President 'The Donald' Trump and Surprising Consequences - Mod warning in OP

Billy86

Who remembers all the self congratulatory back patting going on over the Carrier plant a few months ago? Well...

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2017/05/25/carrier-sends-jobs-to-mexico-workers-say-trump-misled-them

Donald Trump stood outside a Carrier manufacturing plant in Indianapolis, Indiana weeks before taking office and boasted he just saved 1,100 jobs from being shipped to Mexico.

Inside the plant, some workers were skeptical. Carrier had promised layoffs, which Trump glossed over in his claim to save over 1,000 jobs.

On Monday, these workers were proven right. Though Trump struck a deal with Carrier promising them $7 million in local business incentives if they kept their Indianapolis plant open, the heating and cooling company warned that it would still outsource a number of Indiana jobs to Mexico, regardless. But the Trump campaign still championed the deal as a win for American workers. This week, the Carrier announced it will cut 632 jobs from its Indiana plant by the end of the year.

For labor leaders like Chuck Jones, the layoffs are a grim told-you-so moment. Jones is president of the United Steelworkers 1999, which represents employees at Carrier’s Indianapolis plant.

$7mn flushed down the toilet, but sure didn't we get a lovely speech out of it?

wonderfullife

Haven't read up-to-date on the thread but pretty good result for the Dems in Montana. A 6-point-loss really shows the growing disillusionment with the Trump regime.

At the end of the day, even if GOP voters ignore the Russia stuff and dismiss it as Fake News, they're not so quick to dismiss CBO scores showing 23 million uninsured. They're not so quick to dismiss the fact there's no wall budgeted for (or 32 miles only).

In short, they're not quick to ignore the fact Trump has accomplished absolutely sweet F all positive stuff since election.

Yeah, if the Dems pushed harder, picked a better candidate, and put the entire war-chest into it they could have swung Montana but they'd just have to do it all again in 2018.

They were better off accepting this good result. Also the 6-point loss is even better when you consider that over half of votes were submitted before the body-slam incident.

Whoever runs against him in 2018 will have the easiest job attacking him with that audio clip, especially if he pleads guilty to misdemeanour assault as the GOP are privately advising him to do.

In other news, Trump is still god-awful.

aloyisious

I'm hoping that more powerful minds in the US are wiser and don't have the mindset of this gent, seeing how Don get's notions from what he reads. Fellow [David French] of the US National Review Institute has written a response to the NY Times editorial on the Manchester bombing.

The NYT wrote this: Meanwhile, as hard as it is amid the shock and the mourning, it is important to recognize this attack for what it is: an attempt to shake Britain — and, by extension, the rest of Europe and the West — to its core, and to provoke a thirst for vengeance and a desire for absolute safety so intense, it will sweep away the most cherished democratic values and the inclusiveness of diverse societies.

The link to French's piece is below..

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/447972/manchester-attack-britain-needs-vengeance-not-justice.

wonderfullife

aloyisious wrote: »

I'm hoping that more powerful minds in the US are wiser and don't have the mindset of this gent, seeing how Don get's notions from what he reads. Fellow [David French] of the US National Review Institute has written a response to the NY Times editorial on the Manchester bombing.

The NYT wrote this: Meanwhile, as hard as it is amid the shock and the mourning, it is important to recognize this attack for what it is: an attempt to shake Britain — and, by extension, the rest of Europe and the West — to its core, and to provoke a thirst for vengeance and a desire for absolute safety so intense, it will sweep away the most cherished democratic values and the inclusiveness of diverse societies.

The link to French's piece is below..

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/447972/manchester-attack-britain-needs-vengeance-not-justice.

Mindless drivel.

Drop yet more bombs on Syria in revenge for Manchester.

That'll solve everything......

Hank Scorpio

This is probably Trump's vision of hell :pac:

ECO_Mental

Holy ****......

Russian ambassador told Moscow that Kushner wanted secret communications channel with Kremlin
http://wapo.st/2qsJQk0


"Jared Kushner and Russia’s ambassador to Washington discussed the possibility of setting up a and secure communications channel between Trump’s transition team and the Kremlin, using Russian diplomatic facilities in an apparent move to shield their pre-inauguration discussions from monitoring, according to U.S. officials briefed on intelligence reports.

Ambassador Sergei Kislyak reported to his superiors in Moscow that Kushner, then President-elect Trump’s son-in-law and confidant, made the proposal during a meeting on Dec. 1 or 2 at Trump Tower, according to intercepts of Russian communications that were reviewed by U.S. officials. Kislyak said Kushner suggested using Russian diplomatic facilities in the United States for the communications.

The meeting also was attended by Michael Flynn, Trump’s first national security adviser."

Hank Scorpio

ECO_Mental wrote: »

Holy ****......

