President 'The Donald' Trump and Surprising Consequences - Mod warning in OP

Harika

Amerika wrote: »

270 electoral votes.

The popular vote is a meaningless and irrelevant statistic, unless you're a sore loser, that is. And we don't know who would have won an actual popular vote if it was the criteria needed to win the election. Because if we selected our president based on a popular vote, politicians would campaign for it an would probably neglect the majority of states. Therefore there's no guarantee that Clinton would have won a popular vote if that were the means to victory.

I also find this discussion unnecessary and only serves to undermine the role for the only reason of being a sore loser. It also undermines the next president who could be your champ.
Also the arithmetic debate lacks brain like e.g. Last election <insert candidate here> only 80% voted where 60% of the country is eligible to vote. The candidate received 40% of votes so only 20% of the country support him. But if you think closely, woman should't vote anyway, so we are down to 10%, travelers also no good, down to 8. Pensioners also shouldn't vote for the future of the country. And we are down to 5, below 21 also stupid, down to 3. Partymembers don't count either. So only 1% voted for the candidate so impeachment!!!!
If you think Trumps policies are bad, fine to demonstrate against it.

recedite

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

He could afford to sacrifice the Blacks, and Hispanics for example, as long as he reinforced his core demographic.

Meh... it turned out that a lot of the "black" vote stayed at home (now that Obama is leaving the stage) and most of the "Hispanics" turned out to be Cubans or other non-Mexicans who actually preferred to vote Republican/Trump.

El_Duderino 09

recedite wrote:

Meh... it turned out that a lot of the "black" vote stayed at home (now that Obama is leaving the stage) and most of the "Hispanics" turned out to be Cubans or other non-Mexicans who actually preferred to vote Republican/Trump.

Whoosh again

Panrich

The republicans are in a tough spot right now. If they back Trump in his wall building and appeasement of Russia then they'll suffer a backlash but if they don't they'll also suffer.

El_Duderino 09

Panrich wrote:

The republicans are in a tough spot right now. If they back Trump in his wall building and appeasement of Russia then they'll suffer a backlash but if they don't they'll also suffer.

The head of their party isn't one of them. They need to pretend his ideas are true ideas, or else they need to oppose him.
They have a tiger by the tail.

Amerika

A not-so-surprising consequence of the Trump win is the announcement that the Clinton Global Initiative is shutting down in a few short months. To many of us not blinded by devotion to Hillary, the CGI and particularly the Clinton Foundation in general was merely a front for the Hillary for President Campaign, getting the majority of big donations from countries and individuals who felt they could parlay their money into political favors. It would be of no surprise that if Hillary lost the campaign, contributions would dry up, and the pay to play scheme would come to a close... Which evidently, is just what has happened.

recedite

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

You didn't read what I said at all did you?

I was saying that he doesn't need to keep half the country happy as long as he keeps his key voters happy. ..
He can keep saying things that make 75% shudder ...

Explain why he has to keep the 25% happy.
He has already got himself elected. He could sit back and do nothing, just leave his advisors to make the decisions. But I doubt he will do that.
He is not restrained by the citizens who voted for him, nor is he now required to "keep them happy".
He is restrained by the Constitution and by Federal laws. If he acts improperly towards the majority of citizens who either didn't bother voting or who voted for Clinton, he can be impeached. That's the significance of the USA being a republic, and not just a democracy.

Elemonator

I'm actually glad of the possible relations with Russia. For a long time in the West and especially in the Cold War, we have always been told the Russians are coming. I don't think your average Russians are deserving of constant berating by the West.

Professor Moriarty

Elemonator wrote: »

I'm actually glad of the possible relations with Russia. For a long time in the West and especially in the Cold War, we have always been told the Russians are coming. I don't think your average Russians are deserving of constant berating by the West.

Winter is coming. Well, global warming actually. Trump, Putin, Brexit and the rest are just a distraction. Just keep eating the popcorn.

Zubeneschamali

Elemonator wrote: »

I don't think your average Russians are deserving of constant berating by the West.

Nor does anyone else - but the opinion of the average Russian is neither here nor there.

Putin, on the other hand...

El_Duderino 09

Elemonator wrote:

I'm actually glad of the possible relations with Russia. For a long time in the West and especially in the Cold War, we have always been told the Russians are coming. I don't think your average Russians are deserving of constant berating by the West.

You hold the average people responsible for their governments actions?

