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The alt right - Mod Warning in OP

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    #662
    osmiumartist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 916 ✭✭✭osmiumartist


    Brian? wrote: »
    What do they mean to you?
    What does what mean to me? DNA? Amino acids? I was told there is no such thing as race. There clearly is.
    You have a new, unrelated question?


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    #663
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,371 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    osmiumartist wrote: »
    You have your races and species mixed up there.
    Of course they're humans. Nobody in the entirety of this thread has disputed that. Nice strawman attempt though.
    So we have groups of people with similar genetic traits... but no no no we can't say that means they are a race even though they can be identified as part of a a group based on their DNA.
    So basically you don't like the word race?

    How many groups of people with similar genetic traits are there?


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    #664
    osmiumartist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 916 ✭✭✭osmiumartist


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    How many groups of people with similar genetic traits are there?
    As many as you want, depending on how stringent you want to be on the genetic similarity.
    Keep trying to lead me somewhere though. Good luck with that.


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    #665
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,371 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    osmiumartist wrote: »
    As many as you want, depending on how stringent you want to be on the genetic similarity.
    Keep trying to lead me somewhere though. Good luck with that.

    I'm not trying to lead you anywhere. Just trying to inform myself. Either there are groups of people with genetic similarities and that is important or there are groups of people with genetic similarities and that is not important.

    Which is it and why?


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    #666
    Special Circumstances
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,569 ✭✭✭Special Circumstances


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    I'm not trying to lead you anywhere. Just trying to inform myself. Either there are groups of people with genetic similarities and that is important or there are groups of people with genetic similarities and that is not important.

    Which is it and why?

    Should we test everyone for sickle cell anemia, or no one, or just random tests?


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    #667
    osmiumartist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 916 ✭✭✭osmiumartist


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    I'm not trying to lead you anywhere. Just trying to inform myself. Either there are groups of people with genetic similarities and that is important or there are groups of people with genetic similarities and that is not important.

    Which is it and why?
    Is it important to be strong? To be fast? To be smart? To have skin of a certain colour? Important as in confers an advantage?


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    #668
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,286 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    osmiumartist wrote: »
    What does what mean to me? DNA? Amino acids? I was told there is no such thing as race. There clearly is.
    You have a new, unrelated question?

    What do the differences mean to you?

    Race is a loaded term I don't like. A lot of amtropologists agree.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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    #669
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,371 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    Special Circumstances wrote: »
    Should we test everyone for sickle cell anemia, or no one, or just random tests?

    I'm not medically qualified so I can't answer that question. I suppose from a humanitarian perspective, I presume such tests would be benefit early intervention. What do you think?


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    #670
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,371 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    osmiumartist wrote: »
    Is it important to be strong? To be fast? To be smart? To have skin of a certain colour? Important as in confers an advantage?

    All of those traits have benefits depending on circumstances. Are there groups of people with genetic similarities who are smart and are there groups of people with genetic similarities who are not smart?


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    #671
    osmiumartist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 916 ✭✭✭osmiumartist


    Brian? wrote: »
    What do the differences mean to you?
    The differences mean that there are separate groups of people identifiable by their genetics which can at one level be classified into races.
    Kinda like I was just explaining?
    It also means I can easily debunk people saying "there's no such thing as race" and just dumping a link they either haven't read or haven't understood.


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    #672
    osmiumartist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 916 ✭✭✭osmiumartist


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    All of those traits have benefits depending on circumstances. Are there groups of people with groups of people with genetic similarities who are smart and are there groups of people with genetic similarities who are not smart?
    No, after you sir. I'm not playing Mastermind here Magnus.
    Are there groups of people with common genetic traits that makes them different in any way from other groups of people with common genetic traits?
    Let's see if you accept the answer before you try rushing on to your next failed attempt at a loaded question.


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    #673
    AnGaelach
    Registered Users Posts: 1,533 ✭✭✭AnGaelach


    Brian? wrote: »
    What do the differences mean to you?

    Race is a loaded term I don't like. A lot of amtropologists agree.

    Is there a lot of those knocking around? I've never heard of them before:(


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    #674
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,371 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    osmiumartist wrote: »
    No, after you sir. I'm not playing Mastermind here Magnus.
    Are there groups of people with common genetic traits that makes them different in any way from other groups of people with common genetic traits?
    Let's see if you accept the answer before you try rushing on to your next failed attempt at a loaded question.

    I think people differ greatly and that can be due to genetic inheritance. I don't usually group people together other than by nationality though. But I am interested in the concept of groups of people with common genetic inheritance and how those groups might be defined. Can you give an example of what you mean?


