The alt right - Mod Warning in OP

20Cent

Problem is the alt right aren't just on the internet as per the Charlottesville marches. Kek flags are regularly taken to protests.

Billy86

True enough they're not just on the internet, but their presence is strangely more prominent on it. It was also a movement that was manufactured and has successfully sucked others in through those same targeted means.

20Cent

Billy86 wrote: »

True enough they're not just on the internet, but their presence is strangely more prominent on it. It was also a movement that was manufactured and has successfully sucked others in through those same targeted means.

The fake Boston Antifa account was hosted from Russia. It had people up in arms literally about spoof Antifa actions designed to anger them.

The Legend Of Kira

There was another rally involving Richard Spencer in [font=arial, sans-serif]Charlottesville this past weekend, which hasn,t gotten as much attention as the previous rally in August, why ? well there didn,t appear to be any real counter protests, when they get ignored instead of get acknowledged they don,t get the same level of attention, a good example of why its better to ignore such rallies rather counter then protest them & get them more extra publicity .[/font]

demfad

The Legend Of Kira wrote: »

There was another rally involving Richard Spencer in [font=arial, sans-serif]Charlottesville this past weekend, which hasn,t gotten as much attention as the previous rally in August, why ? well there didn,t appear to be any real counter protests, when they get ignored instead of get acknowledged they don,t get the same level of attention, a good example of why its better to ignore such rallies rather counter then protest them & get them more extra publicity .[/font]

Better still to ban these hate rallies. The right to rally ends when it is used to incite hatred and violence.

marienbad

demfad wrote: »

Better still to ban these hate rallies. The right to rally ends when it is used to incite hatred and violence.

Ban ban ban and when that doesn't work lets try more banning .

demfad

marienbad wrote: »

Ban ban ban and when that doesn't work lets try more banning .

Poor answer.

James Brown

Never ignore. It's okay if they didn't bother anyone? If you're straight, white, christian, maybe. In the very least, it must be a very uncomfortable feeling to know people are marching against your right to live or even exist, no matter how uneventful the hate march might be.

marienbad

demfad wrote: »

Poor answer.

Ban me so .

The Legend Of Kira

demfad wrote: »

The Legend Of Kira wrote: »

There was another rally involving Richard Spencer in [font=arial, sans-serif]Charlottesville this past weekend, which hasn,t gotten as much attention as the previous rally in August, why ? well there didn,t appear to be any real counter protests, when they get ignored instead of get acknowledged they don,t get the same level of attention, a good example of why its better to ignore such rallies rather counter then protest them & get them more extra publicity .[/font]

Better still to ban these hate rallies. The right to rally ends when it is used to incite hatred and violence.

If you ban them, all you l succeed in doing is driving them underground, instead of them holding public rallies they l have underground gatherings instead, if they re chanting slogans etc leave them & ignore it will pass without incident as happened this past weekend, if they cross the line into acts of violence or acts of vandalism , the police are there to act on such crimes and arrest them.

Overheal

marienbad wrote: »

Ban ban ban and when that doesn't work lets try more banning .

Yep. Good idea when applied correctly:

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-41577129

marienbad

Overheal wrote: »

Yep. Good idea when applied correctly:

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-41577129

Not quite the same though , these people have crossed the lines years ago into intimidation and violence .

And when they do they should be subject to the full rigour of the law .

Brian?

demfad wrote: »

Better still to ban these hate rallies. The right to rally ends when it is used to incite hatred and violence.

I disagree. Let them march, then point and laugh.

demfad

Brian? wrote: »

I disagree. Let them march, then point and laugh.

That's OK when they are powerless. These guys have the backing of the president of the United States. You fight him by fighting them and vice versa.
That forces him to denounce them or support them which weakens one or the other or both.

PopePalpatine

This is worth bearing in mind if Microrichard Spencer & co. try making political capital out of Harvey Weinstein being a sex pest.

stefanovich

demfad wrote: »

Better still to ban these hate rallies. The right to rally ends when it is used to incite hatred and violence.

How about this for a controversial and radical idea. Free speech. Let people have an opinion that is contrary to yours and then argue your position.

OnDraught

stefanovich wrote: »

How about this for a controversial and radical idea. Free speech. Let people have an opinion that is contrary to yours and then argue your position.

It worked out so well in the aftermath of WW1. What could possibly go wrong?

Sand

OnDraught wrote: »

It worked out so well in the aftermath of WW1. What could possibly go wrong?

The problem post WW1 was not free speech (which didn't exist in any case). It was political violence becoming normalised, much as antifa groups have normalised political violence today.

Billy86

Sand wrote: »

The problem post WW1 was not free speech (which didn't exist in any case). It was political violence becoming normalised, much as antifa groups have normalised political violence today.

Every bit as much as antifa, a person who has normalised political violence in the recent past is Trump, by literally directing supporters to use violence and claiming he will cover their legal fees while also going out of his way to ignore and downplay right wing neo Nazi terrorism, and on top of all that who also has a serious dislike of free speech.

Sand

Billy86 wrote: »

Every bit as much as antifa, a person who has normalised political violence in the recent past is Trump, by literally directing supporters to use violence and claiming he will cover their legal fees while also going out of his way to ignore and downplay right wing neo Nazi terrorism, and on top of all that who also has a serious dislike of free speech.

I agree to an extent and Trump was (rightfully) denounced for those actions. Antifa isnt. Its become normal background noise for these groups to show up to assault people they politically disagree with. As it is, Trump and Antifa are not symptoms of a healthy political discourse and all right thinking people should reject both without surrendering the concept of free speech.

