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President 'The Donald' Trump and Surprising Consequences - Mod warning in OP

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    #7862
    demfad
    Registered Users Posts: 3,182 ✭✭✭demfad


    Hank Scorpio wrote: »
    Personal insults to point score are a revealing insight of a persons character. If you want a list of pros and cons for each candidate ( Trump + HRC ) it might take a while and end up being counter productive. The Clinton cash book is a decent place to start.

    The Clinton's have been involved in dozens of scandals over the last couple of decades. Trump was new and worth a shot for some. So far it hasn't worked out, I'm ok with that.

    The Clinton Cash book was produced by one Stephen K Bannon and funded by the grotesque Mercers who backed Trump and Brexit. It is half-truth, propaganda and outright lies.
    Like Bannon, Mercer is mysoginist and racist and backers of the 'blunt vessel' Trump to push their fascist agendas. The book has no credibility.


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    #7863
    jobbridge4life
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    demfad wrote: »
    The Clinton Cash book was produced by one Stephen K Bannon and funded by the grotesque Mercers who backed Trump and Brexit. It is half-truth, propaganda and outright lies.
    Like Bannon, Mercer is mysoginist and racist and backers of the 'blunt vessel' Trump to push their fascist agendas. The book has no credibility.

    Doesn't need credibility merely the credulous.


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    #7864
    mcmoustache
    Registered Users Posts: 7,236 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    Hank Scorpio wrote: »
    Ye, so there's this.

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/05/16/slain-dnc-staffer-had-contact-with-wikileaks-investigator-says.html

    The Democratic National Committee staffer who was gunned down on July 10 on a Washington, D.C., street just steps from his home had leaked thousands of internal emails to WikiLeaks, law enforcement sources told Fox News.

    The revelation is consistent with the findings of Rod Wheeler, a former DC homicide detective and Fox News contributor and whose private investigation firm was hired by Rich’s family to probe the case. Rich was shot from behind in the wee hours, but was not robbed.

    "My investigation up to this point shows there was some degree of email exchange between Seth Rich and WikiLeaks,” Wheeler said. “I do believe that the answers to who murdered Seth Rich sits on his computer on a shelf at the DC police or FBI headquarters."

    The federal investigator, who requested anonymity, said 44,053 emails and 17,761 attachments between Democratic National Committee leaders, spanning from January 2015 through late May 2016, were transferred from Rich to MacFadyen before May 21."


    I knew that this had a whiff of pizza-gate off it.
    Wheeler instead said he only learned about the possible existence of such evidence through the reporter he spoke to for the FoxNews.com story. He explained that the comments he made to WTTG-TV were intended to simply preview Fox News' Tuesday story. The WTTG-TV news director did not respond to multiple requests for comment.
    "I only got that [information] from the reporter at Fox News," Wheeler told CNN.
    Asked about a quote attributed to him in the Fox News story in which he said his "investigation up to this point shows there was some degree of email exchange between Seth Rich and Wikileaks," Wheeler said he was referring to information that had already been reported in the media.


    This isn't the first time you served up some alt-right conspiracy theory while running around yelling "Fake News".


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    #7865
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,452 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Some clown on SOR on RTE this morning claiming, DT was within his constitutional 1st Amendment rights, as an American citizen, to voice an opinion on Flynn to Comey.

    Some ludicrous defences still being put forward for Trump.


    The GOP really must carry the can on this one. They had a long list of candidates. Trump and Cruz, odious and undesirable. Others mediocre. But they had Kaisch, Jeb Bush, who would have been very acceptable and would have beaten HC out the gate.


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    #7866
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,636 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Water John wrote: »
    The GOP really must carry the can on this one. They had a long list of candidates. Trump and Cruz, odious and undesirable. Others mediocre. But they had Kaisch, Jeb Bush, who would have been very acceptable and would have beaten HC out the gate.

    Is it anything to do with them though? Clearly the GOP never wanted Trump, and in certain cases actively worked against him, but the voters chose him overwhelmingly in the Primaries.

    In their desire to make a change, they went with possibly the worst of all the options. I am all for change, but you can't just hand power over to someone so clearly unsuited for the role.

    US voters were dazzled by promises. Build a wall, drain the swamp, without even bothering to question the rationale of even what the actual outcome of those would look like.

    This whole mess lies squarely with the voters. They will of course blame the parties, the MSM, HC, Russia etc but at the end of the day the voters ticked the box beside his name knowing the risk they were taking.

    It is now down to the GOP to sort out the mess. So far they seem to have little appetite for it though.


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    #7867
    Kitsunegari
    Closed Accounts Posts: 314 ✭✭Kitsunegari


    Water John wrote: »
    Some clown on SOR on RTE this morning claiming, DT was within his constitutional 1st Amendment rights, as an American citizen, to voice an opinion on Flynn to Comey.

