President 'The Donald' Trump and Surprising Consequences - Mod warning in OP

ThisRegard

Kitsunegari wrote: »

There is no such thing as Trumpcare. It's called the AHCA.

People in glass houses and all that

Kitsunegari wrote: »

I was heavily critical of Obamacare ....

Kitsunegari wrote: »

But Obama was nothing but a charlatan and many people bought his message, including me, but he proved himself to be all talk no action. Trump is promising the people change and, whether we like it or not, he's the only candidate that can offer change.
........Obamacare was a feeble start and is highly flawed and will need to be heavily amended to function properly. One of Obama's greatest successes may have been to speak to Trump about keeping some of the Obamacare benefits such as insurance for pre existing conditions and allowing kids to stay on parents policy's until their 26.

Kitsunegari wrote: »

Obamacare was a good start but it's a highly flawed system. Like most things from Obama, the idea was good but it was poorly thought out. Let's see what the GOP want to do to Obamacare before we condemn them. Trump seems to want to keep some of the better aspects of Obamacare so let's not lose the run of ourselves just yet.

Kitsunegari

ThisRegard wrote: »

People in glass houses and all that

So, you've proven that I've referred to ACA as Obamacare, but not that I support AHCA (""TRUMPCARE"").

Well done you. Here's a big e-rep token for you.

ThisRegard

Kitsunegari wrote: »

So, you've proven that I've referred to ACA as Obamacare, but not that I support AHCA (""TRUMPCARE"").

I've proved you can be a hypocrite.

Anyway, back to the real news. Headline writers in the US papers (we still don't know if they're on your list of approved sources) are having a field day, using the Russian released photos of the 3 guys in the Whitehouse, talking about how there were 3 spies there that day.

Akrasia

jooksavage wrote: »

This is exactly it. Trump is not a conservative. He's anything but. He told Fox News that the checks and balances system enshrined in the constitution is "an archaic system ? It?s really a bad thing for the country". Being an authoritarian doesn't make him a conservative any more than it makes a him communist. And the Republicans enablers doing verbal gymnastics in an attempt to translate his statements into something approaching acceptable should never be forgiven for this betrayal.

The level of discourse in the GOP has been in freefall for decades. Ronald Reagan would have been pilloried as a pinko leftie by the standards of the most recent GOP primaries.

Chomsky is making a bit of a revival recently, but its hard to argue against his statement that the republican party is one of the most destructive institutions in the history of the world (if only because of their deliberate de-railing of attempts to tackle global warming, before we even start talking about their aggressive foreign policy)

Kitsunegari

ThisRegard wrote: »

Kitsunegari wrote: »

So, you've proven that I've referred to ACA as Obamacare, but not that I support AHCA (""TRUMPCARE"").
/QUOTE]

I've proved you can be a hypocrite.

Another, enlightening contribution from you. Do you have anything to debate or is it just continual nonsense and one-upmanship that you try to engage in?

A hypocrite no more than yourself.

ancapailldorcha

Kitsunegari wrote: »

So, you've proven that I've referred to ACA as Obamacare, but not that I support AHCA (""TRUMPCARE"").

Well done you. Here's a big e-rep token for you.

From what I can see, you are adding nothing to this thread. Any more nonsense posts and you will be sanctioned.

ThisRegard wrote: »

I've proved you can be a hypocrite.

Anyway, back to the real news. Headline writers in the US papers (we still don't know if they're on your list of approved sources) are having a field day, using the Russian released photos of the 3 guys in the Whitehouse, talking about how there were 3 spies there that day.

Report posts you feel are objectionable please instead of throwing out insults.

ThisRegard

President is up folks and watching his morning pictures.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/864436162567471104

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/864438529472049152

So is he actually confirming the story, and contradicting the recent Whitehouse claims?

seamus

Trump using his personal Twitter account to comment on what's going on is like Enda Kenny ringing Joe Duffy to have an aul chat and a bit of a rant.

It's bizarre. Is there any president who has been so utterly unleashed and unfiltered as this one?

Professor Moriarty

Kitsunegari wrote: »

There is no such thing as Trumpcare. It's called the AHCA. I don't support it. Can you stop making up complete nonsense? Where have I said that I support the AHCA?

Why are you lying to try and make an argument? We've nearly reached rock bottom.

