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Pizzagate

123578

Comments

  • #122
    King Mob
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,248 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    enno99 wrote: »
    look im arguing that the pictures exist it cant be clearer
    I can address all your points but it will go on and on
    I gave you way to to change my opinion show me the work that would cause the reaction
    You said you searched all the artists work to find the naked teen pictures and yet you cant produce one Why?
    Because you assuming that:s what they are referring to!

    The artist could have other shocking work. I didn:t search through all of her work nor did I claim so.
    They could be referring to something else entirely. The article isnt clear at all.

    We:ll take it one at a time:
    The claim is that the artist is famous for pictures of naked teenagers.
    But nowhere does anyone refer to her as this and nowhere are these pictures to be found.
    You say you can address all my points, so address this one.


  • #123
    enno99
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,988 ✭✭✭enno99


    King Mob wrote: »
    Because you assuming that:s what they are referring to!

    The artist could have other shocking work. I didn:t search through all of her work nor did I claim so.
    They could be referring to something else entirely

    We:ll take it one at a time:
    The claim is that the artist is famous for pictures of naked teenagers.
    But nowhere does anyone refer to her as this and nowhere are these pictures to be found.
    You say you can address all my points, so address this one.

    Get back to me when you find it,
    it cant be that hard can it
    oh by the way i have tried several times I cant find anything that would cut it
    Maybe you will do better

    Goodnight


  • #124
    King Mob
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,248 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    enno99 wrote: »
    Get back to me when you find it,
    it cant be that hard can it
    oh by the way i have tried several times I cant find anything that would cut it
    Maybe you will do better

    Goodnight
    Super, then you should have found the work she:s most famous for then, right?
    Please post a reference to that. Can:t be hard, right?


  • #125
    Leroy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,721 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    So this story broke, what 3 weeks ago at least, and despite such a huge amount of evidence nobody has actually been able to prove anything.

    These people have now had at least 3 weeks of sneer and innuendo with nothing to back it up but a selection of random items all thrown together and deemed to be one great conspiracy.

    From the e-mails, which were written in code that was so easily broken, so FB posts that aren't written in code at all, but seem a bit creepy.

    Then of course we have art. Not hidden away, as would normally be the case if you are trying to something (like using code) but out there for people to see and even left in place when journalists visit.

    Of course the fact the journalist didn't draw the same conclusion means the journalist is in on it as well.

    I have no problem with people seeing signs and looking to get them investigated, if only people had done that in Saville, RCC, football in UK etc. But there is a big difference between having doubts and theories and posting them all over the internet without any evidence.

    In many of the pieces f evidence posted on this thread more than one view can be taken. I am open to any view, but people seem to believe that their opinion is fact and should be posted as such.


  • #126
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,160 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Made up conspiracy already has two casualties

    One of the Trump transition team has already been fired for mentioning it in a tweet
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38231532

    after there's already been some whackjob arrested after firing shots at the restaurant


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  • #127
    ScumLord
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    enno99 wrote: »
    Try page 3 paragraph 4
    Your right, I don't know what happened there, I searched the document a few times.
    enno99 wrote: »
    No the question you should ask is why mention naked teenagers in the piece at all
    It's a good question. It's an odd way to describe someones art, especially considering when you look up this artist the pictures clearly aren't matching up with this description. But that's journalists for you, they'd rather say something interesting and be wrong than say something boring.
    enno99 wrote: »
    Yeah right read the article she was quoted in the context of them being of naked teenagers
    The article does not say the pictures are of naked teenagers, it implies it but that means nothing in the context of a newspaper article, journalists make a living from implying things they know aren't true.
    enno99 wrote: »
    look im arguing that the pictures exist it cant be clearer
    I can address all your points but it will go on and on
    I gave you way to to change my opinion show me the work that would cause the reaction
    You said you searched all the artists work to find the naked teen pictures and yet you cant produce one Why?
    Um, because they don't exist would be the obvious answer. It's not possible to prove a negative. The onus on the believer to prove their implausible beliefs.


