President 'The Donald' Trump and Surprising Consequences - Mod warning in OP

KingBrian2

B_Wayne wrote: »

He's painting every Muslim as a potential terrorist. Including plenty who worked in these countries for the US who aren't safe in their homeland. (One who is currently being detained) We're a week into his presidency and he's utterly terrifying the world for all the wrong reasons. Hitler was not killing people within a week.

I hope to Christ that Trump gets nowhere near that level of atrocity. However Trump is presently regressing the US global reputation. He is using his office to vilify based on geography and religion. This is not going to be of any benefit to anyone.



It's people who had existing residency in the US are also being affected. They are not criminals but are being treated like them. Also much of the time it's hostile governments rather than citizens. The average Iranian rather likes America, to use an example.

I have to disagree with you on this. It is the actions of groups like ISIS that alienated many people towards adherents of Islam. I share the frustration felt by many that portraying all Muslims as terrorists is incredibly bigoted. That being said too many people claiming to speak in the name of Islam are getting away with murder.

B_Wayne

Brian, you're naive if you think that this isn't going to radicalise those who would not previously have been. You are a naive to think that this won't alienate and create hate crime. There is absolutely nothing good about these policies but you'll praise them cause he's bigoted old Trump. That's exactly what he is.

BuilderPlumber

B_Wayne wrote: »

Brian, you're naive if you think that this isn't going to radicalise those who would not previously have been. You are a naive to think that this won't alienate and create hate crime. There is absolutely nothing good about these policies but you'll praise them cause he's bigoted old Trump. That's exactly what he is.

The Republican Party are not fit for office. That is the problem. Trump. Bush 2. Doesn't matter. Steve Bannon v Donald Rumsfeld. Same thing. Frontmen for bad forces in the background. The Republicans have a toxic racist KKK undercurrent in them and it is sad that this awful racist immigration policy was implemented. Implemented on a SATURDAY too! I bet it was chosen that day because many are not at work that day and others will not read the documents and will quickly sign it to get back to their loved ones without knowing what they signed. Surely, if this was done Monday or Tuesday, SOMEONE would read it and tear it up. I bet Trump did not even spend a second reading this drivel on his Saturday either and he is lazy and a lazy buffoon suits the KKK.

Akrasia

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Trump is taking a very hard line on immigrants which was part of his electoral campaign to change it now would be massive u-turn. A big part of his electioneering was securing the border, going after the criminals and terrorists and integrating all people of different communities together. A tough ask but it was endorsed by the electorate. His recent moves is possible a gesture to those feeling very aggrieved by current immigration policy.

Trump campaigned against illegal immigrants. But the first thing he does is to turn millions of people legally resident into prisoners or exiles

Manic Moran

Akrasia wrote: »

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Trump is taking a very hard line on immigrants which was part of his electoral campaign to change it now would be massive u-turn. A big part of his electioneering was securing the border, going after the criminals and terrorists and integrating all people of different communities together. A tough ask but it was endorsed by the electorate. His recent moves is possible a gesture to those feeling very aggrieved by current immigration policy.

Trump campaigned against illegal immigrants. But the first thing he does is to turn millions of people legally resident in the US into 2nd class citizens.

Technically, that would be an improvement, as legally resident aliens are not citizens of any class at all.
I think it is highly unfair of him to arbitrarily turn away folks who are lawful residents without warning, and it's particularly heartless to do so when family within the US is involved. But ultimately, someone resident in the US on a visa is present at the sufferance of the US government, and the US government giveth, and the US government taketh away.

KingBrian2

B_Wayne wrote: »

Brian, you're naive if you think that this isn't going to radicalise those who would not previously have been. You are a naive to think that this won't alienate and create hate crime. There is absolutely nothing good about these policies but you'll praise them cause he's bigoted old Trump. That's exactly what he is.

