President 'The Donald' Trump and Surprising Consequences - Mod warning in OP

RDM_83 again

I don't get your including the British ambassador in the timeline?The report was commissioned by anti trump republicans, taken up by democrats, parts of it have been kicking around Washington for ages where McCain got it, it's a political piece that most importantly was judged as not worthy for use, otherwise it would have been used! Even mother Jones which would be fairly damn left didn't use it.

The briefings are just as likely to be occuring to make the involved parties aware that these rumours have been circulated.

The only things so far that can be easily tested have been mainly disproved, if this was about a different candidate there would be a very different level of rigour applied to this release

MightyMandarin

Chris Steele (ex-MI6 agent who wrote the dossier) is in hiding, presumably because Putin and his boys are after him.

Just a bit of background on him: He's an ex-spy who ran the Moscow desk of MI6 until 2009, owns a business, lives in a nice house in Surrey and has 2 kids. It certainly sounds like a guy with a lot to lose, so why would he endanger his life by writing a fake dossier?

Anyone who thinks he just made it all up clearly hasn't a clue about the matter or the man himself either.


As an aside, I invite people to read the dossier as the 'golden shower' stuff seems to be the main headline at the moment unfortunately. One of the most revolting parts of it claims that Trump was offered shares in Rosneft (Russian oil company) in return for lifting sanctions on them, in a secret meeting with Carter Page (Trump foreign policy adviser) in Moscow in July.

I know I've shared it a few times already but this dossier dying is exactly what that Trump and his team of traitors want. Here it is: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3259984-Trump-Intelligence-Allegations.html

Amerika

baaba maal wrote: »

Would you care to explain how ex Goldman Sachs directors are going to drain the swamp?
Genuine question- the perception most people would have is that they are the swamp.
PS - good deflection on the wall costs by talking about green energy failures!

I think people don’t really understand what “drain the swamp” means. He ran against the establishment of both parties and their self-centered manners. He didn’t run against Wall Street exactly, but the entanglement system of major financial institutions and multinational corporations, lobbyists, academics, media, power seekers in Washington. Some of his outsider picks will help to accomplish this.

If you look at his “Contract with the American Voter” that Trump outlined in his October 22 speech at Gettysburg, you will see how he plans on going about draining the swamp he is referring to.

He pledged to seek term limits, a hiring freeze on federal workers, “a requirement that for every new federal regulation two existing regulations must be eliminated,” five-year bans on executive and legislative-branch personnel from lobbying after leaving government, lifetime bans on White House personnel from lobbying for a foreign government, and a “complete ban on foreign lobbyists raising money for American elections,” as well as “seven actions to protect American workers,” “five actions to restore security and constitutional rule of law,” and legislation to reduce and simplify corporate and individual taxes, impose tariffs to protect U.S. industry, add $1 trillion in infrastructure spending over the next decade, create a federal school-choice program, end Common Core, replace Obamacare, make child-care expense tax-deductible, build the wall and crack down on illegal immigration, give more resources to police, increase defense spending, and reform the VA. All in his first 100 days in office.

PS. No deflection. Barack Obama blew $150 Billion to increase renewable energy generation by 1%. With that kind of money we could probably build a wall 100 feet high and staff it with border agents every 100 yards, including the Gulf.

CMOTDibbler

Amerika wrote: »

Perhaps but it would be at democrats peril, as John Q Public (the average American as opposed to Jane Q Lefty) wouldn't like it.

I'm just thinking of technical workarounds, not legal ones. John Q wouldn't be aware.

Prepaid debit cards being one such.

InTheTrees

Amerika wrote: »

No, Trump is know for getting projects accomplished on time, and under budget.

Unless they go bankrupt which is more than likely.

baaba maal

Well- it is a deflection away from alternative funding that Trump could use. My own belief is that Trump will provide tax cuts to people that shouldn't get them and this will also amount to billions- no point in taking about money spent by previous presidents that could have been used differently (Bush/Iraq, Kennedy/space exploration etc.).

I think that the vast majority of US voters had a sense of "draining the swamp" as including the removal of most of those categories- but clearly the banking sector and the development of all the sub-prime voodoo was a key element this, as it was a major cause of the last few years of economic stagnation. You surely won't deny Goldman Sachs role in this?
Draining the swamp must include a credible shift away from that sort of thinking. Trump appears to think of everything as "deals"- he makes the greatest deals etc. I think that there will be just as much backroom decision-making by lobbyists etc. as this idea of everything being up for negotiation takes hold. Trump University (a paltry sideshow to him in terms of his overall business interests), was a crass example of Trump happily screwing over the little guy because (presumably) they should have known better than to sign up to such an obviously daft concept.
The US has a billionaire president surrounded by a cabinet made up either extremely wealthy people, or people who act in the interests of extremely wealthy people- this doesn't bode well for decision-making to favour the average American.

