NEW 2016 Open and Interdepartmental Assistant Principal in Civil Service competition.

noodler

dee75 wrote: »

That's awful ATTY. 100% in the etray should be instant qualification for the job! That's incredible! To work so well under such ridiculous pressure as that bloody etray test....

I hope you don't give up

Ah here, that's a ridiculous assertion.

DeirdreDee

Typically each Dept. take people off three panels: the Open, the Interdepartmental, and Internal (departments run their own competitions too). The rule now is 1:1:1. A department takes 1 from the Open, then the next vacancy they have, they take from the Interdepartmental, then the next vacancy, the take from the Internal panel.

That's how it works.

spitonmedickie

DeirdreDee wrote: »

Typically each Dept. take people off three panels: the Open, the Interdepartmental, and Internal (departments run their own competitions too). The rule now is 1:1:1. A department takes 1 from the Open, then the next vacancy they have, they take from the Interdepartmental, then the next vacancy, the take from the Internal panel.

That's how it works.

Thanks DeirdreDee, so really if you were first on your particular panel you could really be 3rd choice (so to speak)

DeirdreDee

That's correct but there'll be so many vacancies in the next 18 months that hopefully everyone who passed in this month's interviews will get jobs. And as a civil servant myself, I'm delighted we are recruiting from outside. New ideas and fresh outlook are always welcome.

ZolaGood

spitonmedickie wrote: »

Thanks DeirdreDee, so really if you were first on your particular panel you could really be 3rd choice (so to speak)

Plus a few departments would have had an internal competition or two and placed loads from those so they may 'owe' to the interD/open meaning there might be a few more pulled for these departments.

Rosiebeans81

DeirdreDee wrote: »

That's correct but there'll be so many vacancies in the next 18 months that hopefully everyone who passed in this month's interviews will get jobs. And as a civil servant myself, I'm delighted we are recruiting from outside. New ideas and fresh outlook are always welcome.

Do you think so? I came early 100s and was working off the basis they'd never get that far at ap level in the panel lifetime. Esp as they have to go 1:1:1. Plus I've regional locations chosen.

bobbysands81

Rosiebeans81 wrote: »

Do you think so? I came early 100s and was working off the basis they'd never get that far at ap level in the panel lifetime. Esp as they have to go 1:1:1. Plus I've regional locations chosen.

It really depends on how many people aren't ahead of you in the regions you've chosen as most AP roles are in Dublin but there are plenty outside Dublin as well. In major areas such as Kildare, Cork etc... there should be a few vacancies but in some other counties there will be very few, if any, vacancies. That's why I feel it's strange that PAS asked people to choose the way they did because only allowing two choices of counties was incredibly unfair.

Anyone who has just been placed on a panel, and who has chosen Dublin, will 100% get offered a post (this is my opinion, not fact).

gics

If anyone wants to swap details of their rankings and what regions they are looking for PM me

dee75

noodler wrote: »

Ah here, that's a ridiculous assertion.

That was tongue in cheek and expressing sympathy!

foxatron

Dont forget, although ratio is 1:1:1 theres always the possibility that someone can be on more than one panel at the same time ie open internal inter D. If this is the case a placement from one panel can inadvertently speed up other candidates placements from a separate panel.

dee75

gics wrote: »

If anyone wants to swap details of their rankings and what regions they are looking for PM me

Sent you PM

Colourspring

gics wrote: »

If anyone wants to swap details of their rankings and what regions they are looking for PM me

Pm sent

Colourspring

Out of curiosity, are there many here that were recently successful on the HEO comp also get placed on this panel too?

luckyboy

gics wrote: »

If anyone wants to swap details of their rankings and what regions they are looking for PM me

PM sent

salomon

Colourspring wrote: »

Out of curiosity, are there many here that were recently successful on the HEO comp also get placed on this panel too?

Me. I had my AP interview the week after I started as HEO

Colourspring

salomon wrote: »

Me. I had my AP interview the week after I started as HEO

Same as myself. Didn't see this coming, thought I'd completely bombed at interview- actually a bit nervous now!😟😂

eoinola

I got 49 on the inter.. so delighted but got a quick realisation of the pending change of scenery. As as PO told me yesterday....

"HEO is an easy one, flexi etc... but AP is not an easy ride. You will work very hard (in some cases on call as such) and you will need to bring a lot of assertion to the table plus react to tough leglistavive and political scenarios that arise."

But that's why we went for it I guess.

Colourspring

eoinola wrote: »

I got 49 on the inter.. so delighted but got a quick realisation of the pending change of scenery. As as PO told me yesterday....

"HEO is an easy one, flexi etc... but AP is not an easy ride. You will work very hard (in some cases on call as such) and you will need to bring a lot of assertion to the table plus react to tough leglistavive and political scenarios that arise."

But that's why we went for it I guess.

I think a fairly rapid gear change is coming to a lot us- I've recently moved to an really busy/complex division and am glad now - might help me acclimatise. I'd love to know where I'm heading in order to prepare a bit.

Clonmel1000

HEO is a tough ride I can assure you. Just depends on what department you are in.

trashcan

Clonmel1000 wrote: »

HEO is a tough ride I can assure you. Just depends on what department you are in.

Damn right. Just like AP, I don't think there is a one size fits all. Some HEO positions will be tougher than others, likewise AP.

Rosiebeans81

trashcan wrote: »

Damn right. Just like AP, I don't think there is a one size fits all. Some HEO positions will be tougher than others, likewise AP.

I def think it depends on the dept the PO and from what I can see the person themselves. But having recently been "outside" there's no weekends at work,stuff like term time, possibility of career breaks , actually getting annual leave and the odd tea break!! The opportunity to move depts, take on different projects etc etc. It's got a lot to offer .

