Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

President 'The Donald' Trump and Surprising Consequences - Mod warning in OP

Options
1…8788909293…332

Comments

  • Options
    #2672
    Calina
    Registered Users Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Calina


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    The problem is I (personally) don't think Mike pence would be any better.

    In general terms, the question is probably not "Could he be better" but "Could he possibly be worse?"

    I'm not especially a big fan of Mike Pence and some of what he stands for I just think is wrong. However, Trump is demonstrably worse than expected not because he's doing what he said he would but he's doing it badly. The EO which has caused so much grief is a case in point.


  • Options
    #2673
    KingBrian2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,363 ✭✭✭KingBrian2


    Whatever the merits or demerits of the Muslim ban from certain parts of the Muslim world should a terrorist attack take place in America Trump will get a lot of criticism for putting American lives at risk with getting these restrictions messed up. According to the intelligence agencies and the Pentagon they prevent and see records of attempts to attack America from Jihadists constantly.


  • Options
    #2674
    B_Wayne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,039 ✭✭✭B_Wayne


    Jimmy Garlic wrote: »
    Wishful thinking from those who think democracy is only democracy if it suits them. Sedition is illegal in the US. I hope Trump dusts off the laws that deal with sedition, treason and subversive activities and uses them. Lots of subversive professors and the like that could be sent to cool off behind bars for a while.

    This sounds a bit like Stalin's purges or McCarthyism.....


  • Options
    #2675
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    B_Wayne wrote: »
    This sounds a bit like Stalin's purges or McCarthyism.....

    I was thinking more Pol Pot, myself - a strong man who created lots of work in rural areas!


  • Options
    #2676
    Memnoch
    Registered Users Posts: 4,276 ✭✭✭Memnoch


    Originally Posted by Jimmy Garlic:
    Wishful thinking from those who think democracy is only democracy if it suits them. Sedition is illegal in the US. I hope Trump dusts off the laws that deal with sedition, treason and subversive activities and uses them. Lots of subversive professors and the like that could be sent to cool off behind bars for a while.

    This post shows that sadly you have absolutely no idea what democracy is or what is needed to preserve the freedoms it promises.

    When we see this kind of rhetoric from Trump supporters, it is no wonder that terms like Fascism spring to mind when thinking about his administration.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #2677
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,392 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    listermint wrote: »
    Manic Moran wrote: »
    And done what, out of interest?

    It is up to the President to authorise or not an operation. Once it starts, he has to trust in the professionals. He's not going to get on the 'phone and start giving orders. Neither is the SecDef or CJCS.

    There is no requirement for him to monitor an operation. Indeed, those of us at the pointy end tend to appreciate not feeling like someone is looking over our shoulders. In Afghanistan, when I was on a battle staff, we'd routinely send a mission out, and then go to bed. If it's not our job to get involved, we're better off not even in the same room as the duty staff.

    I'm not even sure the mission was a balls-up. As we say, the enemy gets a vote. And we don't assume they are incompetent. If a sailor or soldier gets killed conducting the mission, it's the price of doing business. It'll happen from time to time. This whole idea of 'clean, casualty-free' warfare is a crock.

    Him I gather that any normal sane person sending people into battle for this first time in his life would want to monitor it quite closely.

    Buy hey I suppose that doesn't fit the profile of the self obsessed.

    Would you not agree?
    It was a small raid, not the second invasion of Panama. 

    "Go ahead, do it. Let me know if you find anything interesting."

    That's all that was necessary. If he trusts his subordinates, and he does seem to trust Mattis which is a good thing, why should he give it any additional thought? The first time I sent people into combat, I went with them which took the edge off, so I'm certainly not in a position to say 'what normal people would do'. What was your reaction?


  • Options
    #2678
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,948 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    It was a small raid, not the second invasion of Panama. 

    "Go ahead, do it. Let me know if you find anything interesting."

    That's all that was necessary. If he trusts his subordinates, and he does seem to trust Mattis which is a good thing, why should he give it any additional thought? The first time I sent people into combat, I went with them which took the edge off, so I'm certainly not in a position to say 'what normal people would do'. What was your reaction?

    You trained for that.

    This is trump's first presidency and first time sending men out to face death.

