President 'The Donald' Trump and Surprising Consequences - Mod warning in OP

Leroy42

Colonialboy wrote: »

Seems everyone is very excited this morning becasue Trump has come out and said it was his decision to fire Comey.

Some see bundling, a WH is chaos and more fuel to the conspiracy theory.
Or else you could think of this as POTUS coming out with this statement to protect Rosenstein (who both Dems and Reps see as a decent DOJ official) .
Rosenstein may have been feeling the heat and not liking it , and now POTUS has taken some of the heat off him.

And look folks calm down im not saying theres nothing to the Russia - WH conspiracy link.
Id just like to see the quality of reporting, analysis and journalism on all of this stuff improve.
The main stream media are so quick to fly off with presenting their one-dimensional agendas that any sort of quality or informative analysis is being lost.

But you have made up that point in order to debunk the other story. you have no idea whether Trump was doing it out of trying to protect Rosenstein or whether he was doing it for himself.

Pas utterences would suggest that Trump doesn't really care to protect anyone but himself. So why have you suddenly come up with this theory?

Isn't the more likely scenario, given what we know of Trump and also in that one of the reasons he stated in the interview was that Comey was "showboating" is that Trump didn't like the narrative that Rosenstein was the one that made the call and Trump doesn't like to look weak.

Leroy42

On the media bias, nobody can claim that the MSM are not being more than fair to Trump. They are fully reporting on all his tweets, given full coverage to the press conferences and allowing his spokespeople on the shows to give their viewpoint.

The fact that the WH has been caught out in numerous lies, alternative facts and even yesterday Trump completely obliterates the line of reasoning that was paraded across all media by the WH over the previous 24 hours.

If the media were really being fair, they should call out every statement made by the WH as totally unproven and probably false until such time as the WH can corroborate the story. It isn't their fault that they need to report on the absurdities, it is Trump himself that is creating them.

Take for example the recent Russian visit to the WH. First they bar all US press. Then it turns out the Russian photographer is a press man, apparently he lied. The WH has just admitted that the security to the very centre of US power was overturned by a simple lie! How can the WH expect anybody to take them seriously

But the Comey affair has nothing to do with media bias. Nothing to do with the campaign, HC. It has to do with a POTUS that decided to fire an FBI director. Since the original 'reasons' have turned out to be false, Trump needs to give a real reason. "not doing a good job" is not really enough.

Hank Scorpio

Really Interested wrote: »

I will engage with any HC discussion you want in a different thread, but why do supporters of Trump always say "a but Hillary" is is transparent.

But as an aside is it illegal for a US media to help in electing a person.

Illegal or not, on the topic of the Russian narrative it's good to know where certain people and networks stand. From a journalistic standpoint it's awful practise and shill like, many of the anchors people listen to are little more than political operatives. Sure even comedians like Colbert's show were taking orders and making shows purely for political propaganda, it's ridiculous in fairness.

https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/46703

The media shilled the 17 intelligence agencies myth for months, Clapper confirmed during the hearings that it wasn't 17, it was only 3. Then lately there's been the story that Trump fired Comey because the FBI asked for more money in the Russia investigation, which has turned out to be false. You could go on and on...

Leroy42

So Hank, you believe that the MSM have been biased in their reporting of this?

What have they done that is wrong?

ThisRegard

It's also laughable to imply that the Republican party didn't flirt with the media either. This type of thing goes on everywhere, it's standard political practice. Heck, there's specific roles within parties purely to do such things, they even make TV shows about it.

Christy42

Leroy42 wrote: »

So Hank, you believe that the MSM have been biased in their reporting of this?

What have they done that is wrong?

Wrong question. It allows Hank to put the media front and center of the thread when it should be Trump front and center with all is flaws and virtues (if any).

A better question is on whether or not Trump should have fired Comey, was he lying about his reasons and could he have handled the firing better to make it look less like he was attempting to impede and investigation (presuming that was not his intent which is far from clear).

Leroy42

Yeah I take your point, but should we just let the claims of media bias go unchallenged? It is the apparent 'truth' that the media is out to get Trump for no reason that has allowed people to continue to support him by blaming others rather than question themselves

I agree though that it is nothing more than a diverting tactic.

Hank Scorpio

Leroy42 wrote: »

So Hank, you believe that the MSM have been biased in their reporting of this?

What have they done that is wrong?

