terrible Nafta continues and therefore continues to cost jobs and profits for US companies.

The man is a complete failure. Seriously, how do those around him maintain any respect for him?

But from those that I have heard/read of that have worked with him, they hold him in great regard.

Opinion piece on what's happening in the US re: the Trump administration

First line summary: "Because I was sentient 100 days ago, I’m old enough to remember a time when American presidents were expected, as a matter of course, not to have paid foreign agents among their senior staff. "

And then it goes on to just how broken this administration is, and how surreal things are now.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2017/04/how_frustrated_republicans_view_trump_s_first_100_days.html

Leroy42

Kitsunegari wrote: »

Interesting Flynn was re-issued a security clearance in 2016 by the Obama administration despite knowing what happened in 2015. The Democrats need to stop falling over themselves.

So wait, what? Thet should have denied him access based on only possibles?

So I assume you take the same line with Trump?

How can you possibly try to bring Obama into this?

Igotadose

Kitsunegari wrote: »

Interesting Flynn was re-issued a security clearance in 2016 by the Obama administration despite knowing what happened in 2015. The Democrats need to stop falling over themselves.

Nothingburger. (:P). It's all about the Trump admin GIVING FLYNN A CLEARANCE SO HE COULD RUN THE NSA. They did it, they own it.

I used to live in Washington state. One of the principles law enforcement follows there, I call 'You're in the ditch.' If a cop sees your vehicle in a ditch, he'll issue you a summons for driving faster than the conditions allowed. You can whine, "I was only going 40 in the 35 zone." Doesn't matter - you're in the ditch, ergo, driving faster than conditions allow.

Likewise, the Trump admin granting security clearance to Flynn, they did it, and it was W R O N G. Obama's no longer in office. Trump is. He owns this.

He's the one in the ditch.

wonderfullife

Leroy42 wrote: »

The man is a complete failure. Seriously, how do those around him maintain any respect for him?

But from those that I have heard/read of that have worked with him, they hold him in great regard.

Trump reminds me of one of those bluffers at the bar who will tell you all sorts of fanciful stories of their female conquests, epic sessions on the lash, amazing holidays and, of course, the obligatory "I had a trial with Manchester United when I was 15".

A lot of those spoofers are actually quite likeable in small doses because they're not bad intentioned, just Walter Mitty level delusional.

Igotadose wrote: »

Opinion piece on what's happening in the US re: the Trump administration

In the article above this one ^ - One of the people who voted for Trump listed 3 biggest accomplishments of Trump's Presidency so far:

1. Gorsuch to SCOTUS
2. Firing Missiles at Syria - which we all know bigly put that airfield out of action for about an hour.

and (this is golden)

3. Meeting with foreign leader, Xi Jinping.

The 3rd best achievement is apparently having chocolate cake with the leader of China.


That's what we're dealing with here. If he can tie his own shoelaces and not nuke the world, it's a success for his base.

mcmoustache

Kitsunegari wrote: »

Interesting Flynn was re-issued a security clearance in 2016 by the Obama administration despite knowing what happened in 2015. The Democrats need to stop falling over themselves.

Tell me something. Do you think Trump is doing a good job, politically?

Do you think he speaks well and coherently?

Do you think all of these russian connections are overblown or, perhaps, FAKE NEWS!!!?

Are his long holidays a sign of fatigue or is he just making deals, the best deals?

What about his deals so far?

How do you think he has changed the USA's standing in the world?

Don't worry. I don't need answers. A "But Obama..." or a "But Hillary" will suffice.

Itssoeasy

wonderfullife wrote: »

Trump reminds me of one of those bluffers at the bar who will tell you all sorts of fanciful stories of their female conquests, epic sessions on the lash, amazing holidays and, of course, the obligatory "I had a trial with Manchester United when I was 15".

A lot of those spoofers are actually quite likeable in small doses because they're not bad intentioned, just Walter Mitty level delusional.





In the article above this one ^ - One of the people who voted for Trump listed 3 biggest accomplishments of Trump's Presidency so far:

1. Gorsuch to SCOTUS
2. Firing Missiles at Syria - which we all know bigly put that airfield out of action for about an hour.

and (this is golden)

3. Meeting with foreign leader, Xi Jinping.

The 3rd best achievement is apparently having chocolate cake with the leader of China.


That's what we're dealing with here. If he can tie his own shoelaces and not nuke the world, it's a success for his base.

That's an expectation not an accomplishment. The president of the USA would be expected to meet his Chinese counterpart in 2017. You're right it's golden and a doozie. It seems if trump told his base the sky was red they'd believe him.

aloyisious

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2017/04/27/top-pentagon-watchdog-launches-investigation-into-money-that-mike-flynn-received-from-foreign-groups/

It may sound silly that such a simple thing as the clause that no official can accept a gift from a foreign power might trip up Flynn when the gift acceptance rule has been known about for ages. Even ministers here and in the UK have the rule about not accepting gifts personally, but of accepting them as an agent of the state making the gift state property.

InTheTrees

Flynn's problems are only getting worse. The Defense Department are investigating him as well now, they sent a letter to Flynn before he retired specifically warning him that he cannot accept payments from foreign governments without prior clearance. He ignored the warning so now his army pension is in jeopardy.

Peregrinus

wonderfullife wrote: »

In the article above this one ^ - One of the people who voted for Trump listed 3 biggest accomplishments of Trump's Presidency so far:

1. Gorsuch to SCOTUS
2. Firing Missiles at Syria - which we all know bigly put that airfield out of action for about an hour.

and (this is golden)

3. Meeting with foreign leader, Xi Jinping.

The 3rd best achievement is apparently having chocolate cake with the leader of China.