  • #128
    enno99
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,988 ✭✭✭enno99


    ScumLord wrote: »
    Your right, I don't know what happened there, I searched the document a few times.

    It's a good question. It's an odd way to describe someones art, especially considering when you look up this artist the pictures clearly aren't matching up with this description. But that's journalists for you, they'd rather say something interesting and be wrong than say something boring.

    The article does not say the pictures are of naked teenagers, it implies it but that means nothing in the context of a newspaper article, journalists make a living from implying things they know aren't true.

    Um, because they don't exist would be the obvious answer. It's not possible to prove a negative. The onus on the believer to prove their implausible beliefs    .

    Thank you

    And no call for a retraction or clarification or apology
    I mean they had issues with their address being wrong and it was rectified
    do they sound like the kind of people that would let a journalist write something untrue

    You probably misunderstood I wasnt asking for the naked teenager stuff
    just something that would warrant such a response from their guests


  • #129
    King Mob
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,248 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    enno99 wrote: »
    Thank you

    And no call for a retraction or clarification or apology
    I mean they had issues with their address being wrong and it was rectified
    do they sound like the kind of people that would let a journalist write something untrue

    You probably misunderstood I wasnt asking for the naked teenager stuff
    just something that would warrant such a response from their guests
    Enno99 stop avoiding this:

    Please support the claim the claim that the artist is famous for pictures of naked teenagers.

    Either post examples of this, post a link to something, anything that actually makes reference to this or otherwise explain why the author made this claim when it is not immediately obvious.
    Or otherwise admit that you cannot.


  • #130
    ScumLord
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    enno99 wrote: »
    Thank you

    And no call for a retraction or clarification or apology
    I mean they had issues with their address being wrong and it was rectified
    do they sound like the kind of people that would let a journalist write something untrue

    You probably misunderstood I wasnt asking for the naked teenager stuff
    just something that would warrant such a response from their guests
    Some of the pictures I saw where of scantily clad women, many of them were odd. We don't know what the journalist would consider shocking, and we don't know what her motivations are. The article also says the owners of the house like to shock people, so maybe they weren't to pushed that she said something over the top but at the same time didn't want people to think they weren't living in the nicer part of town.

    Maybe there was a picture of a teenager and that teenager appeared naked but showed no more than you'd see in a bikini.

    Maybe they had historic art there, if you don't like naked teenagers and children you should never visit cities like rome or Florence. There isn't actually anything wrong with nudity, it doesn't have to be sexualised. But people always tend to jump to the conclusion that nakedness means sex. Given how uptight modern society has come about it I wouldn't be surprised if plenty of artists are challenging those assumptions.


  • #131
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 84,646 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    enno99 wrote: »
    Ahh you havent even looked at all the evidence put forward
    and yet you jump to the defence of people that may be involved in this stuff

    Very classy
    enno99 wrote: »
    No but I can use an internet search engine
    You should try it sometime it will help you not to make silly statements
    And this time it was even easier saves wear and tear on your keypad all you had to do was click the link

    [...]

    Here I will give to you again

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A43480-2004Sep22_2.html

    And thanked by King Mob you must be doing something right
    enno99 wrote: »
    Yeah thought so you cant show even one that would horrify people

    Naked teenagers it is then

    Drop the snarky attitude before posting in this thread again.


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  • #132
    enno99
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,988 ✭✭✭enno99


    King Mob wrote: »
    Enno99 stop avoiding this:

    Please support the claim the claim that the artist is famous for pictures of naked teenagers.

    Either post examples of this, post a link to something, anything that actually makes reference to this or otherwise explain why the author made this claim when it is not immediately obvious.
    Or otherwise admit that you cannot.

    What are you babbeling on about

    demanding answers to these rambling killer points you think your making
    is childish
    calling a journalist dishonest before you even bothered to find out who they were



    like I said show one picture that would horrify the guests


  • #133
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 84,646 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    enno99 is taking the day off. Hopefully he returns in a more constructive frame of mind.