They repeat everything the Democrats say as fact and ignore anything on the contrary. It's all about the narrative and tone. Schiff said multiple times there's evidence of collusion and it was plastered all over the media then weeks later when pressed he admitted there wasn't any.

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/03/23/politics/adam-schiff-trump-russia-grand-jury/

It's a total double standard, how many media outlets have posted the statement below where both a Republican and Democrat confirm that Trump isn't under investigation? There's the Hill, Breitbart and the dailycaller. NBC/ABC/CNN etc haven't touched it.

https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/05-11-17%20Grassley%20Statement.pdf

Hank Scorpio

Leroy42 wrote: »

Yeah I take your point, but should we just let the claims of media bias go unchallenged? It is the apparent 'truth' that the media is out to get Trump for no reason that has allowed people to continue to support him by blaming others rather than question themselves

I agree though that it is nothing more than a diverting tactic.

Yeah, it's diversion when somebody asked me to show evidence that collusion with the media exists. You lot are pathetic tbh. Keep listening to Rachel Meadow and the other loonies.

Leroy42

So Hank, nothing on this actual issue then?

For 24 hours they went with the false story that the WH put out on the firing of Comey, that it was down to the recommendation of Rosenstein.

That it turns out that that itself was completely false is hardly the medias fault. I mean it wasn't even unnamed sources! They gave the WH full access to get their side of the story out, they gave them every opportunity to give the truth.

That they choose to instead lie about it their problem.

Pathetic is not being able to alter your position based on the facts. Whether you like Trump or not, surely even you can see that this last couple of days has been a disaster for Trump, calls into question the standing of the GOP, and calls into question the very independence of the FBI.

I get it, Trump is great, MSM bad. Anything that Trumps happens to do that is wrong is therefore the MSM fault.

Hank Scorpio

Leroy42 wrote: »

So Hank, nothing on this actual issue then?

For 24 hours they went with the false story that the WH put out on the firing of Comey, that it was down to the recommendation of Rosenstein.

That it turns out that that itself was completely false is hardly the medias fault. I mean it wasn't even unnamed sources!

Read between the lines for the Christ sake, or do you need to be spoonfed everything?

It's fecking obvious it wasn't down to Rosenstein. Did you actually believe that? Did any Trump supporter believe it? Did any Democrat? Why in the name of fúck would Trump be defending HRC as a reason to fire Comey, the only reason was to show the hypocrisy of the Democrats. The report was used to add substance and backbone to the firing.

Here's a question, what happens if Trump just outright fired him out of the blue? No reasons or citation given. Christ lads, I know you can be slow at times but try using your brains sometimes.

Really Interested

Leroy42 wrote: »

Yeah I take your point, but should we just let the claims of media bias go unchallenged? It is the apparent 'truth' that the media is out to get Trump for no reason that has allowed people to continue to support him by blaming others rather than question themselves

I agree though that it is nothing more than a diverting tactic.

There is a thread for that. My point is that some persons who support one side or the other have been know to say "over here, not there, here it's the media"

Really Interested

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

Yeah, it's diversion when somebody asked me to show evidence that collusion with the media exists. You lot are pathetic tbh. Keep listening to Rachel Meadow and the other loonies.

If I remember in response to your claim about the media. Just like Trump you change the narrative.

Really Interested

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

Read between the lines for the Christ sake, or do you need to be spoonfed everything?

It's fecking obvious it wasn't down to Rosenstein. Did you actually believe that? Did any Trump supporter believe it? Did any Democrat? Why in the name of fúck would Trump be defending HRC as a reason to fire Comey, the only reason was to show the hypocrisy of the Democrats. The report was used to add substance and backbone to the firing.

Here's a question, what happens if Trump just outright fired him out of the blue? No reasons or citation given. Christ lads, I know you can be slow at times but try using your brains sometimes.

So the WH dis not say it was due to the DAG and AG at any stage.

Everyone accepts it was not DAG or AG it was Trump just like everyone accepts the spin was crap and blew back like a Bangkok hooker.

Hank Scorpio

Really Interested wrote: »

If I remember in response to your claim about the media. Just like Trump you change the narrative.

Do you don't think the overwhelming MSM in the US has a liberal bias?

B0jangles

Has this been posted yet?

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/11/us/politics/trump-comey-firing.html

WASHINGTON — Only seven days after Donald J. Trump was sworn in as president, James B. Comey has told associates, the F.B.I. director was summoned to the White House for a one-on-one dinner with the new commander in chief.

