President 'The Donald' Trump and Surprising Consequences - Mod warning in OP

rgossip30

alastair wrote: »

Gawd help us. There were clearly fewer people there than in 2009. Get over it, and stop attempting to defend the indefensible.

Yes there were fewer but not like what the monument image shows in comparison to the CNN one .Reeks of smear .

http://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2017/01/politics/trump-inauguration-gigapixel/

alastair

rgossip30 wrote: »

Yes there were fewer but not like what the monument image shows in comparison to the CNN one .

The reality, you mean?

Amerika

alastair wrote: »

You've obviously not cut back on the tinfoil though.

Touché. Got to give you credit for a witty comeback. Made me laugh.

I really should respond with a Kool-Aid comment, but it would look like we’re just having a pissing contest.

oscarBravo

johnp001 wrote: »

When belief in anthropogenic climate change is so axiomatic that any questioning of the validity and applicability of the various data in what is, as you say, a vastly complex field becomes seen as heresy then how will the scientific community be able to refine the theory?

I guess we'll worry about that if it ever happens.

Accepting science as settled isn't dogmatic; it's pragmatic. Nobody listens to anyone who thinks the earth is flat: they're nutters. Nobody listens to anyone who thinks smoking doesn't cause cancer: they're vested interests. Unfortunately, we're not there yet with climate change, because the vested interests are still largely running the show.

edit: I watched a couple of minutes of that video. Describing it as "informative" is... generous.

CMOTDibbler

Amerika wrote: »

Joe Biden would probably use the term ‘malarkey.’ And he too would be wrong.

Reuters has a poll out which found one-third of Californians are ready to secede from the union now that Donald Trump is president. There is already a move to get Calexit on the ballot in 2019. And last year Public Policy Polling found that 40% of Texans would consider secession if Clinton won the election. The war is real.

The war is phoney.

The vast majority of people are practically indistinguishable from each other regardless of their party affilliations and views on certain issues. The news and soundbites always come from the extremes because that's what makes it news.

People are mostly concerned with their daily lives, family and jobs. An artificial division has been created by the two party system that makes both parties work hard to distinguish the largely indistinguishable. It's actually laughable to hear the democrats referred to as 'left wing' or the republicans as 'right wing'. They are both by and large centrists with leanings away or towards liberalism. Even that distinction is blurred at times.

It's become ridiculous to the extreme when it gets to the stage that if one says something, the other must gainsay it regardless of the truth. Both parties have built a massive wall of lies to paint the other as 'not us'.

Professor Moriarty

oscarBravo wrote: »

I guess we'll worry about that if it ever happens.

Accepting science as settled isn't dogmatic; it's pragmatic. Nobody listens to anyone who thinks the earth is flat: they're nutters. Nobody listens to anyone who thinks smoking doesn't cause cancer: they're vested interests. Unfortunately, we're not there yet with climate change, because the vested interests are still largely running the show.

Now that you mention it, Mike Pence stated that smoking doesn't cause cancer and has vehemently opposed anti-smoking legislation.

Coincidentally, he has received more than $100,000 from tobacco companies over the years.

oscarBravo

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Now that you mention it, Mike Pence stated that smoking doesn't cause cancer and has vehemently opposed anti-smoking legislation.

Coincidentally, he has received more than $100,000 from tobacco companies over the years.

Alternative facts for sale. Who'da thunk it?

Amerika

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

The war is phoney.

The vast majority of people are practically indistinguishable from each other regardless of their party affilliations and views on certain issues. The news and soundbites always come from the extremes because that's what makes it news.

People are mostly concerned with their daily lives, family and jobs. An artificial division has been created by the two party system that makes both parties work hard to distinguish the largely indistinguishable. It's actually laughable to hear the democrats referred to as 'left wing' or the republicans as 'right wing'. They are both by and large centrists with leanings away or towards liberalism. Even that distinction is blurred at times.

It's become ridiculous to the extreme when it gets to the stage that if one says something, the other must gainsay it regardless of the truth. Both parties have built a massive wall of lies to paint the other as 'not us'.

