McGregors two UfC belts "Watered down history" - Irish Times

badabing106

They implied that because the feather weight belt was only around since 2008, and the Lightweight since 2001?

I.e , that the sport is so young, that the achievement is not as high? Would anyone agree? Is that fair?

Bunny Colvin

badabing106 wrote: »

They implied that because the feather weight belt was only around since 2008, and the Lightweight since 2001?

I.e , that the sport is so young, that the achievement is not as high? Would anyone agree? Is that fair?

What would The Irish Times know about MMA?

The Farmer's Journal on the other hand, had a brilliant breakdown on why Alvarez struggled to close the distance.

Paully D

If only he had completed a proper sporting achievement, like winning a glorified friendly in rugby which the Times are still creaming themselves over...

Tommy Kelly

I hope Neeson and the rest of the Rugger crowd fail to win the right to host the world cup.

.ak

Paully D wrote: »

If only he had completed a proper sporting achievement, like winning a glorified friendly in rugby which the Times are still creaming themselves over...

And rightly so.

CINCLANTFLT

I might be unsure about MMA, I might find McGregor a bit OTT, but the man is a world champion and is a world class showman... we should be proud!

(I don't even watch MMA / UFC, but even I think this!€

ASOT

WWN hits the nail on the head.

http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2016/04/13/i-dont-need-to-know-the-details-to-form-an-opinion-on-mma/

dashoonage

The Irish Times will do ****ing nothing...

bur

It's reduced because Aldo is interim, and he beat a fighter with zero defences, and has zero defences himself.

PPV numbers are unmatched though if that is how you judge these things.

Subcomandante Marcos

bur wrote: »

It's reduced because Aldo is interim, and he beat a fighter with zero defences, and has zero defences himself.

PPV numbers are unmatched though if that is how you judge these things.

I hadn't even thought of this.

Conor isn't an undisputed 2 weight world champion.

He's the undisputed Light Weight world champion, but there's an interim champion at FW.

The idiocy of the UFC's throwing around interim belts for ****s and giggles is highlighted again.

Wrongway1985

When Ali first won WBA/WBC boxing titles they'd been in existence a year /thread

Subcomandante Marcos

The Irish Times can go and do one though, WTF do they know about combat sports? Even their boxing coverage is painful to read.

darced

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mdwexford

bur wrote: »

It's reduced because Aldo is interim, and he beat a fighter with zero defences, and has zero defences himself.

What absolute nonsense.

Subcomandante Marcos

mdwexford wrote: »

What absolute nonsense.

Not really though.

He's not the undisputed Featherweight Champion... That's a fact.
And the UFC allowed it to be a fact due to their inability to take championships seriously.

darced

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I agree. I mean, I am a massive massive Conor fan and I am a complete fan boy butttt he has 0 featherweight defenses, fought for the lightweight title against a guy with 0 defenses and Conor had 0 fights at lightweight in the UFC. I mean his achievement is great but it would have meant so much more if he had some defenses of his featherweight title.

In regard to the OP, **** the Irish Times

buzzing147

Doubt it'd of been discussed at all if there were 10 more seconds left in his 2nd fight with diaz, which i thought diaz won anyway but probably needed to ko him, hence the 10 more seconds part.

Gamb!t

Tommy Kelly wrote: »

I hope Neeson and the rest of the Rugger crowd fail to win the right to host the world cup.

Why?

darced

This post has been deleted.

GerryDerpy

buzzing147 wrote: »

Doubt it'd of been discussed at all if there were 10 more seconds left in his 2nd fight with diaz, which i thought diaz won anyway but probably needed to ko him, hence the 10 more seconds part.

If there was 1 minute less in the first fight then Conor wins. That is as ridiculous as your point. There are rules. You must win within the pre agreed time limits.

Oodoov

Surprised anyone reads the Times anymore. No time for MMA but McGregor deserves a lot of respect for what he has achieved.

um7y1h83ge06nx

Tommy Kelly wrote: »

I hope Neeson and the rest of the Rugger crowd fail to win the right to host the world cup.

