The alt right - Mod Warning in OP

Brian?

Amazingfun wrote: »

I know your "brand" is cutsey cluelessness, but I'll play:
it's of note since they are agitating against pro-White advocates, or those they perceive as such. This is noteworthy, as I would have imagined they considered themselves "white".
Apparently not!

Jews were agitating against pro white activists? You don't even see the problem with this statement?

I doubt any Jew considers themselves "white".

Brian?

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

When did white supremacists become "Pro-White activists?"

You didn't get the memo? Lauding your own race above all others as the white nationalists is no longer supremacist, it's egalitarian.

ancapailldorcha

midnight city wrote: »

You think people can't advocate for white interests without being supremacist? Have you been on Facebook lately, on Twitter, read the papers, watched TV, been on American campuses, listened to feminists? They are pretty clear 'whiteness' is a thing. A problem even. White people better start looking out for their interests because there are people out there looking to bring them down a peg or 2 simply for being white.

White interests? What exactly would these be? White people are the most privileged group in society. You couldn't even cite examples of whites being oppressed so you had to allude to nonsense on Twitter. Are you this thin skinned?

Billy86

Amazingfun wrote: »

I know your "brand" is cutsey cluelessness, but I'll play:
it's of note since they are agitating against pro-White advocates, or those they perceive as such. This is noteworthy, as I would have imagined they considered themselves "white".
Apparently not!

I literally just asked you why it is important that they are Jewish, and you failed to answer it. If you were referring to them being white, you would have said it was telling that they were white - not that they were Jewish, especially as many people (a number of Jews themselves included) consider a lot of Jews to be a race of their own. I'd ask you again, but we both know you're not going to answer.

Seriously, you could not be any more transparent, trying to hint that neo-Nazi's like Richard Spencer wouldn't have anything against Jewish people. From one of Spencer's buddies on the matter in the last few days: "This is the Jews for you, people. They are a vicious, evil race of hate-filled psychopaths."

And again: "Tell them you are sickened by their Jew agenda to attack and harm the mother of someone whom they disagree with."

I mean seriously, what ever in the world could this man and his followers ever have against the Jewish people?

Can't wait to hear how you think the guy on the plane thought Ivanka Trump is a white supremacist. Because that's what you're after saying.

Amazingfun

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

When did white supremacists become "Pro-White activists?"

"White supremacist"? Spencer already said he isn't one, at the very beginning of this interview posted a while back now.

Billy86

Amazingfun wrote: »

"White supremacist"? Spencer already said he isn't one, at the very beginning of this interview posted a while back now.

I guess all the Nazi salutes and allusions, and his playing up to them in the video above never happened then.

Still waiting to hear how Ivanka Trump was seem as a white supremacist / "pro-white advocate" by the guy on the plane......

Amazingfun

Billy86 wrote: »

I literally just asked you why it is important that they are Jewish, and you failed to answer it. If you were referring to them being white, you would have said it was telling that they were white - not that they were Jewish, especially as many people (a number of Jews themselves included) consider a lot of Jews to be a race of their own. I'd ask you again, but we both know you're not going to answer.

Seriously, you could not be any more transparent, trying to hint that neo-Nazi's like Richard Spencer wouldn't have anything against Jewish people. From one of Spencer's buddies on the matter in the last few days: "This is the Jews for you, people. They are a vicious, evil race of hate-filled psychopaths."

And again: "Tell them you are sickened by their Jew agenda to attack and harm the mother of someone whom they disagree with."

I mean seriously, what ever in the world could this man and his followers ever have against the Jewish people?

Can't wait to hear how you think the guy on the plane thought Ivanka Trump is a white supremacist. Because that's what you're after saying.

:rolleyes: I was the one who posted The Atlantic's 11 documentary, weeks ago now. I also gave the context around the #heilgate controversy that emerged from it. Why do you enjoy merry-go-rounds so?

Re: your jewish Q:
I did answer your question, you didn't like it, is all. So what?