    Some ludicrous defences still being put forward for Trump.


    The GOP really must carry the can on this one. They had a long list of candidates. Trump and Cruz, odious and undesirable. Others mediocre. But they had Kaisch, Jeb Bush, who would have been very acceptable and would have beaten HC out the gate.

    You're deluded if you think Jeb Bush or Kaisch could have beaten Clinton. I think regardless of what happens with Trump you will have another dangerous populist candidate if the Dems and GOP don't get their houses in order. Seemingly, nobody in Washington has heard of the backfire effect.


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    #7868
    demfad
    Registered Users Posts: 3,182 ✭✭✭demfad


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    Is it anything to do with them though? Clearly the GOP never wanted Trump, and in certain cases actively worked against him, but the voters chose him overwhelmingly in the Primaries.

    In their desire to make a change, they went with possibly the worst of all the options. I am all for change, but you can't just hand power over to someone so clearly unsuited for the role.

    US voters were dazzled by promises. Build a wall, drain the swamp, without even bothering to question the rationale of even what the actual outcome of those would look like.

    This whole mess lies squarely with the voters. They will of course blame the parties, the MSM, HC, Russia etc but at the end of the day the voters ticked the box beside his name knowing the risk they were taking.

    It is now down to the GOP to sort out the mess. So far they seem to have little appetite for it though.

    The GOP has been deliberately bringing out the worst excesses in racism and misogyny in it's own supporters after Obama was elected and when it was clear (for years) that they would be up against a female candidate.
    They have also set themselves up as the party of the 1% while lying to gain the votes of their voters. They allowed a RW propaganda outfit like Fox news to represent their interests making it easy for an authoritarian who pleased Fox's owner to curry favour.
    The CNP, the .01% who represent US evangelicals and Catholics have behaved dispicably. They know Trumps character and yet were going to use him as a 'blunt Instrument' (Bannon) to get their Christian Law agenda.


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    #7869
    demfad
    Registered Users Posts: 3,182 ✭✭✭demfad


    Water John wrote: »
    Some clown on SOR on RTE this morning claiming, DT was within his constitutional 1st Amendment rights, as an American citizen, to voice an opinion on Flynn to Comey.

    Some ludicrous defences still being put forward for Trump.


    The GOP really must carry the can on this one. They had a long list of candidates. Trump and Cruz, odious and undesirable. Others mediocre. But they had Kaisch, Jeb Bush, who would have been very acceptable and would have beaten HC out the gate.

    I think Irish media demonstrating just how bad it and western media is.
    Matt Cooper have a similar guy on regularly saying nutty far right stuff.
    There doesnt seem to be much onus and responsibility to get at the truth.


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    #7870
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,452 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    The GOP, have allowed themselves be hijacked, in the last ten years.


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    #7871
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,636 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    All true, but the voters let it happen and allowed themselves to be 'bought' with such simple gimmicks as racism and anti-HC rethoric.

    The only good thing that can possibly come out of all this is that voters finally wake up and start demanding service from their representatives (not just in the US).

    No matter what your opinion on HC, there is no way such a professional would have carried the US, so quickly, into being a laughing stock. People can cite all the wrongs with HC all they like, but voters were presented with a choice. Maybe not a choice they would have opted for, but the system is designed to put 2 people in a head to head.

    Had all those that decided not to bother to vote gone for a 3rd party would that make a difference? Had some of the Bernie supporters, who felt so wronged that they lost to HC either not voted for Trump or not at all, would that have made a difference.

    The voters had a stark choice. A woman they didn't like but could easily see she was more than capable of the job, or a loose canon with no substance, no experience, no consistent agenda and seemingly intent on pulling the country as far apart as possible. Millions voted for the latter. They must carry the can for this.


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    #7872
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,636 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    demfad wrote: »
    I think Irish media demonstrating just how bad it and western media is.
    Matt Cooper have a similar guy on regularly saying nutty far right stuff.
    There doesnt seem to be much onus and responsibility to get at the truth.

    I actually think this comes from a sense that they need to be seen to be balanced. Look at the outcry everytime CNN/MSNBC point at something negative about Trump. Look at how the right wind media treats anyone who even dares to suggest that Brexit is not the greatest thing ever.

    So they bring on right wing people to give balance.

    Sometimes you don't need to hear the other side if that side is just wrong. And its not allowing them on that is the problem, their views are given the same weight as actual facts.

    The right wing in US has actually done a great job of making out the the press as somehow the enemy. Personally, I don't mind media bias. It is what it is and most of the time is pretty transparent and I can turn it off. The trick was getting people to think that any negative story was biased and could therefore be ignored for simply not agreeing with a predefined narrative. Voter don't want the hassle of actually doing any thinking for themselves


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    #7873
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,833 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    demfad wrote: »
    The CNP, the .01% who represent US evangelicals and Catholics have behaved dispicably. They know Trumps character and yet were going to use him as a 'blunt Instrument' (Bannon) to get their Christian Law agenda.

