President 'The Donald' Trump and Surprising Consequences - Mod warning in OP

B_Wayne

Kitsunegari wrote: »

Again, with the Strawman argument. I didn't say that voters have no responsibility so you're arguing against yourself on that one




You're just focusing on one factor; which was a choice between two unlikable candidates, possibly the two worst candidates in American history. Have you ever heard of the backfire effect? You're assuming absolute idealism if you think it's a simple choice between one or the other; it's not.

Also, the narrative that Trump destroys everything he touches is a bit sensationalist. You can't talk about responsibility when you're being overtly sensationalist yourself.

How would you make the people that voted for Trump responsible? You need to answer that.

Be it LaPen, Wilders or Trump. Those running against them were always an infinitely better choice. Those who opposed them might offer something predictable but they also offer some basic predictable stability. Trump always came across as an egotistical fool during his campaign, that is exactly what he is turning out to be. The press did not misrepresent what he is.

In terms of Trump destroying everything he touches, he isn't regarded as a particularly good businessman. He is a reality tv star more than anything else. He has a made a wreck of his presidency and I would say he holds a significant responsibility in terms of the ongoing failure of the Far Right in Europe. The international community has seen what an unpredictable bigot will offer in terms of leadership, the same one that the far right largely supported and they've rationally seen the chaos it can lead to.

So the only thing I'm grateful out of this presidency is that it's slowly becoming a lesson learned about being careful of who you vote for. Politically inexperienced reality tv stars who pride themselves on not being politically correct do not make for good leadership.So sometimes it is about picking the best of a worst lot. Trump was not the best even in the GOP.

Water John

The only ones as bad as him were, the humourless Cruz and the lunatic brain surgeon.

demfad

Billy86 wrote: »

Oh there is corruption and general shadiness there (as tends to build up over a long career in politics, particularly on the higher end), it just is not nor ever was anywhere even remotely close to Trump's. Then again, very very few people's levels corruption really are close to his - he's a career charlatan and con artist at the highest of levels.

I do agree with your general point though, it's like someone claiming they don't like teams like West Ham and Tottenham trying to buy success in football, so they have decided to support Real Madrid and Bayern Munich instead.

Disagree. All of the shade on Hillary was either fabricated or by association with Bill. They knew she was running and they lined her up.

Ludo

Overheal wrote: »

Trump decided to import another investigation/scandal into Washington, giving Sheriff David Clarke an assistant secretary for the Department of Homeland Security.

http://www.mediaite.com/online/controversial-sheriff-david-clarke-reportedly-accepts-homeland-security-position/

DHS have now tweeted denying that any appointment has been made.

demfad

Caveat: unverified story. At 12 Eastern time 3 judges in Eastern district Virginia granted a Marshal Execution order.
Afterwards US marshalls across multiple US jurisdictions moved against an unknown number of Trump associates.
No link yet, but pretty certain of the source. Indictments will remain sealed until unsealed. (Whatever that means). Will update when I learn more.

ThisRegard

This guy claims to have a lot of the details, with others seem to be verifying as true

Take a look at Claude Taylor (@TrueFactsStated): https://twitter.com/TrueFactsStated?s=09

aloyisious

Reading a few of the posts above is like going back to the start. Don made it clear from the start to the voters why he was going to Washington. He was going to change how things were done there, drain the swamp etc. A lot of posts around the time he was elected were full of shock about how the media polls had got their estimate so wrong. I reckon [in hindsight] there's a chance that Don saw that the experts got it all wrong proved him [in his own estimate] to be right. It boosted his ego and he thought it was all plain sailing from that point on, the people would back him all the way. It was his own basic egotistic way of treating people that has finally nailed him. If he doesn't come to realise reality the same way others do, there's a chance the people on his side of the fence that want him out, might use the constitutional change of power laws to remove him from office.....