And please, Trump is called a "white supremacist/KKK/other hysterical label" on a regular basis, despite him not being anything near that at all, lol.

midnight city

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

White interests? What exactly would these be? White people are the most privileged group in society. You couldn't even cite examples of whites being oppressed so you had to allude to nonsense on Twitter. Are you this thin skinned?

Why am I not surprised Twitter was the example you choose to highlight. You missed university campuses, the place where tomorrows leaders come from. They are teaching courses like 'the problem with whiteness' in some universities. So called 'white privilege' is everywhere on campus. If you don't see a rise in antiwhite sentiment particularly in America then you are willfully blind.

Waste of time this these discussions anyway, nobody ever changes their position.

Amazingfun

Billy86 wrote: »

I guess all the Nazi salutes and allusions, and his playing up to them in the video above never happened then.

zzzzz, already been covered ad nauseam. It was an asian porn star, Tila Tequila, and two jewish guys, who started that stuff, they were doing it all through the weekend, ironically obviously. It was the end of a high energy conference and was, as Spencer said, a spillover of exuberance when others joined in.

ancapailldorcha

midnight city wrote: »

Why am I not surprised Twitter was the example you choose to highlight. You missed university campuses, the place where tomorrows leaders come from. They are teaching courses like 'the problem with whiteness' in some universities. So called 'white privilege' is everywhere on campus. If you don't see a rise in antiwhite sentiment particularly in America then you are willfully blind.

Waste of time this these discussions anyway, nobody ever changes their position.

So... a few carefully cherrypicked examples and that's it. Far from endemic.

Billy86

Amazingfun wrote: »

:rolleyes: I was the one who posted The Atlantic's 11 documentary, weeks ago now. I also gave the context around the #heilgate controversy that emerged from it. Why do you enjoy merry-go-rounds so?

So you're not willing to even attempt answering it. Prediactable.

Re: your jewish Q:
I did answer your question, you didn't like it, is all. So what?

Again, you're unable to answer. Just because you say all Jewish people are white does not make it so. Jewish people come in all colours, and the ethnically traditional Jew is seen by many (including many of their own) as a different race.

I can tell you the sky is green, but guess what? It doesn't make it so.

And please, Trump is called a "white supremacist/KKK/other hysterical label" on a regular basis, despite him not being anything near that at all, lol.

And now you're trying to say Ivanka Trump is a man. Much like claiming Jewish = white or sky = green, this is not true. It's that simple. You said "Also, it's of note that both incidents (plane/Whitefish) involve hostile Jews" then incoherently tried to claim that by Jewish you meant white as they were attacking "pro white advocates" as you like to call them. This incident involved Ivanka Trump - not Donald. So where is he having a go at her for being a "pro white advocate" and how is she one of them?

Amazingfun wrote: »

zzzzz, already been covered ad nauseam. It was an asian porn star, Tila Tequila, and two jewish guys, who started that stuff, they were doing it all through the weekend, ironically obviously. It was the end of a high energy conference and was, as Spencer said, a spillover of exuberance when others joined in.

Yeah, when I get excited about something I just break right into the Nazi salutes too... sure who wouldn't?

Just like these guys...


...and these guys...


...and these guys...


...all while Spencer happily plays up to it shouting 'Hail Trump' and making old Nazi-friendly references about the media.

You're not fooling anyone here, not even yourself I would imagine.

AnGaelach

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

White interests? What exactly would these be? White people are the most privileged group in society. You couldn't even cite examples of whites being oppressed so you had to allude to nonsense on Twitter. Are you this thin skinned?

Privilege:
a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group.

What can I do that a black or Asian person can't, exactly?

oscarBravo

AnGaelach wrote: »

What can I do that a black or Asian person can't, exactly?

Live your life without racism being a daily concern?

AnGaelach

oscarBravo wrote: »

Live your life without racism being a daily concern?

Ah would you go away, I'm a Dub who spent half of his life living in the countryside. These fúckers despise me.

