President 'The Donald' Trump and Surprising Consequences - Mod warning in OP

MightyMandarin

recedite wrote: »

Presumably Putin would have Kompromat material on all the Russian agents too. Or he'd put plutonium sugar lumps in their tea, or something.
I dunno, you'd have to ask that ex-MI6 guy. Why is he "ex-MI6" anyway. Was he fired, or what?

What? They work for him, why would he poison them? You can't tell if someone's going to double-cross you unless they tell someone, and only **** spies tell other people their real plans.

He left MI6 in 2009 of his own accord, like most spies incidentally, so that he could make more money having served his country for 20 years or so. If you actually did your research you'd also listen to accounts from other spies, both current and former, that he was a damn good one and he wouldn't just put a load of horse**** onto a paper he passes on.

He's also the one behind the downfall of FIFA last year, so he's also good at what he does in his current job.

KingBrian2

The posters keep going with the allegation that Russia hacked the Democratic Party when we don't know who did. The Chinese or the Iranians could easily have hacked the Democrats. The Chinese have a history of hacking foreign gvts and indeed stealing secrets from gvts while the Iranians have every reason to hack the Democrats. Iranian US relations are still very poor despite the deal agreed. It is incredulous to claim Russia is the chief hacker of the Democratic party. We have heard plenty of stories, rumours and the CIA have made their presence felt by adding their intel but we are still in the woods in terms of who hacked the Democrats. It could even have been a disgruntled Democrat taking revenge on his former party.

Billy86

MightyMandarin wrote: »

Well he encouraged them, that much is factual given that he said it a few times at his rallies.

If he has been colluding with them and gets found out for it, it's going to be pretty amusing seeing that come back to bite him in the ass (and also bemusing how the media never properly held him to it beyond a few days of clickbait approaches), and in that scenario my guess would be that it had Uncle Vlad pulling his hair scalp out when Trump thought he was being 'cute' with an = inside joke.

What really continues to surprise me is also how the campaign funds were not, and have continued to not be investigated further given that his campaign were caught out illegally soliciting funds via email to foreign politicians and made well aware of it, then months later were caught again soliciting funds, this time from foreign business people being offered the power to "whisper in the President's ear".

MightyMandarin

KingBrian2 wrote: »

The posters keep going with the allegation that Russia hacked the Democratic Party when we don't know who did. The Chinese or the Iranians could easily have hacked the Democrats. The Chinese have a history of hacking foreign gvts and indeed stealing secrets from gvts while the Iranians have every reason to hack the Democrats. Iranian US relations are still very poor despite the deal agreed. It is incredulous to claim Russia is the chief hacker of the Democratic party. We have heard plenty of stories, rumours and the CIA have made their presence felt by adding their intel but we are still in the woods in terms of who hacked the Democrats. It could even have been a disgruntled Democrat taking revenge on his former party.

Are you ****ing serious? Even that orange-skinned gob****e accepts that Russia hacked the DNC. Bloody hell some people on here just haven't got a donkey's what they're on about.

Billy86

MightyMandarin wrote: »

Are you ****ing serious? Even that orange-skinned gob****e accepts that Russia hacked the DNC. Bloody hell some people on here just haven't got a donkey's what they're on about.

All I can say is, sometimes the 'ignore' feature comes highly recommended.

oscarBravo

recedite wrote: »

Stupid question. You'll only know of its existence if they release it, at which point it has lost its blackmailing power.

That's a very blinkered approach to the question.

Assuming compromising material exists, and assuming that at some point in the future it is published, that would stop it from being effective after that point - but it wouldn't change the fact that it existed as leverage in the meantime. It also doesn't preclude the possibility of other, more compromising material continuing to exist and be withheld as ongoing leverage.

recedite wrote: »

Why is he "ex-MI6" anyway. Was he fired, or what?

You can't think of any way to become ex-MI6 (or ex-anything, for that matter) other than being fired?

MightyMandarin

Billy86 wrote: »

All I can say is, sometimes the 'ignore' feature comes highly recommended.

I honestly only have it on for a couple of shinnerbots, most of whom are perma-banned now anyway, but when I see nonsense posts like that I'm so tempted to do it.

It's actually unbelievable someone can believe something and just put zero thought into it. Like go ahead, be a Trump supporter; I have no problem with that at all, but at least have something of substance to back that up.

