President 'The Donald' Trump and Surprising Consequences - Mod warning in OP

Leroy42

InTheTrees wrote: »

I dont quite see how you make the jump from the length of time the investigations are taking to thinking that means they have "poor" evidence.

Well what is that you want? You want the investigations to stop and their evidence to be produced right now?

You want a time limit on investigations?

I used to be of that view, that if there was evidence then produce it. But having discussed it on here and seeing how Trump and the WH and the GOP as so adept at twisting everything it is clear that everything needs to be in place to remove any wiggle room.

Given sight of partial evidence, possibles will undoubtedy lead to cries of foul from the WH, claims that it doesn't prove anything and then it will be dismissed. If it is then brought up a few weeks later they will simply claim they already dealt with that.

So I think that the investigators need to have their ducks in a row prior to going ahead. And the latest event, firing Comey, indicates that Trump is quite able to create his own storms when he wants.

Akrasia

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

I'd agree with you if it wasn't for Wikileaks exposing major news outlets being in bed with the democrats. It wasn't that long they were reporting he had less than a 5% chance to win the election.

There are some media outlets that are 'liberal' there are others that are 'conservative' including Fox news, the number one cable news network. Quit being such a baby and complaining that the 'msm' are treating you unfairly

He has said some stupid sh?t and should rightly be called on it, but saying everything he says is a lie is just complete exaggeration, it's all blown out of proportion.

He is a proven liar, a proven pathological liar. Everything he says isn't a lie, but enough of the things are lies that he has lost any benefit of the doubt on any controversial claims he makes.

He even tried to tell the economist magazine that he invented the phrase 'prime the pump' a few days ago. When someone tells you to your face a lie so obvious that it is impossible to hide, you suddenly get to decide that nothing else he says can be trusted.

Two things he should have never said once he got in was the voter fraud allegations, and using the word wiretapping over the unmasking of the Trump campaign. The rest, meh.

He does bring it on himself though, he hits back when he gets attacked and there's probably nothing the media and Democrats alike want more than to bring him down no matter the cost, and that's shown in the desperation of their reporting and the calling for impeachment.

But yet, at the very bottom of it all, of all the shouting and hysteria, no evidence of wrongdoing.

The FBI investigation is ongoing and a grand jury is being assembled and supoenas have been issued to key figures in the Trump administration and campaign.

It's a bit early to presume that there is no evidence of wrongdoing. Trump is only in office for less than 5 months.

Leroy42

B0jangles wrote: »

https://twitter.com/davidfrum/status/862602998891073536

Those sneaky Russians!!!

I really don't understand this.

I get it that Trump is new and surrounded himself with new people, but how can the secret service etc be so shoddy.

I also cannot believe that this is not a bigger issue. Russia basically sent an unauthorised person into the WH and got to stand in the Oval office, 10 feet from the POTUS. It is an alarming breach in security and not a peep out of anyone other than a bit of laughter

NinjaKirby

hmmm wrote: »

This is the only record I could find of some fascinating testimony given a month ago. See 2.50 onwards in particular. I don't want to veer into the Conspiracy forum (this is being discussed openly in the US congress sessions), but think about the threads on Boards about how the EU is finished "any day now" and other similar threads about how we cannot place trust in any of our politicians.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIt2VixVgAs

Wow. This is fascinating.

Something that strikes me is that we seem to be pretending that it's somehow only the Russians that are participating in these apparently highly successful tactics.

If this stuff works this well then there is NO WAY that others are not doing the exact same stuff.

If we are talking about things like hashtags and tweets having this much power then basically anyone with enough money could "influence" an election.

Personally, I am very suspicions of people calling "fake news". I noticed even the head of FIFA was using the phrase yesterday to defend that organisation (which is notorious for being corrupt).

I think conspiracy is a feature of politics anyway so I wouldn't think it's irrelevant. Certainly the idea of a Russian conspiracy backing Trump seems to be pretty widely accepted.

Kitsunegari

demfad wrote: »

This is complete and deliberate disinformation.

There were many many articles about Trumps ties to Russian criminals, about the money laundering through Trump Soho and other Trump projects, about campaign manager Paul Manafort's ties to Yanukovitz, Firtash and Putin, about accusations sexual assaults against multiple women and children, about atleast one FISA warrant against the Trump team etc. etc.

It was drowned out by the Hilary email dumps and by Trump and his team using Russian active measures by amplifying those emails real and fake.

