President 'The Donald' Trump and Surprising Consequences - Mod warning in OP

Akrasia

frostyjacks wrote: »

I don't see what the issue is. Trump explicitly stated he would ban Muslims from entering the US, and people voted for that.

If you see a load of snakes heading towards your house, you don't let them in and then throw them out. You just keep them out in the first instance. It's called being proactive.

The issue is that democracy is a joke in America. Trump has been coming for a long time now. America has been circling the drain for decades, and now it's fallen in.

Religion, racism, anti intellectualism, bigotry, historical divisions, growing economic inequality, media consolidation, misinformation... It's a perfect storm

KingBrian2

Nody wrote: »

Except this minor point...

Link for full report.The terrorists are not coming in willy nilly from the Mexican border; they are already in USA and have the full citizens rights of everyone else in the USA in the first place. Ergo the focus should be focusing on how and why American citizens get radicalised and how to prevent it if you want to actually reduce the terrorist attacks.

The reasons for such radicalism are well researched and understood by now only the liberals are unwilling to pay attention. The spread of Wahhabism from the Gulf into Islamic schools in Europe, America and around the world.

Bazzo

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

This isn't helpful.

Do you believe the Republican Party are blameless or should be let off the hook here? Trump won the RNC primaries in a landslide. He is the representative overwhelmingly chosen by the party.

Akrasia

KingBrian2 wrote: »

I don't know how you would know that.

It was a rhetorical device

BorneTobyWilde

oscarBravo wrote: »

When exactly did the USA turn into a nation of snivelling cowards afraid of their own shadows?



That aside, this is an interesting insight into the legal sh*tshow that the Muslim ban executive order is. And before it's dismissed as the wailings of a bleeding heart libtard:

A lot of these fake stats going around. So many have been killed lately in US by ISIS inspired lone sharks.

MightyMandarin

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

A lot of these fake stats going around. So many have been killed lately in US by ISIS inspired lone sharks.

Calls it "Fake stats", yet provides no evidence to prove it is indeed fake, other than using "so many" as his number for " ISIS inspired lone sharks". How very....Donald of you.

It's lone wolf btw. You're thinking of loan sharks ffs.

KingBrian2

Trump gets a lot of flak for whats going on in America now. Wages have been declining for years for the working class. Big reason why former President Obama was elected and just like him he is receiving the same sort of abuse and aggressive protests that he received. Change is coming to America and people don't like. As for his unfortunate comments about torture Trump might genuinely believe it is acceptable. Americans don't protest against the drone strikes, Guantanamo Bay still open and sponsoring terrorism. Pres Trump needs to have an honest conversation with his fellow citizens. Security does not come free. All these issues are worth debating about but the silly attacks against the President have to stop, it only shows the protesters are not willing to compromise.

johnnyskeleton

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

A lot of these fake stats going around. So many have been killed lately in US by ISIS inspired lone sharks.

Mod note:

Please provide backup if you wish to criticise the statistics. You may ask the other poster for his source if you like, but please dont simply dismiss things out of hand. If you dont agree with something but cant or wont take the time to respond in a reasoned manner, then just dont post.

Mr.Micro

Bazzo wrote: »

This isn't helpful.

Do you believe the Republican Party are blameless or should be let off the hook here? Trump won the RNC primaries in a landslide. He is the representative overwhelmingly chosen by the party.

Trump is not a dyed in the wool Republican. It was pure convenience for him. Now he is in, he is going to do things his way by dictate.

alastair

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

A lot of these fake stats going around. So many have been killed lately in US by ISIS inspired lone sharks.

"Lone sharks" :rolleyes:

The ISIS-inspired/aligned attacks within the US have resulted in deaths in two very well known instances - the San Bernardino couple who killed their work colleages (14 dead), the Orlando club massacre, and which may or may not have actually had anything with ISIS, given the mental state of the perpetrator, which killed 49, and aside from that, there's a teneous suggestion that the Ohio State University attack, which killed no-one aside from the attacker, might have been ISIS-inspired. So this, over the ten years that the chart represents amounts to an average of 6.3 deaths per year in the US possibly motivated by an ISIS allegiance.

