President 'The Donald' Trump and Surprising Consequences - Mod warning in OP

InTheTrees

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Look at today's news about prison cells in Damascus mistreating inmates as if Amnesty International could not focus on the horrible conditions of prisoners in Mexican & Brazilian cells.

I don't think Amnesty International only tackles one issue at a time. They can focus on all three.

MightyMandarin

Christy42 wrote: »

I am sorry? Are you giving out about Amnesty pointing out human rights abuses? What the F! A: they do point out issues in the rest of the world and B: are you just annoyed they pointed out the abuses by a side you would rather be the good guys?

This is beyond ridiculous at this stage. Amnesty point out human rights abuses where they find them where as you argue they should ignore some of them for reasons?

It's the classic argument from Trumpists all over the internet:

- X reports on Example A which doesn't favour Trump's views/policies.

- Trumpists claim 'Instead of reporting on Example A, why doesn't the MSM (or anyone who reports something unfavourable to us), report on Example B?'

- MSM (or anyone who reports something unfavourable to Trumpists) shows clear examples that they did in fact report on Example B aswell.

- Trumpists go silent, change subject or just bring up more spurious claims about 'libruls'

KingBrian2

Christy42 wrote: »

I am sorry? Are you giving out about Amnesty pointing out human rights abuses? What the F! A: they do point out issues in the rest of the world and B: are you just annoyed they pointed out the abuses by a side you would rather be the good guys?

This is beyond ridiculous at this stage. Amnesty point out human rights abuses where they find them where as you argue they should ignore some of them for reasons?

That is not entirely true. They pick and chose which ones and allocate resources and time to document those crimes.

alastair

KingBrian2 wrote: »

That is not entirely true. They pick and chose which ones and allocate resources and time to document those crimes.

As they have done with Brazilian and Mexican prisons, along with a raft of other human rights issues worldwide - including Syria.

Zubeneschamali

robinph wrote: »

That those stories were not covered is a Trump BOGOF deal, except it's yuger as you get 78 lies for the price of one this time.

We all know that they compiled their list of attacks by doing a google search, which pulled up a bunch of attacks that the media did cover, and then claiming the media did not cover them.

Pants on fire stuff, like the Bowling Green massacre.

Christy42

KingBrian2 wrote: »

That is not entirely true. They pick and chose which ones and allocate resources and time to document those crimes.

This is in no way a defense of your initial post on the matter.

Yes they have limited resources but they cast a pretty broad net. Including the examples you mentioned that they should look into. Turns out they were way ahead of your suggestions and had time for the Damascus prisons as well. All in all a great job from Amnesty international I think you will agree.

alastair

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Pants on fire stuff, like the Bowling Green massacre.

In fairness, that got very little coverage in Europe.

InTheTrees

MightyMandarin wrote: »

recedite wrote: »

Crude name-calling is crass and unnecessary, but then Trump is a crass individual.
Whether it "undermines" or "interferes" with the judge is another matter. The judge put a stay on Trump's EO did he not, which still stands? And the guy is still a judge?
Trumps undermining/interference, if that's what it is alleged to be, has had no real effect then.

I said it before and I'll say it again, it's not just name-calling, it's questioning his legitimacy. Calling a judge a 'so-called judge' implies that he is illegitimate and has no right to hand out judgments.

If for example, the judge said that the president is 'a so-called president', how do you think constitutional scholars, let alone the President and his team, would react?

There'd be impeachment proceedings within hours.

The republicans have used the term "activist judges" for years to denigrate judges that decide against them.

Hank Scorpio

Although I agree with name calling is wrong towards the judge and he has a right to practice, he should probably get his facts right if he wishes to avoid additional scrutiny.

http://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/nation-politics/ap-fact-check-no-arrests-from-7-nations-in-travel-ban-nope/

WASHINGTON (AP) — The federal judge who halted President Donald Trump’s travel ban was wrong in stating that no one from the seven countries targeted in Trump’s order has been arrested for extremism in the United States since the 2001 terrorist attacks.