Seriously though, racism is hardly an issue here. I don't know of anyone here walking around trying to lynch Asians, do you?

oscarBravo

AnGaelach wrote: »

Ah would you go away, I'm a Dub who spent half of his life living in the countryside. These fúckers despise me.

Well, yeah, that's not racism, that's basic logic.

Seriously though, racism is hardly an issue here. I don't know of anyone here walking around trying to lynch Asians, do you?

...and there speaks the voice of privilege. "I'm unaware of racism, therefore racism isn't a problem."

oscarBravo

I don't know if this was posted before, but I found it an interesting read.

Prominent critics of the Trump administration need to learn from Gamergate. They need to be prepared for abuse, for falsified concerns, invented grassroots campaigns designed specifically to break, belittle, or disgrace. Words and concepts will be twisted, repackaged and shared across forums, stripping them of meaning. Gamergate painted critics as censors, the far-right movement claims critics are the real racists.

Perhaps the true lesson of Gamergate was that the media is culturally unequipped to deal with the forces actively driving these online movements. The situation was horrifying enough two years ago, it is many times more dangerous now.

Brian?

Amazingfun wrote: »

"White supremacist"? Spencer already said he isn't one, at the very beginning of this interview posted a while back now.

Oh he said he isn't a white supremacist. I can't believe I was so wrong. If he said he wasn't one I shouldn't have accused him of being one, no matter how many times he's recorded speaking about the superiority of the "white" race.

AnGaelach

oscarBravo wrote: »

...and there speaks the voice of privilege. "I'm unaware of racism, therefore racism isn't a problem."

It's illegal to discriminate based on race (either in employment or in accessing a good/service), and racist incidences are already covered by the Courts and legislation. There's no specific law pertaining to race-related crimes, but they generally fall under other laws and the judge can decide whether or not racist intent was an aggravating offence.

What exactly do you consider racist in Ireland, and how often do you think it would occur?

Amazingfun

Brian? wrote: »

Oh he said he isn't a white supremacist. I can't believe I was so wrong. If he said he wasn't one I shouldn't have accused him of being one, no matter how many times he's recorded speaking about the superiority of the "white" race.

He talks about provable achievements. Your snark doesn't change that, and is why you can never do anything but sneer. He isn't a supremacist, he is just an advocate for his people. And good for him for doing it.

PS: Wishing you all a Merry Christmas, despite our clear political differences.

oscarBravo

AnGaelach wrote: »

It's illegal to discriminate based on race (either in employment or in accessing a good/service), and racist incidences are already covered by the Courts and legislation. There's no specific law pertaining to race-related crimes, but they generally fall under other laws and the judge can decide whether or not racist intent was an aggravating offence.

That's your argument? There are laws against racism, therefore racism isn't a problem?

I guess, by that rationale, domestic violence against women isn't a problem, despite there being over sixteen thousand reported instances of it last year. But hey: it's illegal, so that's fine, we can stop worrying about it now.

You asked for an example of privilege; I gave you one. In turn, if you had set out to carefully construct a response that perfectly exemplified privilege for ironic purposes, you couldn't have done a better job.

If you want another definition of privilege to be getting on with, how about: the ability to pointedly - almost deliberately - ignore (or even deny) problems other people face because they don't match your personal lived experience.

oscarBravo

Amazingfun wrote: »

Wishing you all a Merry Christmas, despite our clear political differences.

Same to you, and everyone else I've agreed or disagreed with on here.

midnight city

Amazingfun wrote: »

He talks about provable achievements. Your snark doesn't change that, and is why you can never do anything but sneer. He isn't a supremacist, he is just an advocate for his people. And good for him for doing it.

He very much is a supremacist, he generally tries to hide it as he understands politically its not going to advance his cause. But the mask slips sometimes. He believes in ethnic supremacy within the white race. If you listen to him it's Germanic and Nordic people he really believes in. He has taken a political position where he claims to advocate for all European people. If he stuck to that and left out the talk of colonisers and using nazi terms he may attract more people.

