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President 'The Donald' Trump and Surprising Consequences - Mod warning in OP

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    #1052
    MightyMandarin
    Registered Users Posts: 3,723 ✭✭✭MightyMandarin


    Yourself isit wrote: »
    The logan act seems to apply when there are negotiations on treaties etc. Was that the case here?



    It was unsubstantiated nonsense written as if by a child. The faux left love affair with the CIA and MI5/6 would be humerous were it not tragic.

    (Although I'd like to welcome you all back to anti-Americanism come Friday. It's been lonely.)

    The Logan Act requires permission from the US Govt. when meeting with foreign reps to discuss policy. Michael Flynn had no such authorisation and thus broke a felony. Fact.

    Yeah, yeah keep believing what Trump and his team of propagandists promulgate. Go read what MI6's chief said about Steele last week, go read the accounts from his former fellow spies, the CIA and FBI. They mightn't have confirmed what he collected what was true, even he couldn't verify it 100%, but they all say he's as credible a source as you'll find.

    But nah it's just 'fake news made by buzzfeed'.


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    #1053
    Inquitus
    Registered Users Posts: 13,754 ✭✭✭✭Inquitus


    Trump wants military parades, allegedly........

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-military-parades-major-us-cities-president-authoritarian-a7533476.html


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    #1054
    Yourself isit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,257 ✭✭✭Yourself isit


    MightyMandarin wrote: »
    The Logan Act requires permission from the US Govt. when meeting with foreign reps to discuss policy. Michael Flynn had no such authorisation and thus broke a felony. Fact.

    Yeah, yeah keep believing what Trump and his team of propagandists promulgate. Go read what MI6's chief said about Steele last week, go read the accounts from his former fellow spies, the CIA and FBI. They mightn't have confirmed what he collected what was true, even he couldn't verify it 100%, but they all say he's as credible a source as you'll find.

    But nah it's just 'fake news made by buzzfeed'.

    Not published outside buzz feed though as a the other outlets were far from convinced. Despite the "brilliance" of Steele.

    As for the logan act when did Flynn meet the Russians? Apparently Dec 29th. Did Flynn actually negotiate a treaty. Or did he have a discussion as a future government official? Don't all president elects (and teams) make phone calls to their respective numbers abroad?

    Not much there. I still am yet to see an answer to how Russia hacked the primaries. Third time asking.


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    #1055
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    I could just imagine President Trump saluting from his podium, on a frosty morning and wearing a fur hat, as the latest military hardware parades down Red Times Square. :D


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    #1056
    Lemming
    Registered Users Posts: 14,148 ✭✭✭✭Lemming


    Yourself isit wrote: »
    Not much there. I still am yet to see an answer to how Russia hacked the primaries. Third time asking.

    Bit of a strawman question. I sincerely doubt that anybody who has any sort of hard-fact knowledge on the "how" (either definitively proving or disproving whichever way the case may be) is going to ever post about it on boards.ie, much less to satisfy your grand-standing on the matter.


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    #1057
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    Lemming wrote: »
    Bit of a strawman question. I sincerely doubt that anybody who has any sort of hard-fact knowledge on the "how" (either definitively proving or disproving whichever way the case may be) is going to ever post about it on boards.ie, much less to satisfy your grand-standing on the matter.
    Particularly as they do not qualify Donald Trump talking about his meeting with Putin, or Donald Trump Jr's talking about their many dealings with Russia, as any sort of evidence of Trump having met with Putin or having any dealings with Russia (and seem to be side-stepping answering the latter one themselves).


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    #1058
    alphasully
    Registered Users Posts: 120 ✭✭alphasully


    MightyMandarin wrote:
    Now tell how the **** is this anything like claiming a, soon to be former, president was born in Africa despite having been raised in Hawaii by a single American mother and lived in America all his life, plus the fact that he actually published his own birth cert to disprove that junk conspiracy?

    I hate to be pedantic but I'm pretty sure Obama spent some of his formative years growing up in Indonesia. I am open to correction on that.


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    #1059
    MightyMandarin
    Registered Users Posts: 3,723 ✭✭✭MightyMandarin


    Yourself isit wrote: »
    Not published outside buzz feed though as a the other outlets were far from convinced. Despite the "brilliance" of Steele.

    As for the logan act when did Flynn meet the Russians? Apparently Dec 29th. Did Flynn actually negotiate a treaty. Or did he have a discussion as a future government official? Don't all president elects (and teams) make phone calls to their respective numbers abroad?

