President 'The Donald' Trump and Surprising Consequences - Mod warning in OP

CMOTDibbler

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

Regardless of their interpretation and opinion, legal experts cited the contrary on the networks all day. Comey made it perfectly clear Trump encouraged the investigation and the investigation into fringe parties, and even if he never did that, there still wouldn't be a case.

I'll bet a friendly 50e charity bet if anyone actually believes there will be obstruction of justice charges based on today's hearing. More if you want.

You may be right. I wouldn't be basing a case on that fact alone, but the investigation is far from over and there were some questions that Comey wouldn't answer in open session:

The existence or not of a backdoor communication channel between the Trump campaign and the Russians.

If there were undisclosed meetings.

If there were attempts to conceal or destroy evidence.

If Trump colluded with the Russians.

If any of the allegations in the Steele document were true and if that document is being reviewed or investigated.

Why the FBI leadership decided not to talk to the AG about Trump's meetings with Comey.

That's not an exhaustive list.

Peregrinus

There will be no obstruction of justice charges out of today's hearing. But that's not really the point; "not actually criminal" is a piss-poor vindication for any President of the United States.

The question is not whether Trump is a criminal; the question is whether he is fit to be President of the United States. And nobody who would like to think that he is can possibly take any comfort from Comey's testimony.

Timberrrrrrrr

Peregrinus wrote: »

There will be no obstruction of justice charges out of today's hearing. But that's not really the point; "not actually criminal" is a piss-poor vindication for any President of the United States.

The question is not whether Trump is a criminal; the question is whether he is fit to be President of the United States. And nobody who would like to think that he is can possibly take any comfort from Comey's testimony.

I wonder will Hank change his stance on Bill Clinton's sexual indiscretions seeing as the bolded above could also relate to his time in the white house

Hank Scorpio

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

If any of the allegations in the Steele document were true and if that document is being reviewed or investigated.

Trump specifically pushed for that, Comey pushed back on it because the FBI were actively seeking during the campaign to pay/collaborate with Steele.

Really Interested

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

If that's what people are clinging to I feel bad for them.

For someone who a year ago had no idea of US politics and no idea who Trump was you are really invested in him that is a wee bit strange.

Hank Scorpio

Really Interested wrote: »

For someone who a year ago had no idea of US politics and no idea who Trump was you are really invested in him that is a wee bit strange.

Yes, the whole election was fascinating. I did follow Wikileaks long before that so the two just blended together.

Christy42

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

Regardless of their interpretation and opinion, legal experts cited the contrary on the networks all day. Comey made it perfectly clear Trump encouraged the investigation and the investigation into fringe parties*, and even if he never did that, there still wouldn't be a case.

I'll bet a friendly 50e charity bet if anyone actually believes there will be obstruction of justice charges based on today's hearing. More if you want.

* except Flynn

Comey also expressed the opinion that Trump fired him because of the Russian investigation which by itself is massively innapropriate (though as you say illegal).

Any link to the claim proceedings have begun against Comey?

Really Interested

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

Yes, the whole election was fascinating. I did follow Wikileaks long before that so the two just blended together.

So you followed wikileaks long before last year but you had no knowledge of Clinton?

Hank Scorpio

Christy42 wrote: »

* except Flynn

Comey also expressed the opinion that Trump fired him because of the Russian investigation which by itself is massively innapropriate (though as you say illegal).

Any link to the claim proceedings have begun against Comey?

Get your words right, Comey said he thought he fired him because of the way he was handling the investigation, my interpretation of that is not outing that Trump wasn't under investigation.

CMOTDibbler

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

Trump specifically pushed for that, Comey pushed back on it because the FBI were actively seeking during the campaign to pay/collaborate with Steele.

No, Trump pushed for the FBI to say they weren't true. Comey suggested that wasn't a good idea because of the difficulty in proving a negative. Also if some of the allegations were already known to be true, that would have been very damaging to Trump.

Comey possibly did him a favour there.

Hank Scorpio

Christy42 wrote: »

Any link to the claim proceedings have begun against Comey?