Let me help. When somebody makes an argument that you disagree with, you blame the media for misrepresenting the truth. It's kind of like a 'get out of jail free' card for you.

The only conclusion to be drawn is that you either rely on particular news sources or none at all. By not defining which media you consider to be reliable and not reliable (you have already stated that you don't trust the Guardian, CNN, NYT and Wapo), your arguments are fundamentally flawed as other posters cannot verify the truth of your posts. Everything you say is simply opinion unsupported by fact. This, unfortunately, is undermining your credibility.

Why not simply answer this question:

Please state which news outlets you consider to be reliable.

Christy42

ThisRegard wrote: »

President is up folks and watching his morning pictures.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/864436162567471104

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/864438529472049152

So is he actually confirming the story, and contradicting the recent Whitehouse claims?

A hahaha hahaha. Brilliant. His aides must be fuming at the amount of work he is putting them through.

Legally he is correct and he has every right to declassify information but he did so on a whim and in all likelihood without realising whst he was saying.

Will the GOP maintain loyalty and announce that the president should be going over the heads of all his intellegence chiefs and betraying the trust places in the US by its allies.

I have to imagine all foreign agencies will be screening the information they pass on to the states far more strictly if any of it could end up declassified when Trump ends up in a mood.

Akrasia

There are a lot of very worried field agents collecting valuable intelligence against ISIS wondering if they're going to have their identities compromised because this man doesn't know when to keep his mouth shut.

There are proper channels for sharing intelligence, blurting it out like an idiot is not one of them.

aloyisious

The best lesson Don has learned from the job is that it's not as easy as he thought, he hasn't fully learned it though and the US is suffering from his ongoing failures.

McMaster and Co are trying to apply damage-control and try avoid the obvious; that Isis is as capable as anyone running a worldwide military operation of doing a deconstruct, a workback, on what Don told the Russians to see where the leak came from at it's end. Isis and its allies are not totally full of dumbos.

Some-one working, probably deep-cover on the ground, for a friendly-to-the US agency got the info at personal risk and Don has basically given Isis a statement that there is a source within it leaking info to its enemy on its future bombing planning.

It's just not5 funny anymore that Don can get away with incredibly stupid actions with throw-away excuses "I have the right to do it". I can imagine that if a foreign head of state did the same to a US agent, he'd be calling for a head on a plate, using the word treason.

RobertKK

mcmoustache wrote: »

I'm curious as to what you think of his presidency so far - mainly because you seem to be a relatively straight shooter in earlier parts of the thread.

I think his inexperience is showing strongly at this point.
Stumbling from one controversy to the next.

Personally I wish the US and Russia would share intelligence on ISIS as both countries face the same threat, but we still live in the past.

The war with the media was a very bad idea, while the president has power, so does the media and the media will be there long after he is gone.

His travel ban failed, firstly US "allies" who are the biggest reason for ISIS were not on the list and while some were arguing it was discriminatory, it left others asking where is Saudi Arabia and Qatar on that list?
I think we know why he wanted the travel ban, the non detectable laptop bombs, which however way one looks at it, is a scary proposition.

People say he watches a lot of TV news, but if anyone visited President's Johnson's Texas White House, they would see he had several TV in most rooms he occupied or placed so he could see the TV if in a different room. While on a tour there we were told President Johnson would ring up the TV station and complain if he was getting what he perceived to be negative coverage.
I don't think the obsession with TV news and how he is portrayed in the media is unique to Trump.

o think people are wrong who believe the US must have bad relations with Russia, or China for that matter. It is better for all of us if they simply got along and there is a positive relationship it appears at this stage between Xi Jinping and Trump. Whether this lasts who knows.
Trump needs China to deal with the North Korean threat, otherwise God knows where that mess end up.

He has not been doing a good job so far.
Far too many negatives among the few and far between positives.

ThisRegard

RobertKK wrote: »

Personally I wish the US and Russia would share intelligence on ISIS as both countries face the same threat, but we still live in the past.

At an operation level I'd be surprised if they weren't.

demfad

Leroy42 wrote: »

I clearly mentioned the breaking of trust, even saying that the real worry here for the US is that this story is seen as true and people are willing to accept it. That in itself tells you how Trump is seen across the world. The fact that the WP felt the ability to post this story, I mean think about it. They basically called the president out on handing over top secret info and they went with it. Pretty big call but A) their sources seem legit (the WH has not refuted the basic tenet of the story) and b) they know that they are are pretty solid ground in terms of the likelyhood of this happening.

