What are tenants responsibilities regarding keeping house heated

MayBee

Sleeper12 wrote: »

As you insulate the house & get better windows you are stopping drafts and such. This is all wonderfull but you then need to increase ventilation

Your question is: What are tenants responsibilities regarding keeping house heated
Answer is none. They are entitled to their own comfort levels. The PRTB should be able to explain this to you.
It's only getting cold this weekend. Why would they have heating on if they are not cold.

Appropriate vents were added, as I said the house is very well maintained, all issues are dealt with speedily, in fact my parents go above and beyond normal landlord duties, which is probably more fool them, but they want to ensure that the property does not deteriorate.
Rightly or wrongly they're of the mindset that a house needs to have heat in it. Cold gets into a house very quickly as anyone who has been in a house that's been vacant (or no heating on) for a while will know.

intheclouds

MayBee wrote: »

Appropriate vents were added, as I said the house is very well maintained, all issues are dealt with speedily, in fact my parents go above and beyond normal landlord duties, which is probably more fool them, but they want to ensure that the property does not deteriorate.
Rightly or wrongly they're of the mindset that a house needs to have heat in it. Cold gets into a house very quickly as anyone who has been in a house that's been vacant (or no heating on) for a while will know.

A house in Ireland does need to be heated.

Your parents should speak to prtb. What the tenant is doing is no different than any other kind of neglect. I'd be getting rid of them.

Sleeper12

MayBee wrote: »

Appropriate vents were added, as I said the house is very well maintained, all issues are dealt with speedily, in fact my parents go above and beyond normal landlord duties, which is probably more fool them, but they want to ensure that the property does not deteriorate.
Rightly or wrongly they're of the mindset that a house needs to have heat in it. Cold gets into a house very quickly as anyone who has been in a house that's been vacant (or no heating on) for a while will know.

Cold doesn't cause damp or mould.


If you have mould or damp then something is wrong. You shouldn't need heating on to keep damp away especially if the house was insulated properly & has enough ventilation

Maybe you should look elswhere. Are they drying clothes inside? If so put in a dehumidifier. Is there a tumble dryer? if so is is vented to outside or is it just adding to moister in the air? Have tenant blocked vents? They don't have to heat the place but they certainly can't block vents.

ted1

Sleeper12 wrote: »

If they don't want heat on they don't have to. If you feel it's damaging the house you can pay for the heat but you can not force a tenant to use heating
If they get an airlock in the oil line and you have to pay a plumber it's up to them to pay for this.

What about frost protection fur the pipes , there should be enough oil so that the house never drops below 5 deg

pilly

Sleeper12 wrote:

If you have mould or damp then something is wrong. You shouldn't need heating on to keep damp away especially if the house was insulated properly & has enough ventilation

So why are we told if we're going to be away during freezing weather to set heating on a timer for danger of frozen pipes that then burst?

Sleeper12

<mod snip>
First thing is cold can't cause mould. Surface mould in homes is caused by condensation. You'll get mould in bathrooms with bad ventilation in the middle of summer. Heat has nothing to do with it.
Op should not have this issue because the property has been brought up to standard with insulation and ventilation.
So what is causing the mould. Is there an working extractor fan over the cooker? Some people use the oven and some people boil all their food.
Tumble dryer should be vented.

L1011

If there's someone out there who hasn't had heating on yet this year and has also been ventilating the house properly and drying clothes properly the entire time, they're probably from Siberia. If either of those two haven't been followed the house will be damp as hell and entirely down to them.

They have potentially caused terminal damage to the oil tank that needs to be investigated and rectified immediately - regardless of any other obligations.

athtrasna

Mod note

Lads this thread is a disaster zone. Cards have been issued and posts deleted.

A simple reminder of the forum charter:
Please be civil
Attack the post not the poster
Please don't identify individuals or companies
Report don't retort

And finally, the to and fro is derailing the thread, take it to pm please

Thanks

Sam Kade

pilly wrote: »

I tried this before and was then told that the drums of oil had damaged the motor and it was my problem to fix so that's not necessarily a solution either. Repairman told me the drums of oil can introduce contamination to the tank? Not sure if that's true or not because I had no experience of oil heating before.

You can get a funnel with a filter for pouring oil from drums or they could go completely mad and get the tank half filled.

Sam Kade

K.Flyer wrote: »

Do you mean Oil

It only needs to be slight, aboit 1 inch in the difference would be enough.

Most tanks have the outlet slightly higher than the base of the tank, no need for tilting.