"Ambassador Sergey Kislyak reported to his superiors in Moscow that Kushner, son-in-law and confidant to then-President-elect Trump, made the proposal during a meeting on Dec. 1 or 2 at Trump Tower, according to intercepts of Russian communications that were reviewed by U.S. officials. Kislyak said Kushner suggested using Russian diplomatic facilities in the United States for the communications.

The meeting also was attended by Michael Flynn, Trump’s first national security adviser."

That's Flynn and Kushner in trouble so.

I do need to point out that it's after the election, so it's not a smoking gun for the collusion narrative.

Hank Scorpio

Just to add to the previous post, I'm not so biased as to think there's nothing there. I don't like Kushner. It's likely at this point there's some foreign influence, he's owes alot of debt.

mcmoustache

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

Just to add to the previous post, I'm not so biased as to think there's nothing there. I don't like Kushner. It's likely at this point there's some foreign influence, he's owes alot of debt.

There's a lot of smoke there. Far too many people with amnesiac russian interations. Part of me thinks that Kysliak has one of those Men in Black flashlight memory erasers.

Hank Scorpio

mcmoustache wrote: »

There's a lot of smoke there. Far too many people with amnesiac russian interations. Part of me thinks that Kysliak has one of those Men in Black flashlight memory erasers.

Fair enough. I don't think it's unreasonable on my part to want to see the fire.

It's not a defense of Trump or anything, I'm more curious in the Wikileaks angle, which is what it all boils down to.

ECO_Mental

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

Fair enough. I don't think it's unreasonable on my part to want to see the fire.

It's not a defense of Trump or anything, I'm more curious in the Wikileaks angle, which is what it all boils down to.

Hank give it up what is the wikileaks angle you are looking for.....

The amount of Russian stuff and connections to the trump campaign is actually crazy at this stage. The CIA NSA at this stage must be holding back info from him.

He is an embarrassment to the USA now. Pushing the PM of another EU state out of the way just so he can look "important" and the centre of attention is just plain childish. There is no defending him at this stage.

Rjd2

mcmoustache wrote: »

There's a lot of smoke there. Far too many people with amnesiac russian interations. Part of me thinks that Kysliak has one of those Men in Black flashlight memory erasers.

https://twitter.com/BillKristol/status/868271899155075072

Very interesting to know who this is coming from. It would be amazing if Pence has gone all GOT, but smart money this is Bannon.

InTheTrees

Rjd2 wrote: »

Very interesting to know who this is coming from. It would be amazing if Pence has gone all GOT, but smart money this is Bannon.

Its looking really had for Kushner. He's lied before about his contacts with the Russians and now this. Apparently he was seeking to use secure communications equipment at the Russian embassy to communicate with the Kremlin. And setting this up required a secret meeting in the Seychelles.

What was so important between Kushner and the Russians that this communication channel was needed, that's the big question.

ECO_Mental

This is a case I think where the Russians played Trump and Kushner like violin.. obviously trumpski and Kushner think they are smarter than everyone else and the Russians played them like fools and set them up. They said to them listen we need a back channel lets get one set up. Pretty boy and trumpski being the complete school boys in international esponionage thinks oh yeah what's wrong with this ok then. Booom.... the Russians have them in the bag and compromised. I hate the Russians but you have got to hand it to them on this. Although it's not that hard apparently to influence trumpski, just praise him and massage his ego. Look at erdogan last week and him saying in the press con what an amazing election victory trumpski had. You could see trumpski face light up...

Omg he is such a child.

Igotadose

wonderfullife wrote: »

Haven't read up-to-date on the thread but pretty good result for the Dems in Montana. A 6-point-loss really shows the growing disillusionment with the Trump regime.

Sorry, but I don't agree. Tired of hearing how bad the tGOP are and yet, they keep winning. What will be the message if Ossoff loses in Georgia in a month?

IMO the best writer on Trump, who has been following him since the start of the 2016 campaign, is Matt Taibbi from the Rolling Stone. Here's his take on the Montana special election: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/taibbi-the-democrats-need-a-new-message-w484569


Summary quote: "How low do you have to sink to lose an election in this country? Republicans have been trying to answer that question for years. But they've been unable to find out, because Democrats somehow keep failing to beat them."

Kitsunegari

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

Fair enough. I don't think it's unreasonable on my part to want to see the fire.

It's not a defense of Trump or anything, I'm more curious in the Wikileaks angle, which is what it all boils down to.

It's not unreasonable to want to see the fire. This latest development only adds to the speculation but again it's not proof that collusion took place. It's suggestive of nefarious activity but it's not something that will bring down the Administration. Like you, I've an open mind as to what is actually going on here. Wanting to see tangible evidence before you commit to something is being unreasonable around these parts.

