President 'The Donald' Trump and Surprising Consequences - Mod warning in OP

mcmoustache

Actual Comey memos from https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/sites/default/files/documents/os-jcomey-060817.pdf

The President then returned to the topic of Mike Flynn, saying, “He is a
good guy and has been through a lot.” He repeated that Flynn hadn’t done
anything wrong on his calls with the Russians, but had misled the Vice President.
He then said, “I hope you can see your way clear to letting this go, to letting Flynn
go. He is a good guy. I hope you can let this go.” I replied only that “he is a good
guy.” (In fact, I had a positive experience dealing with Mike Flynn when he was a
colleague as Director of the Defense Intelligence Agency at the beginning of my
term at FBI.) I did not say I would “let this go.”

B0jangles

mcmoustache wrote: »

Actual Comey memos from https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/sites/default/files/documents/os-jcomey-060817.pdf

Ah, don't leave out the bit about the Russian hookers that Trump totally didn't sleep with:

On the morning of March 30 , the President called me at the FBI. He described the Russia investigation as “a cloud” that was impairing his ability to act on behalf of the country. He said he had nothing to do with Russia, had not been involved with hookers in Russia, and had always assumed he was being recorded when in Russia. He asked what we could do to “lift the cloud.” I responded that we were investigating the matter as quickly as we could, and that there would be great benefit, if we didn’t find anything, to our having done the work well. He agreed, but then re - emphasized the problems this was causing him.

mcmoustache

B0jangles wrote: »

Ah, don't leave out the bit about the Russian hookers that Trump totally didn't sleep with:

I wanted to leave that as an exercise for the reader

CMOTDibbler

mcmoustache wrote: »

Anyone want some Comey memos?

Hmmm...

Access Denied
You don't have permission to access "http://serve-403-lamp.www.senate.gov/sites/default/files/documents/os-jcomey-060817.pdf" on this server.

Reference #18.2dd21102.1496860533.4d55df66

namloc1980

mcmoustache wrote: »

Anyone want some Comey memos?

Nothing new in these that we didn't know already. A bit awkward and definitely inappropriate from Trump, but no smoking gun

B0jangles

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Hmmm...

Access Denied
You don't have permission to access "http://serve-403-lamp.www.senate.gov/sites/default/files/documents/os-jcomey-060817.pdf" on this server.

Reference #18.2dd21102.1496860533.4d55df66

It's working for me, but I notice the https is http in your quoted link - could that be it? I've attached the pdf to this post anyway

Igotadose

B0jangles wrote: »

It's working for me, but I notice the https is http in your quoted link - could that be it? I've attached the pdf to this post anyway

Thanks for the download. It give even more insight into how Trump operates.

Might be the most terrifying thing I've read in years. Comey is an honorable man. Whatever is the absolute 180 degree opposite of that, doesn't describe Trump well enough. Vito Corleone incarnate perhaps, short of the out-and-out murderous violence (as far as we know to date.)

Hank Scorpio

namloc1980 wrote: »

Nothing new in these that we didn't know already. A bit awkward and definitely inappropriate from Trump, but no smoking gun

Exactly, it's also clear why Trump fired him, he refused to say publicly Trump wasn't under investigation despite being told three times in private.

#1

"We did not have an open counter-intelligence case on [President-Elect Trump]. During our one-on-one meeting at Trump Tower, ... without him directly asking the question, I offered that assurance."

#2

(On 2nd one-on-one dinner meeting with Trump): "I replied that he should give [ordering a investigation into the Steel dossier] careful thought because it might create a narrative that we were investigating him personally, which we weren't."

#3

(phone call): "I explained that we had briefed the leadership of Congress on exactly which individuals we were investigating and that we had told those Congressional leaders that we were not personally investigating President Trump."

Trump will get some heat about the Flynn exchange, but that's about it.

Igotadose

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

Exactly, it's also clear why Trump fired him, he refused to say publicly Trump wasn't under investigation despite being told three times in private.

<snip>

Trump will get some heat about the Flynn exchange, but that's about it.

You left out the line about how they won't say he's not under investigation in case they have to walk that back in the future. Nor should the POTUS dictate to the head of the FBI what he should say about ongoing investigations - that's obstruction of investigation at least. Meeting with Comey after asking Sessions to leave first was amazingly unethical. You don't meet with the report after asking his boss to leave the room.

We'll see about what he gets heat for. Trump comes off pretty darn terrifying in the exchanges, a menacing, slimy goon. I'd seriously do some soul-searching before supporting anything Trump says or does going forward.

PropJoe10

namloc1980 wrote: »

Nothing new in these that we didn't know already. A bit awkward and definitely inappropriate from Trump, but no smoking gun

The details of the conversations are interesting. No smoking gun but it's pretty clear that:

a) Trump either has no understanding or no interest in what's appropriate and what isn't when dealing with a high ranking law enforcement official

b) Comey was fired because he didn't leak the fact that Trump wasn't personally under investigation as part of the Russia probe.

