President 'The Donald' Trump and Surprising Consequences - Mod warning in OP

NinjaKirby

Water John wrote: »

Suggest to you, Ninja, move across to After Hours, which I enjoy.
Trump, Bannon et al are no laughing matter.

Says you. People deal with things their own way.

In a parallel universe I'm sure we'd have threads about the awfulness of Ted Cruz or Hillary Clinton.

Are any of us in a position to do anything other than comment on Trump and Bannon etc? I guess we could "spread the word" about how bad they are but there seems to be enough noise out there already.

If I put a bunch of witty anti-Trump stuff on my Facebook I get a whole ton of likes but I don't feel like it's contributing to anything significant.

NinjaKirby

cylor wrote: »

Pulling out of the Paris Accord was just to score a "win" that he desperately needs, i.e. undo an Obama achievement, tick off one of his campaign promise. It'd give the impression to his supporters that he's a tough guy not afraid to walk out of something even if it's unpopular. Give a fat middle finger to the rest of the world.
The outrage on the expectation that the US will change direction completely, do nothing about emissions and destroy the planet may be exaggerated. Coal won't make a dramatic come-back, renewable energy industry will continue to thrive in the US, and voluntary actions by companies/states will mean the US will continue to curb emissions anyway. They will do less about it actively, but that wasn't the reason for pulling out of the accord since the targets are non-binding.

Biggest negative of this action is alienating the US from the rest of the world in terms of leadership, standing, reputation. But we all know Trump doesn't care about that if that makes him look good among his supporters, and score that vital "win". He made this "celebratory" announcement in the rose garden with a jazz band FFS.

"Biggest negative of this action is alienating the US from the rest of the world in terms of leadership, standing, reputation."

Maybe this could be a good thing for the rest of the world, to be honest.

Zubeneschamali

NinjaKirby wrote: »

if we can give the planet an extra 100 years or so of life then that's fine.

The planet will be grand. It will recover quite quickly after humans are gone.

mcmoustache

Akrasia wrote: »

Breaking news!
Trump has announced that America are pulling out of the Montreal Protocol.

In a statement Trump proclaimed that he wants "Make fridges great again"

In another surprise development, Trump announced that effective immediately, lead is being re-introduced into all sources of gasoline.


"Regulations are hurting our economy. pumping lead into our air and water is what made America. Fake scientists working for China have had their way for too long"

I... I could actually believe this.

NinjaKirby

oscarBravo wrote: »

I'll "lighten up" when idiot politicians and their enablers - including the people who think existential crises are terribly amusing - stop threatening the future of our species. If he ran on a platform of dropping nukes on Denmark, would you get the "hysteria" if he followed through on it?

The idea that it's OK for an idiot politician to do irreversible damage to the planet on the basis that he promised he was going to do so, and enough idiots thought it was a good idea to vote for him to do so, is symptomatic of the bizarre idea that any terrible action is justifiable once it has a veneer of democratic legitimacy. He doesn't have any actual politics. The only reasonable explanation for the trajectory of the Trump presidency is that the man is insane, and that he's being used by other people in ways he's incapable of understanding. Yeah, fcuk it. If he starts a nuclear war and destroys the planet, what about it? The survivors can just vote for a Democrat in 2020. It's all a bit of a lark, isn't it?

Yeah, it's hilarious. Maybe you can explain to your grandchildren that you would have loved to have left them a functioning ecosystem, but you were too busy laughing about the problem to do anything about it. I guess as long as it's only other people who are affected, it's a bit much to expect you to care.

If he ran on a platform of dropping nukes on Denmark then I very much doubt he'd be voted in. It's a silly analogy anyway. I don't agree with war full stop but I've never in my life been able to stop it from happening. After decades of watching the news I've seen some s*** and I've been powerless to stop any of it.

Our species is already f*cked. Hundreds of thousands die needlessly every single day.

We've already done irreversible damage to the planet and we'll do more before this is all over.

The best that we non-Americans can hope for is that we ride out the next 4 years and American voters make a better choice in 2020. That's it. That's all we've got.

You are wound up over some randomer laughing about it online but that's nothing. Ineffective. When it comes to actually doing something you are just as impotent as I am.

WinnyThePoo

NinjaKirby wrote: »

If he ran on a platform of dropping nukes on Denmark then I very much doubt he'd be voted in. It's a silly analogy anyway. I don't agree with war full stop but I've never in my life been able to stop it from happening. After decades of watching the news I've seen some s*** and I've been powerless to stop any of it.