    Not much there. I still am yet to see an answer to how Russia hacked the primaries. Third time asking.

    Whether you believe the contents of the files or not is irrelevant. The fact is a source, which the authorities deemed so credible that the authorities deemed so credible they took it to the President say that Trump may be compromised. If you don't put any value in that that's fine, but it's purely down to your ignorance, not the uncredibility of the yource.

    On Dec. 28th, the same day Obama kicked a bunch of bureaucrats out Flynn met with the Russian ambassador in secret to discuss their relationship with the Administration. The fact you don't even know the date shows how ill-informed you are on the matter. Therefore you shouldn't comment on it as you have no idea what's going on.

    You asked me once already a few posts back, no need to get pissy over it.

    I never claimed the RNC was hacked during the primaries, nor that Trump won the nomination illegitimately. My issues has always been with the general election, while you scrape the bottom of the barrel looking for any excuse to continue your blind belief that this guy isn't a traitor and a russian puppet.


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    #1060
    MightyMandarin
    Registered Users Posts: 3,723 ✭✭✭MightyMandarin


    alphasully wrote: »
    I hate to be pedantic but I'm pretty sure Obama spent some of his formative years growing up in Indonesia. I am open to correction on that.

    I think he lived there for 2 years or so, but yeah I was wrong saying he lived there all his life.


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    #1061
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 20,236 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    KingBrian2 wrote:
    I do expect him to rise to the occasion and treat the position of President with honour. I might dislike American democracy though as President of America he deserves to be listened to. I want to see him working with Congress and reconnecting with other parts of the world.

    I'm still curious about what this means. If you think he'll treat he position of president with honour, does that mean he'll change anything about his current behaviour or will standards for 'honour' be adjusted to meet whatever Trump does?

    I'm particularly curious because we have heard for months now that he would be 'very presidential', both from himself and his supporters. Does anyone want to make any predictions about what that would actually look like?

    Would Trump's supporters be happy with him changing his behaviour.


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    #1062
    Rezident
    Registered Users Posts: 1,793 ✭✭✭Rezident


    Many Americans have treated Obama so badly I’m afraid they will not appreciate him until he is gone. Well, they may soon wish they had him back. I can see this being the beginning of the end for America, unthinkable a year ago, whether it takes ten or twenty years, it has begun. Say what you want about the US but they are the closest thing we have to the Good Guy on the world stage. Russia and China et all must be rubbing their hands with glee.


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    #1063
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,176 ✭✭✭Amerika


    Rezident wrote: »
    Many Americans have treated Obama so badly I’m afraid they will not appreciate him until he is gone. Well, they may soon wish they had him back. I can see this being the beginning of the end for America, unthinkable a year ago, whether it takes ten or twenty years, it has begun. Say what you want about the US but they are the closest thing we have to the Good Guy on the world stage. Russia and China et all must be rubbing their hands with glee.

    Well, that’s one way of looking at things. Another, and probably more accurate, is Obama’s legacy will be one of a failed presidency. Since he has taken office the US has a weaker economically, is more divided socially, and more disrespected across the globe. He has made the wrong choices in just about every area he's involved himself in. And like it or not, his failed executive legacy has given us Donald Trump.


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    #1064
    demfad
    Registered Users Posts: 3,182 ✭✭✭demfad


    Not good news for Humpty Trumpty out yesterday.
    http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/article127231799.html
    Net tightening.....
    The agencies involved in the inquiry are the FBI, the CIA, the National Security Agency, the Justice Department, the Treasury Department’s Financial Crimes Enforcement Network and representatives of the director of national intelligence, the sources said
    Susan Hennessey, a former attorney for the National Security Agency who is now a fellow at the Brookings Institution, said she had no knowledge as to whether a Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act warrant had been issued in the investigation of Russian influence. However, she said such warrants were issued only if investigators could establish “probable cause” that the target was a foreign power or its agent and that the surveillance was likely to produce foreign intelligence. She said the information in Steele’s dossier couldn’t have met that test.

    “If, in fact, law enforcement has obtained a FISA warrant, that is an indication that additional evidence exists outside of the dossier,” she said.


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    #1065
    Harika
    Registered Users Posts: 4,442 ✭✭✭Harika


    Amerika wrote: »
    Well, that’s one way of looking at things. Another, and probably more accurate, is Obama’s legacy will be one of a failed presidency. Since he has taken office the US has a weaker economically, is more divided socially, and more disrespected across the globe. He has made the wrong choices in just about every area he's involved himself in. And like it or not, his failed executive legacy has given us Donald Trump.

