The alt right - Mod Warning in OP

Tony EH

Widdershins wrote: »

The hail victory thing, He did at least admit that they need to knock some of that stuff on the head. He said there was about five people actually doing it and the interviewer insisted it was way more than five, and replayed the footage. I still couldn't see more than about five people doing it. So it could be that he was being too slow to condemn it, but doesn't like it himself?

Bollocks.

He's at the centre of whipping it up. When one shouts "Hail Victory" (Seig Heil), you know damn well what kind of meassage you are preaching and you know who and what period of history you're trying to channel.

No amount of excuses can or weasel words can hide what's going on there.

Widdershins

Brian? wrote: »

You're bending over backwards to make allowances for Spencer here. He got exactly the reaction he was hoping for when he shouted "hail victory". He toasted the right armed salutes.

Not at all. I'm trying to take into account what he said when he was held to account in the interview. It would be one sided to ignore his answers.

Widdershins

Tony EH wrote: »

Bollocks.

He's at the centre of whipping it up. When one shouts "Hail Victory" (Seig Heil), you know damn well what kind of meassage you are preaching and you know who and what period of history you're trying to channel.

No amount of excuses can or weasel words can hide what's going on there.

It comes across quite suspicious alright but he didn't say sig heil. That's you adding the translation. That's why he was more or less interrogated in an interview and admitted that needs to be knocked on the head. To be fair

It often strikes me that certain comments are bollocks but I don't type it out of politeness.

Brian?

Widdershins wrote: »

Not at all. I'm trying to take into account what he said when he was held to account in the interview. It would be one sided to ignore his answers.

It's naive to accept his answers given his behaviour

Widdershins

Brian? wrote: »

It's naive to accept his answers given his behaviour

You can take them on board without making a final judgement. I'd have to hear a lot more from him to make my mind up.

Tony EH

Widdershins wrote: »

It comes across quite suspicious alright but he didn't say sig heil. That's you adding the translation. That's why he was more or less interrogated in an interview and admitted that needs to be knocked on the head. To be fair

It often strikes me that certain comments are bollocks but I don't type it out of politeness.

He said "Hail Victory". That IS Seig Heil. Spencer knows this.

I see the meaning here and it doesn't matter how you try to excuse it and what disingenuous words you provide as an escape for Mr Spencer.

It's very clear what he means, what he's doing here and who and what he's trying to reference.

K-9

Ah here, when you are getting to the stage of defending him by saying he didn't quite say sig heil...

I'd say it is time to take step back (not to make a salute mind you!).

Widdershins

Tony EH wrote: »

He said "Hail Victory". That IS Seig Heil. Spencer knows this.

I see the meaning here and it doesn't matter how you try to excuse it and what disingenuous words you provide as an escape for Mr Spencer.

It's very clear what he means, what he's doing here and who and what he's trying to reference.

I'm not defending or excusing him, only commenting with my own view. I haven't made up my mind yet because that video is the first I've heard of him and I'd need to know a lot more to understand what he's getting at. I previously commented to say that it would be reasonable to interpret some of the things in the video as signs he is a white supremacist.

Ye are all very quick to jump on anyone who reserves full judgement. That is no way to convince people.

beans

Regardless of Spencer's intent with the 'Hail Victory' talk etc, there's a few key aspects to the Alt-Right philosophy that kind of make this moot:

- The need for a white ethno-state
- The notion that Jews are working against white interests world-wide

Whether Spencer and co are LARP-ing as Nazis or not, he's on record as supporting both of the above positions, and that really tells you what you need to know. All the roman salute stuff is fluff, it's the core beliefs that need examining.


I can't post links to the Spencer interview I'm thinking of that shows the above, since it's been removed from Soundcloud, but you get the general gist of it from this interview with a noted alt-right commentator.

From the description "...Naturally, that brings us the rather taboo subject of Jewish influence and subversion; Jazzhands notes that Jews – and, in particular, Jewish organizations – overwhelmingly oppose White interests. We conclude the show by considering the future of America and our dire need for an ethno-state."

Amazingfun

Asian porn star Tila Tequila and a couple of jewish fellas were doing those Roman Salutes in an ironic fashion all day at the NPI event. That is why Spencer laughed when being "held to account" for it. It was just another funny act and indeed part of the exuberant spillover from those in attendance. It was a nothing event, he merely raised his glass as some of the same jokers in the audience "hailed" up to him.

The only people "outraged" by this are those unfamiliar with alt-right humor.

Chips Lovell

Sounds to me like these lads could do quite well in Ireland, where you can say whatever outrageous thing you want provided that you follow it up with: "Relax, it's only a bit of banter".

Amazingfun

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

Sounds to me like these lads could do quite well in Ireland, where you can say whatever outrageous thing you want provided that you follow it up with: "Relax, it's only a bit of banter".