    I read a lot of tweets yesterday after the various stories broke and was amazed at the amount of people who are saying that God will keep Trump in the White House in the face of this grand conspiracy to have such a good man ran from the place.


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    #7874
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 29,445 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    I actually think this comes from a sense that they need to be seen to be balanced. Look at the outcry everytime CNN/MSNBC point at something negative about Trump. Look at how the right wind media treats anyone who even dares to suggest that Brexit is not the greatest thing ever.

    So they bring on right wing people to give balance.

    Sometimes you don't need to hear the other side if that side is just wrong. And its not allowing them on that is the problem, their views are given the same weight as actual facts.

    what does 'wrong' mean?


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    #7875
    Trent Houseboat
    Registered Users Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭Trent Houseboat


    demfad wrote:
    The CNP, the .01% who represent US evangelicals and Catholics have behaved dispicably. They know Trumps character and yet were going to use him as a 'blunt Instrument' (Bannon) to get their Christian Law agenda.

    I can't remember who it was recently who said that Mitch McConnell stole the SCOTUS seat, not in the hope that a Republican would win, but in order to insure it. I can't imagine a candidate less appealing to conservative Christians than Trump, but the hope of overturning Roe/Obegerfel was all the encouragement they needed to not stay home.


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    #7876
    jooksavage
    Registered Users Posts: 1,532 ✭✭✭jooksavage


    Just heard Mark Halperin (probably besy known over here from the Circus Sky Atlantic). Says Republicans in Washington have been making noise overnight and all indications are they've arrived at something they can't let slide.

    Interesting to see if WH staffers will be able to keep Trump off Twitter...


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    #7877
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,636 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    what does 'wrong' mean?

    Well yeah, I get that is part of the problem. It is rarely black or white.

    However, in the latest case of Trump giving intel to Russia or asking to Comey to drop an investigation, there really is only one. It is when people can't even bring themselves to see the reality instead of sticking to the 'party line' that when they should be called out on it.


  • Options
    #7878
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 29,445 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    Well yeah, I get that is part of the problem. It is rarely black or white.

    However, in the latest case of Trump giving intel to Russia or asking to Comey to drop an investigation, there really is only one. It is when people can't even bring themselves to see the reality instead of sticking to the 'party line' that when they should be called out on it.

    the republican party will ditch trump when they seem fit, never underestimate the power of that party


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    #7879
    BorneTobyWilde
    Registered Users Posts: 36,079 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    I would think every President has used his power to influence others, the trouble is these ''others'' would have had the Presidents back.
    The trouble with Trump is everything he does or says is not in confidence, even his staff are obviously leaking info on him. The conversations he had with Comney should have been private even if they were wrong. Comney did not come out next day after those conversations, he played along. It's only when Comney was fired that is came out, so Comney is in wrong too. Had he not been fired would he still be keeping all these conversations quite, yes, course he would.
    Politics is a messy game, do people really believe that Enda Kenny, or Angela Merkcal have no secrets that if they came out they'd be guilty of crimes, of course they do. Look at Putin, a serial killer of anyone who opposes him, still he shakes hands with all the EU leaders and smiles like he's some angel.


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    #7880
    Kitsunegari
    Closed Accounts Posts: 314 ✭✭Kitsunegari


    Leroy42 wrote: »

    The voters had a stark choice. A woman they didn't like but could easily see she was more than capable of the job, or a loose canon with no substance, no experience, no consistent agenda and seemingly intent and pulling the country as far apart as possible. Millions voted for the latter. They must carry the can for this.

    That's an incredible line to take. Yes, blame the voters and not the system which produces both corrupt and terrible candidates. How should they carry the can? Demonise them further? What about the people that didn't vote? How should they be held responsible?


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    #7881
    Really Interested
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,554 ✭✭✭Really Interested


    Kitsunegari wrote: »
    That's an incredible line to take. Yes, blame the voters and not the system which produces both corrupt and terrible candidates. How should they carry the can? Demonise them further? What about the people that didn't vote? How should they be held responsible?

    If the people presented with two bad choices they could have voted for other people.

    http://www.politics1.com/p2016.htm


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    #7882
    demfad
    Registered Users Posts: 3,182 ✭✭✭demfad


    People need to become more politically informed as a result of the disasters of Brexit and Trump. We are lucky in Ireland in that we have advanced notice.
    The Irish media has failed to understand this, doesnt even understand that the failure of US/UK media implies introspection and change on their own behalf.


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    #7883
    Ludo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,015 ✭✭✭Ludo


    Either Trump is having a lie in this morning or someone managed to hide his phone on him...nothing on twitter so far.