    I agree that America is now more socially divided and less disrespected across the globe, but that is a trend that started far before Obama. Emmanuel Todd predicted this 15 years ago in his book "After the Empire: The Breakdown of the American Order", he predicts that USA is going to lose the title of the last superpower, as it loses military, economic and ideological qualities. That results in increasing unreliability and aggression, what leads to an emancipation of Europe, Japan, Arabia, China and Russia who will form a coalition to lead the way.
    US won't lose this role in the next four years, or even eight, it will take decades, but the trend shows China catching up and working unified, while US and EU are divided from the inside, what Trump won't change but even more intensify.
    How to stop it? Dan Carlin, mentioned in a podcast, when comparing the roman empire and how it fell, compared to the US, that what can be done to stop it, is is basically everyone's guess. The romans discussed it for centuries and failed, so no.


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    #1066
    demfad
    Registered Users Posts: 3,182 ✭✭✭demfad


    6 Intel agencies investigating Trump campaign team now #impeachment
    Susan Hennessey, a former attorney for the National Security Agency who is now a fellow at the Brookings Institution, said she had no knowledge as to whether a Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act warrant had been issued in the investigation of Russian influence. However, she said such warrants were issued only if investigators could establish “probable cause” that the target was a foreign power or its agent and that the surveillance was likely to produce foreign intelligence. She said the information in Steele’s dossier couldn’t have met that test.

    “If, in fact, law enforcement has obtained a FISA warrant, that is an indication that additional evidence exists outside of the dossier,” she said.

    Read more here: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/article127231799.html#storylink=cpy


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    #1067
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,371 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    Amerika wrote: »
    Well, that’s one way of looking at things. Another, and probably more accurate, is Obama’s legacy will be one of a failed presidency. Since he has taken office the US has a weaker economically, is more divided socially, and more disrespected across the globe. He has made the wrong choices in just about every area he's involved himself in. And like it or not, his failed executive legacy has given us Donald Trump.

    Much of what you say above is, with respect, nonsensical in my opinion but I don't want to get into a long discussion about Obama's legacy.

    However, I'm intrigued by your last claim. So it will be Obama's fault when Trump messes up?


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    #1068
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,176 ✭✭✭Amerika


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    Much of what you say above is, with respect, nonsensical in my opinion but I don't want to get into a long discussion about Obama's legacy.

    However, I'm intrigued by your last claim. So it will be Obama's fault when Trump messes up?

    Sorry, but it's all true.

    No it will not be Obama's fault if Trump messes up. It is Obama's fault we got Trump.


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    #1069
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,371 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    Amerika wrote: »
    Sorry, but it's all true.

    No it will not be Obama's fault if Trump messes up. It is Obama's fault we got Trump.

    Nothing to do with fake news, a craven GOP or deluded voters?


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    #1070
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,176 ✭✭✭Amerika


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    Nothing to do with fake news, a craven GOP or deluded voters?

    Trump is Obama’s real legacy. Obama's bad policies ran his party into the ground (evidenced by the Democrat’s loss of the House, the Senate, over 900 state legislature seats, and 12 governorships), and directed his successor in the candidacy (to try and continue his failed policies), to be a greatly flawed Hillary Clinton who ran on Obama’s legacy, hatred for Trump, and being above the law. The stagnant economy under his administration bred hopelessness, especially amongst blue collar workers. He cultivated the sense of a diminished America. Massive overregulations were job killers and most everyone hates ObamaCare. Not to mention race relations have only gotten worse. Obama gave us Trump.


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    #1071
    KingBrian2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,363 ✭✭✭KingBrian2


    Pres Obama made some mistakes however he was not helped by Congress which is the most important part of the gvt. He came under massive resistance getting his laws passed. You would image a President who came in with a massive mandate would have been able to enact more stringent safeguards to America's democracy and world peace.


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    #1072
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,371 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    Amerika wrote: »
    Trump is Obama’s real legacy. Obama's bad policies ran his party into the ground (evidenced by the Democrat’s loss of the House, the Senate, over 900 state legislature seats, and 12 governorships), and directed his successor in the candidacy (to try and continue his failed policies), to be a greatly flawed Hillary Clinton who ran on Obama’s legacy, hatred for Trump, and being above the law. The stagnant economy under his administration bred hopelessness, especially amongst blue collar workers. He cultivated the sense of a diminished America. Massive overregulations were job killers and most everyone hates ObamaCare. Not to mention race relations have only gotten worse. Obama gave us Trump.

