The alt right - Mod Warning in OP

InTheTrees

midnight city wrote: »

Don't worry about the truth.. it doesn't matter..

Ah The Truth.

Its hard to distinguish The Truth when one side seems to want to make it about religion and race.

Amazingfun

InTheTrees wrote: »

And he tried to use his mother as a pawn to attack jews which has now backfired making him look like an angry mean teenager.

Is it opposite day? You , the very one who claimed the whole incident as imaginary a few days ago , now invert reality and --even when the evidence is right before your eyes--try this crap, lol.

Do keep it up

Billy86

That Richard Spencer video is gas, let’s do a breakdown of it.

He starts off with a nice silent dog whistle about ‘silent majorities’ to get things going. I’m guessing he’s referring to the overwhelming number of people showing support for the Jewish people in their area in their windows over Christmas/Hanukkah.

After that he moves on to childishly whingeing about “who punched first” in a ‘she started it!’ manner – which clearly was him, by using Nazi propaganda, shouting ‘Heil Trump’ and goading on his followers openly using Nazi salutes at his speeches.

He then moves on to claiming that it wasn’t even an issue until Gersh insisted on going to a bunch of news outlets like CNN etc in November. A Google news search for “Gersh Whitefish” between Nov 1st – Nov 30th brings up exactly one link, to a website called “Judas Watch”. CNN, NBC, CBS, ABC, FOX News, NBC Montana, KBZK, KTQV (local Montana news outlets), BBC, the Guardian which he later mentions – not a single one of them show any returns on stories in that date range. This sounds like a flat out lie.

Then he moves swiftly onto another steaming pile of b*ll****, trying to paint trolling as “a way of fighting back and calling people out”. That’s not at all what trolling is, and it’s probably safe to say everyone on this thread is more than aware of that. By this logic, trolls who have faced death sentences of mocking and tormenting parents over their dead children were just fighting back against these bereaved parents and calling them out for... something, having dead children maybe? A typically and predictable disgusting attempt at lies and weasel words.

Something that has to be noted: he says he and Andrew Anglin (who is organising the armed anti Jewish neo Nazi march in Whitefish) “have different styles and approaches.” He never, ever once says that he and Anglin have different views. In fact, it is clear as day to see that he goes out of his way to not criticise nor differentiate himself from the anti-Jewish, neo Nazi white supremacist. The reason for which is very obvious. In yet another case of lies, he says what Anglin is promoting is “just words” – an armed march against Jewish people is not “just words”.

Next up on the agenda of nonsense is claiming LLH do nothing productive for Whitefish community and only stir up trouble, and that they don’t like people are religious – yes, he says this in between rants about the two rabbi’s who are central organisers of LLH. Kind of embarrassingly transparent, especially given that over 50 faith leaders (the vast majority of which are Christian) have come out in support of LLH - http://flatheadbeacon.com/2016/12/22/50-faith-leaders-supporting-jewish-communities-montana . I don’t see much of any coming out in support of Spencer and Anglin. The community of Whitefish are also overwhelmingly in support of LLH as opposed to Spencer

Then Spencer is off into some weird rant about how LLH should be helping the homeless, or lost pets, or alcoholics – LLH are an pro-inclusive, anti-hate group, not a homeless charity. More nonsense weasel words to escape addressing the issue. If Spencer wants something done there he can go and do it himself, surely. In fact later on in the video he says if they do something like that he “will join them” only to –in the very next sentence– go back on that by switching to “or donate, or whatever”. Given the whole rant he goes on here and the guys’ consistent dishonesty, I don’t for a split second trust he would donate so much as a dollar or that he would attempt to lift a finger to “join them”. Of course, he claims this as a way of them making some kind of ‘positive contribution’ – but never once suggests as much for the skinhead Nazis doing their armed march there in less than two weeks.

Gets some more gold old dog whistling in by suggesting it is crazy that Jewish rabbis would have good in their hearts.

Next up on the spiel of lies is claiming the Southern Poverty Law Centre “kind of blew Frank Sweeney off” on his suggestion of listing NPI and Spencer as a hate group – they are already listed by SPLC as white supremacists. He carries on to have a petulant, childish fit about Sweeney being “a dork, a loser”, which sounds comical for all the wrong reasons and is a classic example of why Spencer didn’t have the balls to be interviewed about this and instead decided to have, as others have said, an SJW-like rant on an uncontested video blog.

After this, he says he wants the whole thing to end but claims the onus is on everyone else to apologise to him, to ‘stop it first’. On top of this he claims the “trollstorm will just go away” but never asks them to stop it, or in any way calls for the neo Nazi march to be cancelled. He then says he himself refuses to apologise for anything as he thinks he hasn’t done anything wrong... like using his address in the town to promote his agenda of white supremacist views, Nazi propaganda and goading on seig heil salutes, which has led to disruption in the community previously, which he himself admits to in this very same video.

And to top it all off, he claims throughout the entire video that he doesn’t want to change anything in Whitefish, and yet later in the video shows that to be a complete lie by going off on one about politicians and community leaders, “let’s stop listening to these people. Let’s stop giving authority to them, stop looking to them for guidance, stop listening to them” before more dog whistling about Montana’s Congress representative and f***ing rabbis off all people trying to stop people being religious. The entire crux of the video was a lie, again to the surprise of absolutely nobody. And the cherry on the cake, at the end of the video he is making very thinly veiled threats that things will get worse for them if they don’t essentially shut up, apologise to him and do what he says about changing the community that he says he doesn’t want to change.

TLDR:
All the video shows is what we already knew, that Spencer is a lying, vile, insidious cretin who is willing to use thinly veiled threats in order to try and force people to subscribe to his views and fall in line with his agenda (despite trying to claim the exact opposite while doing so), and who is completely unwilling in any way to condemn or even suggest against an armed neo Nazi march in his own name, aimed specifically against Jews in the town he resides in. He also at no point says (in fact goes out of his way not to say) that his views are any different from Andrew Anglin’s, who is a well known neo Nazi with a very strong hatred of Jewish people, all the while as Spencer sends much of the video throwing around dog whistles about Rabbi’s supposedly hating religion.

Amazingfun

Glad to see the energy levels Spencer inspires you to! Essays and all, as misguided and obviously just a "I don't like him" screed as it is . I am sure all that skewing of reality and namecalling will put a big dent in his support :-)

In other news, not a bad piece on the AltRight in the Irish Times today:

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/the-alt-right-movement-everything-you-need-to-know-1.2924658

Some highlights :

Blue hair: An aggressive, unpleasant feminist with brightly coloured hair, usually depicted as being overweight.

Cat lady: An older, less aggressive version of a blue hair. Cat ladies prefer MSNBC and Cosmopolitan, whereas a blue hair spends her life on social blogging platform Tumblr.

Cuckservative: A portmanteau of “cuckold” and “conservative”, which was originally meant to imply that mainstream conservatives protected the welfare of foreign groups over Americans. Often shortened to “cuck” to describe any weak or feminine man. Conservative commentators Erick Erickson and Rick Wilson are exemplars.

:pac:

Billy86

Amazingfun wrote: »

Glad to see the energy levels Spencer inspires you to! Essays and all, as misguided and obviously just a "I don't like him" screed as it is . I am sure all that skewing of reality and namecalling will put a big dent in his support :-):

Just calling him for what he is and showing it in the post itself. I see you weren't able to actually counter any of what I said though, which much like Spencer's drivel really isn't surprising.

Amazingfun

It's already been countered with facts. Are you that drunk on your feelings of dislike that you imagine this is some kind of devastating slay?

All the video shows is what we already knew, that Spencer is a lying, vile, insidious cretin

Oooooo, what a burn! Not.
So how's this: No, he isn't. He and his family have been under an extortion attack by a real "hate" group that does nothing productive in any way for the people of Whitefish. Fighting back against this kind of possibly criminal act is a very good thing and I am hopeful we will have more to report on Tanya Gersh and the consequences of her actions in the near future.

Billy86

Amazingfun wrote: »

It's already been countered with facts. Are you that drunk on your feelings of dislike that you imagine this is some kind of devastating slay?



Oooooo, what a burn! Not.
So how's this: No, he isn't. He and his family have been under an extortion attack by a real "hate" group that does nothing productive in any way for the people of Whitefish. Fighting back against this kind of possibly criminal act is a very good thing and I am hopeful we will have more to report on Tanya Gersh and the consequences of her actions in the near future.

Do us all a big giant favour and grow up.

Nowhere has my post been rebuttalled with any kind of a fact, so stop talking nonsense and try to actually address it if you have anything of worth whatsoever to add, beyond of course being an apologist for white supremacists and cheering on neo Nazi's and their anti Jewish armed marches in places that they clearly are not welcome.

demfad

Amazingfun wrote: »

Glad to see the energy levels Spencer inspires you to! Essays and all, as misguided and obviously just a "I don't like him" screed as it is . I am sure all that skewing of reality and namecalling will put a big dent in his support :-)

In other news, not a bad piece on the AltRight in the Irish Times today:

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/the-alt-right-movement-everything-you-need-to-know-1.2924658

Some highlights :



:pac:

In Fairness he took little Spence to pieces in that post. You're reply trying to quote insults from an article to sneakily attack the poster was sly, but pretty thin skinned and weak.
In your language you'd be a snowflake I guess? :pac:

InTheTrees

Amazingfun wrote: »

So how's this: No, he isn't. He and his family have been under an extortion attack by a real "hate" group that does nothing productive in any way for the people of Whitefish.