Just last October, an Iraqi refugee living in Texas pleaded guilty to attempting to provide support to the Islamic State group, accused of taking tactical training and wanting to blow himself up in an act of martyrdom. In November, a Somali refugee injured 11 in a car-and-knife attack at Ohio State University, and he surely would have been arrested had he not been killed by an officer.

"He asked a Justice Department lawyer how many arrests of foreign nationals from the countries have occurred since 9/11. When the lawyer said she didn’t know, Robart answered his own question: “Let me tell, you, the answer to that is none, as best I can tell. You’re here arguing on behalf of someone that says we have to protect the United States from these individuals coming from these countries and there’s no support for that.”

From other reports, according to this database, at least 73 people have been arrested and convicted from the countries in the EO.

http://www.sessions.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/2016/6/at-least-580-individuals-convicted-in-terror-cases-since-9-11-at-least-380-are-foreign-born

KingBrian2

Christy42 wrote: »

This is in no way a defense of your initial post on the matter.

Yes they have limited resources but they cast a pretty broad net. Including the examples you mentioned that they should look into. Turns out they were way ahead of your suggestions and had time for the Damascus prisons as well. All in all a great job from Amnesty international I think you will agree.

They did look into the Latin American prisons which i was not aware of. I still stand by my point that the west in the form Amnesty International are political actors.

listermint

KingBrian2 wrote: »

They did look into the Latin American prisons which i was not aware of. I still stand by my point that the west in the form Amnesty International are political actors.

Em, are you not in the West.

Who is this west?

alastair

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

Just last October, an Iraqi refugee living in Texas pleaded guilty to attempting to provide support to the Islamic State group, accused of taking tactical training and wanting to blow himself up in an act of martyrdom. In November, a Somali refugee injured 11 in a car-and-knife attack at Ohio State University, and he surely would have been arrested had he not been killed by an officer.

Given that the rationale for the ban is protecting US citizens from a threat to them, that's pretty slim pickings. The Somali guy wasn't arrested, as pointed out, and the Iraqi guy in Texas was found guilty of training for ISIS alright, but his plan was to go to Iraq to fight with them, and, despite prosecution claims he had talked about blowing up a local malls, the FBI stated that he had no “active or planned plot targeting a specific location in Houston or elsewhere.”

KingBrian2

listermint wrote: »

Em, are you not in the West.

Who is this west?

The UN in New York, World Bank and IMF which goes around the world lecturing every country what to do. The UN is as woefully unrepresentative as they come. They were planning to come up with a better representation system a while back and it never materialized. Nations in the developing world languished behind as the western countries gave out the orders and provided the militaries to do the peacekeeping in the world. I say let the countries police their own territory and provide aid to the regions they belong too instead of calling in the Americans, Brits, French, Dutch, Spanish, Swedish and Norwegians to do the operations. We all know what that means. More spending for NATO and we must have a reason to keep NATO around.

Hank Scorpio

alastair wrote: »

Given that the rationale for the ban is protecting US citizens from a threat to them, that's pretty slim pickings. The Somali guy wasn't arrested, as pointed out, and the Iraqi guy in Texas was found guilty of training for ISIS alright, but his plan was to go to Iraq to fight with them, and, despite prosecution claims he had talked about blowing up a local malls, the FBI stated that he had no “active or planned plot targeting a specific location in Houston or elsewhere.”

Is your rationale in pointing out two recent examples in the article as a means that those two incidents are isolated, because that's silly. The Judge was wrong, simples.

alastair

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

Is your rationale in pointing out two recent examples in the article as a means that those two incidents are isolated, because that's silly. The Judge was wrong, simples.

Those incidents were isolated. Simples.

Christy42

KingBrian2 wrote: »

They did look into the Latin American prisons which i was not aware of. I still stand by my point that the west in the form Amnesty International are political actors.

This is a ridiculous attempt to ignore news that you don't like.