The conversation that night in January, Mr. Comey now believes, was a harbinger of his downfall this week as head of the F.B.I., according to two people who have heard his account of the dinner.

As they ate, the president and Mr. Comey made small talk about the election and the crowd sizes at Mr. Trump’s rallies. The president then turned the conversation to whether Mr. Comey would pledge his loyalty to him.

Mr. Comey declined to make that pledge. Instead, Mr. Comey has recounted to others, he told Mr. Trump that he would always be honest with him, but that he was not “reliable” in the conventional political sense....

By Mr. Comey’s account, his answer to Mr. Trump’s initial question apparently did not satisfy the president, the associates said. Later in the dinner, Mr. Trump again said to Mr. Comey that he needed his loyalty.

Mr. Comey again replied that he would give him “honesty” and did not pledge his loyalty, according to the account of the conversation.

But Mr. Trump pressed him on whether it would be “honest loyalty.”

“You will have that,” Mr. Comey told his associates he responded.

Throughout his career, Mr. Trump has made loyalty from the people who work for him a key priority, often discharging employees he considers insufficiently reliable.

Coincidentally this dinner happened the day after Acting Attorney General Sally Yates met with the White House Counsel to warn him that Flynn had lied about his contacts with the Russians.

Really Interested

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

Do you don't think the overwhelming MSM in the US has a liberal bias?

All media has a bias, I will happily talk about same on the media is biased thread. But if you have not noticed this conversation is about Trump and Comey at the moment. When you know the bias you filter.

You are worse than a new parent at a party, I'm chatting about something of interest and you keep talking about your snotty offspring.

Hank Scorpio

Really Interested wrote: »

So the WH dis not say it was due to the DAG and AG at any stage.

Everyone accepts it was not DAG or AG it was Trump just like everyone accepts the spin was crap and blew back like a Bangkok hooker.

Politician's spin things, news to me.

Bottom line, Comey was toast when he refused to say Trump wasn't under investigation.

Really Interested

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

Politician's spin things, news to me.

Bottom line, Comey was toast when he refused to say Trump wasn't under investigation.

And as he said in public he could not say so. That's the issue if that is why Trump fired him then he is wrong. He should have said I welcome the investigation which will show I had no involvement in same, and I know for a fact that the FBI are bigly great.

I have no issue with spin but I do think less of any person who just crap at it like Trump WH is proving itself with no help from anyone.

Call me Al

Really Interested wrote: »

All media has a bias, I will happily talk about same on the media is biased thread. But if you have not noticed this conversation is about Trump and Comey at the moment. When you know the bias you filter.

You are worse than a new parent at a party, I'm chatting about something of interest and you keep talking about your snotty offspring.

Wikileaks, which has been so extensively quoted and relied on here, and has been so thoroughly reprinted throughout the MSM, has a bias.
It cuts both ways.

Hank Scorpio

Call me Al wrote: »

Wikileaks, which has been so extensively quoted and relied on here, and has been so thoroughly reprinted throughout the MSM, has a bias.
It cuts both ways.

Funny that, if you go back to the Bush years it was the Republicans who wanted Assange assassinated and the Democrats adored him.

Really Interested

Call me Al wrote: »

Wikileaks, which has been so extensively quoted and relied on here, and has been so thoroughly reprinted throughout the MSM, has a bias.
It cuts both ways.

Exactly I believe that wiki leaks has a bias I still read it but use a bit of intelligence to filter it.

Call me Al

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

Politician's spin things, news to me.

Bottom line, Comey was toast when he refused to say Trump wasn't under investigation.

And you think that's acceptable of your President? I'm not talking about a politician here... it's the President.
It is appalling if the standards expected of the Commander in Chief have dropped so dramatically amongst those who support him that this blatant abuse of position is accepted by them.

Leroy42

So you claim that the MSM is bias, but the make a posting telling us how crazy we all are for taking what the WH said was the reason?

So you accept that the WH, who speak on behalf of POTUS, lied. Can you accept that as the reality.

It is either that or Trump is lying. Which one is it.

You can hardly make claims of media bias whilst at the same time allowing lying as nothing more than part of the game

Peregrinus

Wikileak's bias is in favour of openness. They'll publish more or less anything that any government wants to keep secret. From their point of view, the mere fact that a government wants it suppressed makes it worthy of publication.