25th Amendment: Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjDkvaI8vfTAhVFFMAKHYtqBagQFggsMAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.independent.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fworld%2Famericas%2Fus-politics%2Fus-congress-donald-trump-remove-us-president-impeachment-constitution-25th-amendment-mental-health-a7618241.html&usg=AFQjCNF3UPyCa9fX0YHKCLoPoyZFZ1kVSw

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwj5jtro8vfTAhUpKcAKHcuFDPgQFggzMAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Ftime.com%2F4692507%2Fcongress-remove-donald-trump-impeachment%2F&usg=AFQjCNGxoNM2Ou3ZdE-5DoDhSmrx-JLSBA

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwj5jtro8vfTAhUpKcAKHcuFDPgQFgg2MAM&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.vox.com%2Fpolicy-and-politics%2F2017%2F2%2F9%2F14488980%2F25th-amendment-trump-pence&usg=AFQjCNFxsWTIktJIwhYGazDMN5jMb-i8HQ

I'm not sure at all how Don might take the news of such a move, nor how his family might take it or oppose it.

Ludo

demfad wrote: »

Caveat: unverified story. At 12 Eastern time 3 judges in Eastern district Virginia granted a Marshal Execution order.
Afterwards US marshalls across multiple US jurisdictions moved against an unknown number of Trump associates.
No link yet, but pretty certain of the source. Indictments will remain sealed until unsealed. (Whatever that means). Will update when I learn more.

ThisRegard wrote: »

This guy claims to have a lot of the details, with others seem to be verifying as true

Take a look at Claude Taylor (@TrueFactsStated): https://twitter.com/TrueFactsStated?s=09

That rumours been going round for a while now...don't believe a word of it.

Billy86

Ludo wrote: »

That rumours been going round for a while now...don't believe a word of it.

Has it? I'm finishing a thesis the last two weeks so have not had time to really keep fully in the loop, but I haven't heard of it previously, Google isn't giving me much of anything back either, and I'm not sure where he gets his info but demfad has been on a few stories before the media reported them in the last few weeks if I recall.

Billy86

Also, the Senate Intel committee has accepted Comey's offer to testify in public.

https://twitter.com/MarkWarner/status/864879195436003328

Ludo

Billy86 wrote: »

Has it? I'm finishing a thesis the last two weeks so have not had time to really keep fully in the loop, but I haven't heard of it previously, Google isn't giving me much of anything back either, and I'm not sure where he gets his info but demfad has been on a few stories before the media reported them in the last few weeks if I recall.

Follow Louise Mensch (former MP) on twitter for all of it.

And now a special prosecutor appointed!!!

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/05/17/justice-dept-to-appoint-special-prosecutor-for-russia-probe-238524

aloyisious

CNN reporting DOJ has appointed Robert Mueller Special Counsel to head Russian investigation. As AG Sessions has recused himself some time back from the investigation the decision to appoint the SC was made by the Deputy AG. The DOJ is consequently cut out of direct involvement in the investigation. The SC is a former FBI director under GW Bush & well used to carrying out investigations and the people carrying out the current FBI case will report to him.

namloc1980

Ludo wrote: »

DHS have now tweeted denying that any appointment has been made.

Clarke is quoted by AP as having accepted the position. More miscommunication in the Trump administration?

Also apparently Clarke was in Russia in 2015 and met Sergei Lavrov during that trip. Rather bizarre.

Water John

Rozenstein makes his move.

demfad

Billy86 wrote: »

Has it? I'm finishing a thesis the last two weeks so have not had time to really keep fully in the loop, but I haven't heard of it previously, Google isn't giving me much of anything back either, and I'm not sure where he gets his info but demfad has been on a few stories before the media reported them in the last few weeks if I recall.

I got that from Claude Taylor on twitter as reported by another poster above. Twitter for early news and good for research.
Other news: WAPO seem to have a story that House Majority leader (Paul Ryan I assume) said in 2016 he thought Putin was paying Trump.

Also, Robert Mueller has been appointed special counsel for Trump Russia probe. He is a former FBI director. AG Sessions and deputy AG have zero say in probe now. Very bad news for team Trump.
If there is something there it can't be stopped now.

