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The alt right - Mod Warning in OP

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    #422
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,939 ✭✭✭20Cent


    The alt right remind me of something Alvin Toffler wrote in his book future shock. Written in 1970 he predicted that in the future (like now) there would be so many sources of information available people would be confused as to what was real or not. Post truth it is being called now. Read the other day that a guy turned up at a pizza shop in Washington with a gun looking for the secret paedophile tunnels that the democrats use to send children around to abuse. This was a conspiracy theory started on 4 or 8 chan or one of those. The guy ended up firing a shot and getting arrested lucky no one was injured.
    Adam Curtis also explores this idea a bit in his documentary hypernormalisation. The world is a complex and often dark place. Why try to understand it when you can select the reality you want and just follow that?


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    #423
    frostyjacks
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,951 ✭✭✭frostyjacks


    The pizzagate story on the alt-right sites is just as believable as the experts on the MSM telling us Hilary was going to win. I place more faith in sites like dailystormer.com than regular news sites.


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    #424
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    Whatever floats your boat - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Daily_Stormer
    The Daily Stormer is an American neo-Nazi and white supremacist news and commentary website.[1][2] It is part of the alt-right movement, and calls itself "America's #1 Most-Trusted Republican News Source".[3] Its editor is Andrew Anglin, who founded it on July 4, 2013, as a faster-paced replacement for his previous website Total Fascism.


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    #425
    beans
    Registered Users Posts: 1,886 ✭✭✭beans


    frostyjacks wrote: »
    I place more faith in sites like dailystormer.com than regular news sites.

    Given Anglin's agenda, I'd take anything he publishes with a pinch of (white) salt.


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    #426
    frostyjacks
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,951 ✭✭✭frostyjacks


    Billy86 wrote: »
    Whatever floats your boat - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Daily_Stormer

    True, it's not very politically correct, but I'd argue that it's more grounded in reality than other news sites. It's important to view things from all angles if we want a truly balanced view of things.


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    #427
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    20Cent wrote: »
    The alt right remind me of something Alvin Toffler wrote in his book future shock. Written in 1970 he predicted that in the future (like now) there would be so many sources of information available people would be confused as to what was real or not. Post truth it is being called now.

    I don't think it's that people are confused. More that people are wired to accept news that confirms their pre-existing beliefs. With such a range of information sources available, it's now easier than ever to do so.

    Indeed, there's a phenomenon called the "backfire effect" where people who're presented with evidence contradicting their beliefs tend not to revise those beliefs but instead double down and hold those beliefs with even more conviction.


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    #428
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,939 ✭✭✭20Cent


    frostyjacks wrote: »
    The pizzagate story on the alt-right sites is just as believable as the experts on the MSM telling us Hilary was going to win. I place more faith in sites like dailystormer.com than regular news sites.

    Hilary won the popular vote. Was very close to being president the polls always have a margin of error of a few percent.

    The democratic party ordering children to abuse from a pizza shop and transporting them through secret tunnels came from trolls making fake news stories.


    Not equivalent at all.


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    #429
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    frostyjacks wrote: »
    True, it's not very politically correct

    So "politically correct" means "not actually fascist" now?

    No wonder these people see political correctness everywhere!


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    #430
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,803 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    So "politically correct" means "not actually fascist" now?

    No wonder these people see political correctness everywhere!

    I think describing The Daily Stormer as "not actually fascist" is being a little bit generous.


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    #431
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    I think describing The Daily Stormer as "not actually fascist" is being a little bit generous.

    Sorry, I was saying that if the openly fascist Daily Stormer is merely "not very politically correct", it is no wonder these people think everything else is Political Correctness Gone Mad.


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    #432
    midnight city
    Closed Accounts Posts: 531 ✭✭✭midnight city


    Regarding this fake news issue, do people really want to rely on the MSM owned by some very shifty billionaires for their so called 'truth'.


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    #433
    TheOven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 222 ✭✭TheOven


    midnight city wrote: »
    Regarding this fake news issue, do people really want to rely on the MSM owned by some very shifty billionaires for their so called 'truth'.

    I think a lot of people are mistaking biased news and fake news. In the US they have always had very biased news, it has been like that for as long as I remember. Say what you want and hide behind free speech when anyone questions it. Fake news is actual fake news created by people who know it isn't real and spread it to get ad revenue by it going viral.

    http://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2016/11/23/503146770/npr-finds-the-head-of-a-covert-fake-news-operation-in-the-suburbs

    Here's an article on actual fake news, not from Trump supporters and conservatives who were easily duped by fake news and trying to save face.


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    #434
    midnight city
    Closed Accounts Posts: 531 ✭✭✭midnight city


    TheOven wrote: »
    I think a lot of people are mistaking biased news and fake news. In the US they have always had very biased news, it has been like that for as long as I remember. Say what you want and hide behind free speech when anyone questions it. Fake news is actual fake news created by people who know it isn't real and spread it to get ad revenue by it going viral.

    http://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2016/11/23/503146770/npr-finds-the-head-of-a-covert-fake-news-operation-in-the-suburbs

    Here's an article on actual fake news, not from Trump supporters and conservatives who were easily duped by fake news and trying to save face.

    This 'fake news' hysteria is about delegitimising alternative media. The MSM want it all to themselves.


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    #435
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    midnight city wrote: »
    This 'fake news' hysteria is about delegitimising alternative media. The MSM want it all to themselves.

    So you're saying that reporting on outlets like Newsweek publishing fake news throughout the campaign that they themselves have openly admitted to, is a MSM conspiracy geared toward deligitimising the likes of Newsweek for publishing fake news throughout the campaign that they themselves openly admitted to?


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    #436
    midnight city
    Closed Accounts Posts: 531 ✭✭✭midnight city


    Fake news, biased news, fair and balanced news.. who gets to decide which is which.