Any time big news comes out, you and posters like you deliberatly post disinformation to drown out real debate here. You have said multiple times without substantiation now that no evidence of collusion with Russia exists.

You wont succeed in what you are trying to do on this thread.

You've also accused me of spreading disinformation and when I picked you up on it you didn't bother replying.

The investigation is into Russian collusion not into Trump's business dealings in the past. The information that came out before the election doesn't implicate Trump in collusion. That was Hank's point but as usual the strawman argument comes out and the goalposts are moved to make a completely irrelevant point.

Akrasia

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

I wrote that but I didn't believe it was the main reason Trump fired Comey, I used it as a argument to defend Trumps decision since that's what it was intended for.

I've be saying it since election day the Russian collusion story is fabricated so I'll take what I can get to try and disprove it.

But that's fundamentally dishonest.

You're putting forward arguments that you don't believe are true just because you think it strengthens your position.

InTheTrees

Kitsunegari wrote: »

The investigation is into Russian collusion not into Trump's business dealings in the past.

They're absolutely investigating trump's past business dealings as part of the russian investigation.

Yesterday there was talk of his casino the Taj Mahal, that was fined three times for money laundering activities.

Professor Moriarty

Just breaking: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39899542

Trump warns Comey about leaking information. By tweet, naturally.

Begs the question: If there's nothing to leak then what is Trump worried about?

ECO_Mental

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Just breaking: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39899542

Trump warns Comey about leaking information. By tweet, naturally.

Begs the question: If there's nothing to leak then what is Trump worried about?

eay he has been on a twitter storm for the past hour or so, even bringing up a Rosie O'Donnell tweet for 6 months ago. Oh he also want to stop all press briefings as he says that his staff are too busy to get everything right all the time...

Does he not have anything else to do during the day besides tweeting?? keep on saying it hes a "man child" cannot wait to see him in jail

mcmoustache

Akrasia wrote: »

But that's fundamentally dishonest.

You're putting forward arguments that you don't believe are true just because you think it strengthens your position.

It's the same reason for the posting of the feinstein/blitzer video. He knows it doesn't say what he claims it does but he'll post it anyway.

As I said before, anyone who's OK with or can look past the blatant dishonesty of Trump obviously places little value in honesty as a virtue.

BorneTobyWilde

''Better hope there are no tapes Comney ! ''

Is that a threat. It come across as a threat.

hmmm

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

''Better hope there are no tapes Comney ! ''

Is that a threat. It come across as a threat.

It couldn't be more clearly a threat. The guy has lost all sense of what position he is in - he still thinks he's CEO of some Casino company and is lecturing his staff.

demfad

Kitsunegari wrote: »

You've also accused me of spreading disinformation and when I picked you up on it you didn't bother replying.

The investigation is into Russian collusion not into Trump's business dealings in the past. The information that came out before the election doesn't implicate Trump in collusion. That was Hank's point but as usual the strawman argument comes out and the goalposts are moved to make a completely irrelevant point.

This was "Hanks point"

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

If they had anything on Trump or his associates that was substantial and damaging it would have came out before the election, the Intel agencies have there phonecalls, emails and so on since June of last year. It's not gonna happen.

So ANYTHING on Trumps associates says Hank, not just collusion as you said he said. = STRAWMAN.

But ill waste my time by answering you for fear your baseless statement remains unchallenged otherwise.

The FISA warrant came out BEFORE the election. This is a Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act warrant and allows the FBI to monitor foreign spies and American agents of foreign influence. This relates to Trump Russia.

Paul Manaforts comprehensive links to Russia and contacts with Russian intel came out BEFORE the election. He had to resign his position as Trump campaign manager as a result.

Mike Flynn's connections to Russia and his appearance at an RT 10th anniversary event and payment for a lecture to Russian secret service were known BEFORE the election.

Carter Page's movements in Russia including meetings with Igor Sechin, CEO of Rosneft and with the Russian official charged with overseeing the 2016 US election were all known and reported before the election.

The Russian money laundering and loans are relevant because it puts Trump as in with Russian criminality and banking. Semion Mogilevich Russia's boss of bosses who was the boss of the lieutenants that Trump dealt with is directly connected to Russia. Deutsche bank who loaned directly to Trump, was in trouble for money laundering relating to Russia. Trump loaned off Russian banks when after he went bankrupt in 2008.
No one like Trump loans billions from Russia without Putins say so.