Ah now, it's not a case of supporting one or the other sport, people are allowed to support several sports.

Last weekend I watched Munster in the rugby, Ireland in the rugby, unfortunately missed the football and also watched the MMA.

buzzing147

GerryDerpy wrote: »

If there was 1 minute less in the first fight then Conor wins. That is as ridiculous as your point. There are rules. You must win within the pre agreed time limits.

Hopefully he will fight diaz for a 3rd time we will see then

Pudsy33

Elle Wide Photograph wrote: »

Ah now, it's not a case of supporting one or the other sport, people are allowed to support several sports.

Last weekend I watched Munster in the rugby, Ireland in the rugby, unfortunately missed the football and also watched the MMA.

This is the crux of it for me. I will support an Irishman or woman in their chosen sport, whatever it may be. I was equally delighted by the rugby win over NZ, the football win in Vienna, and the McGregor fight.

Why a paper like the times, and many others too, feels the need to belittle the achievement of one of our own is beyond me. Is it a class thing? Pathetic if so.

darced

This post has been deleted.

Depp

GerryDerpy wrote: »

If there was 1 minute less in the first fight then Conor wins. That is as ridiculous as your point. There are rules. You must win within the pre agreed time limits.

yeah but if it was in the streets...:D:D

wonderfullife

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

I hadn't even thought of this.

Conor isn't an undisputed 2 weight world champion.

He's the undisputed Light Weight world champion, but there's an interim champion at FW.

The idiocy of the UFC's throwing around interim belts for ****s and giggles is highlighted again.

Bruce Buffer introduced Jose Aldo as the "Undisputed Featherweight Champion of the World" in his fight against Conor.

I tweeted Bruce Buffer on the night saying "Surely an interim title means it is, in fact, DISPUTED?"

Conor will be introduced as "undisputed" in both weight divisions as well, even if LW introduce an interim title for Khabib v Ferguson.

It's nonsensical.

Swashbuckler

wonderfullife wrote:

Bruce Buffer introduced Jose Aldo as the "Undisputed Featherweight Champion of the World" in his fight against Conor.

I thought that particular example was a fu*k up on the night?

.ak

Gamb!t wrote: »

Why?

Because begrudgery is an Irish pastime.

darced

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

If Conor truly wanted to make 145 and beat Aldo I am sure he could, but if you are as rich as he is, why bother killing yourself to make that weight when you dont have to?

I hope Conor can have a long run at lightweight, every time anyone doubts Conor he proves them wrong, so I hope he continues doing so.

mdwexford

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

Not really though.

He's not the undisputed Featherweight Champion... That's a fact.
And the UFC allowed it to be a fact due to their inability to take championships seriously.

Creating that belt for Aldo Edgar was stupid.

He's beaten Aldo so in my view it doesn't take away from his achievements in the least.

GerryDerpy

buzzing147 wrote: »

Hopefully he will fight diaz for a 3rd time we will see then

Well Diaz will have another 25 minutes to try KO Conor. He has to KO him IMO, Conor will outscore again otherwise. And if you think Conor was close to a KO then you listened to Mr Rogan too much.

wonderfullife

Swashbuckler wrote: »

I thought that particular example was a fu*k up on the night?

Possibly. Buffer didn't introduce Cain Velasquez as "Undisputed" when Werdum held the interim belt. He just said "reigning, defending". So it's possible it was just a mess-up!

Paully D

Paully D wrote: »

If only he had completed a proper sporting achievement, like winning a glorified friendly in rugby which the Times are still creaming themselves over...

In a thread where we a criticising the media for ignorantly belittling a sporting achievement, you go on to ignorantly belittle another sporting achievement

snotboogie

Second Captains (of the Irish Times) had a pretty disgraceful piece on McGreggor on Monday. They subjected us to the wonderful MMA insights of Dave Hannigan, who took the time to question the qualifications of MMA as a sport and then spent the rest of the segment winding each other up over comparisons to Mohamed Ali that apparently all MMA fans are now making.