In last year alone Europe and America experience several acts of terrorism committed by murderers claiming to be Muslims. Groups that sponsored Jihad, had sympathy for imposing sharia law and discriminated against Christians, Jews and Muslim apostates. In the 21st century terrorism has to be tackled and controlling the flow of migrants from unsafe regions of the globe actually reduces the chances of terrorists getting into civilian populations.

Jimmy Garlic

B_Wayne wrote: »

This is gonna "integrate" nobody, America is extraordinarily divided as a result of his behaviour. The average immigrant is neither a terrorist or a criminal. People's support of it is frankly horrifying.

Let's face it, the majority of Muslims don't integrate anywhere they set up shop. Islam fundamentally forbids any meaningful integration. Real integration means being free to marry outside your own clique and accepting the cultural norms of the country you decided to move to, not setting up enclaves that are little versions of the country you came from.

CMOTDibbler

Manic Moran wrote: »

Technically, that would be an improvement, as legally resident aliens are not citizens of any class at all.
I think it is highly unfair of him to arbitrarily turn away folks who are lawful residents without warning, and it's particularly heartless to do so when family within the US is involved. But ultimately, someone resident in the US on a visa is present at the sufferance of the US government, and the US government giveth, and the US government taketh away.

I appreciate that, but visas are legal documents and shouldn't be subject to whim. Whimsy and the law are poor bedfellows.

Donal55

I dont think Hilary's election would have been this exciting.
Everyday's a roller-coaster!

B_Wayne

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

Let's face it, the majority of Muslims don't integrate anywhere they set up shop. Islam fundamentally forbids any meaningful integration. Real integration means marrying outside your own clique and accepting the cultural norms of the country you decided to move to, not setting up enclaves that are little versions of the country you came from.

And your attitude absolutely horrifies me. The average Muslim does absolutely nothing wrong. There's around 2 billion. Tonnes of groups marry in the their own clique, that is one's choice. Secondly, it's a blanket statement. You just seem to expect everyone to be a clone of you or something. Anything atypical is wrong even if it's an individual choice.

Jimmy Garlic

B_Wayne wrote: »

Brian, you're naive if you think that this isn't going to radicalise those who would not previously have been. You are a naive to think that this won't alienate and create hate crime. There is absolutely nothing good about these policies but you'll praise them cause he's bigoted old Trump. That's exactly what he is.

Anyone who has the potential to be radicalised and turn into a terrorist is not someone you want living in your country. End of story. If Muslims want more economic opportunity let them move to Saudi Arabia, The Gulf states, Malaysia etc. Plenty of wealthy Muslim countries to choose from where they will feel more at home.

MightyMandarin

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

Let's face it, the majority of Muslims don't integrate anywhere they set up shop. Islam fundamentally forbids any meaningful integration. Real integration means being free to marry outside your own clique and accepting the cultural norms of the country you decided to move to, not setting up enclaves that are little versions of the country you came from.

Whenever large amounts of one ethnic or religious group immigrate to a certain place, very little amount of full integration occurs. Don't believe me? Look at all the Irish that emigrated to London or Boston or Sydney. How many ended up playing with the GAA clubs, drinking regularly at the local Irish pub, hanging around with the same lads from home, working construction with all the other Irish labourers?

This isn't a 'Muslim problem'; it's just what happens when swathes of immigrants move to one place in a short period of time, and imo there's nothing wrong with it as long as they contribute to society in a financial and moral way.

Akrasia

KingBrian2 wrote: »

In last year alone Europe and America experience several acts of terrorism committed by murderers claiming to be Muslims. Groups that sponsored Jihad, had sympathy for imposing sharia law and discriminated against Christians, Jews and Muslim apostates. In the 21st century terrorism has to be tackled and controlling the flow of migrants from unsafe regions of the globe actually reduces the chances of terrorists getting into civilian populations.

What happens the next time there is an islamicist attack in the US.
It's likely to happen. There are 3.3 million Muslims in America, Most are citizens. Trump is a giving a big middle finger to them, It only takes one nutcase with a gun and Trump is in reaction mode.

If Trump declares a state of emergency what will happen to Muslim American Citizens?

