Campaign calls for cyclists to hold insurance, pay road tax

Annie get your Run

dbagman wrote: »

Forget the insurance bit for a second, any cyclist that disagrees a lesson/licence in road safety and the rules of the road for the most vulnerable of road users is a stupid idea shouldn't be let use the roads. It's quite clear alot of cyclists don't have a basic understanding of road safety. Mind you the same could be said for some motorists, but that's another story.

Actually it's not "another" story, it's all part of the same story. Plenty of people in Ireland, regardless of their mode of transportation, don't understand (or don't bother obeying) the rules of the road.

This argument is done to death. Every day I see acts by car drivers, moped users, bus drivers, pedestrians and cyclists that clearly contravene the rules of the road. The problem lies with enforcement, until we have some it seems were incapable of doing as we should. I'm sick to death of this going around in circles rubbish. No one section is immune from wrong doing so can we stop pointing fingers and start acting like grown ups and ALL obey the rules??!

ThisRegard

Jawgap wrote: »

You got a turn in the pedal cars......then you had to do a stint as a pedestrian.....then the really good pedestrians got another go in the pedal cars.....




......I never got a second go in the pedal cars.......


B@stard Guards!!!!

Lol, there was a massive clamber for the pedal cars on our trips too. Everyone already had bikes so feic those yokes they had, we wanted to pretend to be drivers. I was quite short so they were a massive disappointment for me, struggled to get the yokes moving.

amcalester

dbagman wrote: »

Forget the insurance bit for a second, any cyclist that disagrees a lesson/licence in road safety and the rules of the road for the most vulnerable of road users is a stupid idea shouldn't be let use the roads. It's quite clear alot of cyclists don't have a basic understanding of road safety. Mind you the same could be said for some motorists, but that's another story.

But all motorists have undergone such training and, as you admit, some are still unaware of road safety.

Any initiative or training etc is worthless unless we have improved enforcement.

Break a red light (motorist or cyclist) get a fine.

No lights or blown bulb, here's a fine.

Dangerous overtaking, etc etc receive a fine.

Rokta

+1 above

People should stop generalize and point fingers at one group only. The general adherence to the rules of the road in this country is piss poor.

I will never forget standing the first time at O'Connell Street as a pedestrian at the traffic light looking dumbfounded as I was literally the only one standing.... the rest was crossing the road at a red light.

Sleeper12

ted1 wrote:

What kind on insurance would I need if I fell? Out of work ? Medical ? Etc? Flesh it out , my medical insurance will cover if I fall, my work pays if I'm out injured.

I remember a chap died by falling off a bike in the 80s. Rathfarnham area I think. Before head gear was around. I know insurance wouldn't have been much good to him but he could have broken his neck and possibly in a wheelchair for life. Insurance would have been good in that case.

amcalester

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

A recent report in the UK relating to accidents involving cyclists and motor vehicles found that motorists were responsible for the accident in 100% of cases.

Not sure if this was sarcasm but I'd imagine that the only accidents that get reported are ones where the cyclist is sure he/she is in the right.

fat bloke

The mind boggles. Do these people have children? Were they ever children themselves?

"Woo hoo", said little Johnny. "Santa brought me a new bike for Christmas!!!!"
"Wow" said his best friend Chris. "Me too!! I can't wait til January 2nd when the insurance company call centres reopen and we can start ringing around for quotations!!! This'll be the best Christmas ever!!!"

ted1

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I remember a chap died by falling off a bike in the 80s. Rathfarnham area I think. Before head gear was around. I know insurance wouldn't have been much good to him but he could have broken his neck and possibly in a wheelchair for life. Insurance would have been good in that case.

Right so because 1 person died in the 80s and insurance wouldn't have helped you think that it should be made compulsory,
Go back and read what you write and tell me your not trolling.

The man in the 80s was Mr.Klotz , his daughter was in my class.

Sleeper12

ted1 wrote:

Right so because 1 person died in the 80s and insurance wouldn't have helped you think that it should be made compulsory, Go back and read what you write and tell me your not trolling.

Ah Ted I don't troll. I'm not saying anything off the wall to annoy anyone. I just said I thought it was a good idea. Didn't say compulsory. Compulsory requires registration plates and I can't see it as workable. The cops can't catch all the uninsured motorists as it is. I also suggested teaching rules of the road to everyone in school. I believe everyone should be able to pass the theory test before leaving school. Everyone benefits, motorists,cyclists and pedestrians. It's a valid point of view.
Promise you im not trolling.

Sleeper12

ted1 wrote:

The man in the 80s was Mr.Klotz , his daughter was in my class.