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    #675
    osmiumartist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 916 ✭✭✭osmiumartist


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    I think people differ greatly and that can be due to genetic inheritance. I don't usually group people together other than by nationality though. But I am interested in the concept of groups of people with common genetic inheritance and how those groups might be defined. Can you give an example of what you mean?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jews#By_ethnicity
    https://www.wired.com/2015/03/iceland-worlds-greatest-genetic-laboratory/
    Relatively homogenous groups of people sharing genetic determinants.


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    #676
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,726 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    This thread is beginning to veer off topic. Keep discussion to the alt-right please.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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    #677
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,726 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Post deleted. Back on topic.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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    #678
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,371 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    osmiumartist wrote: »
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jews#By_ethnicity
    https://www.wired.com/2015/03/iceland-worlds-greatest-genetic-laboratory/
    Relatively homogenous groups of people sharing genetic determinants.

    I'm aware that a mod is concerned that this discussion might be veering off track so I'll acknowledge that both of those groups of people have fairly distinct common genetic inheritance.

    In terms of how 'race' is perceived, for example by the alt-right, do you think your examples have any relevance? If so, how?


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    #679
    Sand
    Registered Users Posts: 12,580 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    I think in the immediate aftermath of the Trump win, a commentator stated that Trumps opponents did not take him seriously, but took everything he said literally. On the other hands Trumps supporters took him seriously, but did not take what he said literally. With the alt-right, people might be making the mistake of taking them seriously and literally. They are basically a loose coalition of internet trolls who revel in the Twitter wars with SJWs. I actually believe the nazi salutes thing was deliberately done to troll their opponents.

    The Guardian today drew links between the alt-right of 2016 and the Gamergate drama of 2014. Oh you didn't hear? There was a huge Twitter war between SJWs and their opponents. Lets take a moment to remember the fallen. Tales of that endless war still echo...well, actually I would imagine less than 1% of people who voted in the US election even heard of Gamergate. It really wasn't that big a deal for people who don't have a Twitter account and don't engage in US identity politics on Twitter.

    I think the magnification of the alt-right into this massive, sprawling conspiracy that's pulling the strings and winning US elections is just because its easier for people with a Twitter account and an interest in identity politics to accept that than acknowledge Trumps voters, when they have literally nothing to say to one another. The vast majority of American voters probably don't have a Twitter account. That's incomprehensible so its easier to work with the idea that the so called alt-right is behind it all rather than just a coincidence - there have always been assholes.


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    #680
    Special Circumstances
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,569 ✭✭✭Special Circumstances


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    Post deleted. Back on topic.

    I'll assume these were my posts. Internet a bit dodge here. Took a while to get them posted. Probably missed the directive not to talk about racism in the alt-right thread.

    So...



    ....





    ....

    What DO we talk about here?


  • Options
    #681
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,726 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Special Circumstances wrote: »
    I'll assume these were my posts. Internet a bit dodge here. Took a while to get them posted. Probably missed the directive not to talk about racism in the alt-right thread.

    Mod: I assumed that. Talking about racism is fine. Differences between different races of people is going off-topic. If you have more questions, please use the PM function from here on.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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    #682
    johnp001
    Registered Users Posts: 658 ✭✭✭johnp001


    A video from today talking about the alt-right movement with reference to modern America and Donald Trump and also in a historical context.
    Newsbud wrote:
    Donald Trump and Fascism in America
    Published on 12 Dec 2016
    On this episode of The Geopolitical Report, we look at Donald Trump and the alt-right movement and the attempt by the establishment to portray them as dangerous fascists. Behind the sensationalistic and misleading headlines designed to frighten the American people and widen the political divide, there is another story: how the United States has consistently supported, enabled, and coddled real fascists in Europe under Operation Gladio and backing fascist dictators in Latin America. We also examine the fascist and authoritarian character of the corporate oligarchy.


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    #683
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,286 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    johnp001 wrote: »
    A video from today talking about the alt-right movement with reference to modern America and Donald Trump and also in a historical context.


    If you accuse Trump of being fascist, It makes you fascist?

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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    #684
    legocrazy505
    Closed Accounts Posts: 691 ✭✭✭legocrazy505


    johnp001 wrote: »
    A video from today talking about the alt-right movement with reference to modern America and Donald Trump and also in a historical context.


    Again the generalisations are amazing. "the left has embraced", "progressives believe a violent response is justified".

    Until the posts here actually stop generalising is there any point trying to debate? Generalising in politics just makes you look stupid honestly.

    For a channel that says "Where media integrity matters", it sure does like to paint with broad brushes. These people are doing exactly what they excuse the "biased media" of, claiming an entire group is doing x, believes x and creating this stereotype to widen the political divide.

    Also "Behind the sensationalistic and misleading headlines designed to frighten the American people and widen the political divide, there is another story", yeah I'm pretty sure calling people doing Nazi salutes and use Nazi-like language Nazis is very misleading isn't it?


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    #685
    Sand
    Registered Users Posts: 12,580 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    Brian? wrote: »
    If you accuse Trump of being fascist, It makes you fascist?