This story has been verified by Reuters and NYTimes. It doesnt hurt Trump's reputation that much which is already in tatters. It hurts the US ability to share intelligence with its allies which is a massive coup for them.

Lets look at the optics:

• US journalists banned from Oval Office
• Russian photographers flood internet with pictures of chuckle brothers Lavrov, Kislyak and Trump.
• Trump leaks CODED Intel to Russians.
• Massive scandal with Russians gaining valuable Intel and Amercian trust shot with their allies.

Trump is guarding a massive secret. Most of us know what it is. To conclude the above outcome is coincidence doesnt wash anymore. There are no coincidences when it comes to trumps dealings with Russia and the Russian investigation.

HalloweenJack

seamus wrote: »

It's bizarre. Is there any president who has been so utterly unleashed and unfiltered as this one?

The Phillipines guy but he doesn't have as much influence on global matters.

demfad

RobertKK wrote: »

o think people are wrong who believe the US must have bad relations with Russia, or China for that matter. It is better for all of us if they simply got along and there is a positive relationship it appears at this stage between Xi Jinping and Trump. Whether this lasts who knows.
.

Putin murders journalists, rival politicians for his own political gain. He is a tyrant who wishes to destroy democracies around the world to improve and protect his dictatorial standing in Russia. Every recent president has tried to 'reset' with him. It doesn't work.
Russia needs to be treated as the USSR until Putin is deposed. After Trump and his team are removed (and prosecuted) the US and EU must deal with Putin.

cnocbui

I could never understand why the US populace voted for Trump, given he proved himself to be a traitor during the election campaign, endorsing Russian efforts to subvert the political process.

Now he's continuing to be a traitor while in office - big surprise.

demfad

Akrasia wrote: »

There are a lot of very worried field agents collecting valuable intelligence against ISIS wondering if they're going to have their identities compromised because this man doesn't know when to keep his mouth shut.

There are proper channels for sharing intelligence, blurting it out like an idiot is not one of them.

Just to be clear. That was coded intel from an Ally. There is NO proper channel for sharing that intel with Russia without crushing that ally's trust (and all other allies). You DO NOT share coded intel with other States period.

aloyisious

I saw on a F/B page that Ann Coulter said she was ready to dump Trump so, for accuracy, went for confirmation from other sources. Hopefully the sources I've posted below are ok. I'm mindful that Ann wrote a book about Don: In Don We Trust: The New American Revolution.

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwju4uCvwvTTAhUoIcAKHUBzC04QFggsMAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mediaite.com%2Fonline%2Fann-coulter-is-prepared-to-dump-trump-if-he-doesnt-keep-his-promises-im-out%2F&usg=AFQjCNFMho7wUH0q20OxMdFfwy8zJxO9Ug

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwju4uCvwvTTAhUoIcAKHUBzC04QFggyMAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theblaze.com%2Fnews%2F2017%2F05%2F15%2Fann-coulter-im-ready-to-jump-ship-on-president-trump%2F&usg=AFQjCNHylpU5LsTFOip0ntP3ljcRVuWUkw

Billy86

aloyisious wrote: »

I saw on a F/B page that Ann Coulter said she was ready to dump Trump so, for accuracy, went for confirmation from other sources. Hopefully the sources I've posted below are ok. I'm mindful that Ann wrote a book about Don: In Don We Trust: The New American Revolution.

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwju4uCvwvTTAhUoIcAKHUBzC04QFggsMAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mediaite.com%2Fonline%2Fann-coulter-is-prepared-to-dump-trump-if-he-doesnt-keep-his-promises-im-out%2F&usg=AFQjCNFMho7wUH0q20OxMdFfwy8zJxO9Ug

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwju4uCvwvTTAhUoIcAKHUBzC04QFggyMAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theblaze.com%2Fnews%2F2017%2F05%2F15%2Fann-coulter-im-ready-to-jump-ship-on-president-trump%2F&usg=AFQjCNHylpU5LsTFOip0ntP3ljcRVuWUkw

Meh, the opinions of her and the English paedophilia supporter are about as worthwhile as Katie Hopkins to be honest.

rossie1977

cnocbui wrote: »

I could never understand why the US populace voted for Trump, given he proved himself to be a traitor during the election campaign, endorsing Russian efforts to subvert the political process.