Calina

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Bazzo wrote: »

This isn't helpful.

Do you believe the Republican Party are blameless or should be let off the hook here? Trump won the RNC primaries in a landslide. He is the representative overwhelmingly chosen by the party.

Trump is not a dyed in the wool Republican. It was pure convenience for him. Now he is in, he is going to do things his way by dictate.

GOP runs both the Senate and the House of Representatives. They are uniquely placed to do something about this mess. Not just this exec order, but his taxes, the changes to the nat security council and other issues.

Afaik there was no statement from Paul Ryan yesterday. One would have to wonder why.

dwayneshintzy

cnocbui wrote: »

This current situation highlights a stupid policy enacted by the DFA whereby they record in Irish passports, the country of birth rather than the City.

Any Irish citizen who was born in Hong Kong, for instance, will have their place of birth in their Irish passport as China. Which is stupid.

If Trump gets into a spat with China, which is highly likely, he might place a ban on people with Chinese nationality entering the US. Could be fun for any Irish people born in Hong Kong trying to enter the US.

This has caused me some problems, actually. I'm a dual Irish/US citizen who was born in America, so my place of birth is listed as USA. Trying to open a bank account abroad, as an Irish citizen, is unbelievably frustrating. Because US citizens have much greater scrutiny put on them by financial institutions abroad, I also get that scrutiny. They see "USA" even though my passport is Irish, and either want a load of tax records (I haven't lived on the US since I was a child) or a sworn statement that I have renounced US citizenship (which I'm obviously not gonna ****ing do).

BuilderPlumber

Akrasia wrote: »

The issue is that democracy is a joke in America. Trump has been coming for a long time now. America has been circling the drain for decades, and now it's fallen in.

Religion, racism, anti intellectualism, bigotry, historical divisions, growing economic inequality, media consolidation, misinformation... It's a perfect storm

Have to agree. Democracy is a joke in America and everywhere. Trump is a mere puppet of more sinister guys behind him especially fascist nutjob Steve Bannon who once compared himself favourably to Satan. It is Bannon who is coming up with all this vile policy and Trump is too stupid to realise he is being used. Bannon is the sort of guy who could use Trump for a time, then have him killed, then pin it on some 'external/internal collaboration between the Democrats, moderate Republicans, Iran and Assad' and then set up an emergency regime indefinitely run by him.

Harika

There are so many issues with this executive order, starting from deliberately picking countries without any pattern, cynics would say only the ones without business links to Trump and his aides. Then affected are people with dual citizenship, like e.g. theoretical example: Mohammed, was born in Iran and on the day after his birth, his family moves to the UK, he studies at the best universities there, becomes an expert in science. Since Friday he is not allowed to travel to the US, as he is seen as coming from Iran. Then there are the radicalized jihadists that were fighting in Syria but are born in Europe and are free to move to the US.
I know Trump promised it, but he pushed it through without discussing it with the relevant bureaus what caused this absolute disaster of people blocked in airports, or longstanding vetted green card holders that are now not able to enter the US anymore.
His fans celebrate that the US is now more secure, while in reality this will just fuel ISIS and other terror organizations that are now spinning the PR to show that US is the evil and has to be fought.
Other fans are now celebrating that there are more jobs in the US for US workers, while rust belt workers were before highly unlikely to become IT specialists to move to California.

Harika

Seems like court orders are ignored: http://nypost.com/2017/01/29/lawyers-back-in-court-after-judges-immigration-order-ignored/ :rolleyes: *Land of the free*

cnocbui

fryup wrote: »

he's still going through his honeymoon period, give him some leeway

Rape is not normally considered desirable as the core theme of a honeymoon.

