Cash payments

pami_81

Here is a question that I've been wondering about for some time now, and it's an issue that really bugs me. When I have to get e.g. a plumber or electrician to come to my house to fix something, they expect me to pay in cash on the spot when the work is done. I usually have no idea beforehand if the work is going to cost €30 or €600. How am I supposed to prepare for a cash payment? These are usually urgent cases too, unexpected jobs, or I could get a quote in advance. Why on earth can I not be sent an invoice? That's what happens in other civilised countries, and this is a much fairer process where at least I don't have to cough up several hundred Euros for something that went wrong out of the blue.

Am I within my rights to ask for an invoice with certain payment terms - and what kind of terms - or is that a big no-no?

larchill

These people are all a shower of scaddgers. Bloody tax dodgers, no paper trail & are difficult to trace. Meanwhile the rest of us have to pony up!

SkinnyBuddha

pami_81 wrote: »

Here is a question that I've been wondering about for some time now, and it's an issue that really bugs me. When I have to get e.g. a plumber or electrician to come to my house to fix something, they expect me to pay in cash on the spot when the work is done. I usually have no idea beforehand if the work is going to cost €30 or €600. How am I supposed to prepare for a cash payment? These are usually urgent cases too, unexpected jobs, or I could get a quote in advance. Why on earth can I not be sent an invoice? That's what happens in other civilised countries, and this is a much fairer process where at least I don't have to cough up several hundred Euros for something that went wrong out of the blue.

Am I within my rights to ask for an invoice with certain payment terms - and what kind of terms - or is that a big no-no?

dont be so naive.....pay cash its into the hand and cheap....want an invoice expect to get billed for everything..VAT etc

tuisginideach

Probably because it is so hard for tradespeople to collect the correct payment afterwards - people don't answer the door/"I haven't got cash right now"/ "it's still not right and I had to get someone else so I'm not paying you"/"F**** off" - lots of those people around!

davo10

Most of the time when you call a tradesman to come to your house to do a small/urgent job, you want the job to be done while he/she is there. They have no idea of what the job entails, how long it will take or how much it will cost until they see what the problem is. When they see what the problem is, you can ask what it will cost and if you think the quote is to high, then don't pay it but it would be fair for the tradesman to charge for the time taken to at least come out to your house, after all you called him/her and requested that they come to your house, time is money.

Most tradesmen don't carry card machines, cheques have a tendency to bounce and eaten bread is soon forgotten so invoices after the service has been provided is usually a no go. So for a small job where the service is provided quickly because you neede it, cash is king. Insist on a receipt if you are minded to do so but expect a higher charge because vat will be added.

Vic_08

Or maybe they know from bitter experience that if they don't collect payment at the time they have a high chance of never getting paid.

With the Irish legal system so slow, expensive and unfit for purpose that route is a no-go for recovering small debts either.

drunkmonkey

You have the right to ask but are you looking for credit Terms, you have no right to them. They have to be earned.

You should always ask how much the job is going to cost and if there are any surprises specify that your consulted first to give approval and cost.

Your entitled to an invoice but it could cost extra.

kavanada

Trust! Or lack there of, quite simply.

Can you imagine Irish people paying 2 weeks later for the job the plumber, gardener, etc already did?

They'd never get paid.

There's a culturally inherent lack of honesty with a significantly large minority of the Irish population for your legitimate idea to be unworkable.

Also, I think the majority of plumbers, gardeners, etc would rather not be required to draw up an invoice so as to facilitate the continued cash payment method.

You're from abroad, OP, I take it?

the_pen_turner

just because a tradesman wants cash doesnt mean that vat isnt being charged and that it is cash in hand

i expect cash from all customers that i dont know or trust. nothing wrong with that.
if i get a cheque it can bounce or be in the post . a cheque takes time to clear. cash is king. i can lodge cash and spend it again on the same day. there is no checking to see if the money cleared.


i have been caught a few times where the money hadnt cleared and i couldnt buy stuff for other jobs

kavanada

the_pen_turner wrote: »

just because a tradesman wants cash doesnt mean that vat isnt being charged and that it is cash in hand

i expect cash from all customers that i dont know or trust. nothing wrong with that.
if i get a cheque it can bounce or be in the post . a cheque takes time to clear. cash is king. i can lodge cash and spend it again on the same day. there is no checking to see if the money cleared.


i have been caught a few times where the money hadnt cleared and i couldnt buy stuff for other jobs

In fairness, the majority of tradespeople who physically accept cash for a job but don't provide a receipt there and then aren't going to subsequently declare it for VAT purposes in their figures to Revenue.

I agree with you though, it must've been desperate having to deal with those people who fecked you around with cheques etc that bounced and so see why cash before you leave the job is so much the norm.

