President 'The Donald' Trump and Surprising Consequences - Mod warning in OP

robinph

There would be regulations regarding when announcements are made that could have an impact on a particular companies stock, or the market as a whole. New deals or cancellation of a deal or anything regarding a companies profit would have to be released outside of trading hours. Markets may be temporarily suspended. Trading in a particular company may be suspended.

Trump making suggestions of contracts being signed or not outside of the oversight of the relevant market is very dangerous for the stability of the stock markets.

Akrasia

recedite wrote: »

You're talking about insiders using information to make money on the stock markets. But that can happen anyway. In fact, by making his thoughts freely available on Twitter before any executive actions, Trump is actually giving the ordinary citizen some insight into what might happen. As opposed to just "the Washington elite" knowing.

Like your previous suggestion that somebody might hack his twitter account and pretend to launch a missile strike, your argument seems to be against "the new media" which often bypasses the traditional press and other insiders.
But none of your arguments can come up with a new problem created by Trumps use of new media, which did not exist before in some existing variant.

My argument isn't against 'the new media', It's against Trump's temperament and his communication style.

If someone had hacked Obama's twitter account and sent out inflamatory tweets it would have been obvious that the account had been hacked. If someone did the same with Trump's account, it would not be obvious.

Trump is actually conducting international diplomacy via twitter. Not in an intelligent, considered and thoughtful way, but in a childish petty and belligerent way. Would you be honestly surprised if Trump tweeted out a threat to bomb Iran if they don't stop enriching uranium?

(whether they're actually enriching uranium or not is not even relevant in Trump's world of alternative facts)

weisses

People from certain countries already being banned on US bound flights ...despite having all the proper visa ...... sad stuff

JPCN1

Not policing your borders as in Europe is sadder still imo.

weisses

JPCN1 wrote: »

Not policing your borders as in Europe is sadder still imo.

I wasn't aware they were not policing their borders prior to this decision ... Ohh wait

recedite

Akrasia wrote: »

Would you be honestly surprised if Trump tweeted out a threat to bomb Iran if they don't stop enriching uranium?

I would not. But how is that worse than, say, the way Israel bombed Iraq in "operation opera" without any warning?
Surely it is better to signal intentions in advance, just in case they might decide to give up the nukes?

If your complaint is not against new media, is it against "megaphone diplomacy" and any communications that are made public?
Trump promised to give power back to the ordinary guy; that's what he is doing. Communicating with the ordinary guy is part of that. Draining the swamp includes cutting back on Washington secrecy and elitism.

Speaking of bombing Iran.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBGPw_LBiRA

B_Wayne

JPCN1 wrote: »

Not policing your borders as in Europe is sadder still imo.

One of the people who may potentially be deported back to Iraq. Has worked for the US military and if sent back to Iraq. His life is at risk. That's a pretty sad state of affairs, a person who has helped the US is being put at risk.

Inquitus

Just an example of the sort of chaos this ill thought out ban is causing to innocent people.

Hamaseh Tayari, a UK resident who holds an Iranian passport, has been on holiday in Costa Rica with her boyfriend for the last week. She was due to fly back to Glasgow, where she works as a vet, this morning but was denied entry onto the flight because her flight went via New York and she would need a transit visa, which was revoked.

Tayari, who grew up in Italy, has never experienced anything like this. She says: “This has really shocked me. We just discovered [what Trump did] at the airport when we went to check-in. I want people to know that this is not just happening to refugees. I am a graduate and I have a Phd. It has happened to a person who is working and who pays tax.”

Tayari and her boyfriend are trying to find an alternative route home. A flight to Madrid on the 30 January will cost them £2000 and they’ll still have to find a way from there to Glasgow. She says: “We had been saving for months for this holiday and it will cost me a month’s salary just to get home.

“I am destroyed. I did not know that I could cry for so long. It feels like the beginning of the end. How this is possible? I am really afraid about what is going on.”

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2017/jan/28/world-digests-donald-trumps-order-to-ban-refugees-from-muslim-countries

CalamariFritti

This is where the fun ends. This is Nazi stuff. This guy hasn't a clue.

Akrasia

Trump supporters, can you please defend this buffoons half thought out executive order.

Either he's a complete idiot and didn't draft it to allow exceptions for people transiting through the airports or people with green cards or existing visa arrangements, or he's a heartless monster who doesn't care that he's ripping people's lives apart.
How many parents are separated from their children, or husbands separated from their wives because one of them was out of the country and now can't get back in?