Zubeneschamali

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

I was all for Trump but now I see I was very wrong. So many have voter regret.

Trump said he was going to do this. He promised. He feckin yelled it at you and the crowd cheered.

No backsies - you voted for this.

Zubeneschamali

fryup wrote: »

he's still going through his honeymoon period, give him some leeway

He is still going through his honeymoon period, give it some time and real opposition will start.

Harika

The Donald now justifies his actions by "Obama did it too and I just use his list of countries"

Billy86

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Trump said he was going to do this. He promised. He feckin yelled it at you and the crowd cheered.

No backsies - you voted for this.

As much as on one hand I do agree with what you're saying, being standoffish with regretful Trump voter/supporters isn't going to achieve much other than to make others feeling the same less likely to come out and say as much also (on top of the derision they'll inevitably get from the increasingly cult-like Trumepeteer faction). Yes it's frustrating that many people are coming out now and saying they made a mistake when it was obvious and pointed out over and over, but rubbing it in doesn't achieve much of anything and is if anything ultimately counterproductive. It also leads to a more fragmented and divided society which is the kind of negativity and hatred that Trump and many of his supporters feed off of.

robinph

fryup wrote: »

he's still going through his honeymoon period, give him some leeway

No.

You don't get to have a practice run at being president. You do it properly from the start or you are just not up to the job.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

FreudianSlippers

JPCN1 wrote: »

Not policing your borders as in Europe is sadder still imo.

Sounds to me like you've never been to an external European border before.

FreudianSlippers

MightyMandarin wrote: »

Anyone hear about some shill called Mike Pence saying the Muslim ban was unconstitutional on twitter a few months ago?

Me neither...

Here you go:

https://twitter.com/GovPenceIN/status/674249808610066433?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

FreudianSlippers

weisses wrote: »

California is looking for independence (calexit)

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/calexit-movement-california-secede-gains-momentum-article-1.2957526

Will never happen, but Oregon have also drafted legislation to join California and talks are Washington are considering it too.

FreudianSlippers

Akrasia wrote: »

Religion, racism, anti intellectualism, bigotry, historical divisions, growing economic inequality, media consolidation, misinformation... It's a perfect storm

Sounds a lot like Ireland too tbh.

Wanderer78

BuilderPlumber wrote:

Have to agree. Democracy is a joke in America and everywhere. Trump is a mere puppet of more sinister guys behind him especially fascist nutjob Steve Bannon who once compared himself favourably to Satan. It is Bannon who is coming up with all this vile policy and Trump is too stupid to realise he is being used. Bannon is the sort of guy who could use Trump for a time, then have him killed, then pin it on some 'external/internal collaboration between the Democrats, moderate Republicans, Iran and Assad' and then set up an emergency regime indefinitely run by him.

True democracy actually doesn't exist anywhere but particularly in countries such as America, it's only an ideology. Noam Chomsky calls the American system a plutocracy, American economist Michael Hudson calls it a kleptocracy, both men are in fact correct. We are watching the slow demise of these systems and sadly the end does not look good for these particular systems, but there are others working on possible alternatives but it will be difficult to convince many of the potential benefits of these alternatives.

FreudianSlippers

Harika wrote: »

The Donald now justifies his actions by "Obama did it too and I just use his list of countries"

Which it also turns out isn't true. Poor The Donald.

Akrasia

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

There are 52 Republican senators who have plenty of chances to show their opposition to Trump in the Senate Confirmation hearings. There are plenty of very very bad nominees who they could very reasonably vote against.

Rex Tillerson is due for a vote today or tomorrow for full senate confirmation. He's a oil executive with a medal of honour from Vladimir Putin. It will send a huge signal to the world that the GOP are going to blindly follow Trump if there aren't at least 3 republican senators who vote against him.

Think about it. If Obama had nominated this guy, the Republicans would be losing their mind and calling him a puppet of the Kremlin.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.