This clown though is towing the line Trump was towing up until 3 days ago because he obviously hasn't kept himself up to date.

El_Duderino 09

KingBrian2 wrote:

The posters keep going with the allegation that Russia hacked the Democratic Party when we don't know who did. The Chinese or the Iranians could easily have hacked the Democrats.

Trump accepts it was the Russians and his CIA director accepts it was the Russians. What would convince you that it was probably the Russians?

El_Duderino 09

Is it fair to assume that none of the trump supporting posters here would care if the allegations against trump were found to be true?

That seems to be he more important than whether this particular report is true or why Steele is ex-MI6

recedite

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

In my non-example we find out that the Russians hacked his opposition to help Trump and in exchange trump would help Russian interests. For example something like remove sanctions from Russia.

Trump would have been in favour of that anyway, because trade sanctions hurt both countries. Also Trump signalled long ago that he would be open to cooperation with Russia in Syria to destroy IS, instead of funding the rebels as the Obama administration were doing. And he would spend less US money on the Nato defence of Europe against the Russian "threat".
So for lots of reasons, Putin preferred Trump over Clinton. So did I.
But that does not mean Putin did the hacking, or that I did it.

But lets assume it was Putin's guys, as that seems plausible. Its still a "chicken and egg" situation. Your conspiracy theory alleges that Trump formed the above policies only after Putin offered to help him. That seems implausible to me.
It seems far more likely that Putin observed the two candidates, listened to what they were saying, and decided he preferred Trump. He couldn't do much to influence the american voter, but what little he could do was done to expose the crooked antics of Clinton against Sanders. Thereby reducing the turnout of Sander's supporters at the electoral process. Maybe it tilted the balance, and maybe not.

That is nothing compared to what the CIA have been doing for decades in other countries. Supporting right wing factions, training and installing puppets, and even outright regime change. All to promote USA interests.

Billy86

MightyMandarin wrote: »

I honestly only have it on for a couple of shinnerbots, most of whom are perma-banned now anyway, but when I see nonsense posts like that I'm so tempted to do it.

It's actually unbelievable someone can believe something and just put zero thought into it. Like go ahead, be a Trump supporter; I have no problem with that at all, but at least have something of substance to back that up.

This clown though is towing the line Trump was towing up until 3 days ago because he obviously hasn't kept himself up to date.

Well, to explicitly refer to posts previously made by this poster, he did once claim that Trump was all for religious tolerance and when shown Trumps 'ban all Muslims entering' statement from his official website, somehow claimed it was the media twisting his words. After this, a video of Trump reading that statement verbatim was shown to him, upon which he tried to claim Trump didn't mean to ban all Muslims and stated that it is because Muslims are not the problem. Then a week or two later on a slightly different, still Trump related topic, made claims about the US having a Muslim problem. So I'll just leave it at that and let you decide whether they're worth responding to or not (in which case the ignore feature can come in very handy).

KingBrian2

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Is it fair to assume that none of the trump supporting posters here would care if the allegations against trump were found to be true?

That seems to be he more important than whether this particular report is true or why Steele is ex-MI6

Well no the allegations could be true that the Democrats were hacked by Russia in which case it is an alarming incidence of intervening in America's politics. The only way to find out would be for an investigation conducted by the Democrats themselves, Congressional hearings actually bringing Trump to Washington to answer questions under oath or the Supreme court has the power to look into the entire election and determine if outsiders influenced the vote. Good part of America is that all of this is possible without kicking up fuss that Russia more specifically Putin bought the US election.

Water John

Well it seems both parties in the USA fully intend digging deep to find if there was any connections between candidates and Russia.
If any thing is found on DT, Republicans will sideline him, 'health reasons' and Mike Pence will takeover.

KingBrian2

Water John wrote: »

Well it seems both parties in the USA fully intend digging deep to find if there was any connections between candidates and Russia.
If any thing is found on DT, Republicans will sideline him, 'health reasons' and Mike Pence will takeover.

Sore losers and bad winners at play here i say. I want to see Team America, enough of this Russia nonsense.

El_Duderino 09

Thanks recedite. That's all I was looking for.

Does anyone know what would be beyond the pale for Trump?

King Brian said earlier that Trump would behave appropriately when he becomes president. Does anyone think he's behaviour will change at all or will expectations of presidential behaviour be adjusted to whatever trump does?

recedite

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Does anyone know what would be beyond the pale for Trump?