    I think its the street violence, the identification of an 'other' who is not entitled to the rights of citizenship and can and should be justifiably attacked violently and even killed. Its probably the only decent point made in the whole video.

    A small vanguard of violent activists of course, but if that weirdo had managed to kill Trump lets not pretend there would not have been an orgy of celebration on social media to rival the gloating that greeted Thatchers death.


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    #686
    legocrazy505
    Closed Accounts Posts: 691 ✭✭✭legocrazy505


    Sand wrote: »
    I think its the street violence, the identification of an 'other' who is not entitled to the rights of citizenship and can and should be justifiably attacked violently and even killed. Its probably the only decent point made in the whole video.

    A small vanguard of violent activists of course, but if that weirdo had managed to kill Trump lets not pretend there would not have been an orgy of celebration on social media to rival the gloating that greeted Thatchers death.

    Let's be honest though parts of the internet would have been equally happy if Hillary was killed too and it would be apparent on social media and places like Reddit's "bastion of free speech" /r/The_Donald. Both Trump and Hillary attracted their fair share of violent opposition. Gun ho alt-right people who claimed there would be a rebellion if Hillary was elected under the "rigged" system and the far left who believe the only way to counter the alt-right is to be more violent and more ridiculous than them.

    Maybe the 2nd amendment people can do something about it?


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    #687
    osmiumartist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 916 ✭✭✭osmiumartist


    Inquitus wrote: »
    Agreed, he gets his arse handed to him by this non sympathetic interviewer a couple of weeks ago trotting out the same veiled racist BS.
    Presenter shouts a lot, never letting him answer anything, switching the goalposts, strawmanning, you name it. May as well just face the camera and deliver his speech and not pretend it's an interview.
    Then they both makes total jackasses of themselves insisting ancient Egyptians were black or white. They were neither.
    I'm really embarrassed for that buffoon who appears too thick to even put a Nazi in his place.

    "You and your people"... he couldn't even manage not to get a racist dig in himself the twat.


  • Options
    #688
    Sand
    Registered Users Posts: 12,580 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    legocrazy505 wrote: »
    Let's be honest though parts of the internet would have been equally happy if Hillary was killed too and it would be apparent on social media and places like Reddit's "bastion of free speech" /r/The_Donald. Both Trump and Hillary attracted their fair share of violent opposition. Gun ho alt-right people who claimed there would be a rebellion if Hillary was elected under the "rigged" system and the far left who believe the only way to counter the alt-right is to be more violent and more ridiculous than them.

    Maybe the 2nd amendment people can do something about it?

    I don't disagree, but the video drew similarities between anti-Trump activists and fascist street violence and I think its a valid comparison. The 'anti-fascists' do look like, talk like and act like fascists.

    In my opinion, the alt-right are just a mirror of the SJWs. They engage in their little culture wars on social media. They both enjoy trolling each other: an alt-right gathering trolls SJWs by throwing up nazi salutes, SJWs troll the alt-right by posting pictures themselves from cups labelled male tears. The battle is critically important to them, they are definitely not interested in speaking to each other and the whole thing is not very important to anyone else.

    I mean - this Spencer chap. He's clearly a veteran troll. He tries really hard to seem reasonable but he just cannot help himself getting in digs and kicks that will alienate the vast, vast majority of voters. In the same way an unemployed white male in a rustbelt town has absolutely no interest in trendy lefty identity politics, Spencer's dubious story time about racial identity politics isnt going to be a vote winner either.


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    #689
    Amazingfun
    Registered Users Posts: 3,161 ✭✭✭Amazingfun


    I mean - this Spencer chap. He's clearly a veteran troll. He tries really hard to seem reasonable but he just cannot help himself getting in digs and kicks that will alienate the vast, vast majority of voters. In the same way an unemployed white male in a rustbelt town has absolutely no interest in trendy lefty identity politics, Spencer's dubious story time about racial identity politics isnt going to be a vote winner either.


    I can't shake the feeling this will be a fun post to reflect on in years to come, much like the numerous "Trump is a clown, Trump will never win" material is now ;-)


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    #690
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    osmiumartist wrote: »
    No, after you sir. I'm not playing Mastermind here Magnus.
    Are there groups of people with common genetic traits that makes them different in any way from other groups of people with common genetic traits?
    Let's see if you accept the answer before you try rushing on to your next failed attempt at a loaded question.

    Mod:
    Can you answer questions please without resorting to digs about Mastermind etc. It doesn't look clever at all.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #691
    osmiumartist
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 916 ✭✭✭osmiumartist


    legocrazy505 wrote: »
    Until the posts here actually stop generalising is there any point trying to debate? Generalising in politics just makes you look stupid honestly.
    Bit of a generalisation that, isn't it?


This discussion has been closed.
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