Kusher's father was a bit of a maverick when it comes to shady political dealings; it's no surprise that his so appears to be cut from the same cloth.
After all didn't he effectively fire Christie becuase of his fathers conviction?

Kusher has proven himself to be a huge asset to Trump but he's become a massive liability now.

Leroy42

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

"Ambassador Sergey Kislyak reported to his superiors in Moscow that Kushner, son-in-law and confidant to then-President-elect Trump, made the proposal during a meeting on Dec. 1 or 2 at Trump Tower, according to intercepts of Russian communications that were reviewed by U.S. officials. Kislyak said Kushner suggested using Russian diplomatic facilities in the United States for the communications.

The meeting also was attended by Michael Flynn, Trump’s first national security adviser."

That's Flynn and Kushner in trouble so.

I do need to point out that it's after the election, so it's not a smoking gun for the collusion narrative.

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

Just to add to the previous post, I'm not so biased as to think there's nothing there. I don't like Kushner. It's likely at this point there's some foreign influence, he's owes alot of debt.

Not a smoking gun perhaps, but seriously questionable. An ex-Cia guy on MSNBC made the point that the context of the transition is important. Clearly Trump had serious issues with the FBI and CIA and it doesn't take much of a stretch, espeicailly given his later pronuncements about wire tapping, to believe that Trump and his team felt they were being monitoroed.

It therefore reasonable from them to try to bypass the traditional communication channels. So from that point of view the story would appear, at least, reasonable.

The issue is, in regards to smoking gun, is again context. Trump had just won the election. Are we supposed to believe that out of nowhere the russians contacted them, and not only that but they offered to set up alternative communications and that this was just accepted?

Put yourself in their shoes. You have no experience of this type of stuff, you would either ignore it or go to the IC to get it checked. That is unless you actually believed the IC were against you and you felt it better to work with a foreign power than your own.

I asked the question earlier, it got lost int he whole Montana argument, but one aspect of all of this that, as far as I know has not been touched on, is why would the Trump team be in touch with the Russians in the first place.

They were in the middle of an election with seemingly everything going against them. The time around the Pussygate tape Trump was in serious trouble. They had a, in their eyes, a biased media. A weak ground team, much higher spending opponent, struggling in the polls etc etc. And yet they felt a good way to spend time was talking to the Russians?

red ears

Donald will prevail. If the Montanans will vote for a bodyslammer it's clear many have simply taken sides in politics. Liberals are their enemies.

listermint

red ears wrote: »

Donald will prevail. If the Montanans will vote for a bodyslammer it's clear many have simply taken sides in politics. Liberals are their enemies.

Donald won't have a choice against the law.

Just as that fella will be done for assault.

keane2097

https://mobile.twitter.com/ForecasterEnten/status/868091934925086720

red ears

keane2097 wrote: »

https://mobile.twitter.com/ForecasterEnten/status/868091934925086720

Isn't that always the case, sitting governments do worse.

keane2097

red ears wrote: »

Isn't that always the case, sitting governments do worse.

Is it?

Christy42

keane2097 wrote: »

Is it?

Generally yes though presuming the pattern from the special elections holds the Republicans are due to even worse than the usual government penalty. That could largely be because of Trump's unpopularity.

Certainly it holds in us mid terms and you can see the effect elsewhere. It is much easier to give out about something than it is to suggest a viable alternative that has to work as well as be a soundbite (see Obamacare).

Call me Al

Leroy42 wrote: »

Not a smoking gun perhaps, but seriously questionable. An ex-Cia guy on MSNBC made the point that the context of the transition is important. Clearly Trump had serious issues with the FBI and CIA and it doesn't take much of a stretch, espeicailly given his later pronuncements about wire tapping, to believe that Trump and his team felt they were being monitoroed.

It therefore reasonable from them to try to bypass the traditional communication channels. So from that point of view the story would appear, at least, reasonable.

The issue is, in regards to smoking gun, is again context. Trump had just won the election. Are we supposed to believe that out of nowhere the russians contacted them, and not only that but they offered to set up alternative communications and that this was just accepted?

Put yourself in their shoes. You have no experience of this type of stuff, you would either ignore it or go to the IC to get it checked. That is unless you actually believed the IC were against you and you felt it better to work with a foreign power than your own.

I asked the question earlier, it got lost int he whole Montana argument, but one aspect of all of this that, as far as I know has not been touched on, is why would the Trump team be in touch with the Russians in the first place.

They were in the middle of an election with seemingly everything going against them. The time around the Pussygate tape Trump was in serious trouble. They had a, in their eyes, a biased media. A weak ground team, much higher spending opponent, struggling in the polls etc etc. And yet they felt a good way to spend time was talking to the Russians?

