President 'The Donald' Trump and Surprising Consequences - Mod warning in OP

Professor Moriarty

Kitsunegari wrote: »

According to the data US tourism started to decline in October. Also, according to the NTTO January and February were record months for foreign tourism spending in the US.

Also, the article fails to mention that FourSquare's method of calculation is biased as it's partly based on those that use the FourSquare App. The data that FourSquare has provided also doesn't correlate with data obtained from booking sites, hotels, airlines etc so far. A lot of the rhetoric surrounding travel numbers in the US has come from NY and other major cities tourist boards who decided to cut expected tourism numbers based on the rationale that Trump would drive foreign tourists away.

Expedia jumped the gun and cut prices in March and said their data for Q1 would show the decline in passenger numbers but that still hasn't happened as far as I'm aware.

That's a lazy enough article but what would you expect from Yahoo.

Trump was elected Nov 9th. Many people watched Trump's campaign from abroad and were aghast. They continue to be aghast. A decline in tourism since October makes perfect sense in that context

RobertKK

Billy86 wrote: »

In other news, tourism to the US is plummeting as predicted - down as much as 16% from October. There's still the summer to go but it's looking pretty awful so far. As of the election last year tourism employed over 5mn people; coal mining employed 77,000 (1.4% of 5.5mn).

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/international-travel-u-sees-double-190800415.html


There is somewhat of an error in that article though, claiming "Currency exchange rates could be partially to blame for the decline in international travel to the United States. The dollar has strengthened in recent months, and the euro is down, which could make European travel more attractive. ". In the first few weeks of Trump's presidency the USD was worth 95-96c against the Euro... i nrecent weeks it has slumped down considerably to 89c.

The US will get a huge tourism boost in August.
Why go now when there will be a solar eclipse going from the west coast to the east coast in August?
We see how it is after that.
I am going then, and from my tour organiser, he is saying August is going to be exceptionally busy this year for tourism in the US.

Professor Moriarty

RobertKK wrote: »

The US will get a huge tourism boost in August.
Why go now when there will be a solar eclipse going from the west coast to the east coast in August?
We see how it is after that.
I am going then, and from my tour organiser, he is saying August is going to be exceptionally busy this year for tourism in the US.

Bloomberg, Time, Forbes, FT and many others beg to differ.

Nody

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Bloomberg, Time, Forbes, FT and many others beg to differ.

Or simply check with one of the largest Airlines such as Emirates (cutting up to 50% of their flights) or other search sites and of course Mexicans.

Professor Moriarty

Nody wrote: »

Or simply check with one of the largest Airlines such as Emirates (cutting up to 50% of their flights) or other search sites and of course Mexicans.

Of course, Mexican tourists will have to climb over that big, beautiful wall. Oh wait...

Sam Russell

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Of course, Mexican tourists will have to climb over that big, beautiful wall. Oh wait...

Is that on the way in or the way out?

Professor Moriarty

Sam Russell wrote: »

Is that on the way in or the way out?

As you say that....more Mexicans are leaving the US than are entering the US. It's Fox News so it must be true.

listermint

RobertKK wrote: »

The US will get a huge tourism boost in August.
Why go now when there will be a solar eclipse going from the west coast to the east coast in August?
We see how it is after that.
I am going then, and from my tour organiser, he is saying August is going to be exceptionally busy this year for tourism in the US.

It is flying in the face of all facts.

Trump has created an environment many people do not want to visit.

Thats the simple truth.

Leroy42

White House communications director Mike Dubke resigns -http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/30/white-house-communications-director-mike-dubke-resigns/

TBH I'm really surprised.

Who could have guessed there was an actual person directing communications!

Nody

Leroy42 wrote: »

White House communications director Mike Dubke resigns -http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/30/white-house-communications-director-mike-dubke-resigns/

TBH I'm really surprised.

Who could have guessed there was an actual person directing communications!

From what I read elsewhere Trump was unhappy with the number of leaks and the fact he could not keep his team in control. This is also why the team did not know why the FBI Director was fired and had to make up their own version as Trump did not tell them.