CMOTDibbler

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

Anyone who has the potential to be radicalised and turn into a terrorist is not someone you want living in your country. End of story. If Muslims want more economic opportunity let them move to Saudi Arabia, The Gulf states, Malaysia etc. Plenty of wealthy Muslim countries to choose from where they will feel more at home.

'Potential'. Good idea. That pretty much means anyone who has a gripe with the government. Like you for instance.

B_Wayne

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

Anyone who has the potential to be radicalised and turn into a terrorist is not someone you want living in your country. End of story. If Muslims want more economic opportunity let them move to Saudi Arabia, The Gulf states, Malaysia etc. Plenty of wealthy Muslim countries to choose from where they will feel more at home.

In the right circumstances, literally anyone can be radicalised. Are you in any way familiar with history? Also creating a situation that increases the likelihood of being radicalised is foolish and dangerous.

What you have described is an absolutely horrible policy btw. Do you propose all Muslim Americans leave? Because it's not just white Christians that are American citizens.

Akrasia

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

Let's face it, the majority of Muslims don't integrate anywhere they set up shop. Islam fundamentally forbids any meaningful integration. Real integration means being free to marry outside your own clique and accepting the cultural norms of the country you decided to move to, not setting up enclaves that are little versions of the country you came from.

Muslims in America are on average about as religious as Christians in America are. According to pew research There are Fundamentalists in Christianity and in Islam, and these people are dangerous, but most people not extremists and keep their private religious beliefs to themselves.

KingBrian2

Akrasia wrote: »

Muslims in America are on average about as religious as Christians in America are. According to pew research There are Fundamentalists in Christianity and in Islam, and these people are dangerous, but most people not extremists and keep their private religious beliefs to themselves.

America has Muslims going off to fight in Syria. Yes terrorists crossing the Atlantic to bring their tolerant views of the world to Egypt and Libya. Don't reckon the Egyptians and Libyans want these so called tolerant Muslims entering their countries as they are terrorists and are not really tolerant at all.

Jimmy Garlic

MightyMandarin wrote: »

Whenever large amounts of one ethnic or religious group immigrate to a certain place, very little amount of full integration occurs. Don't believe me? Look at all the Irish that emigrated to London or Boston or Sydney. How many ended up playing with the GAA clubs, drinking regularly at the local Irish pub, hanging around with the same lads from home, working construction with all the other Irish labourers?

Are they forbidden from marrying Australians, British or Americans? Plenty of Irish people have done just that. Irish people integrate extremely well in the UK, Australia and the US because the cultural differences are superficial. Being a member of a sports club isn't the same as being a member of a mosque that reinforces a belief system that is totally at odds with the culture of the country that it is in.

CMOTDibbler

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

Are they forbidden from marrying Australians, British or Americans? Plenty of Irish people have done just that. Irish people integrate extremely well in the UK, Australia and the US because the cultural differences are superficial. Being a member of a sports club isn't the same as being a member of a mosque that reinforces a belief system that is totally at odds with the culture of the country that it is in.

Totally at odds?

You do know that Mohammed Ali was a Muslim?

Akrasia

KingBrian2 wrote: »

America has Muslims going off to fight in Syria. Yes terrorists crossing the Atlantic to bring their tolerant views of the world to Egypt and Libya. Don't reckon the Egyptians and Libyans want these so called tolerant Muslims entering their countries as they are terrorists and are not really tolerant at all.

America is practically a continent.

Even if ISIS did a bombing a month in the US, America would only be at risk if the government over reacted to them.

It's already got a really strict immigration policy and the most sophisticated intelligence agencies in the world. America is not under any kind of real threat from Islam. On the other hand, Trump threatening to go to war with Mexico, Iran, China, Russia, Syria, North Korea....... Is a real possibility...

Bazzo

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Totally at odds?

You do know that Mohammed Ali was a Muslim?

Yeah, large swathes of the black community in America are Muslim and have been for decades. But you're wasting your breath I'm afraid.

KingBrian2

Akrasia wrote: »

America is practically a continent.