Which enables them to be used as a conduit for the biases of others, so to speak. If, entirely hypothetically, the Russian government had caches of embarrassing e-mails from both the Democratic and Republican campaigns, and it suited their agenda to favour the Republicans, they they could release just the Democratic campaign e-mails to Wikileaks.

Wikileaks is perfectly aware of this possibility (and its readers should be too) but they don't see it as a reason not to publish the material released to them, as long as they are satisfied that it's genuine.

Hank Scorpio

Call me Al wrote: »

And you think that's acceptable of your President? I'm not talking about a politician here... it's the President.
It is appalling if the standards expected of the Commander in Chief have dropped so dramatically amongst those who support him that this blatant abuse of position is accepted by them.

If you can run a pay for play operation out of the state department and get away with it, and not even be questioned about it, why should I care about morals in the White house? Why should I care if nobody was fired over the email scandal, why should I care if nobody was fired over the IRS scandal and the targeting of Conservative groups? It seems without double standards, the democrats would have no standards at all.

Comey was nothing more than a compromised political hack and the only reason there's so much hysteria is because the fake Russian narrative is coming to roost and without Comey there's nothing there anymore to protect them, they're fecked and they know it. It's the same story day after day about Russian collusion and there's no evidence, Trump wasn't even under investigation.

Oh look, more pay for play hot off the press. Yeah standards dude, standards.

http://circa.com/politics/clinton-pressured-bangladesh-prime-minister-personally-to-help-foundation-donor

Professor Moriarty

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

They repeat everything the Democrats say as fact and ignore anything on the contrary. It's all about the narrative and tone. Schiff said multiple times there's evidence of collusion and it was plastered all over the media then weeks later when pressed he admitted there wasn't any.

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/03/23/politics/adam-schiff-trump-russia-grand-jury/

It's a total double standard, how many media outlets have posted the statement below where both a Republican and Democrat confirm that Trump isn't under investigation? There's the Hill, Breitbart and the dailycaller. NBC/ABC/CNN etc haven't touched it.

https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/05-11-17%20Grassley%20Statement.pdf

That statement says nothing at all about Trump's associates, employees or family members not being under investigation.

Christy42

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

If you can run a pay for play operation out of the state department and get away with it, and not even be questioned about it, why should I care about morals in the White house? Why should I care if nobody was fired over the email scandal, why should I care if nobody was fired over the IRS scandal and the targeting of Conservative groups? It seems without double standards, the democrats would have no standards at all.

Comey was nothing more than a compromised political hack and the only reason there's so much hysteria is because the fake Russian narrative is coming to roost and without Comey there's nothing there anymore to protect them, they're fecked and they know it. It's the same story day after day about Russian collusion and there's no evidence, Trump wasn't even under investigation.

Oh look, more pay for play hot off the press. Yeah standards dude, standards.

http://circa.com/politics/clinton-pressured-bangladesh-prime-minister-personally-to-help-foundation-donor

A hahaha hahaha.

Back to Trump can do whatever he wants cos Clinton.

But you know with every section of the government hating her guts and wanting her locked up they will still fail and yet not wonder why.

This is going no where. You will refuse to hold Trump to any standard due to your own biases. You have waltzed around different reasons but this is what it comes down to here. It makes a serious discussion on Trump impossible.

Professor Moriarty

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

If you can run a pay for play operation out of the state department and get away with it, and not even be questioned about it, why should I care about morals in the White house? Why should I care if nobody was fired over the email scandal, why should I care if nobody was fired over the IRS scandal and the targeting of Conservative groups? It seems without double standards, the democrats would have no standards at all.

Comey was nothing more than a compromised political hack and the only reason there's so much hysteria is because the fake Russian narrative is coming to roost and without Comey there's nothing there anymore to protect them, they're fecked and they know it. It's the same story day after day about Russian collusion and there's no evidence, Trump wasn't even under investigation.

Oh look, more pay for play hot off the press. Yeah standards dude, standards.

http://circa.com/politics/clinton-pressured-bangladesh-prime-minister-personally-to-help-foundation-donor

But, but, Hillary.

"why should I care about morals in the White house?" If you don't know the answer to that question then you have lost yourself.

Hank Scorpio

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

That statement says nothing at all about Trump's associates, employees or family members not being under investigation.

If they had anything on Trump or his associates that was substantial and damaging it would have came out before the election, the Intel agencies have there phonecalls, emails and so on since June of last year. It's not gonna happen.