PopePalpatine

midnight city wrote: »

He very much is a supremacist, he generally tries to hide it as he understands politically its not going to advance his cause. But the mask slips sometimes. He believes in ethnic supremacy within the white race. If you listen to him it's Germanic and Nordic people he really believes in. He has taken a political position where he claims to advocate for all European people. If he stuck to that and left out the talk of colonisers and using nazi terms he may attract more people.

I guess I was right to assume that the Irish wouldn't get to the top of the racial hierarchy in an alt-right state. :rolleyes:

midnight city

PopePalpatine wrote: »

I guess I was right to assume that the Irish wouldn't get to the top of the racial hierarchy in an alt-right state. :rolleyes:

That is fairly typical of neo nazi groups and supremacist groups. They are a cess pit of racial purity disputes. Spencer would like to try and move outside that politically but I think he will struggle.

However, there are many on the right who simply believe in a future for white people and who want to maintain Europe and north American as majority white. They aren't against sensible immigration. And they aren't raging supremacists either. There is a difference but many on the left refuse to see it.

Brian?

Amazingfun wrote: »

He talks about provable achievements. Your snark doesn't change that, and is why you can never do anything but sneer. He isn't a supremacist, he is just an advocate for his people. And good for him for doing it.

I sneer at his claim of not being a white supremacist while talking about the supremacy of the white race. It's clearly ridiculous. It deserves to be sneered at its so blindingly stupid.

Genuine question: Who are "his people"

PS: Wishing you all a Merry Christmas, despite our clear political differences.

Many happy returns.

AnGaelach

oscarBravo wrote: »

That's your argument? There are laws against racism, therefore racism isn't a problem?

How regular is racism in Ireland?

And yes, laws being enacted against racism are dealing with the issue of racism. What more do you want, an inordinate expenditure of resources?

oscarBravo wrote: »

I guess, by that rationale, domestic violence against women isn't a problem, despite there being over sixteen thousand reported instances of it last year. But hey: it's illegal, so that's fine, we can stop worrying about it now.

And how many of those cases were unresolved? There's 1.84 million women in the country. That's what, .8%? I wouldn't call it a big problem no. Especially when the Courts are dealing with those who do abuse women, it's not like they're going free.

oscarBravo wrote: »

You asked for an example of privilege; I gave you one. In turn, if you had set out to carefully construct a response that perfectly exemplified privilege for ironic purposes, you couldn't have done a better job.

You didn't give any such example, you touted out a belief that racism exists, without offering any sort of proof or facts to back this up.

oscarBravo

AnGaelach wrote: »

...you touted out a belief that racism exists, without offering any sort of proof or facts to back this up.

If you don't believe racism exists, there's really nothing left to talk about.

AnGaelach

oscarBravo wrote: »

If you don't believe racism exists, there's really nothing left to talk about.

Of course it exists. The fact is that you're making it out to be a tremendous issue, that it actively impedes on the life of people. That they encounter it regularly enough for it to impact on them, so my lack of encounters with it (I've met some rather hostile Englishmen abroad who didn't take a liking to the Irish before) gives me some kind of special advantage.

There is absolutely no proof that racism impedes on the life of people here, and until you prove that it does, I'll continue to disregard your claims that it does.

oscarBravo

AnGaelach wrote: »

...you touted out a belief that racism exists, without offering any sort of proof or facts to back this up.

AnGaelach wrote: »

Of course it exists.

Make up your mind.

The fact is that you're making it out to be a tremendous issue, that it actively impedes on the life of people.

Not the lives of white people, no.

Have you ever had a conversation with a black person about racism in Ireland?

AnGaelach

oscarBravo wrote: »

Make up your mind. Not the lives of white people, no.

Racism exists. Racism doesn't exist as any kind of a major factor in Ireland. I've already cleared up what I was discussing, so instead of being a smart ass, perhaps you could provide some sort of proof?

oscarBravo wrote: »

Have you ever had a conversation with a black person about racism in Ireland?

Of course not, racism isn't the first topic that comes to mind when I see a black person. When I see a black person, I see a black person, not a victim of oppression. Don't be so condescending.