Sorry I missed this part. Was it rathfarnham area? Don't know why rathfarnham is sticking in my head.

John_Rambo

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2009/dec/15/cycling-bike-accidents-study

Department for Transport study in the UK where the data, which was analysed by the Transport Research Laboratory.

"With adult cyclists, police found the driver solely responsible in about 60%-75% of all cases, and riders solely at fault 17%-25% of the time."

I'd imagine the results would be similar here with heavier responsibility on drivers as UK drivers tend to be better than Irish drivers. Obviously drivers need to be educated about driving responsibly where cyclists are involved.

Maybe there should be a course introduced where drivers are coached on how to drive responsibly, use they're mirrors etc.. when it comes to sharing the roads with cyclists? Certainly, taking drivers out of the car and on to bikes for journeys should be mandatory for able bodied people. Most adult cyclists are drivers but most adult drivers are not cyclists and they're usually the culprits.

ted1

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Sorry I missed this part. Was it rathfarnham area? Don't know why rathfarnham is sticking in my head.

Yes , that's the area , if I recall correctly his Saddle cane loose and he came off the bike.

Sleeper12

John_Rambo wrote:

Maybe there should be a course introduced where drivers are coached on how to drive responsibly, use they're mirrors etc.. when it comes to sharing the roads with cyclists? Certainly, taking drivers out of the car and on to bikes for journeys should be mandatory for able bodied people. Most adult cyclists are drivers but most adult drivers are not cyclists and they're usually the culprits.

And get them off the bloody mobile phone while driving! I'd have thought that compulsory Bluetooth in cars might help but that won't stop the texting

Sleeper12

ted1 wrote:

Yes , that's the area , if I recall correctly his Saddle cane loose and he came off the bike.

I'm not a cyclist but I was shocked when I read it. It started a big push for headgear. Must have been terrible for his family

Hmmzis

If you fall off you bike and injure yourself it's covered by your health insurance if you have one. If you don't have one then the public healthcare system is going to take care of your injuries (we still have one).

If you have household insurance it covers your 3rd party liability when outside the house but not in or on a motor vehicle, walking and cycling is covered in this regard.

What other insurace would one like to impose? Mandatory insurance of the bike itself?

railer201

Perish the thought - bureaucracy getting their hands on bicycles.

John_Rambo

If road tax were to be introduced for road users it would be fairly minimal for cyclists, but motorists would be hit very hard giving the fact that they can use all roads including the most expensive ones to construct and maintain. Motorists also cause most of wear, tear, accidents, maintenance and damage to roads and road infrastructure.

That, on top of motor tax would be a disaster for motoring lobbyists.

Only a foolish motorist would call for road tax.

Lemming

Not having read four pages; Jawgap ... as the OP can you answer me this? If I click on that IrishTimes link, will I lose IQ points from the apparent display of 'dumb' on show?

Cookie_Monster

I agree with the call for education of ROTR in schools, especially with an emphasis on socio-economic, health and environmental impacts of road usage and vehicle type. Everyone should have to cover it, we could cover the costs of this by increasing motor tax :pac::pac:

Jawgap

Lemming wrote: »

Not having read four pages; Jawgap ... as the OP can you answer me this? If I click on that IrishTimes link, will I lose IQ points from the apparent display of 'dumb' on show?

Probably not......but you will get a good laugh, followed by a creeping curiosity about the Irish Times gradual descent into click-bait, controversial-for-controversial sake 'journalism' and when it actually began.....imo, the day in question was when some editor said "Hey, why don't give Una Mulally a by-line".....

......wouldn't have happened in the Major's day, let me tell you

joey100

A better idea would be to make all car drivers cycle for a week and see how they find it, see what a close pass feels like, see what it's like dealing with the constant aggression from drivers. Maybe a bit of empathy towards cyclists is what's needed.

average_runner

joey100 wrote: »

A better idea would be to make all car drivers cycle for a week and see how they find it, see what a close pass feels like, see what it's like dealing with the constant aggression from drivers. Maybe a bit of empathy towards cyclists is what's needed.

That works both ways, you swear cyclists were angels. Coming down Dame St today and guess whats on the footpath, cyclist cycling.


I think insurance for cyclists wouldnt be a bad thing, 50 euro a year max, just in case you have an accident and you damage a car or hurt someone when your in the wrong,

A cyclist broke my friends leg last year as the cyclists went through the red light. My friend had to look after his own expenses which is wrong.

If a car went through the red light and hit the cyclist, the driver would have to cover the costs.

ted1

average_runner wrote: »

That works both ways, you swear cyclists were angels. Coming down Dame St today and guess whats on the footpath, cyclist cycling.