And to be clear (it's not entirely relevant to the thread, but anyway)- I despise Clinton- she was up to her neck in the swamp herself, so this isn't a binary thing. PJ Rourke suggested (meaning Clinton) that Americans should vote for the second-worst candidate. I think they got the far, far worser person as president.

longshanks

Donald Trump was recently asked to explain the difference between a lentil and a chickpea.
The Donald said he never paid to have a lentil on his face.

eire4

MightyMandarin wrote: »

There was a massive pile of folders on a table next to Trump at the press conference yesterday. They were so important the press were not allowed view them or know the contents of them, despite them being there.

Well, anyway, some absolute legend decided to sneak a peek inside of them and.....

https://mlkshk-ada.kxcdn.com/r/1ASO0

Yep they're blank. Could he actually be more of a 'fake' president?

('Fake' is my new favourite adjective now, thanks Mr.Trump)

Haha fake is up there but I am going with Comrade Trump now given his connections with Russia. It is ironic that the the Republicans who traditionally froth at the mouth at the very mention of the word socialism are now stuck with a president who is at best very friendly with the Russians and at worst in collusion/being blackmailed by them.

eire4

Mr.Micro wrote: »

I just get the feeling the Americans may have bitten off more than they can chew, in the election of Trump. He wants his cake and eat it at the same time. It's going to be a rollercoaster with consequences.

The key word in there is your last one consequences. This election will have very serious consequences and sadly I do not feel optimistic they will be positive for the vast majority of Americans never mind given the power of America for people around the world.

AnGaelach

eire4 wrote: »

Haha fake is up there but I am going with Comrade Trump now given his connections with Russia. It is ironic that the the Republicans who traditionally froth at the mouth at the very mention of the word socialism are now stuck with a president who is at best very friendly with the Russians and at worst in collusion/being blackmailed by them.

Yeah, Putin is quite the socialist...

eire4

AnGaelach wrote: »

Yeah, Putin is quite the socialist...

I agree he is much more akin to a fascist. But in America Russia still has that association with communism and socialism.

MightyMandarin

eire4 wrote: »

Haha fake is up there but I am going with Comrade Trump now given his connections with Russia. It is ironic that the the Republicans who traditionally froth at the mouth at the very mention of the word socialism are now stuck with a president who is at best very friendly with the Russians and at worst in collusion/being blackmailed by them.

Russia hasn't been communist for the best part of 27 years, and Putin is very much an aggressive capitalist.

What I will say is shocking though is the cowardice of the Republicans, and their supporters, who love to mention 'patriotism' any chance they can get, but support and elect a traitor who colludes with a foreign enemy, nominates their 'friends' to cabinet positions (Rex Tillerson), whose law firm won 'Best Russian Law Firm 2016', whose lawyer's wife is russian and visits Moscow regularly, and most importantly, there's very credible evidence that he plans to manipulate America's foreign policy based on private and illegal deals he's made with Russia.

It's also a fact that Russia influenced America's election with the aim of getting him elected, and yet he doesn't give a ****.

There are notable exceptions though, such as Lindsay Graham, John McCain and Marco Rubio who won't stand for this treason. I don't care wtf else they do, but at least they'll put country before party in this context.

Amerika

The Trump Derangement Syndrome (TDS) on display here is hilarious. Trump has high standards and is all business. He’s a natural diplomat, negotiator and bargainer. He doesn’t owe anybody anything, won’t be owned by anyone, and can’t be bought. His immigration policy is sound, he’ll be tough on ISIS and Iran, and he’s not afraid to speak his mind. He actually cares for the little guy and has his priorities straight. He’ll reduce business killing regulations and save billions on UN climate change programs. And he’ll drain the swamp. He might just end up being the best US president of modern times.

eire4

MightyMandarin wrote: »

Russia hasn't been communist for the best part of 27 years, and Putin is very much an aggressive capitalist.