MightyMandarin

Anyone hear about some shill called Mike Pence saying the Muslim ban was unconstitutional on twitter a few months ago?

Me neither...

recedite

Akrasia wrote: »

Either he's a complete idiot and didn't draft it to allow exceptions for people transiting through the airports or people with green cards or existing visa arrangements..

You don't need a transit visa if you remain airside while changing onto a different flight. For a short stay stopover, you do need a visa. Citizens of certain countries that oppose the USA and its values will find it difficult to get a visa.

If somebody who had joint UK and Iranian citizenship wanted a holiday visa for the USA, they could renounce their Iranian citizenship and become a British national. The USA itself asks new (immigrant) citizens to take an oath renouncing their allegiance to their birth country. If you want to be an American, you adopt American values and citizenship.

There will be a few people caught off guard by this for the first few days, naturally. After that it should run smoothly.

I see some interesting bits in the order;
Better screening and vetting of immigrants..

Implementing Uniform Screening Standards for All Immigration Programs. (a) The Secretary of State, the Secretary of Homeland Security, the Director of National Intelligence, and the Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation shall implement a program, as part of the adjudication process for immigration benefits, to identify individuals seeking to enter the United States on a fraudulent basis with the intent to cause harm, or who are at risk of causing harm subsequent to their admission. This program will include the development of a uniform screening standard and procedure, such as in-person interviews; a database of identity documents proffered by applicants to ensure that duplicate documents are not used by multiple applicants; amended application forms that include questions aimed at identifying fraudulent answers and malicious intent; a mechanism to ensure that the applicant is who the applicant claims to be; a process to evaluate the applicant’s likelihood of becoming a positively contributing member of society and the applicant’s ability to make contributions to the national interest; and a mechanism to assess whether or not the applicant has the intent to commit criminal or terrorist acts after entering the United States.

Greater transparency of refugee costs and crime statistics..

Sec. 10. Transparency and Data Collection. (a) To be more transparent with the American people, and to more effectively implement policies and practices that serve the national interest, the Secretary of Homeland Security, in consultation with the Attorney General, shall, consistent with applicable law and national security, collect and make publicly available within 180 days, and every 180 days thereafter:
(i) information regarding the number of foreign nationals in the United States who have been charged with terrorism-related offenses while in the United States; convicted of terrorism-related offenses while in the United States; or removed from the United States based on terrorism-related activity, affiliation, or material support to a terrorism-related organization, or any other national security reasons since the date of this order or the last reporting period, whichever is later;
(ii) information regarding the number of foreign nationals in the United States who have been radicalized after entry into the United States and engaged in terrorism-related acts, or who have provided material support to terrorism-related organizations in countries that pose a threat to the United States, since the date of this order or the last reporting period, whichever is later; and
(iii) information regarding the number and types of acts of gender-based violence against women, including honor killings, in the United States by foreign nationals, since the date of this order or the last reporting period, whichever is later; and
(iv) any other information relevant to public safety and security as determined by the Secretary of Homeland Security and the Attorney General, including information on the immigration status of foreign nationals charged with major offenses.


(b) The Secretary of State shall, within one year of the date of this order, provide a report on the estimated long-term costs of the USRAP at the Federal, State, and local levels.

as we know there has been a problem in the EU with this, in particular in Germany and Sweden when police refused to collect or divulge information on the levels of crime committed by recently arrived refugees against the host population.

Reati

Akrasia wrote: »

Trump supporters, can you please defend this buffoons half thought out executive order.

They will - just not in a way that will make any sense to anyone themselves.

Wanderer78

recedite wrote: »

Trump promised to give power back to the ordinary guy; that's what he is doing. Communicating with the ordinary guy is part of that. Draining the swamp includes cutting back on Washington secrecy and elitism.

you serious with this or taking the mick?

Akrasia

recedite wrote: »

You don't need a transit visa if you remain airside while changing onto a different flight. For a short stay stopover, you do need a visa. Citizens of certain countries that oppose the USA and its values will find it difficult to get a visa.

If somebody who had joint UK and Iranian citizenship wanted a holiday visa for the USA, they could renounce their Iranian citizenship and become a British national. The USA itself asks new (immigrant) citizens to take an oath renouncing their allegiance to their birth country. If you want to be an American, you adopt American values and citizenship.