Well, I am sure these issues resonate with many Irish people, and will continue to as massive waves of immigration into Europe continue unabated.

As for free speech, it seems you would rather we didn't have it

Special Circumstances

Has anyone been at a wedding lately where they ask everyone to extend their right hand towards the couple?

I'm surprised somebody hasn't caused a scheisse storm online with an out of context photo yet.

K-9

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Has anyone been at a wedding lately where they ask everyone to extend their right hand towards the couple?

I'm surprised somebody hasn't caused a scheisse storm online with an out of context photo yet.

It was a video, broadcast live on one of the news channel IIRC so not edited or anything.

midnight city

Brian? wrote: »

He is completely wrong that "white identity" exists and that the system in the US is increasingly rigged against whites.

I'd disagree that "whites" exist as a homogenous group. It displays a distinctly narrow vision of history that judges everything through the lense of skin colour.

In the US white identity is being forced on people with that skin colour by the so called 'white privilege' agitators. There are also many like Spencer who are very aware of their skin colour and their heritage. But there are many others who are now being forced to look at their skin colour and ask why am i being targeted for being a white person. People like Spencer were very much on the sidelines until the left started all this white privilege nonsense.

Tony EH

Amazingfun wrote: »

The only people "outraged" by this are those unfamiliar with alt-right humor.

Bah, I've done it myself.

The difference is, when it's being encouraged by shouting the English version of Seig Heil at a political meeting, there's a context involved that eliminates any "frivolity".

midnight city

Brian? wrote: »

It's naive to accept his answers given his behaviour

Even people you don't like or normally disagree with can make valid points. You shouldn't dismiss everything someone says because they are on the opposite end of the political spectrum as you. You said you were for open borders. By that logic many people could dismiss everything else you say after reading that.

Tony EH

Widdershins wrote: »

I'm not defending or excusing him, only commenting with my own view. I haven't made up my mind yet because that video is the first I've heard of him and I'd need to know a lot more to understand what he's getting at. I previously commented to say that it would be reasonable to interpret some of the things in the video as signs he is a white supremacist.

Ye are all very quick to jump on anyone who reserves full judgement. That is no way to convince people.

Nobody is trying to convince you of anything.

However, if you have to go round the twist and try to make it out that Spencer is just having a laugh, when his words betray him, then you have to ask yourself why you'd wish to do so in the first place, regardless of any reserve of judgement.

Brian?

Amazingfun wrote: »

Asian porn star Tila Tequila and a couple of jewish fellas were doing those Roman Salutes in an ironic fashion all day at the NPI event. That is why Spencer laughed when being "held to account" for it. It was just another funny act and indeed part of the exuberant spillover from those in attendance. It was a nothing event, he merely raised his glass as some of the same jokers in the audience "hailed" up to him.

The only people "outraged" by this are those unfamiliar with alt-right humor.

Good to see Tila has taken time from convincing people the earth is flat to do something constructive with her life.

Widdershins

Tony EH wrote: »

Nobody is trying to convince you of anything.

However, if you have to go round the twist and try to make it out that Spencer is just having a laugh, when his words betray him, then you have to ask yourself why you'd wish to do so in the first place, regardless of any reserve of judgement.

If not trying to convince me, fine So why the need to jump on my comment about reserving judgement and pointing out that he admitted some of ''that stuff'' needs to be knocked on the head?
It does look like any comment that isn't outright condemning him will always be criticised as it was in my case.

I don't think there's much more to be said and don't want to derail the thread-my opinion hasn't changed regardless of what other boards users want to read into it.

Brian?

midnight city wrote: »

Even people you don't like or normally disagree with can make valid points. You shouldn't dismiss everything someone says because they are on the opposite end of the political spectrum as you. You said you were for open borders. By that logic many people could dismiss everything else you say after reading that.

Plenty of people on here make intelligent points I disagree with. Sometimes they make points I agree with despite being on the opposite end of the political spectrum. It's actually happened in the this thread.

I have heard enough of Spencer to make my mind up. He's a tidied up white supremacist. He's a wolf in German Shepard's clothing.

Amazingfun

Tony EH wrote: »

Bah, I've done it myself.

The difference is, when it's being encouraged by shouting the English version of Seig Heil at a political meeting, there's a context involved that eliminates any "frivolity".

Tony, it really doesn't. NPI and Amren confernces have long welcomed jewish speakers and attendees. David Duke was banned from Amren by Jared Taylor himself because of this very issue.
Spencer is not the Hitler you seek, I'm afraid

Tony EH

Widdershins wrote: »

If not trying to convince me, fine So why the need to jump on my comment about reserving judgement and pointing out that he admitted some of ''that stuff'' needs to be knocked on the head?
It does look like any comment that isn't outright condemning him will always be criticised as it was in my case.