What I will say is shocking though is the cowardice of the Republicans, and their supporters, who love to mention 'patriotism' any chance they can get, but support and elect a traitor who colludes with a foreign enemy, nominates their 'friends' to cabinet positions (Rex Tillerson), whose law firm won 'Best Russian Law Firm 2016' and there's very credible evidence that he plans to manipulate America's foreign policy based on private and illegal deals he's made with Russia.

It's also a fact that Russia influenced America's election with the aim of getting him elected.

There are notable exceptions though, such as Lindsay Graham, John McCain and Marco Rubio who won't stand for this treason. I don't care wtf else they do, but at least they'll put country before party in this context.

I totally agree with you about Russia not being communist and not having been so for some time., However there are still associations in that way Russia=Socialism in the US regardless. of the fact that Putin and his regime is much more akin to a fascist one then a communist one.

eire4

Amerika wrote: »

The Trump Derangement Syndrome (TDS) on display here is hilarious. Trump has high standards and is all business. He’s a natural diplomat, negotiator and bargainer. He doesn’t owe anybody anything, won’t be owned by anyone, and can’t be bought. His immigration policy is sound, he’ll be tough on ISIS and Iran, and he’s not afraid to speak his mind. He actually cares for the little guy and has his priorities straight. He’ll reduce business killing regulations and save billions on UN climate change programs. And he’ll drain the swamp. He might just end up being the best US president of modern times.

Psychological Projection is a phrase I often use when thinking about many Republicans and that post is a classic example of psychological projection.

MightyMandarin

Amerika wrote: »

The Trump Derangement Syndrome (TDS) on display here is hilarious. Trump has high standards and is all business. He’s a natural diplomat, negotiator and bargainer. He doesn’t owe anybody anything, won’t be owned by anyone, and can’t be bought. His immigration policy is sound, he’ll be tough on ISIS and Iran, and he’s not afraid to speak his mind. He actually cares for the little guy and has his priorities straight. He’ll reduce business killing regulations and save billions on UN climate change programs. And he’ll drain the swamp. He might just end up being the best US president of modern times.

You're so misinformed you're actually tripping over yourself, Amerika.

The only case of TDS I can see in this forum is you.

Honestly, I feel sorry because you've been sold some magic beans from whatever media outlets you observe and maybe some day you'll regret it all, unless if you just blame it on the 'liberal conspiracy' they'll use as the excuse.

I could write a lengthy post pointing out everywhere you're wrong but I've done that so much to your claims about Trump already that there's no point; your mind is made up. Neverthless, I respect your beliefs and your decision to believe the most famous con artist on the planet.

Billy86

Amerika wrote: »

He doesn’t owe anybody anything

Apart from the $315,000,000 he has declared in debt and the $1,500,000,000 that he is most likely trying to hide as per reports.

But hey... Gooooooooooooooo sports!!

baaba maal

Amerika wrote: »

The Trump Derangement Syndrome (TDS) on display here is hilarious. Trump has high standards and is all business. He’s a natural diplomat, negotiator and bargainer. He doesn’t owe anybody anything, won’t be owned by anyone, and can’t be bought. His immigration policy is sound, he’ll be tough on ISIS and Iran, and he’s not afraid to speak his mind. He actually cares for the little guy and has his priorities straight. He’ll reduce business killing regulations and save billions on UN climate change programs. And he’ll drain the swamp. He might just end up being the best US president of modern times.

The most dangerous aspect of TDS is the inability to recognise it in oneself.

You have repeated all the claims he has made about himself and presented them as facts-in-waiting. If you can't recognise the charlatan businessman that he is:"technical" bankruptcies, the stiffed contractors etc. You would appear to be placing hope above reason. In my opinion.

L

Amerika wrote: »

PS. No deflection. Barack Obama blew $150 Billion to increase renewable energy generation by 1%.

Ok. I'll bite. As a percentage increase, it's actually 17% more renewable power. As a percentage of total US energy consumption you're talking a jump of 3% from 2007 to 2016 by annual average (not including October, November or December 2016 as they're not in the dataset).

That's about 1.1 Quadrillion BTUs or 322 TWh. It's a very substantial increase. Equivalent to about a decade of Ireland's total electricity use (a little more if you're looking at just ROI, a little less if you're going ROI+NI).

I'd also love to see where you're getting those subsidy figures from. This report suggests a much lower rate of subsidy.

eire4

MightyMandarin wrote: »

You're so misinformed you're actually tripping over yourself, Amerika.

The only case of TDS I can see in this forum is you.