Irish people are just not trustworthy.

blindside88

If you have a regular electrician/plumber that you call for these kind of jobs they generally have no problem with being paid the next day in my experience

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

kavanada wrote: »

In fairness, the majority of tradespeople who physically accept cash for a job but don't provide a receipt there and then aren't going to subsequently declare it for VAT purposes in their figures to Revenue.

I agree with you though, it must've been desperate having to deal with those people who fecked you around with cheques etc that bounced and so see why cash before you leave the job is so much the norm.

Irish people are just not trustworthy.

Yes, it's unheard of in Britain, France, USA etc. Nobody there ever looks for cash in completion or fails to pay up afterwards. :rolleyes:

lazybones32

Yeah, I get your point but if I don't know a person, I'm much happier getting paid straight away rather than having to call back (and wait) or even hound a person to get paid. It might sound cynical but there are people trying to screw you for the honest work you provide them with. Oddly, it seems to be those with most money who are most likely to try and shaft you.

Maybe try sticking with the same tradesmen - once the work is to standard - or ask them beforehand if payment could wait until whenever? You can ask for an invoice but the price may increase.

If they are your regular plumber/electrician/dog walker/pool cleaner, there my be enough familiarity established where they feel secure in doing the job first and collecting payment at a later date. However, outside of them being your regular service person with some prior trust built up, they will probably seek payment in cash on the day of the job. I don't blame them one bit, people can be very eager to get the work done and/or the service provided, not just as eager to pay up though.

kavanada

Livia Dazzling Poetess wrote: »

Yes, it's unheard of in Britain, France, USA etc. Nobody there ever looks for cash in completion or fails to pay up afterwards. :rolleyes:

Of course not, Livia Dazzling Poetess.

The OP was asking why is it like the way it is here and not some other countries they'd experienced in Europe.

I could name some countries that the OP is referring to. They are generally located in the Nordics, surprise surprise.

Irish, British, American & French people just aren't trustworthy then😞

amtc

It can go the other way. My parents get milk, eggs, papers delivered. Plus windows and cars washed. People drop in invoices once a year...which leads to big unexpected expenses, so my dad has an elaborate system of jars that he puts money into for each. But he'd prefer to pay weekly!

dudara

Tradespeople prefer immediate payment, so there are no payment issues. Cheques can bounce, people can refuse to pay later. So cash is easiest. Another handy option would be for them to take credit card payment (but that does have associated costs).

Generally, credit terms are only offered business to business (B2B) not business to consumer (B2C). Exceptions would be utilities etc. Generally, in order to award credit terms to a customer, businesses would do a credit check to ensure the creditworthiness of the customer. You can't reasonably expect a tradesperson to do that.

You don't have to get an invoice from a tradesperson, but you should get a proper receipt.

seagull

There's also the fact that they might not pass by very often. The last time I needed an emergency plumber, I had to call someone from further away than I normally would to get someone who was available. Are you prepared to pay for an extra hour of their time to come back the following day/week to collect the money?

newacc2015

Ireland doesnt have a typical court system. In a lot of countries, bouncing a cheque is fraud and will result in a criminal record. In Ireland, bouncing a cheque is just a massive fee to the business and they cant do much to recover the debt. In America, it is easy to go to your local courthouse and get a judgement against someone for not paying for work done. In Ireland, you might not have paid your mortgage in 5 years and your bank still cant repossess your house

Tradesmen will give you grace period to pay up if you know them, but if you dont expect to pay cash.

OP if you sold someone a TV off donedeal, would you be ok with them paying you in a few days? No you would expect cash upfront and so do most tradesmen

L1011

larchill wrote: »

These people are all a shower of scaddgers. Bloody tax dodgers, no paper trail & are difficult to trace. Meanwhile the rest of us have to pony up!

Many businesses trade solely or entirely in cash and are completely legit with regards to tax.

TOEJOE

From experience if the job is small pay cash it should be ok if you know the guy.There are businesses out there that will insist on cash and this is more to do with tax dodging
You know what I mean boss!I got stung this year and I know the building business.

ED E

L1011 wrote: »

Many businesses trade solely or entirely in cash and are completely legit with regards to tax.

While true, its still really common to hear "Its X if you pay cash and its 1.21 * X if you want a receipt". Thats not the cost of the paper.

pilly

Consumers can sometimes get stung the other way though, you pay the cash and the boiler or whatever is not working again the next day and you can't get the tradesman to come back for love nor money.

Thoie

I had to order a chequebook recently precisely to pay for things like tradesmen (I've never had one reject a cheque yet). When ordering it the bank was at pains to tell me that cheques were being abolished and that we're the last country in Europe to have them.

The big problem is that tradesmen often won't/can't take cards or EFTs. I rarely have more than about €20 in cash in the house. I'm not going keep €500 in cash lying around just in case I suddenly need a plumber. I understand some of the reasons they won't take cards (they'd lose 2.5-5% of every transaction, plus monthly fee).