The Republican platform on Ukraine at the RNC was changed to be more pro Russian: known and reported before the election etc. etc.

There was so much known and suspected that the Republicans paid an ex British agent to dig deeper compile a dossier on the stuff.

To claim that there was nothing about collusion pre election is basically a bald faced lie.

namloc1980

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

''Better hope there are no tapes Comney ! ''

Is that a threat. It come across as a threat.

..

Threatening and attempting to intimidate the man you just fired and a potential witness in any future investigation. What is wrong with this guy? He has absolutely no sense of what his position is. And "tapes" - is he admitting that he's wiretapping?

hmmm

namloc1980 wrote: »

..

Threatening and attempting to intimidate the man you just fired and a potential witness in any future investigation. What is wrong with this guy? He has absolutely no sense of what his position is. And "tapes" - is he admitting that he's wiretapping?

And why is he issuing these threats in public? Does he think it makes him look like a big man?

The guy can send any number of his cronies to tell Comey in private to keep his mouth shut.

He's a child pretending to be a big man.

demfad

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

If they had anything on Trump or his associates that was substantial and damaging it would have came out before the election, the Intel agencies have there phonecalls, emails and so on since June of last year. It's not gonna happen.

hmmm wrote: »

And why is he issuing these threats in public? Does he think it makes him look like a big man?

The guy can send any number of his cronies to tell Comey in private to keep his mouth shut.

He's a child pretending to be a big man.

He is an autocrat. He does this because he knows he can get away with it.
The Republican party's reaction to him firing Comey seems to be a little bit of hand wringing but no action.

This is the way autocrats/ would be dictators operate: They are all over whatever you can get away with. Once its accepted its a new norm.

They didn't have a problem with him threatening Sally Yates, so its a green light to threaten everybody else.

Igotadose

namloc1980 wrote: »

..

Threatening and attempting to intimidate the man you just fired and a potential witness in any future investigation. What is wrong with this guy? He has absolutely no sense of what his position is. And "tapes" - is he admitting that he's wiretapping?

Mocking Watergate. President Trump has no 'regulator' on his mouth, so mocking a great tragedy - yes, a tragedy - in America's history is fine by him.

Degradation, thy name is Donald J. Trump.

demfad

namloc1980 wrote: »

CNN. One of their reporters tweeted it hours ago @evanperez.

This is what the director of the centre said. The FBI gave no comment.

The Strategic Campaign Group (raided by FBI/US marshalls last night) held these two superpacs:

"Bolton for America Superpac" and "Bolton for America Pac".
This relates to John Bolton one of the possibilities for SOS for Trump.
The main sponsor of these superpacs is one Robert Mercer. He and his daughter Rebecca sponsored the Superpacs behind Trump, bringing Bannon, Kelly-Anne Conway and Dave Bossie amonst others into the Trump campaign team. They have long standing relationships with Jeff Sessions, Mike Flynn, Pence.

They own Cambridge Analytica, and half of Breitbart news. CA was the big data firm behind Trump and Brexit. So was AggregateIQ, also seemingly Mercer controled. Infact the official leave campaign paid half its monies to AggregateIQ.

If Mercer and Cambridge Analytica will be downed then this is bad news for Trump, Putin and Brexit and quite good news for democracies everywhere.

Professor Moriarty

Leroy42 wrote: »

Yeah, but how the hell do you prove that!

Witness protection schemes, intercepted emails, taped phone calls...

ThisRegard

https://twitter.com/AP/status/863032385029451777

Well ok then, none whatsoever, apart from this, this and this.....

(apparently some of the exceptions are property sales, beauty pageants and the likes. What about the years prior?)

Phonehead

ThisRegard wrote: »

https://twitter.com/AP/status/863032385029451777

Well ok then, none whatsoever, apart from this, this and this.....

(apparently some of the exceptions are property sales, beauty pageants and the likes. What about the years prior?)

LOL property sales......... and his main business is property. It's just farcical that people who still defend him buy this stuff. In other news, Ted Bundy never murdered anyone, with few exceptions :P:D

InTheTrees

ThisRegard wrote: »

https://twitter.com/AP/status/863032385029451777

Well ok then, none whatsoever, apart from this, this and this.....

(apparently some of the exceptions are property sales, beauty pageants and the likes. What about the years prior?)