Now he's continuing to be a traitor while in office - big surprise.

Half the country would rather see the Russian flag flying over the white house than have a Democrat in power ever again. You have white supremacists chanting 'Russia is our friend' at rallies in 2017.

Bobeagleburger

The net is closing in

Bobeagleburger

rossie1977 wrote: »

Half the country would rather see the Russian flag flying over the white house than have a Democrat in power ever again. You have white supremacists chanting 'Russia is our friend' at rallies in 2017.

5 lines of absolute hyperbole. Cmon, that's a ridiculous exaggeration.

Hank Scorpio

Ye, so there's this.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/05/16/slain-dnc-staffer-had-contact-with-wikileaks-investigator-says.html

The Democratic National Committee staffer who was gunned down on July 10 on a Washington, D.C., street just steps from his home had leaked thousands of internal emails to WikiLeaks, law enforcement sources told Fox News.

The revelation is consistent with the findings of Rod Wheeler, a former DC homicide detective and Fox News contributor and whose private investigation firm was hired by Rich’s family to probe the case. Rich was shot from behind in the wee hours, but was not robbed.

"My investigation up to this point shows there was some degree of email exchange between Seth Rich and WikiLeaks,” Wheeler said. “I do believe that the answers to who murdered Seth Rich sits on his computer on a shelf at the DC police or FBI headquarters."

The federal investigator, who requested anonymity, said 44,053 emails and 17,761 attachments between Democratic National Committee leaders, spanning from January 2015 through late May 2016, were transferred from Rich to MacFadyen before May 21."

Snickers Man

Brilliant tweet from Edward Snowden:
"Next time somebody says revealing unconstitutional mass surveillance to the press crossed a line , show them this..."

mcmoustache

RobertKK wrote: »

I think people are wrong who believe the US must have bad relations with Russia, or China for that matter. It is better for all of us if they simply got along and there is a positive relationship it appears at this stage between Xi Jinping and Trump. Whether this lasts who knows.
Trump needs China to deal with the North Korean threat, otherwise God knows where that mess end up.

I don't think people are saying that that their relationship must be bad for the sake of it. I think it's more that the Russian meddling in their electoral process shouldn't be given a pass.

RobertKK

demfad wrote: »

Putin murders journalists, rival politicians for his own political gain. He is a tyrant who wishes to destroy democracies around the world to improve and protect his dictatorial standing in Russia. Every recent president has tried to 'reset' with him. It doesn't work.
Russia needs to be treated as the USSR until Putin is deposed. After Trump and his team are removed (and prosecuted) the US and EU must deal with Putin.

The US has supported coups against democracies, invasions to try put in a puppet, supported terrorist organisations if they share the same goal.

Sometimes there is not much difference between them.

mcmoustache

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

Ye, so there's this.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/05/16/slain-dnc-staffer-had-contact-with-wikileaks-investigator-says.html

The Democratic National Committee staffer who was gunned down on July 10 on a Washington, D.C., street just steps from his home had leaked thousands of internal emails to WikiLeaks, law enforcement sources told Fox News.

The revelation is consistent with the findings of Rod Wheeler, a former DC homicide detective and Fox News contributor and whose private investigation firm was hired by Rich’s family to probe the case. Rich was shot from behind in the wee hours, but was not robbed.

"My investigation up to this point shows there was some degree of email exchange between Seth Rich and WikiLeaks,” Wheeler said. “I do believe that the answers to who murdered Seth Rich sits on his computer on a shelf at the DC police or FBI headquarters."

The federal investigator, who requested anonymity, said 44,053 emails and 17,761 attachments between Democratic National Committee leaders, spanning from January 2015 through late May 2016, were transferred from Rich to MacFadyen before May 21."

This has been doing the rounds on Breitbart and The_Donald all morning. It was only a matter of time that it showed up in a Hillary Clinton thread.

In any case, as to your point, are you trying to suggest that the Russians had him killed to cover their tracks or something?

mcmoustache

RobertKK wrote: »

The US has supported coups against democracies, invasions to try put in a puppet, supported terrorist organisations if they share the same goal.

Sometimes there is not much difference between them.

That doesn't mean that they need to sit there and take it when it happens to them.