  • #134
    King Mob
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,248 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    enno99 wrote: »
    What are you babbeling on about

    demanding answers to these rambling killer points you think your making
    is childish
    calling a journalist dishonest before you even bothered to find out who they were
    I'm focusing on this point for two reasons, first you have ignored 90% of what I've said and second, your entire theory hinges on this one point.

    You are claiming that there was pictures of naked teenagers, but the only time they are mentioned is in this one claim. You are inferring from that.
    However, if that statement turns out to not be true, what do you then have to show there were such pictures there? Nothing.

    You've already stated that you could address all of my points and that you have looked into the artist enough to state with confidence that she has no other shocking art. So surely at some point you must have come across something else that states she was famous for those types of pictures. Instead you dance around the point.

    Googling her does not turn up any such reference. It's not on her wikipedia page at all nor is it mentioned in any profiles of her that I have found. The actual pictures themselves are no where to be found.
    (You had previously tried to claim that she had done them as a private commission for Podesta, yet still claim that made her famous.)

    I'm not accusing the author of being dishonest, her motivations don't really matter. The fact remains that she made this claim but it doesn't seem to be true. You can try and rationalise it if you want.

    So again, the request is simple and should be easy if it's true and you've done the research you've said you've done.
    Please provide any reference that shows this artist is famous for pictures of naked teenagers in their parents homes.
    enno99 wrote: »
    like I said show one picture that would horrify the guests
    I have addressed this several times over several posts. If you want the answer you can go back and address them.
    Or you could accept Scumlord's answer that it's the odd pictures of scantily clad adult women.


  • #135
    Autonomous Cowherd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭Autonomous Cowherd


    I was glancing over the past weeks at this story. My initial response was doubt. I do believe there are pedophile rings in high places. It is a horrific thought, but one that is likely to be true. I subscribe to Tjeerd Andringa's theory whereby the ''kakistocracy'' is manipulated as a result of their base predilections.
    In this case, however, from the beginning it seemed to me to be possibly either 1) a deliberate 'breadcrumb' trail, dove-tailing happily with the 'fake news' outcry from MSM, which will result ultimately in broad censorship of alternative news sources (something I think would be destructive), or/and 2) the result of deluded pattern-seeking among some hysterical internet users.
    Sure, the people implicated here are - at the very least - weird and more than a little repulsive. It is likely that they have sexual inclinations - and cultural tastes - that stray outside the bounds of generally acceptable. I spent time in my youth in wealthy political circles, and deviancy in such circles comes as no surprise. But I think this whole Pizzagate is a cul de sac. It is in some ways convenient. A distraction. Evil breeds comfortably elsewhere.


  • #136
    Ipso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    The feeble minded have found another part of the paedo network.
    http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/12/07/nyregion/robertas-restaurant-brooklyn-threatened-fake-news-pizzagate-conspiracy.html?referer=http%3A%2F%2Fm.facebook.com%2F


  • #137
    enno99
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,988 ✭✭✭enno99


    King Mob wrote: »
    I'm focusing on this point for two reasons, first you have ignored 90% of what I've said and second, your entire theory hinges on this one point.

    You are claiming that there was pictures of naked teenagers, but the only time they are mentioned is in this one claim. You are inferring from that.
    However, if that statement turns out to not be true, what do you then have to show there were such pictures there? Nothing.

    You've already stated that you could address all of my points and that you have looked into the artist enough to state with confidence that she has no other shocking art. So surely at some point you must have come across something else that states she was famous for those types of pictures. Instead you dance around the point.

    Googling her does not turn up any such reference. It's not on her wikipedia page at all nor is it mentioned in any profiles of her that I have found. The actual pictures themselves are no where to be found.
    (You had previously tried to claim that she had done them as a private commission for Podesta, yet still claim that made her famous.)

    I'm not accusing the author of being dishonest, her motivations don't really matter. The fact remains that she made this claim but it doesn't seem to be true. You can try and rationalise it if you want.