If he decided to continue US support of jihadist rebels in Syria.
Or if there was another jihadist mass shooting on US soil, and he blamed the gun laws and the NRA.
Or if he decided that so-called sanctuary city policies that violate federal law are a great idea.

AnGaelach

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

King Brian said earlier that Trump would behave appropriately when he becomes president. Does anyone think he's behaviour will change at all or will expectations of presidential behaviour be adjusted to whatever trump does?

I expect he'll still make outrageous statements on Twitter but I don't think he'll do anything that the Republican Party won't sign off on.

demfad

Here's a link to where Estonians have picked up that it's their secret service who recorded a Trump man and a leading member of the Duma in Orague. The other day Trump declared that his lawyer Cohen was not in Prague as per dossier. If the Estonians provide the U.S. media with a pick this will now wide open

http://news.err.ee/v/news/df22cea3-1c2e-4139-92ea-08f029af9f07/newsweek-estonian-foreign-intelligence-eavesdropped-on-russian-official-meeting-trump-associate

Amerika

Today I received an invitation to the inauguration swearing in for Trump and to one of the inaugural balls afterward. The wife wants to go but I don't want to be anywhere near DC that day.

ECO_Mental

Amerika wrote: »

Today I received an invitation to the inauguration swearing in for Trump and to one of the inaugural balls afterward. The wife wants to go but I don't want to be anywhere near DC that day.

Wow...they must be really stuck for people to go.

Can you sing a song? I hear also he looking for somone to sing a few tunes, appreantly its a very big weekend for weddings etc every body he called was booked out that weekend for some reason!

recedite

Amerika wrote: »

Today I received an invitation to the inauguration swearing in for Trump and to one of the inaugural balls afterward.

Mine must be still in the post.

mattser

Amerika wrote: »

Today I received an invitation to the inauguration swearing in for Trump and to one of the inaugural balls afterward. The wife wants to go but I don't want to be anywhere near DC that day.

Hope your wife enjoys the occasion. Roll on Friday 20th January 2017.

jimmycrackcorm

El_Duderino 09 wrote:

King Brian said earlier that Trump would behave appropriately when he becomes president. Does anyone think he's behaviour will change at all or will expectations of presidential behaviour be adjusted to whatever trump does?

As the saying goes, if it tweets like a duck...

El_Duderino 09 wrote:

This is what people want. 'Are you not entertained?'

Four years of great entertainment to look forward to.

recedite

Congressman Lewis says Trump is "not a legitimate President" and announces his intention to boycott the inauguration.

Now Trump has apparently "insulted"" Lewis for not bending over and taking this crap meekly.

El_Duderino 09

KingBrian2 wrote:

Well no the allegations could be true that the Democrats were hacked by Russia in which case it is an alarming incidence of intervening in America's politics. The only way to find out would be for an investigation conducted by the Democrats themselves, Congressional hearings actually bringing Trump to Washington to answer questions under oath or the Supreme court has the power to look into the entire election and determine if outsiders influenced the vote. Good part of America is that all of this is possible without kicking up fuss that Russia more specifically Putin bought the US election.

And in he meantime should trump remove he sanctions against Russia?

Should the order of events be to find out who actually did the hacks before removing sanctions against Russia or remove sanctions against Russia and see about the hacks later, if at all?

I'm still curious about whether trump supporters are happy about the conciliatory stance with Russia and a combative stance with China? Even after trump and his pick for CIA Director accept Russia was behind the hacks.

Tillerson said China building islands in the Pacific is equivalent to Russia invading Crimea. So do trump's supporters expect him to take a similar approach to both instances? Or do they expect him to do nothing about. Russian expansion but oppose Chinese islands?

El_Duderino 09

KingBrian2 wrote:

Well no the allegations could be true that the Democrats were hacked by Russia in which case it is an alarming incidence of intervening in America's politics. The only way to find out would be for an investigation conducted by the Democrats themselves,

KingBrian2 wrote:

Sore losers and bad winners at play here i say. I want to see Team America, enough of this Russia nonsense.

There have only been allegations so far. Don't you actually want them to find out what's true and what's not?

MightyMandarin

recedite wrote: »

Congressman Lewis says Trump is "not a legitimate President" and announces his intention to boycott the inauguration.