    You are cutting him an inordinate amount of slack because you voted for him and he is has granted the handing out of guns to people who don't have the mental capacity for them.

    Which ties into with your beliefs.


    Sorry if normal people tend to think that both of these things are a tad you know weird...


  • Options
    #2679
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,372 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    Trump chose Mattis to be Sec of Def, therefore if Mattis or his subordinates mess up then that's on Trump.


  • Options
    #2680
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,033 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Jimmy Garlic wrote: »
    Wishful thinking from those who think democracy is only democracy if it suits them. Sedition is illegal in the US. I hope Trump dusts off the laws that deal with sedition, treason and subversive activities and uses them. Lots of subversive professors and the like that could be sent to cool off behind bars for a while.

    Well, for one, the US Code defines sedition pretty definitively, and I don't see anyone really conspiring to overthrow the government, incite literal rebellion, burn the constitution, or assassinate any elected leaders.

    For another, if you want to jail college professors before wall street bankers or such ilk, you have a very inverted list of priorities.


  • Options
    #2681
    rgossip30
    Registered Users Posts: 2,464 ✭✭✭rgossip30


    The suspicion that Iran is a sponsor of terrorism is nothing new . The only danger is a reverse of the nuclear deal .
    This ban does allow a certain brokerage for a better deal at best .


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #2682
    KingBrian2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,363 ✭✭✭KingBrian2


    Overheal wrote: »
    Well, for one, the US Code defines sedition pretty definitively, and I don't see anyone really conspiring to overthrow the government, incite literal rebellion, burn the constitution, or assassinate any elected leaders.

    For another, if you want to jail college professors before wall street bankers or such ilk, you have a very inverted list of priorities.

    Every single US president that i can reference in history were either assassinated or nearly assassinated so don't tell us that sedition is not a feature of political life in the US. If you become the President of America you are taking that risk. Terrorism be it from the Confederates, Islamists or other leftist groups have posed a lethal threat to America's security in the past and present.


  • Options
    #2683
    Nody
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,311 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    rgossip30 wrote: »
    The suspicion that Iran is a sponsor of terrorism is nothing new . The only danger is a reverse of the nuclear deal .
    This ban does allow a certain brokerage for a better deal .
    I suspect they will end up with nuclear weapons long before Trump gets a better deal (because you need to trust your counterpart to stick to their part and Trump has just pissed all over that idea) as things are currently going since that's the only true safety against Trump. Israel will of course be overjoyed by that triggering another ME war to ensure more Jihadists are created and more instability will ensue in the region to let the likes of Al Quida and ISIS grow further.


  • Options
    #2684
    uck51js9zml2yt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,268 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    Nody wrote: »
    Well talking about America first I can only thank Trump for that policy because it has started a series that will help inform USA citizens about Europe and the countries that are here; they are specifically created for Trump himself by being short, easy to understand and using his own language.

    Of course the Dutch being the first to sell out was to be expected:


    .

    This was great. It really was...It was a super ending to my day:D:D

    So Super in fact, that I shared it on my FB page:eek:


  • Options
    #2685
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    Santiago Ripe Textile wrote: »
    This was great. It really was...It was a super ending to my day:D:D

    So Super in fact, that I shared it on my FB page:eek:

    Yeah, most of the others were fairly meh (though the Germans had their moments and certainly didn't pull any punches!) but the Dutch one was genuinely brilliant!

    Lots and lots of small hands jokes missed when referring to tiny countries, though.


  • Options
    #2686
    BabyCheeses
    Closed Accounts Posts: 778 ✭✭✭BabyCheeses


    B_Wayne wrote: »
    This sounds a bit like Stalin's purges or McCarthyism.....

    I was thinking cultural revolution to go along with the rest of the growing anti-intellectualism.


  • Options
    #2687
    Jimmy Garlic
    Registered Users Posts: 4,349 ✭✭✭Jimmy Garlic


    B_Wayne wrote: »
    This sounds a bit like Stalin's purges or McCarthyism.....

    No it isn't like Stalin's purges or McCarthyism, although I do believe McCarthy was right to a certain extent, a bit overzealous in his approach, and innocent people suffered as a consequence. Sedition is a crime in the US. You can't have people like professors, journalists, celebrities etc using their platforms to call for things like military coups, general violence, overthrows, and even in some cases assassination. A very clear message needs to be sent to individuals like that, they need to cool off in a cell somewhere. Did you see the most recent front cover of Village magazine here in Ireland...