Our species is already f*cked. Hundreds of thousands die needlessly every single day.

We've already done irreversible damage to the planet and we'll do more before this is all over.

The best that we non-Americans can hope for is that we ride out the next 4 years and American voters make a better choice in 2020. That's it. That's all we've got.

You are wound up over some randomer laughing about it online but that's nothing. Ineffective. When it comes to actually doing something you are just as impotent as I am.

What do you think we should do?

Close the thread?

Billy86

NinjaKirby wrote: »

Look, I live in Ireland and I didn't vote in the US elections. I'll probably never even visit America. I don't even know if they'd let me in!

Whatever about the naivety of not seeing how the US economy impacts the Irish economy, whether you travel or not is irrelevant since air and water does.

B0jangles

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

The planet will be grand. It will recover quite quickly after humans are gone.

I genuinely hope this is true, but some of the research I've seen about the growing acidification of the oceans, the melting permafrost leading to massive releases of trapped methane, and the warming oceans also potentially releasing more huge amounts of methane has me worried about the long-term status of the biosphere.

I think humanity has doomed itself longterm, I just feel sorry for all the species who are unlucky enough to share a planet with us

NinjaKirby

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

What do you think we should do?

Close the thread?

Hell no. We should argue back and forth because that's a good way to deal with things. That's not sarcasm. I mean it.

You are maybe gonna hate me for this but I think the poster Hank Scorpio had it right "quarrelling back and fourth is for entertainment and time passing purposes only".

Billy86

I wonder how angry Trump is going to be that this only kept eyes of the Russia for less than a day?

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/former-diplomats-trump-team-sought-lift-sanctions-russia-n767406

The Trump administration was gearing up to lift sanctions on Russia when the president took office, but career diplomats ginned up pressure in Congress to block the move, two senior former State Department officials told NBC News Thursday.

It's the latest evidence that President Trump moved to turn his favorable campaign rhetoric about Russia into concrete action when he took power.

Daniel Fried, who served as a senior diplomat until he retired in late February, said he became aware of the sanctions effort in the early weeks of Trump's presidency.

He said State Department colleagues approached him, "concerned that the Trump administration, the incoming team was going to unilaterally rescind the sanctions on Russia, which had been placed there because of Russia's aggression on Ukraine. And it was further said by these people that there would be no action required from Russia."

The White House did not immediately respond to a request for comment from NBC News.

mcmoustache

NinjaKirby wrote: »

Hell no. We should argue back and forth because that's a good way to deal with things. That's not sarcasm. I mean it.

You are maybe gonna hate me for this but I think the poster Hank Scorpio had it right "quarrelling back and fourth is for entertainment and time passing purposes only".

Have you ever been to an internet forum before?

seamus

B0jangles wrote: »

I genuinely hope this is true, but some of the research I've seen about the growing acidification of the oceans, the melting permafrost leading to massive releases of trapped methane, and the warming oceans also potentially releasing more huge amounts of methane has me worried about the long-term status of the biosphere.

I think humanity has doomed itself longterm, I just feel sorry for all the species who are unlucky enough to share a planet with us

I wouldn't worry too much about that. Species die out all the time, 99% of everything that has ever lived is already gone, almost everything currently alive will be gone within half a million years, with or without us.

After we're gone, evolution will take care of the "survival" bit and in our place will be a new thriving ecosystem with life that absolutely loves the conditions that have been left behind.

The likelihood of turning into a Venus-like planet with daytime temps of 200-400 degrees are quite small because of the location of our orbit. Even a runaway greenhouse effect (assuming we disappear) would only put average global temperatures in the mid-teens to twenties.

This is a complete disaster for most species currently in existence, but is not incompatible with life in general. So evolution would easily take care of it.

NinjaKirby

Billy86 wrote: »

Whatever about the naivety of not seeing how the US economy impacts the Irish economy, whether you travel or not is irrelevant since air and water does.

Yes. There is nothing I can do about ANY of that.

At best I can say to my local politicians "please sort out that eejit in America".

Maybe I could boycott American products.

What else is there? Express some outrage online?

Join a "march" where nobody even seems to know exactly what they are marching for, or against, and the organizers are really only in it to further their own careers?

WinnyThePoo

NinjaKirby wrote: »

Hell no. We should argue back and forth because that's a good way to deal with things. That's not sarcasm. I mean it.

You are maybe gonna hate me for this but I think the poster Hank Scorpio had it right "quarrelling back and fourth is for entertainment and time passing purposes only".