    So again, the request is simple and should be easy if it's true and you've done the research you've said you've done.
    Please provide any reference that shows this artist is famous for pictures of naked teenagers in their parents homes.


    I have addressed this several times over several posts. If you want the answer you can go back and address them.
    Or you could accept Scumlord's answer that it's the odd pictures of scantily clad adult women.


    Grannan’s process and the consequent images are informed by her own childhood in the American northeast. Each photograph is imbued with secrecy, desire, and hidden intentions.

    Here, the artist undoes the traditional framework for female nudity, presenting a young girl in her own living room, equipped with a nose ring and boyish haircut.

    https://paddle8.com/work/katy-grannan/85809-untitled-from-poughkeepsie-journal-series

    The result is a cache of images of children, adolescents, teens, young adults, and trusting strangers… Who perform for the camera in ways that are at once scripted and quite candid.”

    https://www.brooklynmuseum.org/eascfa/feminist_art_base/katy-grannan

    Edit: **these links are NSFW and by clicking them you are leaving boards.ie** -mod


  • #138
    King Mob
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,248 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    enno99 wrote: »
    Grannan’s process and the consequent images are informed by her own childhood in the American northeast. Each photograph is imbued with secrecy, desire, and hidden intentions.

    Here, the artist undoes the traditional framework for female nudity, presenting a young girl in her own living room, equipped with a nose ring and boyish haircut.

    https://paddle8.com/work/katy-grannan/85809-untitled-from-poughkeepsie-journal-series

    The result is a cache of images of children, adolescents, teens, young adults, and trusting strangers… Who perform for the camera in ways that are at once scripted and quite candid.”

    https://www.brooklynmuseum.org/eascfa/feminist_art_base/katy-grannan
    Ok, Great. I concede that these photographs exist and are likely the ones referenced in the article.

    Now that you can actually see the photos, can you explain what is objectionable, suspicious or illegal about them?

    Could you then explain how owning these pictures indicates that Podesta is involved in a satanic child abuse circle? (Or whatever point you are trying to make.)


  • #139
    enno99
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,988 ✭✭✭enno99


    King Mob wrote: »
    Ok, Great. I concede that these photographs exist and are likely the ones referenced in the article.

    Now that you can actually see the photos, can you explain what is objectionable, suspicious or illegal about them?

    Could you then explain how owning these pictures indicates that Podesta is involved in a satanic child abuse circle? (Or whatever point you are trying to make.)

    I doubt you will find the actual pictures on the internet

    "They were horrified," Heather recalls, a grin spreading across her face.


  • #140
    King Mob
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,248 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    enno99 wrote: »
    I doubt you will find the actual pictures on the internet
    Why not exactly? Please stop being vague.
    Is that picture you posted not one of them?

    Again could you please explain what you believe is objectionable, suspicious or illegal about these pictures?


  • #141
    deco nate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,340 ✭✭✭deco nate


    Nothing about those 4/5 photos are illegal?!

    What's going on here??


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  • #142
    King Mob
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,248 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    deco nate wrote: »
    Nothing about those 4/5 photos are illegal?!

    What's going on here??
    I'm not sure what you mean by this:
    Do you believe that those photos are in fact child porn then, and therefore the artist and Podesta are guilty of producing and owning child porn as well as the site hosting them?


  • #143
    deco nate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,340 ✭✭✭deco nate


    King Mob wrote: »
    I'm not sure what you mean by this:
    Do you believe that those photos are in fact child porn then, and therefore the artist and Podesta are guilty of producing and owning child porn as well as the site hosting them?

    Can you read? I said I can't see anything illegal about those photos! You just trying to have a go?

    What's your problem?
    Edit: I stated there's nothing illegal about them


  • #144
    King Mob
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,248 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    deco nate wrote: »
    Can you read? I said I can't see anything illegal about those photos! You just trying to have a go?
    No, Sorry. I mis-read you.


  • #145
    enno99
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,988 ✭✭✭enno99


    King Mob wrote: »
    Why not exactly? Please stop being vague.
    Is that picture you posted not one of them?