Honestly, I feel sorry because you've been sold some magic beans from whatever media outlets you observe and maybe some day you'll regret it all, unless if you just blame it on the 'liberal conspiracy' they'll use as the excuse.

I could write a lengthy post pointing out everywhere you're wrong but I've done that so much to your claims about Trump already that there's no point; your mind is made up. Neverthless, I respect your beliefs and your decision to believe the most famous con artist on the planet.

I would actually throw in psychological projection as well. It seems so often over the years in areas Republicans are screaming about the most and pointing fingers about they are actually just projecting. Such as say all the voter fraud. They scream about something that does not exist but yet enact laws all over the country to suppress the votes of people they do not think will vote for them which in itself is the real voter fraud. But they had to project the voter fraud of themselves onto others Just as the TDS above is more classic psychological projection.

Professor Moriarty

Amerika wrote:

The Trump Derangement Syndrome (TDS) on display here is hilarious. Trump has high standards and is all business. He’s a natural diplomat, negotiator and bargainer. He doesn’t owe anybody anything, won’t be owned by anyone, and can’t be bought. His immigration policy is sound, he’ll be tough on ISIS and Iran, and he’s not afraid to speak his mind. He actually cares for the little guy and has his priorities straight. He’ll reduce business killing regulations and save billions on UN climate change programs. And he’ll drain the swamp. He might just end up being the best US president of modern times.

Brilliant! I love satire.

KingBrian2

All this thrash talking of Trump and his involvement with Russia is working wonders for the war lobby who are itchy to start another confrontation with Moscow. It was bad enough with Bush now with a non interventionist in the White House the war hawks will be out in numbers to drum up pressure on him to maintain sanctions on Russia. The military industrialists will use this scandal embroiling the White House to further their case that hard power against Russia will resolve all of America's problems.

MightyMandarin

KingBrian2 wrote: »

All this thrash talking of Trump and his involvement with Russia is working wonders for the war lobby who are itchy to start another confrontation with Moscow. It was bad enough with Bush now with a non interventionist in the White House the war hawks will be out in numbers to drum up pressure on him to maintain sanctions on Russia. The military industrialists will use this scandal embroiling the White House to further their case that hard power against Russia will resolve all of America's problems.

Not accepting their bribes, allowing them to influence an election or ****ing their hookers would be a start.

KingBrian2

MightyMandarin wrote: »

Not accepting their bribes, allowing them to influence an election or ****ing their hookers would be a start.

Corruption in Congress that is why Trump is there to expose the lows these people are willing to go. Posting fake news and hoaxes.

Amerika

eire4 wrote: »

Psychological Projection is a phrase I often use when thinking about many Republicans and that post is a classic example of psychological projection.

And denialism is a term that I often use... and this is a classic example of it. Everything I noted about Trump would be hard to contradict.

MightyMandarin

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Corruption in Congress that is why Trump is there to expose the lows these people are willing to go. Posting fake news and hoaxes.

Posting fake news and hoaxes is nothing compared to what he's done and what credible sources claim he plans to do. This guy will sell his country's safety for money.

MightyMandarin

Amerika wrote: »

And denialism is a term that I often use... and this is a classic example of it. Everything I noted about Trump would be hard to contradict.

No it's not. In fact, anyone who isn't influenced by toxic media can see what's going on, and any time you're pointed out wrong on this forum you ignore and cower away until the subject matter has changed.

You're the classic form of denialist because you put up a fight until you realise you have no case to argue but you're too afraid to admit you've been conned and are very, very wrong.

Amerika

baaba maal wrote: »

The most dangerous aspect of TDS is the inability to recognise it in oneself.

You have repeated all the claims he has made about himself and presented them as facts-in-waiting. If you can't recognise the charlatan businessman that he is:"technical" bankruptcies, the stiffed contractors etc. You would appear to be placing hope above reason. In my opinion.

What if I turn out to be right about Trump, and ya'll are wrong? Honestly, I don't think anyone here would be able to accept it, and definitely not cope with it.

rossie1977

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Corruption in Congress that is why Trump is there to expose the lows these people are willing to go. Posting fake news and hoaxes.

Yeah how low people go to spread fake news and hoaxes....

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/232572505238433794

MightyMandarin

Amerika wrote: »

What if I turn out to be right about Trump, and ya'll are wrong? Honestly, I don't think anyone here would be able to accept it, and definitely not cope with it.

Save/screenshot this thread and call me out on it on this forum or PM me, and I'll admit I was wrong. Seriously.