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/06/09/trumps-personal-lawyer-to-file-complaint-after-comey-testimony-source-says.html

Really Interested

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/06/09/trumps-personal-lawyer-to-file-complaint-after-comey-testimony-source-says.html

You said 'Hilarious, Comey hung himself and proceedings have begun against him for leaking."

A lawyer making a complaint is not that proceedings have begun. For a person who shouts fake news you misstate a few times.

Hank Scorpio

Really Interested wrote: »

So you followed wikileaks long before last year but you had no knowledge of Clinton?

Not in a broad political sense no. I think a lot of people became aware of them after the apache video.

Hank Scorpio

Really Interested wrote: »

You said 'Hilarious, Comey hung himself and proceedings have begun against him for leaking."

A lawyer making a complaint is not that proceedings have begun. For a person who shouts fake news you misstate a few times.

You seem inane on questioning me. Did something get your knickers in a twist?

CMOTDibbler

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/06/09/trumps-personal-lawyer-to-file-complaint-after-comey-testimony-source-says.html

Hmmm...

Comey’s excuse for this unauthorized disclosure of privileged information and appears to entirely retaliatory. We will leave it the appropriate authorities to determine whether this leaks should be investigated along with all those others being investigated.

A lot of hurdles to jump before this could be considered 'proceedings'.

Hank Scorpio

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Hmmm...



A lot of hurdles to jump before this could be considered 'proceedings'.

Fine, lets see what happens.

Really Interested

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

You seem inane on questioning me. Did something get your knickers in a twist?

I am so sorry I mistook your answers on a forum as a sign of interest.

It's funny when ever someone shows that your logic or claim is flawed you go and deflect! Funny that.

BabyCheeses

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

This thread might as well be called "Come bash Trump, those who don't conform not welcome"

You're free to talk about the great things Trump has done instead of parroting /r/the_donald script and have been for months.

Why do you think people aren't more positive about Trump? Could it be that he is just a bad president?

Call me Al

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Have they?

An unclassified recording of a meeting in writing leaked to the media is not a breach of the law. Comey is an experienced lawyer, you'd expect him to know what he can and cannot do.

He was asked about this and he explained specifically why he worked to keep his memos unclassified, all done for legitimate reasons well in advance of his firing. All the actions he took were appropriately and purposefully done.

He also disseminated the info through a law professor at Columbia. I think between them they know the intricacies of whether or not they broke the law, and if their actions could be robustly defended in the event they were arrested.

CMOTDibbler

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

Fine, lets see what happens.

Indeed.

I doubt James Comey is at all concerned about it. He's an extremely experienced lawyer and chose his words very carefully. Trump made him a private citizen by firing him and short of a memory wipe, can't stop him remembering and retelling his experiences of non-classified material.

Otherwise every public servant who ever wrote their memoirs after retirement would be in jail.

Hank Scorpio

Really Interested wrote: »

I am so sorry I mistook your answers on a forum as a sign of interest.

It's funny when ever someone shows that your logic or claim is flawed you go and deflect! Funny that.

I'm flawed but calling Drumpf a Russian agent without evidence for 6 months is logic, right you are.

Hank Scorpio

BabyCheeses wrote: »

You're free to talk about the great things Trump has done instead of parroting /r/the_donald script and have been for months.

What's that, that I thought the Russian collusion story was fabricated by the Dems and media?

So far I've been proven right.

Professor Moriarty

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

Regardless of their interpretation and opinion, legal experts cited the contrary on the networks all day. Comey made it perfectly clear Trump encouraged the investigation and the investigation into fringe parties, and even if he never did that, there still wouldn't be a case.

I'll bet a friendly 50e charity bet if anyone actually believes there will be obstruction of justice charges based on today's hearing. More if you want.

No, there probably won't. And Trump's 34% (new low) approval rating will probably remain much the same as that is hard core - mostly religious nuts (giggle), hillbillies, racists and the deluded - and as such would vote for him again. But this testimony, under oath and by a highly respected ex-head of the FBI, will further erode and alienate the middle ground.

The GOP's response has been a barrage of childish tweets by an unelected little rich kid talking about how hard a man his daddy is. And by Paul Ryan who said that Trump was "new to this". Pathetic and very obviously pathetic.