Harika

Elemonator wrote: »

I'm actually glad of the possible relations with Russia. For a long time in the West and especially in the Cold War, we have always been told the Russians are coming. I don't think your average Russians are deserving of constant berating by the West.

Between 1990 and 2008 the relations were quite good, but then Putin decided to make Russia great again and it went downhill. Since the Krim Annexion, the eastern european countries are quite aware what is waiting east of them, but could be sure of Nato support, something Trump now questions. Will be interesting too see if he can go against the military complex to get out of that.

Elemonator

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

You hold the average people responsible for their governments actions?

It was never intended to be interpreted that way but at the end of the day they do elect them but that is besides my point. I just think the general image of Russia as some evil backward nation has always been perpetuated by the West.

recedite

Amerika wrote: »

A not-so-surprising consequence of the Trump win is the announcement that the Clinton Global Initiative is shutting down in a few short months...

Australia and Norway stopped contributing. Its not quite clear what they were getting out of it, and now that Trump has said he won't be investigating any of the Clinton's foundations we may never know exactly. Perhaps licences to get the latest US weaponry, perhaps more.
Other big contributors from the Arab world such as Saudi, Quatar etc seem to have generally "done well" in recent years, as opposed to those who failed to contribute such as Syria, Libya, Iran and our old friend Saddam Hussein.

Stealthfins

Elemonator wrote:

It was never intended to be interpreted that way but at the end of the day they do elect them but that is besides my point. I just think the general image of Russia as some evil backward nation has always been perpetuated by the West.

My sister in law is Russian.
What was perpetuated from the west was a lot of lies.

In the Soviet Union they were never hungry,cold or felt like they were hard pressed.

Her mother was an engineer,her father a scientist.

Her uncle was a cleaner,all had the same lifestyle everyone contributed to society.

Unlike the top knobs here taking everything for themselves and the bottom feeders scrounging.

She seen an old clip on RTE of Russia during the 80's and she said the sign posts and city in question wasn't even Russia it was some other place in the East of Europe maybe Latvia or Estonia

Harika

Stealthfins wrote: »

She seen an old clip on RTE of Russia during the 80's and she said the sign posts and city in question wasn't even Russia it was some other place in the East of Europe maybe Latvia or Estonia

What was part of Soviet Union and controlled from Moscow. The people from DDR can tell you that food was always there, just not enough of everything. People queues to buy anything, sometimes toilet paper then meat. I think barter was quite usual. There a the joke going around with that the further away you were from Berlin, where Bananas were available, Bananas were sold by painting cucumbers yellow and no one noticed the difference as they never knew a real one.

Inquitus

So NATO and the EU now in Trump's crosshairs, does he really want to upend 2 organisations that have successfully kept world peace for decades, if Putin had a wishlist these 2 items would be at the top, hard to imagine how a US President could think the destruction of either is a good thing for the world.

El_Duderino 09

Inquitus wrote:

So NATO and the EU now in Trump's crosshairs, does he really want to upend 2 organisations that have successfully kept world peace for decades, if Putin had a wishlist these 2 items would be at the top, hard to imagine how a US President could think the destruction of either is a good thing for the world.

It points towards Putin's plans to expand West and Trump's intention to do nothing to oppose him. What harm does NATO do to Russia except in the event of Russian expansion west?

For all the talk about having good relations with Russia, where us the talk of having good relations with Europe? I haven't seen much. Trump us delighted with the UK'S brexit decision, why? Because it weakens Europe and the UK is just one country. It chops away at their ability to work together and they can be payed off against each other in a race to the bottom to secure contracts.

There's nothing good about trump from the perspective of peach and prosperity in Europe, that much is certain.

It's a long way from Bill Clinton making a serious effort to bring about peace in NI. This guy thrives on uncertainty and disunity in his competitors. It's incredible that some people actually want this type of leadership.

demfad

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

It points towards Putin's plans to expand West and Trump's intention to do nothing to oppose him. What harm does NATO do to Russia except in the event of Russian expansion west?

For all the talk about having good relations with Russia, where us the talk of having good relations with Europe? I haven't seen much. Trump us delighted with the UK'S brexit decision, why? Because it weakens Europe and the UK is just one country. It chops away at their ability to work together and they can be payed off against each other in a race to the bottom to secure contracts.

There's nothing good about trump from the perspective of peach and prosperity in Europe, that much is certain.