I think insurance for cyclists wouldnt be a bad thing, 50 euro a year max, just in case you have an accident and you damage a car or hurt someone when your in the wrong,

A cyclist broke my friends leg last year as the cyclists went through the red light. My friend had to look after his own expenses which is wrong.

If a car went through the red light and hit the cyclist, the driver would have to cover the costs.

Did your friend not bring a civil case to get damages ?

50 euro a year? So that's 40 for admin and 10 for insurance. So tell me where you got this figure from? Is it based on policies v claims or did you pick the figure from your ar5e?
Or is it that you pay car insurance like myself and many other Cyclusts do and you are envious of cyclists

Macy0161

average_runner wrote: »

A cyclist broke my friends leg last year as the cyclists went through the red light. My friend had to look after his own expenses which is wrong.

If a car went through the red light and hit the cyclist, the driver would have to cover the costs.

There's no exemption for cyclists from claims against them. What difference would the cyclist having insurance have made?

Our household of two adults already pays "road" tax and insurance on 3 vehicles. Does this mean I should be entitled ride my bike on the road or not?

Fighting Tao

average_runner wrote: »

That works both ways, you swear cyclists were angels. Coming down Dame St today and guess whats on the footpath, cyclist cycling.


I think insurance for cyclists wouldnt be a bad thing, 50 euro a year max, just in case you have an accident and you damage a car or hurt someone when your in the wrong,

A cyclist broke my friends leg last year as the cyclists went through the red light. My friend had to look after his own expenses which is wrong.

If a car went through the red light and hit the cyclist, the driver would have to cover the costs.

Live many drivers, many cyclists are already have insurance....home policies cover it.

As for your friend I'm sorry to hear that he got injured but the state could have covered medical expenses as we have a public health system. That public health system is also partially paid for by cyclists due to the one big pot all taxes go into.

If we were to note down every thing an idiot does (doesn't matter what form of transport....an idiot is an idiot and not a group) then we would run out of space on the internet!

magicbastarder

i'm currently paying about €500 for my car insurance, and this is probably twice what the figure should be.
suggesting an insurance cost of €50 implies that cyclists are liable in any one year to cause between one tenth and one fifth of the financial cost of what a motorist would. i'd love to see evidence backing this up, as i suspect it's plucked out of thin air.

mickdw

ted1 wrote: »

Did your friend not bring a civil case to get damages ?

50 euro a year? So that's 40 for admin and 10 for insurance. So tell me where you got this figure from? Is it based on policies v claims or did you pick the figure from your ar5e?
Or is it that you pay car insurance like myself and many other Cyclusts do and you are envious of cyclists

Bringing a Civil case will be a waste of time and money if person at fault has no means to pay. Hence the benefit of insurance.
I've said this before but I genuinely believe cyclists should be required to wear a yellow vest with a personal registration number on the back of that vest. They would then hold a road risks type of public liability and all road users would be secure in the knowledge that they have some comeback against a cyclist that damages property.
With this method, there is no registering of bicycles or anything like that, just that all cyclists must be identifiable.

Macy0161

Fighting Tao wrote: »

If we were to note down every thing an idiot does (doesn't matter what form of transport....an idiot is an idiot and not a group) then we would run out of space on the internet!

It's because motorists see cyclists when they are stopped.

Earlier this week waiting (in my car) on Beech Hill Road/ Beaver Road to turn left towards the Goat, a cyclist took an illegal left through red and the driver in front went ape. We got the green, there was a car turning at the first right, mister ape sh!t squeezed by in the mandatory cycle lane. Probably didn't even notice his own illegal move.

joey100

I didn't say anywhere that cyclists were angels. I said car drivers should be made to cycle for a week. It's already been said but the majority of cyclists drive a car, the same can't be said about car drivers. What's the harm in seeing what it's like to cycle in a city? I know when I'm driving the least of my worries is if that cyclist has insurance.

BTW, I'm sorry to hear about your friend.

Macy0161

mickdw wrote: »

Bringing a Civil case will be a waste of time and money if person at fault has no means to pay. Hence the benefit of insurance.
I've said this before but I genuinely believe cyclists should be required to wear a yellow vest with a personal registration number on the back of that vest. They would then hold a road risks type of public liability and all road users would be secure in the knowledge that they have some comeback against a cyclist that damages property.
With this method, there is no registering of bicycles or anything like that, just that all cyclists must be identifiable.

How do you know until you bring a case whether they have no money, or aren't covered?

A registration system works so well for motorists - never see them breaking any laws on our roads...