Also sheriff Clarke is now in the admin as liaison between WH and local law enforcement. He is dodgy and this is a worrying development. He was on the same trip to Moscow as Mike Flynn ( sane time anyway )

Edit: old news already I see!

jobbridge4life

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/house-majority-leader-to-colleagues-in-2016-i-think-putin-pays-trump/2017/05/17/515f6f8a-3aff-11e7-8854-21f359183e8c_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_transcript-6pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.101b8bfe5a61

Looks possibly like Ryan may be tainted.


“There’s two people I think Putin pays: Rohrabacher and Trump,” McCarthy (R-Calif.) said, according to a recording of the June 15, 2016 exchange, which was listened to and verified by The Washington Post. Rep. Dana Rohrabacher is a Californian Republican known in Congress as a fervent defender of Putin and Russia.

House Speaker Paul D. Ryan (R-Wis.) immediately interjected, stopping the conversation from further exploring McCarthy’s assertion, and swore the Republicans present to secrecy.

Water John

From CNN, WH given less than 1 hours notice. Told after it was signed.

Stheno

Water John wrote: »

Rozenstein makes his move.

Sorry for being ignorant, this is the depute AG who allegedly wrote the memo justifying sacking Comey?

Water John

Now it's all in the hands of Mueller, new Special Counsel.

Might also show how unhappy Rosenstein was it how all things were going.

aloyisious

Fox News host and guests debating powers of newly appointed SC Mueller; host saying the SC has the power to ask Don for his tax returns.... I don't know why he said that, if he genuinely thinks it possible or is going off at a rubbish tangent just to make fake news. I don't see Don's tax returns as of any import unless it's in relation to "undeclared earnings".....

Fox News just re-ran a clip from 2013 where SC Mueller {then retired FBI Dir] praising Jim [Comey's] honesty and fitness to hold office [presumably as newly appointed FBI Dir].

Water John

It depends on who may have been banking Donald?

demfad

Water John wrote: »

Now it's all in the hands of Mueller, new Special Counsel.

Might also show how unhappy Rosenstein was it how all things were going.

This is a huge development in fairness. Things are on track now

demfad

Did Trump threaten to leave NATO in the middle of all this mayhem? Not many listening to him much recently (in last day)

InTheTrees

demfad wrote: »

Caveat: unverified story. At 12 Eastern time 3 judges in Eastern district Virginia granted a Marshal Execution order.
Afterwards US marshalls across multiple US jurisdictions moved against an unknown number of Trump associates.
No link yet, but pretty certain of the source. Indictments will remain sealed until unsealed. (Whatever that means). Will update when I learn more.

This is all over twitter right now. US Marshalls service executing arrest warrants.

Is it true?

Itssoeasy

demfad wrote: »

This is a huge development in fairness. Things are on track now

Yeah it's not the best move for trump and he can't be seen to interfere with former director mueller. So the facts will be what they are.

Also his tax returns could be interesting as one of his sons is quoted a few years ago as saying that they got $100M from Russian banks. That goes against what trump has said in the past.

Water John

Does that Grand Jury action proceed, or does it now come under Mueller, as he is the Special Prosecutor?

rossie1977

I don't see this appointment meaning much. Why would a guy appointed by the white house be allowed go out of his way to implement Trump in any way.

This to me seems like a way to appease the msm and Democrats and get them chasing their tails for next few months.

We need a completely bi-partisan investigation and that's not happening until January 2019 at the earliest.

ThisRegard

rossie1977 wrote: »

I don't see to this appointment meaning much. Why would a guy appointed by the white house be allowed go out of his way to implement Trump in any way.

This to me seems to me like a way to appease the msm and get them chasing their tails.

Justice appointed him, the White House only found out around a half hour before the announcement.

Water John

Might try rewriting that. It makes no sense to me.

A non partisan investigation. WH really peeved off.

rossie1977

ThisRegard wrote: »

Justice appointed him, the White House only found out around a half hour before the announcement.

Rosenstein appointed him. The guy who just last week said there was nothing to investigate.