Hoki

Did I miss the link to this article? Can't see it in thread. Was it a Davey Hannigan piece out of curiosity? The guy comes across as an insufferable arsehole when talking or writing about mma.
His interview with the second captains on Monday was cringe worthy. Got so wound up, slated the Polish women's poor English (I think they both have good English fwiw) said the Woodley Thompson fight should have been stopped (arguable but i disagree) and almost had a stroke when the lads suggested Mcgregor is the modern day Mohammed AlI regarding personality etc...
I think the guy is pissed off that the UFC is getting so big compared to Boxing which is possibly in decline.

snotboogie

Hoki wrote: »

Did I miss the link to this article? Can't see it in thread. Was it a Davey Hannigan piece out of curiosity? The guy comes across as an insufferable arsehole when talking or writing about mma.
His interview with the second captains on Monday was cringe worthy. Got so wound up, slated the Polish women's poor English (I think they both have good English fwiw) said the Woodley Thompson fight should have been stopped (arguable but i disagree) and almost had a stroke when the lads suggested Mcgregor is the modern day Mohammed AlI regarding personality etc...
I think the guy is pissed off that the UFC is getting so big compared to Boxing which is possibly in decline.

Ken retweeting a great MMA article yesterday:
https://twitter.com/kenearlys/status/798849183432065024

Outlaw Pete

Unfortunately I don't think MMA will ever be respected by mainstream society, in the way boxing is mostly for example, when a fighter can sustain an injury like the one Santos did recently.





I know people have been put in comas and even died after boxing bouts, or even after a mere football or rugby match for that matter... but society just sees such injuries as a form of collateral damage given they are not deliberately being sought in those sports and for that reason I don't think MMA will ever be taken seriously and respected as a sport.

Unless that is that the rules evolve more than they already have with regards to striking of the head with elbows and knees. Even kickboxing I don't think has ever really been respected all that much by society. Judo and Taekwondo I think are the only martial arts ever to be included in the Olympics for example and the latter uses protective head gear.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcQAHNDe_tw

Interestingly though, Sport Karate (Kata and Kumite) will make its first appearance as an Olympic sport at the 2020 Summer Olympics in Japan. It's not full contact Karate (from the what I can tell) and feet and hand pads will also be used but it's still the first time a sport that has included head strikes will be in the Olympics without the requirement of protective head-gear.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2YKdIlavew

ktulu123

snotboogie wrote: »

Second Captains (of the Irish Times) had a pretty disgraceful piece on McGreggor on Monday. They subjected us to the wonderful MMA insights of Dave Hannigan, who took the time to question the qualifications of MMA as a sport and then spent the rest of the segment winding each other up over comparisons to Mohamed Ali that apparently all MMA fans are now making.

Hoki wrote: »

Did I miss the link to this article? Can't see it in thread. Was it a Davey Hannigan piece out of curiosity? The guy comes across as an insufferable arsehole when talking or writing about mma.
His interview with the second captains on Monday was cringe worthy. Got so wound up, slated the Polish women's poor English (I think they both have good English fwiw) said the Woodley Thompson fight should have been stopped (arguable but i disagree) and almost had a stroke when the lads suggested Mcgregor is the modern day Mohammed AlI regarding personality etc...
I think the guy is pissed off that the UFC is getting so big compared to Boxing which is possibly in decline.

I usually listen to and enjoy the second captions podcasts(for their rugby coverage) but this latest one was a joke. Why not get someone on that is educated about the sport rather than a guy like Dave Hannigan, who seems like the George Hook of combat sports. Stuck in the past & dismisses anyone that disagrees with his opinion.

I think you might be right in that he is pissed off his beloved boxing is not as popular as it once was and the fact MMA & the UFC are growing stronger every day.

dashoonage

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

first time a sport that has included head strikes will be in the Olympics without the requirement of protective head-gear.

eh?

Boxing no ?