Billy86

Sand wrote: »

I agree to an extent and Trump was (rightfully) denounced for those actions. Antifa isnt. Its become normal background noise for these groups to show up to assault people they politically disagree with. As it is, Trump and Antifa are not symptoms of a healthy political discourse and all right thinking people should reject both without surrendering the concept of free speech.

Antifa get denounced also, if anything they get denounced more on boards than the alt right do (probably because we've got alt right subscribers on boards, but no antifa members at least that I'm aware of). These are not healthy in the least of course, and it in no small part moves back to the Tea Party movement which was made in response to America's first black president and later took on other elements beginning with right wing news in the US (FOX, Breitbart, etc... but perhaps most notably talk radio) until finally moving on to settling in with Russia and other shady online characters to spread fake news.

Funny enough, while I don't approve of antifa there has been a huge effort to spread fake news about these constantly for a year now, if not more. Did you know they're planning a civil war in three weeks? That got the Google's top news stories because of the same targeting systems used in Brexit and to get Trump elected.

It's unhealthy discourse altogether, but that's exactly how certain actors want it and will continue to push it, basically.

Billy86

Also since tomorrow morning some of us will be getting texts to stay home etc or might have a longer than normal commute with the weather, I have not got to read this yet but think it could be interesting:

MY YEAR INSIDE THE INTERNATIONAL ALT-RIGHT

For the past year, Patrik Hermansson, a young, gay, anti-racist activist from Sweden has been undercover inside the alt-right for HOPE not hate. He risked all to go undercover in some of the most notorious far-right networks in the US and the UK, culminating in the violent clashes in Charlottesville.

This is his story.

Looks like they're making some kind of documentary out of it:

PopePalpatine

Richard Spencer's fragile ego can't handle the free speech of journalists, so for his upcoming sermon at the University of Florida they'll need his approval to cover it.

Varik

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Richard Spencer's fragile ego can't handle the free speech of journalists, so for his upcoming sermon at the University of Florida they'll need his approval to cover it.

Not a free speech issue.

demfad

Sand wrote: »

The problem post WW1 was not free speech (which didn't exist in any case). It was political violence becoming normalised, much as antifa groups have normalised political violence today.

Antifa are not who you believe them to be:
https://www.buzzfeed.com/craigsilverman/fake-antifa-twitter-accounts?utm_term=.tbjRwM5R4#.obE3e9a3X

The majority of protestors don't identify as antifa.

It is rightwingers who call them this to exagerate the political violence:

Here is more:

https://twitter.com/conspirator0/status/913588459847208961

Remember political violence does not just mean physical violence: it can mean using political power to hurt people. Almost all the political violence is being carried out by the US State now, with help from minions in the far-right.

20Cent

demfad wrote: »

Antifa are not who you believe them to be:
https://www.buzzfeed.com/craigsilverman/fake-antifa-twitter-accounts?utm_term=.tbjRwM5R4#.obE3e9a3X

Antifa has been blown out of all proportion by the alt and far right to take away from their own violence. There was one account Boston Antifa which I have seen quoted and linked to loads on boards, (an obvious troll account but loads fell for it) which turned out to be fake and tweeting from Russia. The fake accounts have caused loads of hoaxes even one where someone shot himself in the foot.


A Fake Story Tricked Trump Supporters Into Protesting For No Reason, Then One Of Them Accidentally Shot Himself
The protest appears to have started with a story on a fake antifascist Facebook account that was actually set up to troll leftists.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanhatesthis/a-guy-accidentally-shot-himself-after-a-fake-news-story?utm_term=.blPKQqnJXj#.dpDVwWvzpD

20Cent

Why isn't this being called what it is Terrorism?

Three men charged after protesters shot at following Richard Spencer speech

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/oct/20/gainesville-shooting-three-men-charged-florida-richard-spencer

Tyler Tenbrink and brothers William and Colton Fears charged in Florida
All three white nationalists were also present at Charlottesville rally

Billy86

Another alt-right neo Nazi rally was attempted in Murfeesboro, Tennessee yesterday. It... well it didn't go so well.

They came proud:
https://twitter.com/natalie_allison/status/924296540096749573
https://twitter.com/natalie_allison/status/924295198171172866

Let's not pretend they're anything but what they are, actual Nazis:
Click here for Blood and Soil meaning (Wiki page, so fairly work safe)
https://twitter.com/letsgomathias/status/924318367082741761

Some were looking to sneak weapons in, to the surprise of nobody:
https://twitter.com/natalie_allison/status/924290196639813632

They are predictable cowards though and most failed to show:
https://twitter.com/MichaelEHayden/status/924372430050783234

And those who did show wound up getting roundly mocked, as deserved:
https://twitter.com/letsgomathias/status/924319611964809216

Over and over again:
https://twitter.com/letsgomathias/status/924311990964817920

20Cent

A second white lives matter ralley has been canceled.
Protesting them does work. If people listened to the the ignore them brigade they'd be marching everywhere getting stronger.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/white-lives-matter-organizers-cancel-second-rally-after-being-taunted-by-counterprotesters/2017/10/28/a6fee0d2-bc1f-11e7-be94-fabb0f1e9ffb_story.html?utm_term=.b0095d245e8f


‘White Lives Matter’ organizers cancel second rally after taunts from counterprotesters

Chips Lovell

Despite the mod warning, we've still got some people who aren't heeding the charter:

High standards of debate and quality posts / threads are required. Repeated one liner, low quality style posts will result in a ban. Threads (and posts) that are not based on serious and legitimate Political discussion will be deleted without warning.

If you want to repost rubbish from Twitter, find somewhere else.