    Again could you please explain what you believe is objectionable, suspicious or illegal about these pictures?

    why are you asking me what photographs are hanging in bedroom in someones house that caused guests to be horrified
    how would I know
    you asked me to give you something to substantiate the claim made by the journalist
    I done what you asked
    I made no other claims other that I found it disturbing that people liked this type of art and serial killer stuff
    you are the one who brought it to a whole other level claiming they didnt exist and the journalist was lying

    They are certainly not the ones in the links so there must be others do you agree


  • #146
    deco nate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,340 ✭✭✭deco nate


    enno99 wrote: »
    why are you asking me what photographs are hanging in bedroom in someones house that caused guests to be horrified
    how would I know
    you asked me to give you something to substantiate the claim made by the journalist
    I done what you asked
    I made no other claims other that I found it disturbing that people liked this type of art and serial killer stuff
    you are the one who brought it to a whole other level claiming they didnt exist and the journalist was lying

    They are certainly not the ones in the links so there must be others do you agree

    No, until they are exposed. even the source you claim backed down. Most likely the same photos you linked, yanks have an more uptight view than us.

    Take a rest


  • #147
    King Mob
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,248 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    enno99 wrote: »
    why are you asking me what photographs are hanging in bedroom in someones house that caused guests to be horrified
    how would I know
    you asked me to give you something to substantiate the claim made by the journalist
    I done what you asked
    So then you have not found pictures of hers that show naked teenagers?
    Neither article refers to teenagers being naked, so I assumed that that picture was your evidence. Now you are saying it's not.
    Then how is the claim made by the journalist substantiated?

    Why are you now saying that you don't know what pictures were hanging in the bedroom when you've been insisting that the only possible answer is child porn?
    enno99 wrote: »
    I made no other claims other that I found it disturbing that people liked this type of art and serial killer stuff
    Again "Liking serial killer stuff" = "Watched a popular TV show". And is a different person.
    Why do you find their taste in art disturbing and then what relevance does this have to anything? What point are you trying to make?
    enno99 wrote: »
    They are certainly not the ones in the links so there must be others do you agree
    No I don't agree.
    I think that having naked pictures like the one you posted would be "horrifying" to some people.
    The link you posted refers to her as "a young girl", yet has no issue posting the image. So either she is 18-19 (thus a teenager) or that she is underage, but the image is not considered pornographic. (Something you must agree with since you had no issue posting it.)

    I think that picture fits the description in the article well enough. There is nothing to suggest that their are other pictures that are pornographic.


  • #148
    enno99
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,988 ✭✭✭enno99


    If you say so :D


  • #149
    deco nate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,340 ✭✭✭deco nate


    enno99 wrote: »
    If you say so :D

    At last.... :)


  • #150
    King Mob
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,248 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    enno99 wrote: »
    If you say so :D
    Well if you actually want to defend your points, you're welcome to.

    Otherwise I think it's just been shown that there's nothing to this conspiracy when you actually examine it critically.
    None of the evidence holds up to scrutiny and it all relies on lies, half truths, dishonest presentation and just a vague ill-defined suspicion that you have because people told you to be suspicious.

    But still, this crap gets spread around...


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  • #151
    deco nate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,340 ✭✭✭deco nate


    King Mob wrote: »
    Well if you actually want to defend your points, you're welcome to.

    Otherwise I think it's just been shown that there's nothing to this conspiracy when you actually examine it critically.
    None of the evidence holds up to scrutiny and it all relies on lies, half truths, dishonest presentation and just a vague ill-defined suspicion that you have because people told you to be suspicious.

    But still, this crap gets spread around...

    I Only came across this thread tonight, as you know. However I read about this story when it broke. And believe me when I say that the journalist jumped the gun big time, then backed down. Not because of pressure. But because of their small minded middle American views.. Again Nothing in those photos are illegal on either side of the Atlantic. Maybe frowned upon in the US. By middle Americans. But that is all, case closed...


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