The middle ground looks at the pussy grabbing, egotistical, misogynistic, failed businessman, rich kid celebrity liar and they look at Comey, a dignified, highly educated and respected man with an impeccable record. And then they decide who to believe. The middle ground got him elected and they will be voting in 2018 as well as for the next POTUS. This is why Comey's testimony matters greatly.

Call me Al

Hank, why do you think Trump asked Comey to let go of the Flynn investigation?
Why would he do that, when he knew officially that Flynn was compromised?

Really Interested

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

I'm flawed but calling Drumpf a Russian agent without evidence for 6 months is logic, right you are.

Where have I called Trump a Russian agent?

I have followed Trump since the 80's was a huge fan of his at that time. But his Obama not a citizen crap, his sudden turn against the right to choose and his jumping into bed with the Born Again Muppets, well I just don't like him.

On the Russian issue there is for a fact evidence the Russians tried to influence the election, there is for a fact evidence that Trump and associates looked at Russia in the we should be friends way. I have never said there is evidence that Trump asked the Russians to help him in any illegal way.

Christy42

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

Get your words right, Comey said he thought he fired him because of the way he was handling the investigation, my interpretation of that is not outing that Trump wasn't under investigation.

Still massively inappropriate. Seriously. Comey may have suspected Trump would come under investigation soon. There are loads of reasons as to why Comey should not leak stuff like this to the press.

Sorry I had meant the handling of the investigation though as no matter who took over that was to continue.

That is not a good reason to fire him and then lie about it (it was initially claimed it was about the Clinton emails.

I am largely unsure if Trump worked with the Russians. If not he needs to have some serious care given how stupid he is going to their defense repeatedly against all evidence and lying for them (claiming he had proof of their innocence).

Hank Scorpio

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

The middle ground looks at the pussy grabbing, egotistical, misogynistic, failed businessman, rich kid celebrity liar and they look at Comey, a dignified, highly educated and respected man with an impeccable record. And then they decide who to believe. The middle ground got him elected and they will be voting in 2018 as well as for the next POTUS. This is why Comey's testimony matters greatly.

Yeah, that's rubbish imo. Dems have everything in the basket on this Russian story and no message.

Professor Moriarty

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

Yeah, that's rubbish imo.

Such a thoughtful and insightful deconstruction of my argument.

Leroy42

Mixed in with all the other stuff yesterday was the point made by Comey that it was very clear that Russia played a very active role in the elections. At at no time, despite numerous meetings and phone calls, Trump, the man charged with protecting the democracy, has shown no inclination to even wonder what can be done about it.

What could be the reason for this? Why would POTUS, when presented with clear evidence that a foreign power had tried to meddle in the very core of America, why we he not even be bothered about it. Forget collusion, forget HC, it seems that every IA and most commentators accept that Russia tried through various means to influence to election.

Russia would only do this do further their own agenda, so it cannot be to the advantage of the US.

And yet Trump seems totally unmoved. Either he doesn't care, a clear dereliction of his oath of office, or he has something to hide and doesn't want to turn over that rock.

Also, the GOP and Trump need to also consider just how big an event this was in the US yesterday. Full TV coverage, many reports of people take the time off to watch it live. There was a huge amount of interest in this. That can only be because many people have grave questions about Trump. Its not the scandal that kills you, it the fact that people even think the scandal could be true.

For example, it wasn't the facts that brought Bertie down in the end, it was the loss of the credibility that eventually meant that no one was willing to bat for him anymore. You ask most people what the outcome of that tribunal was and many wouldn't be able to tell anymore that some summary. But it was the perception in the mind of the public.

Hank Scorpio

Christy42 wrote: »

That is not a good reason to fire him and then lie about it (it was initially claimed it was about the Clinton emails.

I am largely unsure if Trump worked with the Russians. If not he needs to have some serious care given how stupid he is going to their defense repeatedly against all evidence and lying for them (claiming he had proof of their innocence).

I think it's a perfectly understandable explanation for firing him, he refused to publicly state Trump wasn't under investigation. He refused to investigate leakers. Meanwhile there's leaks (many of which turn out to be rubbish) in the media every day undermining him. Impossible situation, it makes sense to me.

Second bit, I'm not sure either but my gut tells me he didn't.