Thank you for this excellent post Leroy42

I think asking this question "why" is the crux of the matter for most of these crises they've found themselves in.
Why defend Flynn in the manner Trump did?
Why fire Comey in the manner they did?
Why actively pursue the idea of a backchannel to Russia?
Why deny all these contacts being made with Russian diplomats?
Why hire people with questionable past histories, involving less than savoury aspects of Russian politics, on to your campaign?
Why not release his taxes when it could put to bed a large part of this speculation?

And the list goes on.

There's only so far the WH nothing-to-see-here line and the whole "look over there and find the leakers" response will take you in answering these questions.

PopePalpatine

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

This is probably Trump's vision of hell :pac:

Just imagine how Bannon felt:

The lack of booze must have got to him. :pac:

aloyisious

ECO_Mental wrote: »

Holy ****......

Russian ambassador told Moscow that Kushner wanted secret communications channel with Kremlin
http://wapo.st/2qsJQk0


"Jared Kushner and Russia’s ambassador to Washington discussed the possibility of setting up a and secure communications channel between Trump’s transition team and the Kremlin, using Russian diplomatic facilities in an apparent move to shield their pre-inauguration discussions from monitoring, according to U.S. officials briefed on intelligence reports.

Ambassador Sergei Kislyak reported to his superiors in Moscow that Kushner, then President-elect Trump’s son-in-law and confidant, made the proposal during a meeting on Dec. 1 or 2 at Trump Tower, according to intercepts of Russian communications that were reviewed by U.S. officials. Kislyak said Kushner suggested using Russian diplomatic facilities in the United States for the communications.

The meeting also was attended by Michael Flynn, Trump’s first national security adviser."

I'm going to walk carefully around this leak. If there's no rebuttal "the real facts are" or no fall-off of Russian usage of that Sig-link, or no sudden increase of Russian diplomatic couriers to/from Moscow due to them realising their codes have been broken by the US, I'll treat this literal third party leak to the media with care. I'm not even sure if the leak originated from Washington or from a mobile party source.

If the info was really got from Russian transmissions, then leaking it blew a US Int classified [SigInt] info source, itself a probable act of treason as Don didn't declassify it himself. We all know the O/P can probably read our stuff, we just never confirm it....

If Donald gets that angle on the leak, he'll have to try decide who's fit to carry out an internal investigation in the W/House itself.

ECO_Mental

red ears wrote: »

Donald will prevail. If the Montanans will vote for a bodyslammer it's clear many have simply taken sides in politics. Liberals are their enemies.

I think up to 80% of the votes were cast early before this body slamming so it didn't really have an effect. To actually come within 10% is a good result considering the dem candidate was pretty flakey. Trumpski won this state by 20% so it's a good enough result really.

aloyisious

ECO_Mental wrote: »

I think up to 80% of the votes were cast early before this body slamming so it didn't really have an effect. To actually come within 10% is a good result considering the dem candidate was pretty flakey. Trumpski won this state by 20% so it's a good enough result really.

The crunch vote will be in the future after the health insurance cover bursts and low level voters start getting refusals from insurers with terminal results for their nearest and dearests, the hearts and minds effect causing a grassroots groundswing.

Billy86

Interesting development...

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/26/us/politics/oleg-deripaska-paul-manafort.html?_r=0

Oleg V. Deripaska, a Russian oligarch once close to President Trump’s former campaign manager, has offered to cooperate with congressional committees investigating Russian meddling in the 2016 election, but lawmakers are unwilling to accept his conditions, according to congressional officials.

Mr. Deripaska’s offer comes amid increased attention to his ties to Paul Manafort, who is one of several Trump associates under F.B.I. scrutiny for possible collusion with Russia during the presidential campaign. The two men did business together in the mid-2000s, when Mr. Manafort, a Republican operative, was also providing campaign advice to Kremlin-backed politicians in Ukraine. Their relationship subsequently soured and devolved into a lawsuit.

From the Steele Dossier: http://annotateddossier.com/

Paul Manafort, Trump's former campaign manager, is accused of receiving a $750K "illegal, off-the-books payments from Ukraine's pro-Russian President Viktor Yanukovych before he was toppled." Furthermore, from 2006 to at least 2009, Manafort had a $10 million annual contract with Putin ally and aluminum magnate, Oleg Deripaska, to "influence politics, business dealings and new coverage inside the U.S., Europe and former Soviet republics" to benefit Putin's interests." Around the time Manafort's firm signed the $10 million contract with Deripaska, Manafort purchased an apartment at Trump Tower for all cash.

mcmoustache

Billy86 wrote: »

Interesting development...

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/26/us/politics/oleg-deripaska-paul-manafort.html?_r=0


From the Steele Dossier: http://annotateddossier.com/

You mean that 4chan hoax /s?

What's becoming obvious here is that the intelligence services and the press are on a mission to bring this administration down. The press wouldn't be able to get this volume of information out without help from the IC.