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    #7884
    54and56
    Registered Users Posts: 7,665 ✭✭✭54and56


    jooksavage wrote: »
    Just heard Mark Halperin (probably besy known over here from the Circus Sky Atlantic). Says Republicans in Washington have been making noise overnight and all indications are they've arrived at something they can't let slide.

    Interesting to see if WH staffers will be able to keep Trump off Twitter...

    ?????


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    #7885
    demfad
    Registered Users Posts: 3,182 ✭✭✭demfad


    Kitsunegari wrote: »
    That's an incredible line to take. Yes, blame the voters and not the system which produces both corrupt and terrible candidates. How should they carry the can? Demonise them further? What about the people that didn't vote? How should they be held responsible?

    This was the unspoken line of the Trump campaign, one is as bad as the other, try the non-establishment candidate. It is a lie.
    There has been no evidence or indeed proof of corruption in HRCs case.
    Many of the public may have been mislead into this view by fake news and propaganda. But it is false.


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    #7886
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    demfad wrote: »
    This was the unspoken line of the Trump campaign, one is as bad as the other, try the non-establishment candidate. It is a lie.
    There has been no evidence or indeed proof of corruption in HRCs case.
    Many of the public may have been mislead into this view by fake news and propaganda. But it is false.

    Oh there is corruption and general shadiness there (as tends to build up over a long career in politics, particularly on the higher end), it just is not nor ever was anywhere even remotely close to Trump's. Then again, very very few people's levels corruption really are close to his - he's a career charlatan and con artist at the highest of levels.

    I do agree with your general point though, it's like someone claiming they don't like teams like West Ham and Tottenham trying to buy success in football, so they have decided to support Real Madrid and Bayern Munich instead.


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    #7887
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    He's actually not very intelligent at all, that's been evident for many years now. I'm amazed of the amount of people that have been fooled by him. The American political system is in serious trouble now

    Money talks. People always pay attention to millionaires.


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    #7888
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    Well yeah, I get that is part of the problem. It is rarely black or white.

    However, in the latest case of Trump giving intel to Russia or asking to Comey to drop an investigation, there really is only one. It is when people can't even bring themselves to see the reality instead of sticking to the 'party line' that when they should be called out on it.

    What to me is the most dangerous about this man is his complete disregard for democracy and the processes there in. He does not worry who he does business with, the consequences etc, as he can lie at the drop of a hat. A nation cannot be run on total lies and deceit.


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    #7889
    Really Interested
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,554 ✭✭✭Really Interested


    http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/trumps-disclosure-endangered-spy-inside-isis-israel-officials/story?id=47449304

    "The life of a spy placed by Israel inside ISIS is at risk tonight, according to current and former U.S. officials, after President Donald Trump reportedly disclosed classified information in a meeting with Russian officials last week."

    So Trump is now helping ISIS that's the only way to look at this.


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    #7890
    Rjd2
    Registered Users Posts: 12,106 ✭✭✭✭Rjd2


    Rjd2 wrote: »
    Yeah the (normal) right aren't happy with him over Israel. Shapiro just wrote an article breaking it down.

    http://www.dailywire.com/news/16512/trumps-terrible-no-good-very-bad-anti-israel-month-ben-shapiro#

    https://twitter.com/jacobkornbluh/status/864657292507086848

    Nikki Haley weighs in. She was one of the few picks I was happy with, she looking at Trump must be thinking WTF is going on. I can't blame her for not knowing the stance of Trump though as it changes all the time.:pac:


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    #7891
    Kitsunegari
    Closed Accounts Posts: 314 ✭✭Kitsunegari


    Billy86 wrote: »
    I do agree with your general point though, it's like someone claiming they don't like teams like West Ham and Tottenham trying to buy success in football, so they have decided to support Real Madrid and Bayern Munich instead.

    That's not really a fair comparison. The narrative from the media was that Trump's fans are idiots. The Democrats decided to focus on Trump's faults rather than the benefits of what Clinton would bring to the table. Trump's fans and opponents of Clinton were demonised in the media; being labelled as misogynists, for not supporting Clinton, and racists for supporting Trump.

    Articles like this go to show just how out-of-touch some of the major political analysts are. They didn't accept that Trump was a potential President and he was wrote off before the race even began. Washington and a lot of the media are more responsible than the people that actually cast a vote for Trump. This is the just deserts for a country whose political elite prefer to represent corporate and self-interest before their own people.

    People are sick of the status quo and government that doesn't work for them. The two biggest parties in the country are arguing over whose health bill is worse when universal health care should be the only option. You couldn't make it up and Washington has got its just deserts for years of poor governance.

    It's a real pity the DNC sidelined Bernie. If they hadn't I don't think we'd be in this mess.

    But let's blame the voters (symptom) and not diagnose the cause as usual.


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