Kitsunegari

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Trump was elected Nov 9th. Many people watched Trump's campaign from abroad and were aghast. They continue to be aghast. A decline in tourism since October makes perfect sense in that context

That's a very simplistic view to take. In October Hilary Clinton was a dead cert to be the next US president. You just want to provide part of the context because it suits your narrative.

listermint

Kitsunegari wrote: »

That's a very simplistic view to take. In October Hilary Clinton was a dead cert to be the next US president. You just want to provide part of the context because it suits your narrative.

Please explain a 16% drop in tourism.

Yes 16% drop.

Kitsunegari

listermint wrote: »

Please explain a 16% drop in tourism.

Yes 16% drop.

Did you miss my original post? FourSqaure saying there is a 16% drop doesn't mean there is a 16% drop. Do I need to explain why a company that partly uses app-only users to collect data isn't a wider reflection on travel across America?

listermint

Kitsunegari wrote: »

Did you miss my original post? FourSqaure saying there is a 16% drop doesn't mean there is a 16% drop. Do I need to explain why a company that partly uses app-only users to collect data isn't a wider reflection on travel across America?

Did you miss the 4 other posters from several other sources showing the drop in Tourism?


I suspect you read them but hope folks would forget they were posted.

So,

Can YOU tell me why there is such a drop in tourism ? Yourself, with some information that asserts your point.

Christy42

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/05/30/politics/russians-trump-campaign-information/index.html

Russian officials have been talking about info they have on Trump's team. Obvious caveats that they could overstating, lying or simply incorrect but adds more fuel to the fire that is the Russia story.

Leroy42

There could be any number of reasons why tourism would drop, and even then one needs to consider the reliability and the comparability of the numbers.

Would Trump being elected have a negative effect? IMO yes, but I can only base that on my own sphere of knowledge. But other factors would have an effect. Exchange rates, sense of safety, disposable income. For example, with Brexit vote, would that have the effect that many british that would normally go to the US hold off on the spend to see what is happening?

Certainly all the stories about immigration crackdown, coupled with the laptop ban etc is bound to have an effect. Can that be laid at Trumps door? Not really.

There are so many real issues on which to tackle trump and those that seem to support him on that it is wasting time on incidental issues like this (IMO).

Kitsunegari

listermint wrote: »

Did you miss the 4 other posters from several other sources showing the drop in Tourism?


I suspect you read them but hope folks would forget they were posted.

So,

Can YOU tell me why there is such a drop in tourism ? Yourself, with some information that asserts your point.

You asked me why there was a 16% drop in tourism strictly referring to the FourSquare article. Maybe you should phrase your questions better in future.

Billy86

Kitsunegari wrote: »

Did you miss my original post? FourSqaure saying there is a 16% drop doesn't mean there is a 16% drop. Do I need to explain why a company that partly uses app-only users to collect data isn't a wider reflection on travel across America?

How does one partly use something exclusively?

Oafley Jones

listermint wrote: »

Did you miss the 4 other posters from several other sources showing the drop in Tourism?


I suspect you read them but hope folks would forget they were posted.

So,

Can YOU tell me why there is such a drop in tourism ? Yourself, with some information that asserts your point.

Even Disney World had a huge amount of open inventory in their hotel rooms for peak summer. The (long awaited) major expansion to Animal Kingdom would normally leave the place blocked solid. They're still advertising like crazy at the moment.

Professor Moriarty

Kitsunegari wrote: »

That's a very simplistic view to take. In October Hilary Clinton was a dead cert to be the next US president. You just want to provide part of the context because it suits your narrative.

Clinton eh? The words horse, dead and flogging spring to mind.

I've linked to four respected news outlets that report an expected drop in tourism revenue since October 2016. They attribute that to Trump's policies. There are many more outlets reporting the same.

However, I'm acutely aware that you are very suspicious of most news outlets. Would Fox News be reputable enough for you? Here's their take on Trump's impact on tourism.

Perhaps you have a link to a reputable news source that supports your argument?

Kitsunegari

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Clinton eh? The words horse, dead and flogging spring to mind.