Blackthorn Fight School

Why do these comments on MMA always come back to elbows, knees and ground and pound being the worst things ever and how unsafe MMA is. Anyone who knows about brain trauma will realise how safe MMA is compared to other sports I partially agree about elbows but for other reasons, but would also like to bring soccer kicks back and get rid of gloves as they would both make the sport safer.

We are a tiny nation why cant people just be proud of the achievements of fellow Irish men and women rather than trying to take some moral high ground about it. Simple dont like it then dont watch it. I dont like football I dont watch it simple as that and dont comment on things you have no idea about.

Outlaw Pete

dashoonage wrote: »

eh?

Boxing no ?

I was clearly talking about knees and elbow strikes to the head:

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Unless that is that the rules evolve more than they already have with regards to striking of the head with elbows and knees.

Blackthorn Fight School wrote: »

Why do these comments on MMA always come back to elbows, knees and ground and pound being the worst things ever and how unsafe MMA is.

Because it's not a socially acceptable way of fighting is my guess. I have tried to show family members fights of Conor's and they made me switch it off. It was the Mendes fight which I put on as I wanted them to watch Conor winning the belt and crying etc as they don't like him and take his antics much too seriously. As soon as they seen the elbows on the ground though, they lost it and for the next two hours over Christmas dinner I had to explain how I could watch such "barbarity" This from people that stayed up until the wee hours in the 80's to watch McGuigan fighting and that cried tears of joy when he won.

Maybe one day the attitude towards mma will change but I'm not so sure tbh.

bur

bur wrote: »

It's reduced because Aldo is interim, and he beat a fighter with zero defences, and has zero defences himself.

PPV numbers are unmatched though if that is how you judge these things.

But sure nothing could touch Aldo for ten years?

wonderfullife

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

This from people that stayed up until the wee hours in the 80's to watch McGuigan fighting and that cried tears of joy when he won.

Maybe one day the attitude towards mma will change but I'm not so sure tbh.

The best question to ask your relatives/family is this:

If Barry McGuigan in his prime knocked his opponent down and was allowed to throw punches to his downed opponent (who is throwing punches back) would they have a problem with it?

If the answer is yes then their problem is related to an ingrained notion that a fist fight should be standing up.

If their answer is no, then it's clearly elbows and kicks that's their problem. If kicks are their main issue, ask how many of them watched the Karate Kid. I'd say most of Ireland has seen the Karate Kid by now and most of us over 30 it's a classic movie in the same way Breakfast Club and The Goonies were 'classics'.

I.e. I don't think people have logical reasons for opposing MMA. I think it's the same reason a lot of people over 50 refuse to learn how to use the internet or smart phones - They like to stick to what they know.

Lukker-

I think the attitude of the main stream media towards MMA is reflective of the industry in general and it's steep decline. Instead of embracing the fastest growing sport in the world which a large demographic of their younger readers would have a major interest in, they result to bashing something they simply don't understand.

It's like they think if denigrate it enough it will go away. In the internet age, the media's agenda alone isn't going to sway us from our interests, no matter how much they want it to. It's an oversight on their part and a missed opportunity too. They are simply content to rest on their laurels, and have dinosaur writers who have no interest in learning the intricate details of the sport continue to spew nonsense about something they don't want to understand.

Not simply content with dissing the sport as a whole, journalists at these papers also tend to belittle McGregor as much as possible. He clearly has his faults, like most most people under constant media scrutiny do, but by sh*tting on him they also sh*t on a large portion of a young generation who look to him as an inspiration, who's situation mirrored that of their own, growing up in a time of very little opportunity and having the self-belief to achieve a dream many would have ridiculed him for.

wonderfullife

They are also missing out in a big way.

UFC 205 did 14 billion impressions on social media on saturday night/sunday morning. The Superbowl did 4.4 billion impressions.

RTE.ie finally bit the bullet and introduced an MMA tab in their sports section of the website in June.

To this day, BBC.com does not have a tab for MMA. Weirdly, it does have tabs for sporting giants such as Modern Pentathlon and Taekwondo.