There will be a few people caught off guard by this for the first few days, naturally. After that it should run smoothly.

You've completely ignored immigrants who aren't citizens but have permanent residence or other employment or student visas who have followed all the rules and are now prevented from travelling or having contact with their families abroad. For example, how many people will miss the funeral of a close friend or relative because if they leave they'll not be allowed back in?

B_Wayne

In terms of reporting crimes of refugees, Hitler literally did the exact same thing in relation to the Jews. So I guess we should be praising Hitler's transparency. Both for Hitler and Trump,it will foster hate against groups they wish the people to hate.

https://www.indy100.com/article/trump-weekly-list-immigrants-crimes-hitler-comparisons-7547211

recedite

Akrasia wrote: »

You've completely ignored immigrants who aren't citizens but have permanent residence or other employment or student visas who have followed all the rules and are now prevented from travelling or having contact with their families abroad. For example, how many people will miss the funeral of a close friend or relative because if they leave they'll not be allowed back in?

Tough titty. Plenty of Irish illegals in the US have had the same problem for years.
For every guy travelling back to Syria for a funeral, another could be travelling back there to go on a bomb-making workshop, or a few weeks of jihadi activities.

We are a bit lax here in Ireland about that sort of travelling back and forth to suspicious countries, but IMO Trump is right and we are wrong.

Wanderer78

recedite wrote: »

Tough titty. Plenty of Irish illegals in the US have had the same problem for years.
For every guy travelling back to Syria for a funeral, another could be travelling back there to go on a bomb-making workshop, or a few weeks of jihadi activities.

We are a bit lax here in Ireland about that sort of travelling back and forth to suspicious countries, but IMO Trump is right and we are wrong.

prepare for war!

recedite

B_Wayne wrote: »

In terms of reporting crimes of refugees, Hitler literally did the exact same thing in relation to the Jews.

You want to keep the rapes etc hidden then?
If Hitlers "crime" had been to prevent Jewish immigration to Germany, nobody would remember him. His crime was not letting them leave, and then killing them.

B_Wayne

recedite wrote: »

Tough titty. Plenty of Irish illegals in the US have had the same problem for years.
For every guy travelling back to Syria for a funeral, another could be travelling back there to go on a bomb-making workshop, or a few weeks of jihadi activities.

We are a bit lax here in Ireland about that sort of travelling back and forth to suspicious countries, but IMO Trump is right and we are wrong.

There's a difference, they are legally there. So you wish to give them a lesser status because they were born in the wrong place. Trump hasn't even provided proof to justify this. It's a policy that is entirely racist.

The fact you feel no sympathy for legal residence being blocked from where they live, perhaps you should reflect upon your attitude. Particularly given our pretty recent past in terms of terrorism.

recedite wrote: »

You want to keep the rapes etc hidden then?
If Hitlers "crime" had been to prevent Jewish immigration to Germany, nobody would remember him. His crime was not letting them leave, and then killing them.

The purpose in this instance is to vilify a group. Hitler didn't kill Jews from day one, you know. He vilified them. He made the public despise and attack them. So you think Hitler reporting on Jewish crime was innocuous?

recedite

Wanderer78 wrote: »

prepare for war!

We have been lucky so far, most seem to have gone on a one way trip.

KingBrian2

B_Wayne wrote: »

In terms of reporting crimes of refugees, Hitler literally did the exact same thing in relation to the Jews. So I guess we should be praising Hitler's transparency. Both for Hitler and Trump,it will foster hate against groups they wish the people to hate.

https://www.indy100.com/article/trump-weekly-list-immigrants-crimes-hitler-comparisons-7547211

Hitler's policies were quite different in terms of minorities. He sent SS and SA out to the streets and murdered innocent people much the way the terrorist organisations unleash mass terror on communities in Syria, Iraq & Libya.

recedite

B_Wayne wrote: »

There's a difference, they are legally there. So you wish to give them a lesser status because they were born in the wrong place. Trump hasn't even provided proof to justify this. It's a policy that is entirely racist.

Of course people have different status based on their nationality. Why do you think we have passports?

Trump's policy is not based on race. It singles out certain nationalities which have a recent and well documented history of being hostile to the US and its people.

Notwithstanding that, nationals of those countries can still be given a visa on a case-by-case basis. But are no longer presumed to be automatically entitled to one.