Sleeper12

ted1 wrote: »

What about frost protection fur the pipes , there should be enough oil so that the house never drops below 5 deg

This thread is now asking a lot more than the original question: What are tenants responsibilities regarding keeping house heated
I've answered this several times. I've also said that tenant should pay for oil tank airlocks etc.I'm happy to say that I don't know everything

K.Flyer

Sam Kade wrote: »

Most tanks have the outlet slightly higher than the base of the tank, no need for tilting.

Its good practice to install the tank with appox 1" difference. I have been putting them in like that for decades and I am Oftec certified.

Sleeper12

pilly wrote: »

So why are we told if we're going to be away during freezing weather to set heating on a timer for danger of frozen pipes that then burst?

Have the pipes burst? sorry I haven't seen this in previous comments

Sleeper12

Sleeper12 wrote: »

<mod snip>
First thing is cold can't cause mould. Surface mould in homes is caused by condensation. You'll get mould in bathrooms with bad ventilation in the middle of summer. Heat has nothing to do with it.
Op should not have this issue because the property has been brought up to standard with insulation and ventilation.
So what is causing the mould. Is there an working extractor fan over the cooker? Some people use the oven and some people boil all their food.
Tumble dryer should be vented.

Not sure why this was edited. If I caused offense it wasn't my intention

ZENER

From personal experience: We have a house which has been rented to various tenants for the past 12 years. The house has 2 heating systems, an oil boiler and a large stove in the sitting room. Either system will heat the rads in the house. Mould was never a problem until 4 years ago when a new tenant moved in. Rather than heat the house they all wore coats, scarves and gloves !! Mould started appearing first in the bathrooms then in all the upstairs bedrooms. After a year they moved out complaining the heating was too expensive ?!

When they left we got the mould treated and discovered that the tenants had stuffed old clothes in all the vents in every room. The next family that moved in also didn't use the heating systems. They lived in one large bedroom, again stuffed clothes in the vents and used a gas heater in this room and had a clothes horse where they dried clothes. This room was destroyed with mould within a couple of months. The other rooms were fine with the exception of the bathroom which was also ruined with mould.

The next tenants were also reluctant to use the heating, stuffed the vents again and despite it being treated the mould returned. They also used a gas heater.

The house has been empty now for about 6 months - we're selling it. The mould was treated - again ! New vents installed and both bathrooms re-grouted. The vents are all opened and the mould has not re-appeared. It's a modern house with uPVC windows.

Ken

sammyjo90

pilly wrote: »

So why are we told if we're going to be away during freezing weather to set heating on a timer for danger of frozen pipes that then burst?

That is entirely different and irrelevant.
If the pipes had burst then the water would be the cause of the mold. Not because it was actually cold.

Edups

pilly wrote: »

not every house in the country is insulated or ventilated properly, mainly due to cowboy builders.

I can tell you one thing, it's more often the person paying the bills who won't pay for proper insulation. Or should trade members make up the difference? if the house was properly vented and insulted damp would not be an issue. Fact.

Edups

ZENER wrote: »

From personal experience: We have a house which has been rented to various tenants for the past 12 years. The house has 2 heating systems, an oil boiler and a large stove in the sitting room. Either system will heat the rads in the house. Mould was never a problem until 4 years ago when a new tenant moved in. Rather than heat the house they all wore coats, scarves and gloves !! Mould started appearing first in the bathrooms then in all the upstairs bedrooms. After a year they moved out complaining the heating was too expensive ?!

When they left we got the mould treated and discovered that the tenants had stuffed old clothes in all the vents in every room. The next family that moved in also didn't use the heating systems. They lived in one large bedroom, again stuffed clothes in the vents and used a gas heater in this room and had a clothes horse where they dried clothes. This room was destroyed with mould within a couple of months. The other rooms were fine with the exception of the bathroom which was also ruined with mould.

The next tenants were also reluctant to use the heating, stuffed the vents again and despite it being treated the mould returned. They also used a gas heater.

The house has been empty now for about 6 months - we're selling it. The mould was treated - again ! New vents installed and both bathrooms re-grouted. The vents are all opened and the mould has not re-appeared. It's a modern house with uPVC windows.

Ken

What was the vent stuffing in aid of? Draft reduction like?

ZENER

Edups wrote: »

What was the vent stuffing in aid of? Draft reduction like?

I presume to stop cold air getting in ?

Ken

Edups

ZENER wrote: »

I presume to stop cold air getting in ?

Ken

Well if OPs tenants are at that ****e that's different. But if not then either

1. Vents are bad
2 Vents are blocked
3. House is in need of renovation

utmbuilder

insanely hard for some familys heating a house on oil with the price of rent now. i remember i lived in athboy and in winter months had to put 800 in the tank every 2 months and still build a massive fire every night. on top of rents plus 1000 and all the other bills, people without a strong income struggle this time of the year its very sad.

We live in a much bigger house in dublin now and the natural gas and proper insulation means with flick a switch and the bills are tiny every month.

ted1

Sleeper12 wrote: »

This thread is now asking a lot more than the original question: What are tenants responsibilities regarding keeping house heated
I've answered this several times. I've also said that tenant should pay for oil tank airlocks etc.I'm happy to say that I don't know everything

They have to keep the house in good condition, not having heating that has frost protection may in all likely good result in burst pipes

intheclouds

utmbuilder wrote: »

insanely hard for some familys heating a house on oil with the price of rent now. i remember i lived in athboy and in winter months had to put 800 in the tank every 2 months and still build a massive fire every night. on top of rents plus 1000 and all the other bills, people without a strong income struggle this time of the year its very sad.

We live in a much bigger house in dublin now and the natural gas and proper insulation means with flick a switch and the bills are tiny every month.

Absolutely, but this applies to anyone, not just people renting. It's also insanely hard to heat a house while paying a mortgage.

MayBee

Edups wrote: »

I can tell you one thing, it's more often the person paying the bills who won't pay for proper insulation. Or should trade members make up the difference? if the house was properly vented and insulted damp would not be an issue. Fact.

I beg to differ, the house was previously rented to other tenants and there was no issues, this has only happened with the current tenant. House was to the same standard for both tenants.

Sleeper12

ted1 wrote:

They have to keep the house in good condition, not having heating that has frost protection may in all likely good result in burst pipes

I hear what you are saying. Having said that I've rarely seen landlords provide genuine frost protection. I've never seen tenants leave heating on while they are away say for Christmas. Frost setting on trvs won't work unless heating is left on.

Look take a step back and read the ops original comments. Tenants don't seem to be using the heating & yet they ran the oil tank dry twice & it's only starting to get cold now. It was 16c last Monday. Just listening to the radio & they are saying one of the warmest autumns on record.
Tenent may have electric heaters & are using these cos oil ran out. Tennant did get in touch with landlord saying heating isn't working so it does suggest to me that now that it is getting cold the tenants want heat.

I've been told that some filling stations selling home heating oil. As little as 5 gallons at a time.

smunchkins

Some thoughts
a) Interfering with the oil tank is a REALLY bad idea. I had a serious oil leak last year which took six months to fix, floors had to be removed and the whole place renovated. The fuel line had weathered and corroded. If you're tilting things that are meant to be flat you're putting all strain where it shouldn't.
b) I too have had this ventilation/mould/heating problem with tenants. There are a few stop gaps you can implement till they choose to leave (I'm not arguing the case for or against those in financial difficulty). Paint the walls with anti-mould/bathroom/kitchen paint, give them a dehumidifier (tempted to do a bit of science about water and cold/condensation for some posters on here :P) or even two. Also invest in some non-electric dehumidifers (like for caravans and camping). You have to empty and top them up with the crystals every few weeks or so but they are excellent for particularly wet places (like in cupboards in kitchens). If you can, ask them to leave doors open around the house to increase air flow (this doesn't help with them feeling cold).
When my tenants eventually left I did have to gut the place. One person was there all day, along with a large dog and it is amazing how damp a place can become with all this pesky breathing going on all the time (and people don't go in and out so much to provide fresh air in the winter)/
c) Oil can be bought from the oil companies in deliveries of €200 and paid off over a few months. They understand people do not have such large amounts to hand straight away. If the tenants want heat, then try to get them in contact with your local supplier. You may have to hand over the account to them, or possibly get them to make a down payment to get them started. An oil monitor can also be bought for about €115, or if you want to go the way of charging them, a meter can be bought for about €270.
Good luck!

murphaph

ZENER wrote: »

When they left we got the mould treated and discovered that the tenants had stuffed old clothes in all the vents in every room. The next family that moved in also didn't use the heating systems. They lived in one large bedroom, again stuffed clothes in the vents and used a gas heater in this room and had a clothes horse where they dried clothes. This room was destroyed with mould within a couple of months. The other rooms were fine with the exception of the bathroom which was also ruined with mould.

You really can't account for the stupidity of some people. Drying clothes at all inside is bad enough but using a gas heater to do so (a main by-product of combustion is water vapour!) is idiotic in the extreme. I find in general that the majority of Irish people don't appreciate that you need to air a dwelling properly (either mechanically or through proper use of the windows) and often or mould is unavoidable.

L1011

Edups wrote: »

What was the vent stuffing in aid of? Draft reduction like?

Believe that it'll make the house warmer and more habitable rather than damper (and hence actually feel colder) and disgusting

Had one room in my house when I bought it with a mold problem. Vents had been stuffed shut with a copy of the NME (it was in newspaper format them) from 1993. Two entire ownership changes had happened since and nobody checked why it was having problems.