In the social media age we live in, the only explanation for this is absolute pig-ignorance. You'd have to be a complete fool to run any major news organisation and not capitalize on the sheer volume of interest that MMA generates.

I'm not for one minute suggesting or expecting RTE or BBC to start covering Bellator or WSOF - but to not cover the UFC given the undeniable traffic it brings is borderline criminal. Both RTE and BBC sell advertising space on their website. Nobody in their right mind can tell me someone will pay more for to advertise on the Modern Pentathlon page on BBC.com.

It'll slowly change over the years but they're using editorial snobbery to deprive themselves of advertising revenues.

Standman

I think it's the elbows/knees to the head, beating on downed opponents, what some would view as "dirty fighting" in MMA that repels the average person who's not familiar with it, and what leads to the backlash in the media by extension.

It looks barbaric, and in some cases it is. Sometimes I find it hard to watch as someone gets ruthlessly pummeled on the ground while the ref takes too long to stop it. People often counter that boxing is violent/dangerous too, and of course it is, but it's just not the same to watch someone get mauled on the feet as it to see it happen on the ground with elbows and fists.

It may be true that boxing is actually more dangerous in the long run because of the standing count allowing possibly concussed fighters to recover and receive more damage, but what matters to the casual observer is how it looks in the moment.

I'm a fan of MMA and really hope it becomes more accepted. The above is just my take on why many people are repulsed by it initially, which is fairly understandable given what seems like an innate idea of what "dirty" and "clean" fighting is supposed to be.

stephenl15

wonderfullife wrote: »

To this day, BBC.com does not have a tab for MMA. Weirdly, it does have tabs for sporting giants such as Modern Pentathlon and Taekwondo.

Just had a look. It's hilarious


A
American Football
Archery
Athletics
B
Badminton
Baseball
Basketball
Bowls
Boxing
C
Canoeing
Cricket
Curling
Cycling
D
Darts
Disability Sport
Diving
E
Equestrian
F
Fencing
Football
Formula 1
G
Gaelic Games
Golf
Gymnastics
H
Handball
Hockey
Horse Racing
I
Ice Hockey
J
Judo
M
Modern Pentathlon
Motorsport
N
Netball
O
Olympic Sports
R
Rowing
Rugby League
Rugby Union
S
Sailing
Shooting
Snooker
Squash
Swimming
T
Table Tennis
Taekwondo
Tennis
Triathlon
V
Volleyball
W
Weightlifting
Winter Sports
Wrestling

Mother of God the sports they have there but no MMA.

wonderfullife

Crazy. Crazier still they do run McGregor articles on their site but they don't have it categorized so the only way to find it is to use google search engine or the BBC search engine. You won't find it by merely browsing the site because there's no MMA tab.

Wrongway1985

wonderfullife wrote: »

To this day, BBC.com does not have a tab for MMA. Weirdly, it does have tabs for sporting giants such as Modern Pentathlon and Taekwondo.

Tbf Jade Jones is why the Taekwondo tab is there.

It's a bizarre one think their BBC3 deal runs out after Belfast event? BBC3 only online now and all their UFC coverage is shafted there and not on their sport webpages.

On another note Bisping is an outstanding candidate for sports personality of the year! Lets be honest though they'll give it to a man with none Andy Murray again me thinks he scooped award last time after out after winning the mighty Davis cup as part of a team no less! This time around he's #1 in the world and a Wimbeldon and Gold medal in back pocket.

DrPhilG

2 things that turn people off MMA in my opinion.

Ground fighting and blood. People can't get past the assumption that of someone is getting hit while on the ground, they must be defenceless and getting battered. And there are more cuts in MMA due to knees and elbows.

I had the usual discussion with a girl in work today, who announced that she hated that "oul cage fighting stuff". I have no issue with that in itself, my wife hates it too. But my wife hates all combat sports. This goofball in work proceeded to explain how boxing was fine because it doesn't look as savage.

I R couldn't resist educating her but it's pointless really. People have their pre conceived ideas and no amount of logic or common sense will change them.