I don't think there's much more to be said and don't want to derail the thread-my opinion hasn't changed regardless of what other boards users want to read into it.

Because I'm calling you out on the excuses you're trying to make for this guy. Personally, I don't care what you believe, or what judgements you wish to "reserve". But, if you're going to try an convince people that Richard Spencer is an innocent ingenue of some description, you can expect others to disagree, when Spencer's own choice of words are there for everyone to see.

Also, simply saying that "some of ''that stuff'' needs to be knocked on the head" is absolutely not good enough and is still no excuse.

Brian?

Hank Scorpio wrote: »

One of the biggest problems is the race baiting by the media. The hand's up don't shoot lie created hysteria forming groups like Black Lives Matter which are one of the biggest hate groups in the America. I'd also put a lot of it down to people Hillary Clinton, it's clear from the DNC leaks how her staffers have no respect for minorities and imo use them solely for votes which creates massive tensions, along with the constant race segregation and calling Trump supporters racist, homophobic etc.

Trump himself is clearly not innocent either as he's said many stupid things about Muslims, Mexico etc, and I'm not making excuses for him here, but the way Clinton's campaign went about it in the long term is far more damaging and conniving. People forget the images posted by her Campaign of Obama in a certain garp when she was running against him which many believe created the birther movement, Trump later also foolishly became involved with accusations.

IMO the vast majority of Trump supporters aren't bigots or racists and the same for Hillary supporters. There is small groups of extreme people on each side. What's more damaging is when all supporters of a single side are labeled as such.

You think the biggest problem is race baiting by the media? Not the very real racism that undoubtedly exists in sections of society?

Widdershins

Tony EH wrote: »

Because I'm calling you out on the excuses you're trying to make for this guy. Personally, I don't care what you believe, or what judgements you wish to "reserve". But, if you're going to try an convince people that Richard Spencer is an innocent ingenue of some description, you can expect others to disagree, when Spencer's own choice of words are there for everyone to see.

Also, simply saying that "some of ''that stuff'' needs to be knocked on the head" is absolutely not good enough and is still no excuse.

So now it's me who is trying to convince people-even though I myself am unsure what I think of him? I added my view because I believe in a bit of balance and sharing an angle that others mightn't yet have thought of-and I take on board others views for the same reason, unless they are directed at me in a critical manner.

Just allow me to comment with my own views and don't take it personally.

Keep your ''calling out'' to yourself. Whoever you think you are!

Special Circumstances

K-9 wrote: »

It was a video, broadcast live on one of the news channel IIRC so not edited or anything.

Ah yeah not defending "LARPing Nazis" as somebody called it if that is what was going on. Just wondering where the line is on these things.

I was in the Father Ted house there and somebody wanted one of the gang to stand at the window with the perfectly square piece of dirt and make some gesticulations.

Now, even in that context I would think it a very poor idea to be caught on camera.

But kicking the Bishop up the arse was fine so we had our fun and that's all that matters I suppose.

beans

Amazingfun wrote: »

NPI and Amren confernces have long welcomed jewish speakers and attendees

One of those in the NPI 'salutegate' video is Jewish.

Chips Lovell

Sometimes it's useful to check your thinking by asking yourself if you'd draw the same conclusions in different circumstances

E.g. "Look, I know there were people shouting 'death to the infidels' but it was really just over-exuberance and you're probably not getting their sense of humour. I'd like to reserve judgment on these characters until we know more about them."

Brian?

Amazingfun wrote: »

It was you who said "Hispanic identity doesn't exist". I provided actual evidence to the contrary that not only does it exist, it does so in a free, even encouraged fashion, unencumbered by the kind of lowball attacks from media, etc, that Spencer, who is trying to do the very same thing for Whites, faces.

I'm going to need you to "unpack" this post.

Hispanic identity, much like white identity, exists only as an abstract concept. I object to both.

There is a marked difference in how each is given expression though. One claims supremacy through far right and alt right groups. The other does not claim supremacy. At least not that I know of.

This is the crux of my disagreement with the alt right. They believe the "white" way of life is under threat because anti discrimination and affirmative action laws have meant that one can no longer discriminate based on colour etc. .

The alt right seeks the freedom to discriminate, as far as I can see. They feel oppressed because other cultures are gaining parity in some area. They haven't achieved parity yet mind you. There is still institutional racism rife in the US. White privilege was very real in the US until recently. But now it's gone, they're scared.

Inquitus

Hard to believe we are actually debating whether Spencer is a Neo Nazi or not. Also the term Alt Right is just a homogenised version of Far Right created by the Far Right to try and remove some of that term's negative connotations.