Amnesty did not publicise this to hurt Trump. The went with it because it is an abuse of human rights.

Akrasia

What i want to know is when did Americans turn into such cowards?

The risk of being attack by a terrorist in the USA is ridiculously small, but Americans are prepared to hand their country over to a bunch of lunatics just because they promise to make them safer.

American have more to fear from their own drinking water than from terrorism.

Half of America are demanding that ISIS are bombed back into the stone age while simultaneously saying that America should have no responsibility for refugees fleeing the war zone in case one or two of them might be isis in disguise.

Americans don't care about the tens of thousands of people who are killed as a direct result of US military actions abtoad, but are prepared to start world war 3 if a few innocent American citizens are killed by radical muslims.

Imagine the public outrage if a little blonde 8 year old white American girl had been killed in an attack against a US soldiers home.

Trump supporters shrugged off or even celebrated the attack that killed a little girl. ISIS use these innocent victims to recruit their army.

The price of freedom is that sometimes bad things happen. The safest people in the world are locked up in padded cells

Itssoeasy

http://www.politico.com/livestream1

Senate vote on the nomination of Betsy Devos for education secretary is being shown live. It's so close that Mike Pence the VP is there as he is the president of the senate and would break a tie if it comes to it.

alastair

Itssoeasy wrote: »

http://www.politico.com/livestream1

Senate vote on the nomination of Betsy Devos for education secretary is being shown live. It's so close that Mike Pence the VP is there as he is the president of the senate and would break a tie if it comes to it.

And lo...

Itssoeasy

it appears it happened with mike pence breaking the tie. She sounds like a bad deal for us education.

Itssoeasy

Also the trump appeal to the 9th circuit court is being streamed live(which is good) at 2pm PST which is 10pm our time.

Zubeneschamali

Itssoeasy wrote: »

it appears it happened with mike pence breaking the tie.

Good - make them own this.

jobbridge4life

Itssoeasy wrote: »

it appears it happened with mike pence breaking the tie. She sounds like a bad deal for us education.

That is in an understatement.

Akrasia

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Good - make them own this.

Yep. It's getting harder for the republican party to say that Trump was an extremist wing of the party when the majority of the party establishment are endorsing his record breaking disrespect for the offices he is making appointments to

Hank Scorpio

alastair wrote: »

Those incidents were isolated. Simples.

The Judge was wrong. A quick google brings up many other examples, or are these isolated incidents too?

I get the feeling I could argue the sky is blue and you'd dispute it, so I'm not sure what the point is.



https://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/09/us/minnesotas-somali-americans-urge-new-treatment-for-would-be-terrorists.html?_r=1

Akrasia

jobbridge4life wrote: »

That is in an understatement.

There will certainly be a supreme court challenge to the incoming voucher system. It's very important that the Dems don't roll over on the supreme court nominee

jobbridge4life

Akrasia wrote: »

There will certainly be a supreme court challenge to the incoming voucher system. It's very important that the Dems don't roll over on the supreme court nominee

Then they will just 'go nuclear'. The situation is increasingly dire.

Itssoeasy

jobbridge4life wrote: »

That is in an understatement.

Well from what I've read about how badly her confirmation hearing went and just other things don't fill me with hope.

Overheal

jobbridge4life wrote: »

Then they will just 'go nuclear'. The situation is increasingly dire.

Nuclear isn't something the GOP wants to do necessarily. Once the rule is gone, the rule is gone; the next time theres a Dem majority in the senate, the GOP would have absolutely zero recourse to prevent the majority party confirming judges from thereafter.

jobbridge4life

Overheal wrote: »

Nuclear isn't something the GOP wants to do necessarily. Once the rule is gone, the rule is gone; the next time theres a Dem majority in the senate, the GOP would have absolutely zero recourse to prevent the majority party confirming judges from thereafter.

They are going to redistrict. I honestly don't have much hope of there ever being a Democratic majority again.