I have Hank on ignore. So can't see his posts.

Though I suspect its just whatever his disagreement with the Paris accord being refuted.

Billy86

NinjaKirby wrote: »

Yes. There is nothing I can do about ANY of that.

At best I can say to my local politicians "please sort out that eejit in America".

Maybe I could boycott American products.

What else is there? Express some outrage online?

Join a "march" where nobody even seems to know exactly what they are marching for, or against, and the organizers are really only in it to further their own careers?

Why are you a member of boards, or why do you post on any thread then? Like same sex bathrooms, graffiti on The George, the attack in Manchester... why even post on them, what can you do to stop them? Express some outrage online?

mcmoustache

Billy86 wrote: »

Why are you a member of boards, or why do you post on any thread then? Like same sex bathrooms, graffiti on The George, the attack in Manchester... why even post on them, what can you do to stop them? Express some outrage online?

it's like going to the soccer forum and starting a thread entitled "Football is dumb. Why are you even discussing it?". There's probably a word for that.

NinjaKirby

Billy86 wrote: »

Why are you a member of boards, or why do you post on any thread then? Like same sex bathrooms, graffiti on The George, the attack in Manchester... why even post on them, what can you do to stop them? Express some outrage online?

Um, because I thought it was interesting or because I was thinking about those issues?

I posted on them because I wanted to express something.

I'm a member of Boards because that's almost therapeutic, to have an idea or a thought about something and just put it out there.

So you are going through my posting history? Can I ask why?

Calina

Thing is, and I realise this is tangential, some interesting and informative stuff has been posted to the thread. So if people aren't being obnoxious, in addition to time passing/entertainment you can learn a lot from discussions. Peregrinus in particular has posted useful stuff on why the US president's decision on the Paris Accord is bad.

If you approach all discussions as time passing irrelevant, how do you ever broaden your outlook on life and learn stuff?

It isn't like we are all low attention span US politicians.

NinjaKirby

mcmoustache wrote: »

it's like going to the soccer forum and starting a thread entitled "Football is dumb. Why are you even discussing it?". There's probably a word for that.

Except I wasn't saying "why are you discussing it". Or anything close to that.

A poster asked for links to CNN articles.

I provided links and said I thought the contradictory headlines (that I initially thought were surely fake) were funny.

So then I was called out on that and then I was asked why I think this is funny at all. So I tried to explain my point of view on all this.

Billy86

NinjaKirby wrote: »

Um, because I thought it was interesting or because I was thinking about those issues?

I posted on them because I wanted to express something.

I'm a member of Boards because that's almost therapeutic, to have an idea or a thought about something and just put it out there.

So you are going through my posting history? Can I ask why?

Why is quite obvious - to point out that going on a politics forum and saying talking about politics on a forum is dumb, is every bit as stupid/funny as going on a thread about one of those topics and saying a thread about one of those topics is stupid/funny.

NinjaKirby

Calina wrote: »

Thing is, and I realise this is tangential, some interesting and informative stuff has been posted to the thread. So if people aren't being obnoxious, in addition to time passing/entertainment you can learn a lot from discussions. Peregrinus in particular has posted useful stuff on why the US president's decision on the Paris Accord is bad.

If you approach all discussions as time passing irrelevant, how do you ever broaden your outlook on life and learn stuff?

It isn't like we are all low attention span US politicians.

I already acknowledged that.

I already said "it is fascinating and I honestly really like and respect many of the people who post here" and I didn't want to name names but Peregrinus would be one of those posters that I have respect for.

I don't see it as irrelevant discussion. I just see it as not exactly life altering. It's more of an exercise. That's the best way I can put it.

mcmoustache

Another good reason, and the one that motivates a lot of people is to correct false or misleading information. There has been plenty of it in this thread and some of it seems deliberate.

InTheTrees

NinjaKirby wrote: »

This discussion on Boards isn't going to change the world so I think it's good to engage with people in conversation but there is no need to take it SO seriously.

Some posters are in the USA though so its a bit more immediate for them.

NinjaKirby

Billy86 wrote: »

Why is quite obvious - to point out that going on a politics forum and saying talking about politics on a forum is dumb, is every bit as stupid/funny as going on a thread about one of those topics and saying a thread about one of those topics is stupid/funny.

That would be a valid point IF I had said that talking about politics on a forum is dumb.

I said "i think it's good to engage with people in conversation but there is no need to take it SO seriously".