Democrats are being taken over by the Far Left (by American standards) who essentially sees everyone in America that doesn’t hold to their convictions as a racist, xenophobic, imperialist, warmongering, money worshiping, and moronically religious. They view America's historical core values in contempt. They suppresses free speech, and label all non-Left speech as "hate speech.” They view the free market as a form of oppression, and want the government to control as much of American life as possible. The divide between the Left and the Right here has become quite ugly.

Itssoeasy

I see trump is having the press into the Oval Office when signing his executive orders/actions. I don't remember former presidents having tv cameras doing that. I've seen pictures of them being signed.

Amerika

Since we’ve discussed abortion and climate change recently, here are a couple of videos you might enjoy. And whether you agree with it or not, it shows a new form of media that is beginning to resonate with the American public.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwviDPo4Rh4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhtphabTpIs

johnp001

oscarBravo wrote: »

I guess we'll worry about that if it ever happens.

Accepting science as settled isn't dogmatic; it's pragmatic. Nobody listens to anyone who thinks the earth is flat: they're nutters. Nobody listens to anyone who thinks smoking doesn't cause cancer: they're vested interests. Unfortunately, we're not there yet with climate change, because the vested interests are still largely running the show.

edit: I watched a couple of minutes of that video. Describing it as "informative" is... generous.

This recent Spectator article about Judith Curry I also found informative.

http://www.spectator.co.uk/2015/11/i-was-tossed-out-of-the-tribe-climate-scientist-judith-curry-interviewed/

...
Her record of peer-reviewed publication in the best climate-science journals is second to none, and in America she has become a public intellectual. But on this side of the Atlantic, apparently, she is too ‘challenging’. What is troubling about her pariah status is that her trenchant critique of the supposed consensus on global warming is not derived from warped ideology, let alone funding by fossil-fuel firms, but from solid data and analysis.
...

oscarBravo

Amerika wrote: »

Democrats are being taken over by the Far Left (by American standards) who essentially sees everyone in America that doesn’t hold to their convictions as a racist, xenophobic, imperialist, warmongering, money worshiping, and moronically religious.

More accurately, they see people who say racist things as racist; people who propose xenophobic policies as xenophobic, those who want to invade other countries for their natural resources as imperialist and warmongering; those who will happily cheat others as money-worshipping. As for moronically religious, well, moronic is as moronic does.

They view America's historical core values in contempt.

Only when those core values require treating people - such as minorities and women - with contempt.

They suppresses free speech...

Pretty ironic, considering the new administration's self-declared war on the media.

...and label all non-Left speech as "hate speech.”

Not non-Left speech: just hate speech. No need for the danger quotes. If, for argument's sake, someone was to describe your religion as a vicious cancer - would you consider that hate speech?

They view the free market as a form of oppression...

On the contrary, they view the free market as an unrealistic theoretical ideal, which in reality requires government regulation to keep its worst excesses in check.

...and want the government to control as much of American life as possible.

Nope. They just want the government to try to create and maintain a level playing field between powerful oligarchs and relatively powerless individuals.

The divide between the Left and the Right here has become quite ugly.

Wow. You said one thing that's true.

CMOTDibbler

Amerika wrote: »

Democrats are being taken over by the Far Left (by American standards) who essentially sees everyone in America that doesn’t hold to their convictions as a racist, xenophobic, imperialist, warmongering, money worshiping, and moronically religious. They view America's historical core values in contempt. They suppresses free speech, and label all non-Left speech as "hate speech.” They view the free market as a form of oppression, and want the government to control as much of American life as possible. The divide between the Left and the Right here has become quite ugly.

"They".

These are American citizens. Your neighbours. Your workmates. There's no 'they'. That's a construct of politics to maintain a difference that doesn't exsit.

If you read through your paragraph above, all you can see is fear. A fear of something that actually isn't that frightening really. Racism isn't something that should be protected is it? If you agree with that, you've common ground with these 'left wingers'.

oscarBravo

Amerika wrote: »

Since we’ve discussed abortion and climate change recently, here are a couple of videos you might enjoy. And whether you agree with it or not, it shows a new form of media that is beginning to resonate with the American public.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwviDPo4Rh4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhtphabTpIs

I'm not sure on what planet you thought I'd enjoy those videos, but I lasted less than two minutes into each one.