    20170204_village.jpg


  • Options
    #2688
    BabyCheeses
    Closed Accounts Posts: 778 ✭✭✭BabyCheeses


    Jimmy Garlic wrote: »
    No it isn't like Stalin's purges or McCarthyism, although I do believe McCarthy was right to a certain extent, a bit overzealous in his approach, and innocent people suffered as a consequence. Sedition is a crime in the US. You can't have people like professors, journalists, celebrities etc using their platforms to call for things like military coups, general violence, overthrows, and even in some cases assassination. A very clear message needs to be sent to individuals like that, they need to cool off in a cell somewhere. Did you see the most recent front cover of Village magazine here in Ireland...

    20170204_village.jpg

    You are completely right, can't have any of that free speech

    https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/266034630820507648?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

    Bake him away toys


  • Options
    #2689
    Jimmy Garlic
    Registered Users Posts: 4,349 ✭✭✭Jimmy Garlic


    BabyCheeses wrote: »
    You are completely right, can't have any of that free speech

    https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/266034630820507648?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

    Bake him away toys

    Ah yes, free speech, but only when it suits the likes of yourself. Just like democracy. The free speech defense doesn't cover things threats, incitement, and sedition. People are free to say whatever they like but often there are consequences for the things they say.


  • Options
    #2690
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,392 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    listermint wrote: »
    Manic Moran wrote: »
    It was a small raid, not the second invasion of Panama. 

    "Go ahead, do it. Let me know if you find anything interesting."

    That's all that was necessary. If he trusts his subordinates, and he does seem to trust Mattis which is a good thing, why should he give it any additional thought? The first time I sent people into combat, I went with them which took the edge off, so I'm certainly not in a position to say 'what normal people would do'. What was your reaction?

    You trained for that.

    This is trump's first presidency and first time sending men out to face death.

    You are cutting him an inordinate amount of slack because you voted for him and he is has granted the handing out of guns to people who don't have the mental capacity for them.

    Which ties into with your beliefs.


    Sorry if normal people tend to think that both of these things are a tad you know weird...
    Um. I didn't vote for him. I have plenty enough issues with Trump that I didn't think he was deserving of my vote. I voted Sanders in the primary, and Johnson in the Presidential.
    However, that's not to say I'm going to leave questionable argument alone. If one has a problem with Trump, and I think most of us do, there are plenty enough valid and justifiable issues without having to add false ones.


  • Options
    #2691
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,033 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Jimmy Garlic wrote: »
    Sedition is a crime in the US. You can't have people like professors, journalists, celebrities etc using their platforms to call for things like military coups, general violence [against the govt], overthrows, and even in some cases assassination.

    Correct. Fortunately none of that is going on.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #2692
    BabyCheeses
    Closed Accounts Posts: 778 ✭✭✭BabyCheeses


    Jimmy Garlic wrote: »
    Ah yes, free speech, but only when it suits the likes of yourself. Just like democracy. The free speech defense doesn't cover things threats, incitement, and sedition. People are free to say whatever they like but often there are consequences for the things they say.

    Ah yes, democracy means you have to support someone and no dissenters allowed.

    No comments on Trump not respecting democracy, incitement, and sedition? Or is it ok when he did it? You were against celebrities using their platform before. What does the script say on this? Something about obama maybe.


  • Options
    #2693
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,372 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    Jimmy Garlic wrote:
    Ah yes, free speech, but only when it suits the likes of yourself. Just like democracy. The free speech defense doesn't cover things threats, incitement, and sedition. People are free to say whatever they like but often there are consequences for the things they say.


    So constantly lying about where POTUS was born, suggesting Second Amendment people might do something about Hillary, claiming at rallies that elections were rigged and would be stolen, personally threatening physical violence towards protestors, approving of violence at rallies, claiming that US citizens hate the US because of their religion.

    What should the consequences be for a person who espouses this sedition, incitement and these threats?