Now Trump has apparently "insulted"" Lewis for not bending over and taking this crap meekly.

What a FAKE reporting of this story you've just given, although I can't say I expected better from you.

Trump didn't insult John Lewis, he just insulted the entire black community of America saying that he of all people is 'all talk, no action'. John Lewis was one of the most active members of the civil rights campaign.

He also said he represents a 'struggling' community. Druid Hills, the Atlanta suburb he represents, is one of the most wealthy in Atlanta. Incidentally, I have relatives in the area and I visited it a few years ago. It's wealthy and completely unlike some of the other ghettos I past through in Atlanta.

But yeah, good job on your FAKE reporting.

Count Dooku

MightyMandarin wrote: »

He also said he represents a 'struggling' community. Druid Hills, the Atlanta suburb he represents, is one of the most wealthy in Atlanta. Incidentally, I have relatives in the area and I visited it a few years ago. It's wealthy and completely unlike some of the other ghettos I past through in Atlanta.

What about East Point and Forest Park, which he also represents?

MightyMandarin

Count Dooku wrote: »

What about East Point and Forest Park, which he also represents?

I don't know those areas, but I found some figures about the district.

Almost 750,000 people live there, according to the most recent estimates from the Census Bureau. The population is about 58 percent African-American, about one-third white and about 5 percent Asian.
The median household income is about $48,000 -- slightly higher than Georgia's median, but below the national median of $56,000. (The national median figure over the past five years has been about $54,000.)

About 1 in 6 families in the district lived in poverty in the previous year. The same dataset estimated the national rate to be about 1 family in 9.

The unemployment rate in the district was about 8.2 percent when the Census Bureau released its estimates last year for the American Community Survey’s 2015 one-year measurement. The same data set estimated the national unemployment rate at 6.3 percent, and the Georgia state rate at 7.1 percent. The national unemployment rate as of December, published by the federal Bureau of Labor Statistics, was 4.7 percent.

Nearly nine out of 10 residents of the Fifth District were high school graduates or had education beyond high school, and about four out of 10 residents had at least a bachelor's degree, according to Census estimates.

The largest single chunk of employed residents in Lewis' district, about half of the civilian work force, worked in a field grouped by the Census as "management, business, science, and arts occupations." The district includes Atlanta's downtown and main business district, and includes the headquarters of the Coca-Cola Company in Midtown and Delta Air Lines near Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport. It also covers the campuses of Georgia Tech and Emory University as well as the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and many of the city's major cultural and arts institutions.

The largest single sector employing people in the Fifth District is construction (12 percent), followed by "management and remediation services" (11.9 percent) and "management of companies and enterprises" (11.8).

In his Tweets about Lewis, Trump also hit on a continuing issue for Fifth District residents, Atlanta's crime problems, pegging the Fifth District as "crime-infested." Atlanta landed at No. 14 in the nation for its rate of violent crime when the Federal Bureau of Investigation released statistics last year that applied to 2015.

While overall crime in the city has been down, according to statistics cited by the Atlanta Police Department, Mayor Kasim Reed spoke last summer of a spike in the number of homicides and announced the creation of a gun violence task force.

But the rise in homicides in Atlanta mirrors a national trend in major cities across the country, and a New York Times analysis last year showed major jumps in murder rates in 25 of America's 100 biggest cities. Atlanta was not one of the 25.

The most recent violent crime rate for Atlanta and more than two dozen of its largest surrounding counties, according to the FBI, was 401 per 100,000 residents. That puts Atlanta at a rate similar to that of Clarksville, Tenn, which came in at 405. That's higher than the rate of the Dallas-Fort Worth area (338) but lower than Kansas City (536), Columbia, S.C. (651) and Columbus, Ga. (469).

In short, it's not a 'struggling' community like Trump claims.

El_Duderino 09

I'm sure a lot of people are happy to see Trump have a go at Lewis and his district and his legacy. not everyone thinks civil rights movements are a good thing and trump will only gain support from those people.

Mighty mandarin, the facts about the district aren't very important. Most people won't have heard about Lewis's district until yesterday. They heard from Trump that it's in a horrible state, full of blacks signified by "(crime ridden)" and represented by a civil rights campaigner.

The socially constructed reality is what matters here, not the dry facts. Dry facts are for pointy headed elites and can't really be used in a tweet. In short, Lewis's district is whatever Trump said it was yesterday