Yes, that "form of media" - smug people telling you what you want to hear - is beginning to resonate. That's not a good thing.

johnp001 wrote: »

This recent Spectator article about Judith Curry I also found informative.

"I found a scientist who agrees with me!"

Well, duh. It's sort of axiomatic that if 97% of climate scientists have arrived at a consensus, there are some who disagree. Has it occurred to you that she might be... wrong?

Amerika

oscarBravo wrote: »

I'm not sure on what planet you thought I'd enjoy those videos, but I lasted less than two minutes into each one.

Yes, that "form of media" - smug people telling you what you want to hear - is beginning to resonate. That's not a good thing.

"I found a scientist who agrees with me!"

I take it you're a climate scientist, then?

KingBrian2

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

"They".

These are American citizens. Your neighbours. Your workmates. There's no 'they'. That's a construct of politics to maintain a difference that doesn't exsit.

If you read through your paragraph above, all you can see is fear. A fear of something that actually isn't that frightening really. Racism isn't something that should be protected is it? If you agree with that, you've common ground with these 'left wingers'.

America is a large country and having the Washington apparatus create a phoney order in which all communities respect one another is not feasible. New Jersey or New York Democrats don't care about Texas or Pennsylvanian Democrats. They are worlds apart. The issues that matter to Texans are illegal immigrants they have to be mindful of drug traffickers entering the country. New York lives in a cocoon with massive security, heads of gvt flying in every day the business of making money and the vast bulk of the Nations finances is handled in New York.

oscarBravo

Amerika wrote: »

I take it you're a climate scientist, then?

Nope. But neither am I suggesting that people should ignore the consensus of climate scientists.

The earth is round. Smoking causes cancer. Climate change is man-made.

Amerika

oscarBravo wrote: »

Nope. But neither am I suggesting that people should ignore the consensus of climate scientists.

The earth is round. Smoking causes cancer. Climate change is man-made.

So you're essentially the same as the person in the video who you were unwilling to listen to. I get it now.

Professor Moriarty

Amerika wrote:

So you're essentially the same as the person in the video who you were unwilling to listen to. I get it now.

Nah. Climate change is real. Educate yourself rather than posting weird and obscure alternative facts. 98% of scientists involved in relevant research agree that climate change exists. Disagreeing with them doesn't make you a cool maverick, it makes you uneducated and obstinate.

SeamusFX

Amerika wrote: »

Since we’ve discussed abortion and climate change recently, here are a couple of videos you might enjoy. And whether you agree with it or not, it shows a new form of media that is beginning to resonate with the American public.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwviDPo4Rh4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhtphabTpIs

You should try getting your news from real and legitimate news sources, not some crazy person on YouTube or Facebook.

CMOTDibbler

KingBrian2 wrote: »

America is a large country and having the Washington apparatus create a phoney order in which all communities respect one another is not feasible. New Jersey or New York Democrats don't care about Texas or Pennsylvanian Democrats. They are worlds apart. The issues that matter to Texans are illegal immigrants they have to be mindful of drug traffickers entering the country. New York lives in a cocoon with massive security, heads of gvt flying in every day the business of making money and the vast bulk of the Nations finances is handled in New York.

Seriously?

I live in Europe and I have as much in common with a Frenchman as a Kerryman. Just in case you're wondering, it's a lot. I have no difficulty talking to said Frenchman and learning something and likewise he from me.

btw, the impact of drug and people trafficking is felt all over, not just in one place.

Jan_de_Bakker

alastair wrote: »

Gawd help us. There were clearly fewer people there than in 2009. Get over it, and stop attempting to defend the indefensible.

I know , im not trying to say there was same amount, but I dont think the gap was as much as CNN say ..

CMOTDibbler

Jan_de_Bakker wrote: »

I know , im not trying to say there was same amount, but I dont think the gap was as much as CNN say ..

The only person all this seems to matter to is Trump. It's a complete sideshow and heaven help us if this is eomething that should engage our attention for more than a nanosecond.

And that's my nanosecond up.