I've linked to four respected news outlets that report an expected drop in tourism revenue since October 2016. They attribute that to Trump's policies. There are many more outlets reporting the same.

However, I'm acutely aware that you are very suspicious of most news outlets. Would Fox News be reputable enough for you? Here's their take on Trump's impact on tourism.

Perhaps you have a link to a reputable news source that supports your argument?

My argument was against FourSquare's analysis and data which is what Billy86 posted. I'm also not arguing against the assertion that Trump is somewhat responsible for a decrease in travel to the US but the fact remains that the decrease started in October when Clinton was ahead in the polls and Trump wasn't looking very likely to get into office. October suffered a decrease indicating that factors impacted before that period as you don't usually book a holiday to the US on a few weeks notice.

You have decided to make up an argument here. You want to blame everything on Trump; that's fine. My point was that there are other factors to consider here which there clearly is as the industry started to suffer a decline in October, which is before Trump took office.

Who would have thought that CEO's and lobby groups would try and blame factors outside of their control in order to explain away poor numbers?

Also, do you even check your sources?

Bloomberg only manages to reference a Candian newspaper as evidence and cites the USTA despite the USTA statement being a response to the executive order and was amended shortly after. Perhaps, if you checked your sources would know but here is an additional release by the USTA a month and a half later that disputes all of the evidence you have presented. But don't let facts get in the way of a partisan argument.

Did you bother to read or check any of those articles?

Kitsunegari

Billy86 wrote: »

How does one partly use something exclusively?

You posted a nonsense article from Yahoo and you now want to get bogged down into petty semantics. FourSquare collect a portion of their data from their native app users. If you looked it up before posting the article you would have probably figured that out.

Leroy42

I don't have access to twitter on this computer so will have to type it but this is the latest tweet from POTUS

The US Senate should switch to 51 votes, immediately, and get Healthcare and TAX CUTS approved, fast and easy. Dems would do it, no doubt!

For those that think this man, or the GOP, are going anywhere. They will happily do whatever it takes to get what they want. Takeovers are seldom actually done by way of a big coup, it is more like an creeping normalisation. Erdogan, Hitler etc. The lessons in history are clear ot anyone who cares to look.

So why stop at 51. Why bother with the Senate at all. If it is really urgent then just let POTUS sign it.

Professor Moriarty

Kitsunegari wrote: »

My argument was against FourSquare's analysis and data which is what Billy86 posted. I'm also not arguing against the assertion that Trump is somewhat responsible for a decrease in travel to the US but the fact remains that the decrease started in October when Clinton was ahead in the polls and Trump wasn't looking very likely to get into office. October suffered a decrease indicating that factors impacted before that period as you don't usually book a holiday to the US on a few weeks notice.

You have decided to make up an argument here. You want to blame everything on Trump; that's fine. My point was that there are other factors to consider here which there clearly is as the industry started to suffer a decline in October, which is before Trump took office.

Who would have thought that CEO's and lobby groups would try and blame factors outside of their control in order to explain away poor numbers?

Also, do you even check your sources?

Bloomberg only manages to reference a Candian newspaper as evidence and cites the USTA despite the USTA statement being a response to the executive order and was amended shortly after. Perhaps, if you checked your sources would know but here is an additional release by the USTA a month and a half later that disputes all of the evidence you have presented. But don't let facts get in the way of a partisan argument.

Did you bother to read or check any of those articles?

I did read them actually. They all say the same thing.

Now, did you ever hear of the phrase 'hoisted by your own petard'? You supplied one link. Just one solitary link. And here's the first line:

"International travel again defied growth expectations in February 2017, according to the U.S. Travel Association’s Travel Trends Index (TTI)—but U.S. Travel economists still warn of a drop-off in international travel going forward."


In fact the whole article argues that a decrease in international travel to the US is very likely.

Looks like you should practice what you preach.

Billy86

Kitsunegari wrote: »

You posted a nonsense article from Yahoo and you now want to get bogged down into petty semantics. FourSquare collect a portion of their data from their native app users. If you looked it up before posting the article you would have probably figured that out.