It's a long way from Bill Clinton making a serious effort to bring about peace in NI. This guy thrives on uncertainty and disunity in his competitors. It's incredible that some people actually want this type of leadership.

Trump is controlled in the US by Bannon etc and from Moscow by Putin.
Both have a world view of nation states with a religious right social ideology.
The EU is a joint sworn enemy.

Inquitus

demfad wrote: »

Trump is controlled in the US by Bannon etc and from Moscow by Putin.
Both have a world view of nation states with a religious right social ideology.
The EU is a joint sworn enemy.

Back to the dark ages then.....

conditioned games

Harika wrote: »

Between 1990 and 2008 the relations were quite good, but then Putin decided to make Russia great again and it went downhill. Since the Krim Annexion, the eastern european countries are quite aware what is waiting east of them, but could be sure of Nato support, something Trump now questions. Will be interesting too see if he can go against the military complex to get out of that.

The US had good relations with Russia during that period but when Russia was setting up the Eurasian free trade area and BRICS then all of a sudden Russia became enemy number 1 under the Obama administration. It was later through US sponsorship of neo nazi groups in Ukraine that led to the overthrow of a democratically elected government and brought about the civil war in that country.


It was the US that helped create ISIS in Iraq and Syria so Assad would be overthrown paving the way for the gas pipe line from Qatar to Europe which Russia then intervened bombing the militants. In the last 6/7 years the anti Russian propaganda has been very noticeable through the controlled mainstream media.

Frank Bullitt

http://www.someecards.com/entertainment/music/three-doors-down-inauguration-reaction/

Slightly off topic, but related and good for a laugh.

Jan_de_Bakker

Gintonious wrote: »

http://www.someecards.com/entertainment/music/three-doors-down-inauguration-reaction/

Slightly off topic, but related and good for a laugh.

I wonder will the PROGRESSIVE LIBERALS scare these guys away with their death threats like the did Andrea Bocelli ... such peaceful tolerant free thinking liberals ...

Frank Bullitt

Jan_de_Bakker wrote: »

I wonder will the PROGRESSIVE LIBERALS scare these guys away with their death threats like the did Andrea Bocelli ... such peaceful tolerant free thinking liberals ...

I guess the joke is lost on you.

Frank Bullitt

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/bruce-springsteen-cover-band-drops-out-of-donald-trump-party-w461203

And now the bloody COVER band have pulled out!

Valord

Jan_de_Bakker wrote: »

I wonder will the PROGRESSIVE LIBERALS scare these guys away with their death threats like the did Andrea Bocelli ... such peaceful tolerant free thinking liberals ...

Nobody scared away Andrea Bocelli. He was never booked to perform at all. He offered to perform to Trump and Trump turned him down.

ECO_Mental

Gintonious wrote: »

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/bruce-springsteen-cover-band-drops-out-of-donald-trump-party-w461203

And now the bloody COVER band have pulled out!

Now thats embarrassing......

eire4

demfad wrote: »

Trump is controlled in the US by Bannon etc and from Moscow by Putin.
Both have a world view of nation states with a religious right social ideology.
The EU is a joint sworn enemy.

and a far right economic agenda that embraces the privatization of almost every public service, cutting social welfare and getting rid of regulations that protect both the public and the environment. Basically turning society into a neo feudal state run by an Oligarchic elite at the expense of the vast majority or the population.

ligerdub

Could somebody explain something to me? Why is it that people are going on about Trump being a Putin puppet because he is looking to leave Russia be, but the same criticism is rather lower in volume when it comes to consistent and downright support of expansionist policies followed by Israel followed in perpetuity by US Presidents? (Ideally sticking to that question rather than tangents about being some sort of sexual deviant and thin-skinned individual etc.)

Why would it be a problem at all for the United States to just say "right, we aren't going to police this anymore, we are going to focus on improving things closer to home"? Why has it become that the US is now expected or indeed asked to intervene in these things? It's a relatively new thing. In fact, going back to the 1940's you'll find that the vast majority of people in the US, including their government, felt that the war in Europe had nothing to do with them. So why now?

Perhaps if it were left to more of a consensus view in global affairs rather than one country dictating terms the world would be a better place.

baaba maal

But he isn't disengaging with global geopolitics- as he cosies up to Putin, he is simultaneously ramping up the antagonism towards China- clearly attempting to show that the US is the boss in that situation.