KingBrian2

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Seriously?

I live in Europe and I have as much in common with a Frenchman as a Kerryman. Just in case you're wondering, it's a lot. I have no difficulty talking to said Frenchman and learning something and likewise he from me.

btw, the impact of drug and people trafficking is felt all over, not just in one place.

Texans have nothing in common with New Yorkers other than their passport. This was seen starkly during the election campaign Ted Cruz made comments that insulted the entire city of New York and G.W. Bush consistently has high poll numbers especially in the Deep South. Obama and Bernie voters were concentrated in the cities of the mid west. Very little breaching the gap. Voters go with the traditional parties.

Amerika

I can’t help from laugh at the media’s obsession, and with people here and elsewhere, over things like the amount of people attending the inauguration, or how many people voted illegally, or the exact number of Carrier jobs Trump saved. The majority of American people don’t really care about the details. Trump’s inaugural speech was looked at favorably by the majority of voters, Trump won the election despite some voter fraud regardless of the numbers, and it doesn’t matter the exact number of jobs he saved at Carrier because the people see he’s fighting for American jobs.

Is he bombastic, does he bend the truth, is he crass, is he divisive… yes. But does that matter in the big picture when he will institute an increased level of economic growth, a reduction of most people’s income taxes as well as corporate taxes, realize a reduction in crime and violence, get a secure border, and experience a consistent and sustainable foreign policy?

The people will ignore the media as they try to distort the record of his administration as it's results that matter most. He is working hard and successfully (so far) to keep his campaign promises, and is installing a strong administration to reverse decades of national decline.

I've said it before here... that Trump might just end up being the best president this country has seen in modern times, and every day it looks to be happening.

Professor Moriarty

Amerika wrote: »

I can’t help from laugh at the media’s obsession, and with people here and elsewhere, over things like the amount of people attending the inauguration, or how many people voted illegally, or the exact number of Carrier jobs Trump saved. The majority of American people don’t really care about the details. Trump’s inaugural speech was looked at favorably by the majority of voters, Trump won the election despite some voter fraud regardless of the numbers, and it doesn’t matter the exact number of jobs he saved at Carrier because the people see he’s fighting for American jobs.

Is he bombastic, does he bend the truth, is he crass, is he divisive… yes. But does that matter in the big picture when he will institute an increased level of economic growth, a reduction of most people’s income taxes as well as corporate taxes, realize a reduction in crime and violence, get a secure border, and experience a consistent and sustainable foreign policy?

The people will ignore the media as they try to distort the record of his administration as it's results that matter most. He is working hard and successfully (so far) to keep his campaign promises, and is installing a strong administration to reverse decades of national decline.

I've said it before here... that Trump might just end up being the best president this country has seen in modern times, and every day it looks to be happening.

Foreign policy???? Seriously?. Apart from Russia, Israel and maybe the UK (well the Tories), please do tell me which countries he hasn't pissed off.

CMOTDibbler

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Texans have nothing in common with New Yorkers other than their passport. This was seen starkly during the election campaign Ted Cruz made comments that insulted the entire city of New York and G.W. Bush consistently has high poll numbers especially in the Deep South. Obama and Bernie voters were concentrated in the cities of the mid west. Very little breaching the gap. Voters go with the traditional parties.

At one point during the campaign, there was a slim chance that Texas would go blue. A very slim chance, but it's not as stark a demarcation as you seem to believe.

And your view of people is an extremely shallow one.

recedite

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Foreign policy???? Seriously?. Apart from Russia, Israel and maybe the UK (well the Tories), please do tell me which countries he hasn't pissed off.

Taiwan etc..
Maybe its quicker to say which ones he has annoyed. China. Islamic State. Any others?

CMOTDibbler

Amerika wrote: »

I can’t help from laugh at the media’s Trump's obsession, and with people here and elsewhere, over things like the amount of people attending the inauguration, or how many people voted illegally...

FYP

Professor Moriarty

recedite wrote: »

Taiwan etc..
Maybe its quicker to say which ones he has annoyed. China. Islamic State. Any others?

Sure. For a start, look up which countries are members of NAFTA, the EU and NATO.