No no, I posted to an article with a lot that you were unable to refute so you tried to latch on to and misrepresent one very specific part of it. Now you're giving out about "semantic" arguments because it showed the nonsense claim that they "partly" use something "only". It's like McDonalds taking offense to someone questioning their claims that their chips are made from "100% Irish potatoes".

Kitsunegari

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

I did read them actually. They all say the same thing.

Now, did you ever hear of the phrase 'hoisted by your own petard'? You supplied one link. Just one solitary link. And here's the first line:

"International travel again defied growth expectations in February 2017, according to the U.S. Travel Association’s Travel Trends Index (TTI)—but U.S. Travel economists still warn of a drop-off in international travel going forward."


In fact the whole article argues that a decrease in international travel to the US is very likely.

Looks like you should practice what you preach.

A warning isn't a measurement. Yeah, they all said the same thing which was complete nonsense.

Have you any other wildly speculative and poorly researched articles to back up your sensationalist point?

Billy86 wrote: »

No no, I posted to an article with a lot that you were unable to refute so you tried to latch on to and misrepresent one very specific part of it. Now you're giving out about "semantic" arguments because it showed the nonsense claim that they "partly" use something "only". It's like McDonalds taking offense to someone questioning their claims that their chips are made from "100% Irish potatoes".

It's very easy to refute. FourSquare isn't a reliable measurement of travel. What part of that don't you understand? There is no need to go back to that Yahoo article as it's complete tripe and amazingly it's tripe that works because here you are still defending it.

Backfire effect in full swing.

InTheTrees

Leroy42 wrote: »

I don't have access to twitter on this computer so will have to type it but this is the latest tweet from POTUS

The US Senate should switch to 51 votes, immediately, and get Healthcare and TAX CUTS approved, fast and easy. Dems would do it, no doubt!

For those that think this man, or the GOP, are going anywhere. They will happily do whatever it takes to get what they want. Takeovers are seldom actually done by way of a big coup, it is more like an creeping normalisation. Erdogan, Hitler etc. The lessons in history are clear ot anyone who cares to look.

So why stop at 51. Why bother with the Senate at all. If it is really urgent then just let POTUS sign it.

Tax cuts for the 1% is their only goal. All the rest is just to make that happen. They don't care about healthcare one way or another but taking it away from people frees up money for a tax break so that's why its important to them.

listermint

Kitsunegari wrote: »

A warning isn't a measurement. Yeah, they all said the same thing which was complete nonsense.

Have you any other wildly speculative and poorly researched articles to back up your sensationalist point?



It's very easy to refute. FourSquare isn't a reliable measurement of travel. What part of that don't you understand? There is no need to go back to that Yahoo article as it's complete tripe and amazingly it's tripe that works because here you are still defending it.

Backfire effect in full swing.

You have yet to show any information to explain any of the drops in tourism. And all the drops are extensive.

If you for example owned a hotel and saw a 10 to 16 percent drop in business you may have to close your doors or at least let alot of people go


So, again I ask you to explain it with some facts and figures

Maximus Alexander

InTheTrees wrote: »

Tax cuts for the 1% is their only goal. All the rest is just to make that happen. They don't care about healthcare one way or another but taking it away from people frees up money for a tax break so that's why its important to them.

Imagine how hard you'd be laughing into your brandy and caviar knowing that 60 million mostly poor people voted you into power so you could take some more of what little they have and give it to yourself and your rich friends. And that they elected you based on you pretty much having told them you were going to do that. It beggars belief.

Celticfire

listermint wrote: »

You have yet to show any information to explain any of the drops in tourism. And all the drops are extensive.

If you for example owned a hotel and saw a 10 to 16 percent drop in business you may have to close your doors or at least let alot of people go


So, again I ask you to explain it with some facts and figures

Even the article Billy86 linked to can't provide a shred of proof that the headline they ran with holds any water.

Billy86 wrote:

Donald Trump in the White House has foreign tourists saying, "Thanks, but no thanks," on travel to the United States.

International tourism in the U.S. is down by as much as 16% since October 2016, according to a new analysis from Foursquare. While the data doesn't pinpoint the exact cause of the decline

Nothing like putting Trump in the headline to garner clicks.