Property sales are one of the main methods used by criminals to launder money using shell corporations.

wes

ThisRegard wrote: »

https://twitter.com/AP/status/863032385029451777

Well ok then, none whatsoever, apart from this, this and this.....

(apparently some of the exceptions are property sales, beauty pageants and the likes. What about the years prior?)

So he did have dealings with Russia....... Does Trump really think people are that stupid?

demfad

ThisRegard wrote: »

https://twitter.com/AP/status/863032385029451777

Well ok then, none whatsoever, apart from this, this and this.....

(apparently some of the exceptions are property sales, beauty pageants and the likes. What about the years prior?)

Trump Lawyer is Michael Cohen?
If so, he is a suspect and under investigation for collusion/treason.

oscarBravo

namloc1980 wrote: »

..

Am I the only one who reads this as a strong hint to Comey that Trump taped the conversation?

ThisRegard wrote: »

https://twitter.com/AP/status/863032385029451777

Oh, his tax returns show that, do they? What a pity there's no way to independently verify that.

ThisRegard

demfad wrote: »

Trump Lawyer is Michael Cohen?
If so, he is a suspect and under investigation for collusion/treason.

Dunno, but really? You couldn't right this as fiction and get away with it.

demfad

demfad wrote: »

This is what the director of the centre said. The FBI gave no comment.

The Strategic Campaign Group (raided by FBI/US marshalls last night) held these two superpacs:

"Bolton for America Superpac" and "Bolton for America Pac".
This relates to John Bolton one of the possibilities for SOS for Trump.
The main sponsor of these superpacs is one Robert Mercer. He and his daughter Rebecca sponsored the Superpacs behind Trump, bringing Bannon, Kelly-Anne Conway and Dave Bossie amonst others into the Trump campaign team. They have long standing relationships with Jeff Sessions, Mike Flynn, Pence.

They own Cambridge Analytica, and half of Breitbart news. CA was the big data firm behind Trump and Brexit. So was AggregateIQ, also seemingly Mercer controled. Infact the official leave campaign paid half its monies to AggregateIQ.

If Mercer and Cambridge Analytica will be downed then this is bad news for Trump, Putin and Brexit and quite good news for democracies everywhere.

Some of the other groups/firms under The Strategic Campaign Group:
This conspiracy may go deep into the Republican party if this firm was used to launder Russian money into it.

aloyisious

Leroy42 wrote: »

Yeah, but how the hell do you prove that!

The 702 authorisation, [last renewed approx 10 years ago and due for renewal in Dec] which authorises the interception of electronic transmissions from Russia, mentioned by Gen Clapper before the Senate hearing on Monday's hearing with Sally Yates. It doesn't give permission for direct surveillance on US transmissions in itself but if the incoming words from Russia are picked up and recorded then the rest is history as the US Int people are as capable of putting the whole together as the Russian Int people are.

The 702 surveillance is ongoing and the wrong words recorded now have as much relevance as those from the past. So much as a whisper of relief about something not being picked up on will send the hounds back to the stored discs. Don might be right about his conversations not been safe, it's just not the Dems he has to be worried about, words on a Russian intercept can be just as bad so it's no wonder Don wants done with the investigations. His Republican friends can stymie the senate hearing with the right questions fed to witnesses.

aloyisious

Leroy42 wrote: »

I really don't understand this.

I get it that Trump is new and surrounded himself with new people, but how can the secret service etc be so shoddy.

I also cannot believe that this is not a bigger issue. Russia basically sent an unauthorised person into the WH and got to stand in the Oval office, 10 feet from the POTUS. It is an alarming breach in security and not a peep out of anyone other than a bit of laughter

Don's the boss, probably over-ruled the Sec Service and the White House Police worries about his guests in his official residence.

demfad

ThisRegard wrote: »

Dunno, but really? You couldn't right this as fiction and get away with it.

Yep. This is the Steele dossier re Cohen.






Also, He was up to his neck giving four stories of this bizarre meeting with Felix Sater (Bayrock, Trump Soho) and a Ukranian politician (now under investigation for trason at home) with a peace plan for Mike Flynn delivered by sealed parcel to his desk. Flynn never got it (fired the day before)

http://uk.businessinsider.com/trump-lawyer-delivered-michael-flynn-plan-to-lift-sanctions-on-russia-2017-2?r=US&IR=T

Cohen swore he never went to Europe to meet Russians. His plane records show otherwise. It was revealed 2 days ago he uses two names..so the passport records might be interesting for Micheal Hacking.