  • Options
    #2694
    rgossip30
    Registered Users Posts: 2,464 ✭✭✭rgossip30


    The travel ban being lifted will likely have no effect on the issue of visa's to nationals of those countries effected .
    I expect they will be harder to obtain if extreme vetting continues.Those with dual citizenship might find it could be a problem in the future .Remains to be seen how the Trump organisation will get around this .

    '' In a series of tweets early on Saturday, the president wrote: “The opinion of this so-called judge, which essentially takes law enforcement away from our country, is ridiculous and will be overturned!”


    Obama would have done by stealth and got away with it .


  • Options
    #2695
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Jimmy Garlic wrote: »
    Ah yes, free speech, but only when it suits the likes of yourself. Just like democracy. The free speech defense doesn't cover things threats, incitement, and sedition. People are free to say whatever they like but often there are consequences for the things they say.

    trumprevolution2-20121106.jpg


  • Options
    #2696
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,309 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    rgossip30 wrote: »
    The travel ban being lifted will have no effect on the issue of visa's to nationals of those countries effected .
    I expect they will be harder to obtain .Those with dual citizenship might find it could be a problem in the future .

    Really?
    On Saturday morning the state department said it had reversed visa revocations, meaning that tens of thousands of people whose visas were not physically canceled after the issuing of the executive order last week may now travel freely. On Friday a justice department official said 100,000 visas had been revoked under the ban. State department figures put the number at 60,000.

    Homeland security acting press secretary Gillian Christensen said on Saturday: “In accordance with the judge’s ruling, DHS has suspended any and all actions implementing the affected sections of the executive order. DHS personnel will resume inspection of travelers in accordance with standard policy and procedure.”

    Refugee flights were likely to resume on Monday, a spokesman for the United Nations’ International Organisation for Migration (IOM) told the Guardian.
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/feb/04/so-called-judge-donald-trump-attacks-decision-to-halt-travel-ban


  • Options
    #2697
    B_Wayne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,039 ✭✭✭B_Wayne


    Jimmy Garlic wrote: »
    No it isn't like Stalin's purges or McCarthyism, although I do believe McCarthy was right to a certain extent, a bit overzealous in his approach, and innocent people suffered as a consequence. Sedition is a crime in the US. You can't have people like professors, journalists, celebrities etc using their platforms to call for things like military coups, general violence, overthrows, and even in some cases assassination. A very clear message needs to be sent to individuals like that, they need to cool off in a cell somewhere. Did you see the most recent front cover of Village magazine here in Ireland...

    20170204_village.jpg

    Well the US have absolutely no right to jail the makers of village magazine. Outside of that, think you'd struggle to develop a strong case to jail anyone who views the present US government to be an insult against all governments that came before. Do you want to jail the protesters too? The vast majority would have preference for impeachment over a violent overthrow etc.


  • Options
    #2698
    rgossip30
    Registered Users Posts: 2,464 ✭✭✭rgossip30


    Jimmy Garlic wrote: »
    Ah yes, free speech, but only when it suits the likes of yourself. Just like democracy. The free speech defense doesn't cover things threats, incitement, and sedition. People are free to say whatever they like but often there are consequences for the things they say.

    Hate speech and incitement is another matter .


  • Options
    #2699
    B_Wayne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,039 ✭✭✭B_Wayne


    rgossip30 wrote: »
    Hate speech and incitement is another matter .

    He was very specific about "subversive professors" .... Has he specified any yet? Seems more like a tone of anti intellectualism.


  • Options
    #2700
    BabyCheeses
    Closed Accounts Posts: 778 ✭✭✭BabyCheeses


    B_Wayne wrote: »
    He was very specific about "subversive professors" .... Has he specified any yet? Seems more like a tone of anti intellectualism.

    All future research must agree with white house findings, any researcher that fails to comply will be imprisoned until they find the mistake in their research.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #2701
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,555 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    BabyCheeses wrote: »
    All future research must agree with white house findings, any researcher that fails to comply will be imprisoned until they find the mistake in their research.

    https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiWgvXKmfnRAhVBWhoKHf8PCr4QjRwIBw&url=https%3A%2F%2Fsimpsonswiki.com%2Fwiki%2FRe-Neducation_Center&psig=AFQjCNF-ksHzDetwWe4lkx6rRtCSiLmFiQ&ust=1486392464751709


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement