The alt right - Mod Warning in OP

Sweetemotion

B_Wayne wrote: »

Spain and Russia don't have similar cultures, you seem to think skin tone and religion dictates cultures being the same. I don't think it's a problem if cultures are different but you have a very basic idea on how cultures are similar. Eg Russia only in recent modern history ceased to be the Soviet Union and currently veer more in the direction of an autocracy, that's a significant cultural difference between Spain and Russia.

However regardless of the fact that cultures can be significantly different, I've never really had a problem with cultural differences. I've worked with people from tonnes of cultures and a fair few are good friends.

The obsession with race in the alt right is white supremacy rebranded, pure and simple. It reminds me of when creationists started discussing 'intelligent design' to look more legitimate. Are you also concerned about a race war? Cause, yeah that comes from white supremacy.... You have an assumption that you simply can't coexist with other races, have you ever considered it might be your problem?

It is not white supremacy, It is just fuk off leave me alone and stop blaming me on my skin colour.

Sweetemotion

For Fuk sake we even have a mod putting white in quotation marks, it's beyond stupidity...

B_Wayne

Sweetemotion wrote: »

It is not white supremacy, It is just fuk off leave me alone and stop blaming me on my skin colour.

Nope, it is white supremacy when the ideals of white supremacists are basically matched up under this new term. Why do alt right groups care about 'miscegenation' for example? That seems particularly like something white supremacists would care about. You're not hard done by because you're white.

If you want all the other cultures to go away as it's ruining your oh so perfect culture, that implies supremacy. There's nothing that I have encountered in this thread that indicates the obsession with skin colour isn't related to white supremacy,... Your argument is "go away as you have a different skin colour to me", that's awful to see that we have learnt nothing from history.

Sweetemotion wrote: »

For Fuk sake we even have a mod putting white in quotation marks, it's beyond stupidity...

I agree, an obsession with being white is beyond stupid. Claiming it isn't white supremacy is beyond stupid.

Sweetemotion

B_Wayne wrote: »

Nope, it is white supremacy when the ideals of white supremacists are basically matched up under this new term. Why do alt right groups care about 'miscegenation' for example? That seems particularly like something white supremacists would care about. You're not hard done by because you're white.

If you want all the other cultures to go away as it's ruining your oh so perfect culture, that implies supremacy. There's nothing that I have encountered in this thread that indicates the obsession with skin colour isn't related to white supremacy,... Your argument is "go away as you have a different skin colour to me", that's awful to see that we have learnt nothing from history.



I agree, an obsession with being white is beyond stupid. Claiming it isn't white supremacy is beyond stupid.

You judge people by their skin colour not me.

Is it me who is racist, or you?

B_Wayne

Sweetemotion wrote: »

You judge people by their skin colour not me.

Is it me. Who is racist or you?

Can you clarify, do you a problem with miscegenation as the 'NPI' do for example? I'm judging because of white supremacist views rather than because someone is white. It's weird how there's rarely a straight answer from those arguing these viewpoints....

Sweetemotion

B_Wayne wrote: »

Can you clarify, do you a problem with miscegenation as the 'NPI' do for example? I'm judging because of white supremacist views rather than because someone is white. It's weird how there's rarely a straight answer from those arguing these viewpoints....

There is all the clarification you need...

Brian?

midnight city wrote: »

You keep missing the point that it doesn't need to. A strict definition may appeal to the extreme neo nazi types but the alt right it isn't so important. A workable understanding of whiteness is enough. Nobody is going to be mailing out DNA kits from Alt Right HQ..

And that "workable understanding" is?

midnight city

Brian? wrote: »

And that "workable understanding" is?

Are you nodin? Your style is identical to his.

Brian?

Sweetemotion wrote: »

For Fuk sake we even have a mod putting white in quotation marks, it's beyond stupidity...

I'm not a mod of this forum, so that's completely irrelevant.

I put it in quotation marks because it's undefined.

Brian?

midnight city wrote: »

Are you nodin? Your style is identical to his.

No. Are you going answer any question?

Billy86

It does tend to be an issue with the alt right that they love defining themselves by what they are against, but do not seem to know (or do not want others to know) what they actually stand for.

Sweetemotion

Billy86 wrote: »

It does tend to be an issue with the alt right that they love defining themselves by what they are against, but do not seem to know (or do not want others to know) what they actually stand for.

What exactly is the alt right?

Billy86

Sweetemotion wrote: »

You judge people by their skin colour not me.

Is it me who is racist, or you?

As per Wikipedia: "The alt-right, or alternative right, is a loose group of people with far-right ideologies who reject mainstream conservatism in the United States. White supremacist Richard Spencer coined the term in 2010 to define a movement centered on white nationalism, and has been accused of doing so to whitewash the negative American connotations against overt racism, white supremacy, and neo-Nazism."

Now of course some on the alt right might dispute this (the white supremacy bit), but without letting us know what they actually stand for it's not really of much use.




Also since you must have missed my response to your last post...

Funny you mention Spain and Russia both being primarily Christian, Zidane's parents are both Algerian, and just like them he is a Muslim... but that's ok, he's got a pale pigment. I'm guessing he wouldn't pass that 'sun tan' test of yours though?

By the way, it's odd that you consider Spain and Russia to have very similar cultures to Zambia, Zimbabwe and Uganda - also predominantly Christian countries. Do they pass the 'white culture' test too then?

So what about Thierry Henry, does he qualify? Sure he doesn't "look" white, but was born in France and his parents are from Martinique and Guadelope, both at least 80% Christian countries. They share the same culture as France, Spain, Russia etc if you are consistent in your logic.

Sweetemotion

Brian? wrote: »

I'm not a mod of this forum, so that's completely irrelevant.

I put it in quotation marks because it's undefined.

It's not undefined, it comes from the word Caucasian meaning white skinned of European origin.

Sweetemotion

Billy86 wrote: »

As per Wikipedia: "The alt-right, or alternative right, is a loose group of people with far-right ideologies who reject mainstream conservatism in the United States. White supremacist Richard Spencer coined the term in 2010 to define a movement centered on white nationalism, and has been accused of doing so to whitewash the negative American connotations against overt racism, white supremacy, and neo-Nazism."




Also since you must have missed my response to your last post...

Funny you mention Spain and Russia both being primarily Christian, Zidane's parents are both Algerian, and just like them he is a Muslim... but that's ok, he's got a pale pigment. I'm guessing he wouldn't pass that 'sun tan' test of yours though?

By the way, it's odd that you consider Spain and Russia to have very similar cultures to Zambia, Zimbabwe and Uganda - also predominantly Christian countries. Do they pass the 'white culture' test too then?

So what about Thierry Henry, does he qualify? Sure he doesn't "look" white, but was born in France and his parents are from Martinique and Guadelope, both at least 80% Christian countries. They share the same culture as France, Spain, Russia etc if you are consistent in your logic.

Bla,bla bla. rinse and repeat.

midnight city

Brian? wrote: »

No. Are you going answer any question?

I have answered questions.

Btw what percentage of your posts are questions. Try and give some of your thoughts on issues and stop with the constant questioning. Its tedious.

Sweetemotion

I judge not by culture, race or religion but on the individual.

Happy New Year Brian?, B_Wayne and Billy86.

Billy86

Sweetemotion wrote: »

Bla,bla bla. rinse and repeat.

All that you're doing here is proving the point being made.

You can't define what it is that you stand for. On one hand, you're calling Russia and Spain the same culture because they're both Christian, and yet so are Uganda, Zambia, Martinique and Guadelope. You say you can't claim to be Chinese because they got a tan, yet you consider Zinedine Zidane white despite him being a Muslim Arab with both parents from Algeria.

You're absolutely all over the place and either do not know, or for whatever reason do not want other people to know, what it is that you're standing for.

Sweetemotion

Billy86 wrote: »

All that you're doing here is proving the point being made.

You can't define what it is that you stand for. On one hand, you're calling Russia and Spain the same culture because they're both Christian, and yet so are Uganda, Zambia, Martinique and Guadelope. You say you can't claim to be Chinese because they got a tan, yet you consider Zinedine Zidane white despite him being a Muslim Arab with both parents from Algeria.

You're absolutely all over the place and either do not know, or for whatever reason do not want other people to know, what it is that you're standing for.

Again with the Zinedine Zidane.

Bla, bla, bla rinse and repeat.

midnight city

Billy86 wrote: »

You're absolutely all over the place and either do not know, or for whatever reason do not want other people to know, what it is that you're standing for.

Its very easy to just question people on their thoughts without really laying out you own to scrutiny.

One of the posters here is a big open borders advocate. It would be interesting to hear someone trying to sell that idea. It all ties in with an alt right discussion as it relates to immigration.

Billy86

midnight city wrote: »

Its very easy to just question people on their thoughts without really laying out you own to scrutiny.

One of the posters here is a big open borders advocate. It would be interesting to hear someone trying to sell that idea. It all ties in with an alt right discussion as it relates to immigration.

That's my point, it's been a central ethos of many on the alt right to avoid putting their own views out there even if it means resorting to the message board equivalent of making farting noises from their mouths, likely because they are unable to articulate beyond parroting the talking point of the day. That whole cycle has died down a good deal in the 6 weeks or so, leading to a lot of infighting amongst the more public figures in the alt right, and a lot more posts like this on message boards from those left without a sense of direction:

Sweetemotion wrote: »

Again with the Zinedine Zidane.

Bla, bla, bla rinse and repeat.

Either that that or the above poster can correct me, and let me know that they do consider Uganda, Zambia, etc to have the same culture as Spain, France, Russia or Ireland, by their own logic of course.

Sweetemotion

Billy86 wrote: »

without a sense of direction:

Without a sense of direction?

My direction is providing for my partner our daughter and my dog.

And I love all three and all three love me.

Billy86

Sweetemotion wrote: »

Without a sense of direction?

My direction is providing for my partner our daughter and my dog.

And I love all three and all three love me.

I was referring to your posts that you refuse to answer. Because you're all over the place on them. You consider Arabs to be white and Uganda to be culturally similar to northern Europe since both are Christian. Your thought process on this seems to entirely lack any sense of direction.

Brian?

midnight city wrote: »

I have answered questions.

Btw what percentage of your posts are questions. Try and give some of your thoughts on issues and stop with the constant questioning. Its tedious.

This thread is about the alt right. I am asking questions about the philosophy espoused by the alt right. I have had none of these questions answered, so I can't give an opposing view. I agree this is tedious, but you could try actually standing by a view and we can debate it. Instead all I get are sly digs at my posting style, where I choose to live and my belief in multiculturalism. If you even asked why I believe in multiculturalism it would be a start towards some sort of dialogue.

Why post here if you don't want to actually engage in debate?

Sweetemotion

Billy86 wrote: »

I was referring to your posts that you refuse to answer. Because you're all over the place on them. You consider Arabs to be white and Uganda to be culturally similar to northern Europe since both are Christian. Your thought process on this seems to entirely lack any sense of direction.

Your thought process is all over the place,not mine.

You say white and I say Caucasian.

As a Caucasian man, I could go to Uganda and meet an African man in a church and have a culturally relation without a word spoken to each other.

Brian?

midnight city wrote: »

Its very easy to just question people on their thoughts without really laying out you own to scrutiny.

One of the posters here is a big open borders advocate. It would be interesting to hear someone trying to sell that idea. It all ties in with an alt right discussion as it relates to immigration.

The alt right position on immigration, from what I can ascertain, is to limit inward migration to only white Europeans. I keep asking for a definition of white europeans so I can compare and contrast this position to my own view. I would also like to critique the definition proposed because I feel the racial distinction is so arbitrary it's impossible to apply.

Sweetemotion

Brian? wrote: »

The alt right position on immigration, from what I can ascertain, is to limit inward migration to only white Europeans. I keep asking for a definition of white europeans so I can compare and contrast this position to my own view. I would also like to critique the definition proposed because I feel the racial distinction is so arbitrary it's impossible to apply.

Every country in the world has borders.

Japan is 98% Japanese, ask them why.

Yourself isit

This kind of rhetoric from a guardian piece today might explain the rise of the alt right

Just about every aspect of western culture centralizes whiteness. Our history, infrastructure, medical system, justice system, education system, entertainment industry – and yes, our social justice organizations – all do this. Whiteness is default, it’s ubiquitous and it’s insidious.

We don’t have to purposefully center whiteness. When we neglect to decentralize it, it will be automatically centered. So work to decentralize whiteness: in your children’s school lessons, in your PTA meetings, in your office meetings, in your city council meetings, in the film and TV you watch, in the music you listen to, in the leaders you support. If you do not decentralize whiteness in your movements for progress, you will leave people of color behind. And what kind of progress is that?

This was in an English paper remember.

Billy86

Sweetemotion wrote: »

Your thought process is all over the place,not mine.

You say white and I say Caucasian.

As a Caucasian man, I could go to Uganda and meet an African man in a church and have a culturally relation without a word spoken to each other.

So you are saying Uganda and Ireland are the same culture? Because here's another example of your thought process being all over the place in your posts:

Sweetemotion wrote: »

Go ahead. Tell me how the Caucasian people are not an ethnicity or have a culture.

Sweetemotion wrote: »

Spain and Russia both mainly Christian, so similar cultures.

Your basis for white/caucasian culture being a homogenous culture is that their religion is the same, therefore Ugandans or Zambians are of the same culture also. But that runs completely counter to the definition of 'caucasian' - "a white person; a person of European origin."

By the way, you definitely did say white.

Sweetemotion wrote: »

All of them are white. If I got a suntan could I say I was Chinese?

Yourself isit

Brian? wrote: »

The alt right position on immigration, from what I can ascertain, is to limit inward migration to only white Europeans. I keep asking for a definition of white europeans so I can compare and contrast this position to my own view. I would also like to critique the definition proposed because I feel the racial distinction is so arbitrary it's impossible to apply.

I have a similar question about "whiteness" as defined by the people who claim white privilege.

Who are the whites?