If the banks really want us to lose the chequebooks and become a cashless society, they need to provide an easy way to transfer cash quickly. AIB's Me2U app used be very handy, but they withdrew it. You could enter someone's debit/credit card number and it would go straight to their bank, or just their mobile number, and they'd get a text detailing how they could claim the money.

Muhammed_1

People might need instant money to pay for other things, like doctor visits or medicines, or car breakdowns, or roof repairs after a storm.

It is prudent to have some cash available.

You can visit an ATM machine to take out up to 500 or more on most accounts. I know it sounds predatory but most tradesmen would probably take you to the bank and back if you had no other way of getting the cash.


In the end the work has to be paid for and it is a risk for the tradesman to take anything other than cash from people he has little experience with.

ScouseMouse

I have the opposite problem.

"My" plumber did a job on my brothers house who is abroad. He said to fix him up in a few weeks. He rang me two weeks ago to say Tuesday. I am still waiting for him to appear. Its 2.5k !

crossmolinalad

Thoie wrote: »

I had to order a chequebook recently precisely to pay for things like tradesmen (I've never had one reject a cheque yet). When ordering it the bank was at pains to tell me that cheques were being abolished and that we're the last country in Europe to have them.

The big problem is that tradesmen often won't/can't take cards or EFTs. I rarely have more than about €20 in cash in the house. I'm not going keep €500 in cash lying around just in case I suddenly need a plumber. I understand some of the reasons they won't take cards (they'd lose 2.5-5% of every transaction, plus monthly fee).

If the banks really want us to lose the chequebooks and become a cashless society, they need to provide an easy way to transfer cash quickly. AIB's Me2U app used be very handy, but they withdrew it. You could enter someone's debit/credit card number and it would go straight to their bank, or just their mobile number, and they'd get a text detailing how they could claim the money.

Paid my spark yesterday after the job he has done by internet banking
In minutes it was on his account
In loads of Eu countries like the Netherlands its not allowed by law anymore to pay any workers ,employees ect cash
tradesmen has to sent a bill you must pay within 60 days by bank
Bill is also proof of job done and a quality /guaranty of job well done
Most transactions must be done by bank and you can not take out more than 250 Euro`s out of a ATM a day
Payments above 1000 Euros for a car tv whatever in shop or from just someone else by bank only
Loads of supermarkets and other shops you only can pay by card only , no cash anymore
5 to 10 years they want to ban cash 50 euro`s or more all together

loyatemu

last 3 tradespeople I've dealt with have accepted payment by bank transfer or credit card. most banking apps also allow you to send money to someone's phone number (they then enter their IBAN and the money gets transferred). No excuse for insisting on cash these days.

newacc2015

crossmolinalad wrote: »

Paid my spark yesterday after the job he has done by internet banking
In minutes it was on his account
In loads of Eu countries like the Netherlands its not allowed by law anymore to pay any workers ,employees ect cash
tradesmen has to sent a bill you must pay within 60 days by bank
Bill is also proof of job done and a quality /guaranty of job well done
Most transactions must be done by bank and you can not take out more than 250 Euro`s out of a ATM a day
Payments above 1000 Euros for a car tv whatever in shop or from just someone else by bank only
Loads of supermarkets and other shops you only can pay by card only , no cash anymore
5 to 10 years they want to ban cash 50 euro`s or more all together

You obviously have never been to Germany or Austria then? In Germany, most shops only take cash or some places accept only very limited bank cards. Most places will not take Visa or Mastercard. Germany is very much a cash society. It is not uncommon to see Germans buying for large items with cash only

Germany recently opposed the ECB getting rid of the €500 note. German speakers believe in anonymity ie that you can buy items without a papertrail as they are opposed to ways the state can spy on you. By banning cash you are basically allowing the state to see everything you do and what you buy. Germans will not allow this in the EU. Cash is very much here to stay

People should be allowed to make anonymous purchases. The state currently monitors our card purchases and it should allow us to spend as we wish without them being able to see what that is

I dont think it is reasonable to expect a tradesman to spend several hundred euro a year on a credit card machine and merchant bank fees as you want to pay with card rather than giving him cash. Bank fees for cards for retailers are massive

Muhammed_1

People should definitely resist a non-cash society.

How would the black market operate?

Not only that, but imagine the state spying and oversight of everything you do.You literally couldn't do anything involving money without the state knowing, and potentially taxing you.

crossmolinalad

Muhammed_1 wrote: »

People should definitely resist a non-cash society.

How would the black market operate?

Not only that, but imagine the state spying and oversight of everything you do.You literally couldn't do anything involving money without the state knowing, and potentially taxing you.

How would the black market operate?
Not and that is what they want
Last week in the papers Sweden wants to go cashless from somewhere next year
one of the reasons ban black money
other safety for shop owners is also one of the reasons some shopkeepers in Holland have stopped with cash payments