Ha ha ha. Because people lighting candles in their windows to indicate they're not nazi sympathizers is a "real hate group" right?

And it is productive. They're showing unity against the wacko's. This is skiing season, Spencer is actively threatening most Whitefish residents livings with this BS.

Brian?

Amazingfun wrote: »

It's already been countered with facts. Are you that drunk on your feelings of dislike that you imagine this is some kind of devastating slay?



Oooooo, what a burn! Not.
So how's this: No, he isn't. He and his family have been under an extortion attack by a real "hate" group that does nothing productive in any way for the people of Whitefish. Fighting back against this kind of possibly criminal act is a very good thing and I am hopeful we will have more to report on Tanya Gersh and the consequences of her actions in the near future.

Are they a real "hate" group? Or a real hate group in your opinion.

I don't believe they are either. But if someone started a group called "We Hate Nazis" I'd happily join. Being anti facist is not a form of bigotry.

midnight city

I'm not going to get too involved in defending Spencer as i mentioned earlier in the thread he really doesn't represent my views. But anyone so entrenched in their position that they fail to see what a dreadful person Tanya Gersh is is not an honest broker. In terms of what happened in whitefish i would side with Spencer's mother and i'm always suspicious of any group giving themselves a name like love lives here.

B_Wayne

midnight city wrote: »

I'm not going to get too involved in defending Spencer as i mentioned earlier in the thread he really doesn't represent my views. But anyone so entrenched in their position that they fail to see what a dreadful person Tanya Gersh is is not an honest broker. In terms of what happened in whitefish i would side with Spencer's mother and i'm always suspicious of any group giving themselves a name like love lives here.

So you're not rebutting a single thing in the incredible detailed point?

marienbad

Does anyone have a link to the original demands from Gersch that kicked this whole thing off ?

A search just yields page after page of reports of her demands etc . I would like to see the original .

midnight city

B_Wayne wrote: »

So you're not rebutting a single thing in the incredible detailed point?

Seriously who is going to waste their time and energy on that long post. I barely read it let alone spend my time rebutting it.

Brian?

midnight city wrote: »

Seriously who is going to waste their time and energy on that long post. I barely read it let alone spend my time rebutting it.

I know right? Why would anyone engage in serious debate when you can simply stick your fingers in your ears and shout lala lala!

midnight city

Brian? wrote: »

I know right? Why would anyone engage in serious debate when you can simply stick your fingers in your ears and shout lala lala!

I stopped reading it after the first few sentences as I don't believe it is an honest position. He is simply taking sides and nothing Spencer says or does will get a fair hearing.

I prefer the truth. I'm not bothered about taking sides. I have already said I'm not a Spencer supporter. I happen to believe his mother's side more than hate lives here and Tanya gersh.

Billy86

midnight city wrote: »

I stopped reading it after the first few sentences as I don't believe it is an honest position. He is simply taking sides and nothing Spencer says or does will get a fair hearing.

I prefer the truth. I'm not bothered about taking sides. I have already said I'm not a Spencer supporter. I happen to believe his mother's side more than hate lives here and Tanya gersh.

I do get that you're not a Spencer supporter, and my post wasn't a defense of Tanya Gersh - what it was doing was point out that Spencer is without doubt a white supremacist and incredibly dishonest in that video for a number of reasons stated throughout my post.

I'm sure though that you'll be able to point out where I was dishonest in those first few sentences at least, but I would ask that you back them up by showing that Spencer's 'Heil Trump' speech never happened, by showing that the majority of people in Whitefish are siding with Spencer, by linking to some media stories dated from November about Gersh going to the press about it, or by pointing out where in the video he says he does not share the same views as skinheaded neo Nazi Andrew Anglin who is organising the march that is at the centre of all of this controversy.

Because those are what the first few sentences of my post covered. I also included a TLDR section at the bottom which should help cover your complaint about it being too long (hey, the video was 16 minutes - what do you expect ).

B_Wayne

midnight city wrote: »

Seriously who is going to waste their time and energy on that long post. I barely read it let alone spend my time rebutting it.

It strikes me that you can't rebut anything, Gersh has faced a load of antisemetic abuse. In fact white supremacists have not only targeted the charity but also other Jewish people in the area. The people of Whitefish have congregated against because he is a hate monger who is promoting hate in the area.

This is another source of Billy's. So the religious of Montana and the town of Whitefish view the action of Spencer and his ilk as reprehensible. The fact that people deny that he's even a white supremacists if fascinating.


Anyway, Billy had a simplified version that you might be able to read...