BuilderPlumber

Very poor decisions. Who in the name of hell can come up with such stupid ideas. If I were Trump, I'd be arresting all his advisors. Plays right into the hands of ISIS. These stupid ideas must have the support of the entire Republican party, else they would be torn up and Trump would be told to tell his advisors to word something better. Republican party = KKK. Sad. They have not changed since Dubya was around.

BuilderPlumber

All we need to see is that OTHER Donald back ... Rumsfeld. He'd be right at home in this new KKK regime. You can bet he is advising behind the scenes though if he is still alive (I take it he is).

B_Wayne

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Hitler's policies were quite different in terms of minorities. He sent SS and SA out to the streets and murdered innocent people much the way the terrorist organisations unleash mass terror on communities in Syria, Iraq & Libya.

He's painting every Muslim as a potential terrorist. Including plenty who worked in these countries for the US who aren't safe in their homeland. (One who is currently being detained) We're a week into his presidency and he's utterly terrifying the world for all the wrong reasons. Hitler was not killing people within a week.

I hope to Christ that Trump gets nowhere near that level of atrocity. However Trump is presently regressing the US global reputation. He is using his office to vilify based on geography and religion. This is not going to be of any benefit to anyone.

recedite wrote: »

Of course people have different status based on their nationality. Why do you think we have passports?

Trump's policy is not based on race. It singles out certain nationalities which have a recent and well documented history of being hostile to the US and its people.

Notwithstanding that, nationals of those countries can still be given a visa on a case-by-case basis. But are no longer presumed to be automatically entitled to one.

It's people who had existing residency in the US are also being affected. They are not criminals but are being treated like them. Also much of the time it's hostile governments rather than citizens. The average Iranian rather likes America, to use an example.

recedite

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

Plays right into the hands of ISIS.

I'd be very surprised if ISIS still exists by the end of the year.

Previously it was Presidents Erdogan and Obama on one side (supporting Islamic Sunni rebels) V Presidents Assad and Putin on the other side (supporting the secular state)
That stand-off played right into the hands of ISIS. Now its a whole new ball game.
That's coming up next....

KingBrian2

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

All we need to see is that OTHER Donald back ... Rumsfeld. He'd be right at home in this new KKK regime. You can bet he is advising behind the scenes though if he is still alive (I take it he is).

Trump is taking a very hard line on immigrants which was part of his electoral campaign to change it now would be massive u-turn. A big part of his electioneering was securing the border, going after the criminals and terrorists and integrating all people of different communities together. A tough ask but it was endorsed by the electorate. His recent moves is possible a gesture to those feeling very aggrieved by current immigration policy.

BuilderPlumber

B_Wayne wrote: »

He's painting every Muslim as a potential terrorist. Including plenty who worked in these countries for the US who aren't safe in their homeland. (One who is currently being detained) We're a week into his presidency and he's utterly terrifying the world for all the wrong reasons. Hitler was not killing people within a week.

I hope to Christ that Trump gets nowhere near that level of atrocity. However Trump is presently regressing the US global reputation. He is using his office to vilify based on geography and religion. This is not going to be of any benefit to anyone.



It's people who had existing residency in the US are also being affected. They are not criminals but are being treated like them. Also much of the time it's hostile governments rather than citizens. The average Iranian rather likes America, to use an example.

The fact that this drivel can actually get implemented as law just in a couple of days WITHOUT the president, VP, the government or anyone else with power stopping it in a country like America tells us a lot. Trump is either lazy or compromised, his advisors are KKK, and the Republican Party are either KKK or else do not care. If this is how America is run, then it has no right to criticise North Korea. Someone in America should have stopped this drivel but their failure to do so (either because they believe in racist policies or because they were drunk on a Saturday and signed something without even reading it: the reason does not matter if the policy is made into 'law') tarnishes America's image in the world. This sadly is not the first time this has happened and it won't be the last.

B_Wayne

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Trump is taking a very hard line on immigrants which was part of his electoral campaign to change it now would be massive u-turn. A big part of his electioneering was securing the border, going after the criminals and terrorists and integrating all people of different communities together. A tough ask but it was endorsed by the electorate. His recent moves is possible a gesture to those feeling very aggrieved by current immigration policy.

This is gonna "integrate" nobody, America is extraordinarily divided as a result of his behaviour. The average immigrant is neither a terrorist or a criminal. People's support of it is frankly horrifying.