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    #437
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,371 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    midnight city wrote: »
    Fake news, biased news, fair and balanced news.. who gets to decide which is which.

    The intelligent and the educated.

    The ignorant and the stupid swallow tweets and headlines. In other words, useful idiots.


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    #438
    midnight city
    Closed Accounts Posts: 531 ✭✭✭midnight city


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    The intelligent and the educated.

    The ignorant and the stupid swallow tweets and headlines. In other words, useful idiots.

    Who are they exactly? Give me examples of who exactly will decide what is fake news?


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    #439
    TheOven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 222 ✭✭TheOven


    midnight city wrote: »
    Fake news, biased news, fair and balanced news.. who gets to decide which is which.

    It is simple. Did the event being reported happen? If not it is fake. If yes then it is not.

    I'm not sure how much simpler I can make this for people. It isn't code, fake means not real. I don't know what you are attempting to achieve by trying to cover it up.


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    #440
    midnight city
    Closed Accounts Posts: 531 ✭✭✭midnight city


    TheOven wrote: »
    It is simple. Did the event being reported happen? If not it is fake. If yes then it is not.

    I'm not sure how much simpler I can make this for people. It isn't code, fake means not real. I don't know what you are attempting to achieve by trying to cover it up.

    Much of what is reported can't really be proven even if it did happen. How much of what is reported can really be verified. Who is going to be responsible for verification. Its not as simple as you are implying.


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    #441
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,371 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    midnight city wrote: »
    Who are they exactly? Give me examples of who exactly will decide what is fake news?

    Names and addresses? Nah. It's a secret that only the MSM knows.


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    #442
    TheOven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 222 ✭✭TheOven


    midnight city wrote: »
    Much of what is reported can't really be proven even if it did happen. How much of what is reported can really be verified. Who is going to be responsible for verification. Its not as simple as you are implying.


    Here's a news headline
    "Obama intends to sign bill brining in sharia law next week."


    Now I want you to think very carefully. Have I now become a legitimate news source?

    Says a lot about the news you watch if it's unverified.


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    #443
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    midnight city wrote: »
    Who are they exactly? Give me examples of who exactly will decide what is fake news?

    You could try fact checkers, for a start. If you don't check facts and just believe whatever you are told, you will believe that Obama literally founded ISIS back in 1999, and that Clinton has been fighting ISIS since 1965, meaning that Obama must have founded ISIS in 1965 when he was 4 years old despite creating ISIS in 1999.

    Give me examples of exactly who decides that is fake news? Because it is comprised of comments made by the right in recent months.


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    #444
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,371 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    Billy86 wrote: »
    You could try fact checkers, for a start. If you don't check facts and just believe whatever you are told, you will believe that Obama literally founded ISIS back in 1999, and that Clinton has been fighting ISIS since 1965, meaning that Obama must have founded ISIS in 1965 when he was 4 years old despite creating ISIS in 1999.

    The only logical conclusion is that Bill Clinton is Obama's father.


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    #445
    midnight city
    Closed Accounts Posts: 531 ✭✭✭midnight city


    TheOven wrote: »
    Here's a news headline
    "Obama intends to sign bill brining in sharia law next week."


    Now I want you to think very carefully. Have I now become a legitimate news source?

    Says a lot about the news you watch if it's unverified.

    There is as much if it on the likes of the huff post as there is on right leaning news sites. I get my news from the msm, from right leaning websites and from left leaning sites. I look into a particular story if i am suspicious of it.

    What i don't want to see and what i suspect is happening is the liberal elites are using the so called 'fake news' issue to shut down right leaning news sources. Facebook, twitter, google and youtube have already started.


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    #446
    TheOven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 222 ✭✭TheOven


    midnight city wrote: »
    There is as much if it on the likes of the huff post as there is on right leaning news sites. I get my news from the msm, from right leaning websites and from left leaning sites. I look into a particular story if i am suspicious of it.

    What i don't want to see and what i suspect is happening is the liberal elites are using the so called 'fake news' issue to shut down right leaning news sources. Facebook, twitter, google and youtube have already started.

    You agree that my headline is legitimate then? Or are you only concerned with conspiracy theories?


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    #447
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,371 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    midnight city wrote: »
    There is as much if it on the likes of the huff post as there is on right leaning news sites. I get my news from the msm, from right leaning websites and from left leaning sites. I look into a particular story if i am suspicious of it.

    What i don't want to see and what i suspect is happening is the liberal elites are using the so called 'fake news' issue to shut down right leaning news sources. Facebook, twitter, google and youtube have already started.

    'suspect' is such a subjective word. I suspect you're wrong. However, if they're shutting down foamy mouths spouting rabid hate, then I'm ok with that.


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    #448
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    So "fake news" is fake news?


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    #449
    TheOven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 222 ✭✭TheOven


    Jep Gambardella wrote: »
    So "fake news" is fake news?

    Depends, originally when people were coming out and saying they made up stories it was. Then when Trump supporters needed to save face due to being the people who were caught sharing the fake news they claimed fake means what they didn't like.


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    #450
    midnight city
    Closed Accounts Posts: 531 ✭✭✭midnight city


    The genie is out of the bottle now anyway. Lots of people have lost faith in the mainstream media. Interest in these smaller alternative news outlets is not going to go away. No matter how hard politicians and the likes of twitter try.


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    #451
    TheOven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 222 ✭✭TheOven


    midnight city wrote: »
    The genie is out of the bottle now anyway. Lots of people have lost faith in the mainstream media. Interest in these smaller alternative news outlets is not going to go away. No matter how hard politicians and the likes of twitter try.

    I don't know why you are struggling so much. Fake news doesn't mean non mainstream. Are you doing this on purpose?


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