I also said "it is fascinating and I honestly really like and respect many of the people who post here, I appreciate the passion and the back and forth arguments but, for me, we are already screwed and I just see it as entertainment".

I did not say it was dumb. YOU incorrectly interpreted what I said and ran with it.

Maybe "entertainment" was a poor choice of word so I can accept I made a mistake there. Unfortunately for me folks like yourself are waiting to pounce on any and all mistakes.

NinjaKirby

InTheTrees wrote: »

Some posters are in the USA though so its a bit more immediate for them.

With respect to them, they are also in a better position to do something about it.

Billy86

NinjaKirby wrote: »

That would be a valid point IF I had said that talking about politics on a forum is dumb.

I said "i think it's good to engage with people in conversation but there is no need to take it SO seriously".

I also said "it is fascinating and I honestly really like and respect many of the people who post here, I appreciate the passion and the back and forth arguments but, for me, we are already screwed and I just see it as entertainment".

I did not say it was dumb. YOU incorrectly interpreted what I said and ran with it.

Maybe "entertainment" was a poor choice or word so I can accept I made a mistake there. Unfortunately for me folks like yourself are waiting to pounce on any and all mistakes.

How about YOU pay attention to the post I actually quoted, particularly the last two parts. If you weren't inferring that posting about these matters is pointless/stupid/a waste of time, what exactly were you getting at?

NinjaKirby wrote: »

Yes. There is nothing I can do about ANY of that.

At best I can say to my local politicians "please sort out that eejit in America".

Maybe I could boycott American products.

What else is there? Express some outrage online?

Join a "march" where nobody even seems to know exactly what they are marching for, or against, and the organizers are really only in it to further their own careers?

It's also worth noting that largely unchallenged bullsh** narratives, often posted online from Russia (and Macedonia, I believe it was) are a huge part of what got Trump into the White House in the first place.

NinjaKirby

Billy86 wrote: »

It's also worth noting that largely unchallenged bullsh** narratives, often posted online from Russia (and Macedonia, I believe it was) are a huge part of what got Trump into the White House in the first place.

Doesn't the responsibility for challenging those narratives solely belong to Trumps political opponents in the US?

I was under the impression that dirty, underhanded, tactics were basically the norm in politics all over the world?

For example, the rumor that Obama was not born in the USA was properly kicked off by Clinton supporters during the 2008 primary process.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/barackobama/8478044/Birther-row-began-with-Hillary-Clinton-supporters.html

It's been going on forever and will continue to go on.

demfad

Billy86 wrote: »

.....
It's also worth noting that largely unchallenged bullsh** narratives, often posted online from Russia (and Macedonia, I believe it was) are a huge part of what got Trump into the White House in the first place.

These stories were massive on Facebook. Also worth noting that Cambridge Analytica were able to target individuals with individual FB darkpost attack ads often from these fake news stories.
A big data firm is as powerful as its data and I think there will be a lot of illegality in how data on the US voting public was obtained.
CA is another huge link to Brexit and I would expect more contagion there: The Farage 'person of interest to FBI' story will be the start of something potentialy huge there also and before the UK has left.

mcmoustache

NinjaKirby wrote: »

Doesn't the responsibility for challenging those narratives solely belong to Trumps political opponents in the US?

I was under the impression that dirty, underhanded, tactics were basically the norm in politics all over the world?

For example, the rumor that Obama was not born in the USA was properly kicked off by Clinton supporters during the 2008 primary process.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/barackobama/8478044/Birther-row-began-with-Hillary-Clinton-supporters.html

It's been going on forever and will continue to go on.

I've seen a lot of useless posts in my time but you're on a roll here.

This is a discussion forum website. This is a thread about Trump. People have opinions on him and the consequences of him being president.

Why are you trying so hard not to understand?

NinjaKirby

mcmoustache wrote: »

I've seen a lot of useless posts in my time but you're on a roll here.

This is a discussion forum website. This is a thread about Trump. People have opinions on him and the consequences of him being president.

Why are you trying so hard not to understand?

OK. Sorry.

My understanding is that dirty, underhanded, tactics were basically the norm in politics all over the world?

I would give an example but think I'd better not lest I be accused of committing the "what about..." fallacy.

Given that everyone knows that some dodgy stuff goes on in the background when it comes to politics, shouldn't Trumps opponents shoulder the responsibility for not anticipating and countering these bullsh** narratives?

Why was the fake news that helped Trump specifically so powerful and so unstoppable? Especially when we know that politicians have been engaging in these tactics for a long long time?