Looking forward to hearing what Comey has to say tomorrow!

Hank Scorpio

Igotadose wrote: »

You left out the line about how they won't say he's not under investigation in case they have to walk that back in the future. Nor should the POTUS dictate to the head of the FBI what he should say about ongoing investigations - that's obstruction of investigation at least. Meeting with Comey after asking Sessions to leave first was amazingly unethical. You don't meet with the report after asking his boss to leave the room.

We'll see about what he gets heat for. Trump comes off pretty darn terrifying in the exchanges, a menacing, slimy goon. I'd seriously do some soul-searching before supporting anything Trump says or does going forward.

Totally inappropriate yes, but for those fawning over the prospect of Comey nailing Trump tomorrow and revealing Trump is some sort of Kremlin agent, this falls far short.

Hank Scorpio

Also after reading the statement again, Comey says Trump considered ordering Comey to investigate the Russian connection so that Comey would be forced to investigate and then have to go on record with his findings. That to me doesn't sound like a person with something to hide, Comey let the rumors run wild and refused to publicly state he wasn't under investigation. My take from it is that Trump wanted a statement because it's stopping him from doing his job properly.

mcmoustache

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

Trump will get some heat about the Flynn exchange, but that's about it.

That's just the opening statement.

Leroy42

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

Igotadose wrote: »

You left out the line about how they won't say he's not under investigation in case they have to walk that back in the future. Nor should the POTUS dictate to the head of the FBI what he should say about ongoing investigations - that's obstruction of investigation at least. Meeting with Comey after asking Sessions to leave first was amazingly unethical. You don't meet with the report after asking his boss to leave the room.

We'll see about what he gets heat for. Trump comes off pretty darn terrifying in the exchanges, a menacing, slimy goon. I'd seriously do some soul-searching before supporting anything Trump says or does going forward.

Totally inappropriate yes, but for those fawning over the prospect of Comey nailing Trump tomorrow and revealing Trump is some sort of Kremlin agent, this falls far short.

But it shows that there is something there, that people or persons within the WH are under investigation and that Trump tried to abuse his position to influence an ongoing investigation.

Theres also the fact that Trump PR team tried to lie about the meeting and what Trump said.

Everytime the truth actually comes out it only serves to prove the veracity of the press story.

namloc1980

mcmoustache wrote: »

That's just the opening statement.

It covers all the interactions between Trump and Comey. It's inappropriate, ethically dodgy and typically ill-judged by Trump but no smoking gun. I'll be surprised if Comey comes out with a bombshell that hasn't been leaked or mentioned to date.

Inquitus

Leroy42 wrote: »

But it shows that there is something there, that people or persons within the WH are under investigation and that Trump tried to abuse his position to influence an ongoing investigation.

Theres also the fact that Trump PR team tried to lie about the meeting and what Trump said.

Everytime the truth actually comes out it only serves to prove the veracity of the press story.

Indeed for a president who's legislative agenda is going nowhere, this active and ongoing investigation will ensure lame duck status until the mid-terms. With a steady drip, drip, drip of negative stories, poor choices made, and many lies told.

mcmoustache

namloc1980 wrote: »

It covers all the interactions between Trump and Comey. It's inappropriate, ethically dodgy and typically ill-judged by Trump but no smoking gun. I'll be surprised if Comey comes out with a bombshell that hasn't been leaked or mentioned to date.

Same here. At most, I'm expecting confirmation (or denial) of what's in the public domain. He won't go beyond what Mueller has allowed. What he has allowed isn't certain but he won't say anything to jeopardise the investigation.

That in itself is important. Getting stuff on record under oath on national television has much more of an impact than a WaPo article on the internet.

CMOTDibbler

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

Also after reading the statement again, Comey says Trump considered ordering Comey to investigate the Russian connection so that Comey would be forced to investigate and then have to go on record with his findings. That to me doesn't sound like a person with something to hide, Comey let the rumors run wild and refused to publicly state he wasn't under investigation. My take from it is that Trump wanted a statement because it's stopping him from doing his job properly.

How is Comey going to investigate that? The Russians are hardly going to tell the FBI if they have compromisig material on Trump and what other source would be available?

ECO_Mental

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

Totally inappropriate yes, but for those fawning over the prospect of Comey nailing Trump tomorrow and revealing Trump is some sort of Kremlin agent, this falls far short.

Trump clearly asks comey to drop the Flynn investigation......that is obstruction of justice 101? Can you not see that????? See ya later Trumpski

CMOTDibbler

B0jangles wrote: »

It's working for me, but I notice the https is http in your quoted link - could that be it? I've attached the pdf to this post anyway

Thanks.

No, the address I used for the url is the https one. The response is from the server rather than the domain.

I'm using three as my ISP. A lot of three IPs are on blacklists.

Water John

The demand of 'personal loyality' is more insidious. He sees these things in terms of trade off. You can keep your job if things are run in my favour, was the message.