All the video shows is what we already knew, that Spencer is a lying, vile, insidious cretin who is willing to use thinly veiled threats in order to try and force people to subscribe to his views and fall in line with his agenda (despite trying to claim the exact opposite while doing so), and who is completely unwilling in any way to condemn or even suggest against an armed neo Nazi march in his own name, aimed specifically against Jews in the town he resides in. He also at no point says (in fact goes out of his way not to say) that his views are any different from Andrew Anglin’s, who is a well known neo Nazi with a very strong hatred of Jewish people, all the while as Spencer sends much of the video throwing around dog whistles about Rabbi’s supposedly hating religion.

Brian?

midnight city wrote: »

I stopped reading it after the first few sentences as I don't believe it is an honest position. He is simply taking sides and nothing Spencer says or does will get a fair hearing.

I prefer the truth. I'm not bothered about taking sides. I have already said I'm not a Spencer supporter. I happen to believe his mother's side more than hate lives here and Tanya gersh.

If you stopped reading after the first few sentences you shouldn't attempt to critique it. That's intellectually dishonest.

You believe in his mother's side why?

B_Wayne

Brian? wrote: »

If you stopped reading after the first few sentences you shouldn't attempt to critique it. That's intellectually dishonest.

You believe in his mother's side why?

It seems more like the user is happy to not give Gersh or the charity she's with a fair trial. But the guy who is going "Heil Trump" could totally be innocent.

ancapailldorcha

Amazingfun will be taking a few days off.

ancapailldorcha

midnight city wrote: »

Seriously who is going to waste their time and energy on that long post. I barely read it let alone spend my time rebutting it.

This isn't acceptable here. This is a forum for discussion, not soapboxing. If you'd prefer the latter, I suggest you find somewhere else to post.

Kitsunegari

Until the Republicans and Democrats start serving the people we will continue to allow the likes of Breitbart and its ilk to exist. Their is major political unrest and its business as usual for the politicans. Until their is major political reform then the alt-right will continue to pick up the disgruntled voter.

Brian?

A prime example of the underhanded, lying scumbags at the heart of the alt right:

http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-38519209

The crime itself was horrible and should be condemned in the strongest terms. I hope the perpetrators spend a long time in prison. But it has zero to do the with Black Lives Matter movement. The story is being manipulated by Spencer et al, to attack BLM based on nothing.

20Cent

Brian? wrote: »

A prime example of the underhanded, lying scumbags at the heart of the alt right:

http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-38519209

The crime itself was horrible and should be condemned in the strongest terms. I hope the perpetrators spend a long time in prison. But it has zero to do the with Black Lives Matter movement. The story is being manipulated by Spencer et al, to attack BLM based on nothing.

It's part of the process learnt from gamergate. Truth doesn't matter many won't even bother trying to find out for themselves.

The Irish Times getting grief for an article they published about the alt right
http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/the-alt-right-movement-everything-you-need-to-know-1.2924658

Similar to the KKK and earlier forms nazi behavior they try and mask it and normalise it. The Irish Times shouldn't be publishing light hearted guides to fascism they should be showing it for what it is.

PopePalpatine

I swear Pell's "glossary" is just a re-jigged copy of Breitshart's own "An Establishment Conservative's Guide to the Alt-Right" fluff piece.

I guess the IT felt their site needed a bit of wind-up clickbait and John Waters didn't feel like dusting off his quill, ink and parchment.

20Cent

PopePalpatine wrote: »

I swear Pell's "glossary" is just a re-jigged copy of Breitshart's own "An Establishment Conservative's Guide to the Alt-Right" fluff piece.

I guess the IT felt their site needed a bit of wind-up clickbait and John Waters didn't feel like dusting off his quill, ink and parchment.

Alt-right: A young, energetic upstart faction of the Trump coalition heavily active on Twitter and underground forums. Characterised by nationalism, scepticism toward globalism and an irreverent sense of humour.


Makes them sound like a group of little harmless scamps.

PopePalpatine

Hang on, I guess we've been too quick to accuse Pell of being alt-right...

...as according to the alt-right, any migrant in Calais claiming to be a child is actually a fully-grown adult who'll fend off a neckbeard trying to ambush them. As you can see, Pell is making a vague threat towards the migrants, who are unlikely to have Twitter/Facebook profiles which can get flooded with the nastiest shit you can drag up on /pol/ like the alt-right's other enemies. :rolleyes:

Wanderer78

apologies if this was already posted:

https://soundcloud.com/irishtimes-politics/inside-story-the-response-to-an-alt-right-article

ancapailldorcha

Wanderer78 wrote: »

apologies if this was already posted:

https://soundcloud.com/irishtimes-politics/inside-story-the-response-to-an-alt-right-article

Please don't just dump links here. Add some info on the content please.