Even if ISIS did a bombing a month in the US, America would only be at risk if the government over reacted to them.

It's already got a really strict immigration policy and the most sophisticated intelligence agencies in the world. America is not under any kind of real threat from Islam. On the other hand, Trump threatening to go to war with Mexico, Iran, China, Russia, Syria, North Korea....... Is a real possibility...

The world is under threat from International Islamic Terrorism.

Wanderer78

KingBrian2 wrote: »

The world is under threat from International Islamic Terrorism.

the world is actually really under threat from american imperialistic thinking and power

Akrasia

KingBrian2 wrote: »

The world is under threat from International Islamic Terrorism.

No its not.

It is under threat from Global warming. Trump is gonna ignore the real threat in favour of stoking a culture of xenophobic hatred of immigrants

BuilderPlumber

Wanderer78 wrote: »

the world is actually really under threat from american imperialistic thinking and power

Unfortunately, International Islamic terrorism was used and encouraged by American imperialistic thinking and power. 3 words come to mind. Osama bin Laden.

Billy86

Akrasia wrote: »

Trump campaigned against illegal immigrants. But the first thing he does is to turn millions of people legally resident into prisoners or exiles

I wouldn't bother with that one, he spent weeks during the election threads claiming Trump wasn't going to be banning Muslims, was all for religious tolerance, and had nothing against Muslims nor Muslim countries. If Trump came out tomorrow and said the sky is green, he would be saying the exact same. He wouldn't necessarily believe it, but he would be swearing to us all that he did and has all along... I'll leave you to put 2+2 together as to why.

Nody

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

Anyone who has the potential to be radicalised and turn into a terrorist is not someone you want living in your country. End of story. If Muslims want more economic opportunity let them move to Saudi Arabia, The Gulf states, Malaysia etc. Plenty of wealthy Muslim countries to choose from where they will feel more at home.

Better kick out all those white Christian people for starters as you have:

Erik Rudolph - White American Christian Male doing a terror bombing campaign
Wade Michael Page - White Christian Male doing terrorist attacks against a Sikh temple
Or how about the Oklahoma City bombing? White males having the LARGEST domestic terrorist attack to date in modern time.
Unabomber of course - Once again white American Christian male

Then of course you need to kick out all those Jews and stop aid to Israel since that supports the Jewish Defence League who've done 15 terrorist attacks in the USA

So are you going to stand by your word and support all White Christian Americans get kicked out since clearly there are a ton of examples there them becoming radical and going boom...

Billy86

Nody wrote: »

Better kick out all those white Christian people for starters as you have:

Erik Rudolph - White American Christian Male doing a terror bombing campaign
Wade Michael Page - White Christian Male doing terrorist attacks against a Sikh temple
Or how about the Oklahoma City bombing? White males having the LARGEST domestic terrorist attack to date in modern time.
Unabomber of course - Once again white American Christian male

Then of course you need to kick out all those Jews and stop aid to Israel since that supports the Jewish Defence League who've done 15 terrorist attacks in the USA

So are you going to stand by your word and support all White Christian Americans get kicked out since clearly there are a ton of examples there them becoming radical and going boom...

I'm not sure if Jimmy Garlic realises it, but he just called for himself (and you, and me, and 90%+ of the rest of the posters in this thread) to be banned from the US.

KingBrian2

Billy86 wrote: »

I wouldn't bother with that one, he spent weeks during the election threads claiming Trump wasn't going to be banning Muslims, was all for religious tolerance, and had nothing against Muslims nor Muslim countries. If Trump came out tomorrow and said the sky is green, he would be saying the exact same. He wouldn't necessarily believe it, but he would be swearing to us all that he did and has all along... I'll leave you to put 2+2 together as to why.

Says the guy who is of the illusion Saudi Arabia is a lovely place to be a human being.

Akrasia

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Says the guy who is of the illusion Saudi Arabia is a lovely place to be a human being.

Trump must like them, They weren't on his list of countries... I wonder why?