    Ok. So how do you explain Obama's approval rating of 60% as he leaves office (twice as high as his Republican predecessor's)? How does this contrast with Trump's Transition approval rating of 48% (Obama 75%, GWB 65%, Clinton 67%). It would seem that a large majority disagree with you.


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    #1073
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,176 ✭✭✭Amerika


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    Ok. So how do you explain Obama's approval rating of 60% as he leaves office (twice as high as his Republican predecessor's)? How does this contrast with Trump's Transition approval rating of 48% (Obama 75%, GWB 65%, Clinton 67%). It would seem that a large majority disagree with you.

    Obama's a nice guy... I'll give him that. But his governance is reflected in the election results.


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    #1074
    Harika
    Registered Users Posts: 4,442 ✭✭✭Harika


    Amerika wrote: »
    Obama's a nice guy... I'll give him that. But his governance is reflected in the election results.

    Did people vote on his legacy or was it a decision between Trump and Clinton? Would have a different candidate had different outcomes? Like would have Rubio defeated Sanders in the same way?


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    #1075
    eire4
    Registered Users Posts: 6,710 ✭✭✭eire4


    Amerika wrote: »
    Obama's a nice guy... I'll give him that. But his governance is reflected in the election results.

    He won both elections he contested and judging on his popularity ratings and the lack of on the part of Trump he most likely would have won again if he had of been able to run for a third term in office.


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    #1076
    KingBrian2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,363 ✭✭✭KingBrian2


    eire4 wrote: »
    He won both elections he contested and judging on his popularity ratings and the lack of on the part of Trump he most likely would have won again if he had of been able to run for a third term in office.

    He also ran on a Nationalist platform just like Trump so jobs for Americans was a popular message. His demographic like Trump were the unemployed denizens of the United States of America.


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    #1077
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,176 ✭✭✭Amerika


    KingBrian2 wrote: »
    Pres Obama made some mistakes however he was not helped by Congress which is the most important part of the gvt. He came under massive resistance getting his laws passed. You would image a President who came in with a massive mandate would have been able to enact more stringent safeguards to America's democracy and world peace.
    Remember the Democrats controlled both the House and the Senate at the beginning of Obama's term. He could have gotten done almost anything he wanted.

    And remember how Obama started off with Republicans, and his construct of Elections matter -- I won; you lost -- Deal with it?

    But the funny thing is, if it’s all the Republican’s fault for Obama's failings, why then did the take the House, then the Senate, then the Presidency, not to mention all the state legislatures and governorships. Something doesn’t jive in that reasoning.

    Perhaps the Russians did it.


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    #1078
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,371 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    KingBrian2 wrote: »
    He also ran on a Nationalist platform just like Trump so jobs for Americans was a popular message. His demographic like Trump were the unemployed denizens of the United States of America.

    If it had been an Obama V Trump contest, who do you think would have won?


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    #1079
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,176 ✭✭✭Amerika


    Harika wrote: »
    Did people vote on his legacy or was it a decision between Trump and Clinton? Would have a different candidate had different outcomes? Like would have Rubio defeated Sanders in the same way?

    Clinton ran on Obama's legacy. She essentially was touted to be an Obama third term. Rubio would have defeated Sanders more decisively than Trump did Hillary. America isn't ready for a socialist, regardless of what the idealistic and delusional MSM wants us to believe.


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    #1080
    Amerika
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,176 ✭✭✭Amerika


    eire4 wrote: »
    He won both elections he contested and judging on his popularity ratings and the lack of on the part of Trump he most likely would have won again if he had of been able to run for a third term in office.

    Sorry, I disagree.

    http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/12/no-obama-probably-wouldnt-have-beaten-trump-214557


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    #1081
    KingBrian2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,363 ✭✭✭KingBrian2


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    If it had been an Obama V Trump contest, who do you think would have won?

    Trump. he would not be demonized like he is today. The same media that are lambasting him today would have supported him back then. Obama was the radical in chief back then. Now it has become personal and the Clinton-Trump feud turned the election upside down with defections from the Obama & Sanders camp directly to the Trump side with support from Libertarians.

    We will really have to see how Trump does Washington is full of factions that hate him now and the old Republican party has moved far to the right. Obama was unable to convince enough Republicans to back some of his small initiatives like gun control and immigration. On large issues like America's role in the world the sides are even more divided since Obama got into office.


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