Really Interested

ECO_Mental wrote: »

Trump clearly asks comey to drop the Flynn investigation......that is obstruction of justice 101? Can you not see that????? See ya later Trumpski

But Hank does not even like Trump, he tells is all the time!!

namloc1980

ECO_Mental wrote: »

Trump clearly asks comey to drop the Flynn investigation......that is obstruction of justice 101? Can you not see that????? See ya later Trumpski

He said "I hope you can let this go". Anyway we know this already as the Comey memos have been in the public domain for a few weeks and the GOP have backed Trump saying "nothing to see here". It's dodgy and inappropriate but there's enough wriggle room for the GOP to avoid pushing the impeachment button. At least for now anyway.

mcmoustache

Water John wrote: »

The demand of 'personal loyality' is more insidious. He sees these things in terms of trade off. You can keep your job if things are run in my favour, was the message.

It's creepy but not illegal. Although it now means that the hearings can legitimately ask this of witnesses.

Closer to illegal but less sexy would be something like:

"I had understood the President to be requesting that we drop any investigation of Flynn in connection with false statements about his conversations with the Russian ambassador in December."

Overheal

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

Also after reading the statement again, Comey says Trump considered ordering Comey to investigate the Russian connection so that Comey would be forced to investigate and then have to go on record with his findings. That to me doesn't sound like a person with something to hide, Comey let the rumors run wild and refused to publicly state he wasn't under investigation. My take from it is that Trump wanted a statement because it's stopping him from doing his job properly.

And your response reads like cherry-picking, becauuuuse immediately after that, Comey expands on this point and speaks to your jump to response:

During the dinner, the President returned to the salacious material I had briefed him about on January 6, and, as he had done previously, expressed his disgust for the allegations and strongly denied them. He said he was considering ordering me to investigate the alleged incident to prove it didn’t happen. I replied that he should give that careful thought because it might create a narrative that we were investigating him personally, which we weren’t, and because it was very difficult to prove a negative. He said he would think about it and asked me to
think about it.

Further,

At one point, I explained why it was so important that the FBI and the Department of Justice be independent of the White House. I said it was a paradox: Throughout history, some Presidents have decided that because “problems” come from Justice, they should try to hold the Department close. But blurring those boundaries ultimately makes the problems worse by undermining public trust in the institutions and their work.

Seems to address your concerns. The body of the 2 phone calls both also explicitly debunk your theory that somehow Comey did this to damage the President's reputation?

I explained that we had briefed the leadership of Congress on
exactly which individuals we were investigating and that we had told those
Congressional leaders that we were not personally investigating President Trump.
I reminded him I had previously told him that. He repeatedly told me, “We need
to get that fact out.” (I did not tell the President that the FBI and the Department
of Justice had been reluctant to make public statements that we did not have an
open case on President Trump for a number of reasons, most importantly because
it would create a duty to correct, should that change.)

CMOTDibbler

Water John wrote: »

The demand of 'personal loyality' is more insidious. He sees these things in terms of trade off. You can keep your job if things are run in my favour, was the message.

It's not just the demand for loyalty. It's (as Comey said) the implication of patronage. Trump clearly believes that in doling out jobs to civil servants, he is owed something in return. I wonder will he try and push that agenda with his new pick for head of the FBI?

I suspect he'll be disappointed again.

namloc1980

mcmoustache wrote: »

It's creepy but not illegal. Although it now means that the hearings can legitimately ask this of witnesses.

Closer to illegal but less sexy would be something like:

"I had understood the President to be requesting that we drop any investigation of Flynn in connection with false statements about his conversations with the Russian ambassador in December."

I bet the GOP will just say Comey misunderstood what Trump meant. Guaranteed.

Ludo

Tis all a yuuuugely over-hyped anti-climax unfortunately. Trump is here for another 7.5 years. He will limp along from controversy to controversy and nothing will do him any real damage.

The intel chiefs refusing to answer questions today was much more damning than what will be said tomorrow I am guessing but still nothing provable or impeachable.

mcmoustache

namloc1980 wrote: »

I bet the GOP will just say Comey misunderstood what Trump meant. Guaranteed.

Well, Trump wanted to say it in private.

As the participants started to leave the Oval Office, the Attorney General lingered by my chair, but the President thanked him and said he wanted to speak only with me.

CMOTDibbler

Ludo wrote: »

The intel chiefs refusing to answer questions today was much more damning than what will be said tomorrow I am guessing but still nothing provable or impeachable.

They've just postponed their testimony to a closed session. They clearly have stuff to say, just not in public. It will be up to the committee to publish what they can at the end.

I actually can't see Trump even lasting one term. He's quite old and pretty unhealthily obese. The pressures of the job alone could take their toll on him. But that's completely disregarding the ongoing issues he is having actually carrying out his duties. More and more people are turning down 'opportunities' of working for him and there are still masses of jobs to be filled.

The whole damn thing could come crashing to a halt.