Oh, be fair. It was ""most beautiful piece of chocolate cake that you've ever seen". And Xi "really enjoyed it", which shows that China can't, after all, be a currency manipulator. And it was important to establish that, because who knew?

wonderfullife

Peregrinus wrote: »

Oh, be fair. It was ""most beautiful piece of chocolate cake that you've ever seen". And Xi "really enjoyed it", which shows that China can't, after all, be a currency manipulator. And it was important to establish that, because who knew?

Who knew granting Trump Org trademarks in China that had been withheld for years would be totally unrelated and purely coincidental to the softened stance.....

Lads it's actually mental what's going on in America now. I've no doubt in my mind that the most dangerous man in the world is currently the American President.

The fact he's also on record saying he'd bang Ivanka if she wasn't his daughter doesn't add any crumbs of comfort.

RDM_83 again

Phonehead wrote: »

It's actually primarily crude oil, which as we both know needs to be refined before it is of any use, there is no clicking of a button and away we go.

Ugh the fact I have to refute this line of reasoning as no other poster has is a good example of how this thread thread is basically just an anti-Trump circle jerk (and I view Trump the same way I view Berlusconi and Sarkozy) a poster can post stuff thats completely ludicrous and if its negative to Trump it gets a pass.

Canada imports crude to the USA, its the same stuff that is in the strategic oil reserve, people don't generally pipeline petrol

Additionally Canada is very dependent on the US buying its oil, the US buys a lot of oil from Canada yes, but its just 30-40% of its total imports*, OPEC and Russia could all scale up output extremely fast, hell the USA could just start buying from Iran.

Canada would be hit so much harder from any action like this its not even funny, if in a fit of insanity J. Trudeau managed to get the oil shut off to the USA I don't think its that sure that you wouldn't see Alberta leaving the Confederation, Trudeau senior left a toxic legacy there for much more minor oil related stuff when he served.

Anyway its complete unlikely this happening, J Trudeau is very much in favour of keeping the oil flowing south, its only a few months ago he was approving pipelines like Keystone XL, this is a good example of how a lot of modern Left-Liberal politics is just about image - Trump for Keystone XL = Outrage! The Environment ! Terrible!
Trudeau for Keystone XL = Gets a pass, look at how dreamy he is and his latest thing on Feminism or Yoga


*https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_impcus_a2_nus_ep00_im0_mbblpd_a.htm

CMOTDibbler

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Ugh the fact I have to refute this line of reasoning as no other poster has is a good example of how this thread thread is basically just an anti-Trump circle jerk (and I view Trump the same way I view Berlusconi and Sarkozy) a poster can post stuff thats completely ludicrous and if its negative to Trump it gets a pass.

Canada imports crude to the USA, its the same stuff that is in the strategic oil reserve, people don't generally pipeline petrol

Additionally Canada is very dependent on the US buying its oil, the US buys a lot of oil from Canada yes, but its just 30-40% of its total imports*, OPEC and Russia could all scale up output extremely fast, hell the USA could just start buying from Iran.

Canada would be hit so much harder from any action like this its not even funny, if in a fit of insanity J. Trudeau managed to get the oil shut off to the USA I don't think its that sure that you wouldn't see Alberta leaving the Confederation, Trudeau senior left a toxic legacy there for much more minor oil related stuff when he served.

Anyway its complete unlikely this happening, J Trudeau is very much in favour of keeping the oil flowing south, its only a few months ago he was approving pipelines like Keystone XL, this is a good example of how a lot of modern Left-Liberal politics is just about image - Trump for Keystone XL = Outrage! The Environment ! Terrible!
Trudeau for Keystone XL = Gets a pass, look at how dreamy he is and his latest thing on Feminism or Yoga


*https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_impcus_a2_nus_ep00_im0_mbblpd_a.htm

If the US could just as easily buy from Russia or Iran, is it not just as easy for Canada to export elsewhere?

It suits both countries to have that trade. Canada and the US share a border and can pipe the oil through. Anything else adds a much bigger transport cost.

Edit: Also the environmental impact of KXL is on the US side of the border. The Canadian leg is relatively much shorter and parallels the existing Phase 3b and is far shorter than it. From a Canadian persspective, it's potentially a much better alternative. Hard to understand how they'd object to that or to the US leg which is none of their business anyway.

Really Interested

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

If the US could just as easily buy from Russia or Iran, is it not just as easy for Canada to export elsewhere?

It suits both countries to have that trade. Canada and the US share a border and can pipe the oil through. Anything else adds a much bigger transport cost.

Edit: Also the environmental impact of KXL is on the US side of the border. The Canadian leg is relatively much shorter and parallels the existing Phase 3b and is far shorter than it. From a Canadian persspective, it's potentially a much better alternative. Hard to understand how they'd object to that or to the US leg which is none of their business anyway.

https://www.google.ie/amp/business.financialpost.com/news/energy/atlantic-canadian-oil-headed-to-china-for-the-first-time-amid-opec-cuts/amp

https://www.google.ie/amp/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4083723

It must be remembered also that for costs reasons Canada imports oil from the USA.


Trade goes both ways post Brexit and Trump some people forget that.

U.S. goods and services trade with Canada totaled an estimated $662.7 billion in 2015. Exports were $337.3 billion; imports were $325.4 billion. The U.S. goods and services trade surplus with Canada was $11.9 billion in 2015.

https://ustr.gov/countries-regions/americas/canada

I would accept a trade war will effect Canada more than USA but seeing how when Trump has reality explained he changes tack I would doubt there will be much change in relations.

While I am no fan of Trump, I do see one positive trait, when he is shown the error of his stupid ideas, knowing that his support is Luke glue he can do what few politicians can and that's turn faster than an unpaid hooker.