ZolaGood

Rosiebeans81 wrote: »

I def think it depends on the dept the PO and from what I can see the person themselves. But having recently been "outside" there's no weekends at work,stuff like term time, possibility of career breaks , actually getting annual leave and the odd tea break!! The opportunity to move depts, take on different projects etc etc. It's got a lot to offer .

Agree in my experience HEO is often a harder role as you have to be all things to all people whereas an AP can concentrate on their niche so to speak but the PO is key to how hard things can get ...after a long time as a HEO I look forward to the challenge

Steveie2017

gics wrote: »

If anyone wants to swap details of their rankings and what regions they are looking for PM me

Pm sent!

Steveie2017

I've been a HEO for just over 18 months and comparing my role with that of a number of APs in my dept, I can safely say the HEO role can be much more work intensive. In addition, you have to manage the needs and wants of your staff with the needs and wants of your AP and PO. However, the AP role comes with much greater responsibility so while your workload may not be as heavy as a HEO, the greater responsibility and accountability makes up for it.

gics

Hi all,
I'm trying to put together unofficial regional listing from the info people have PM me so if anyone is interested PM me your placing on the interdepartmental and open ad which counties your listed for & I can compare with the info I have got so far & let you know. It's going to be a long two weeks for those of us looking for regional vacancies

duffer247

Anybody else get called for First Secretary interview?
Another interview just what I wanted!!

DeirdreDee

Well done, duffer! How many did they call?

salomon

duffer247 wrote: »

Anybody else get called for First Secretary interview?
Another interview just what I wanted!!

Wouldn't blame you. That's why I didn't bother with AP1.

what number were you on the panel? I.e how far into panel are they going for first sec?

duffer247

DeirdreDee wrote: »

Well done, duffer! How many did they call?

No idea, I'm #38 on open panel and I guess not everybody will have ticked the box for the DFA

I wonder will it be a replica on the first interview with more on the specialist knowledge bit?

duffer247

salomon wrote: »

Wouldn't blame you. That's why I didn't bother with AP1.

what number were you on the panel? I.e how far into panel are they going for first sec?

#38

Winterspring

Has anyone contacted pas about what happens next and how long before they send people into clearance?

Steveie2017

I rang on Friday and they were commencing the clearance process which they hoped to gave completed within 2 weeks and at that point, they would issue the details of the regional panels. More waiting!

DeirdreDee

"Regional breakdowns cannot be given at this time.

Once the panel has gone to clearance the clearance team will be able to clarify your position on the regions you have chosen.

Please note that this may take up to 2 weeks.
"

Received last Friday.

tea and coffee

@spitommedickie my understanding was that the last panel closed at the end of March , not May

gics

I thought the same although don't have the paperwork to hand at the min to check so I may be wrong

DeirdreDee

You might be interested to know that for example, based on figures circulated today - the Dept. of Social Protection has 272 APs. Yes, 272.

In 2016, 25 APs were appointed in the Department. 9 from Open, 9 from Interdepartmental, and 7 from Internal.

Just thought I'd share.

bobbysands81

DeirdreDee wrote: »

"Regional breakdowns cannot be given at this time.

Once the panel has gone to clearance the clearance team will be able to clarify your position on the regions you have chosen.

Please note that this may take up to 2 weeks.
"

Received last Friday.

That's leaving the possibility open of changing regions. Interesting...

dee75

bobbysands81 wrote: »

That's leaving the possibility open of changing regions. Interesting...

I was told definitively today that you could not change your chosen counties.

luckyboy

dee75 wrote: »

I was told definitively today that you could not change your chosen counties.

I wonder if, in applicable cases where Dublin is not one of the chosen two, PAS will interpret the chosen counties as "your chosen two counties PLUS Dublin"? If not, they may end up exhausting the panel a lot quicker than anticipated. Say, if somebody in the top ten has chosen Wexford and Waterford. If s/he is simply not considered for Dublin jobs, they will have to be passed over in the first round of offers, unless there is an immediate vacancy in either county ...

gics

In the recent HEO comp they placed those in batch one who had vacancies in their chosen regions & then they sent an email to those remaining asking if they would be interested in specific locations. I think there was Dublin, arklow and one other. I would assume they will do the same before moving on to batch 2

Arcade_Tryer

DeirdreDee wrote: »

You might be interested to know that for example, based on figures circulated today - the Dept. of Social Protection has 272 APs. Yes, 272.
.

272 does seem a superfluous number. Would there be similar numbers in other departments? Beginning to understand more clearly now why the average public sector salary is ahead of the private sector!

dee75

luckyboy wrote: »

I wonder if, in applicable cases where Dublin is not one of the chosen two, PAS will interpret the chosen counties as "your chosen two counties PLUS Dublin"? If not, they may end up exhausting the panel a lot quicker than anticipated. Say, if somebody in the top ten has chosen Wexford and Waterford. If s/he is simply not considered for Dublin jobs, they will have to be passed over in the first round of offers, unless there is an immediate vacancy in either county ...

I'd be open to that if it was offered!

NapoleonInRags

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

272 does seem a superfluous number. Would there be similar numbers in other departments? Beginning to understand more clearly now why the average public sector salary is ahead of the private sector!

The Department of Social Protection has 6,500 staff. That number of APs is not unreasonable at all.

luckyboy

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

272 does seem a superfluous number. Would there be similar numbers in other departments? Beginning to understand more clearly now why the average public sector salary is ahead of the private sector!

There are about 400 APs in Revenue out of a staff complement of about 5,700. There are also just over 200 AP-equivalents (split between actual APs, First Secs and Development Specialists) in DFA ...

Arcade_Tryer

NapoleonInRags wrote: »

The Department of Social Protection has 6,500 staff. That number of APs is not unreasonable at all.

Ah, fair enough. Amazing a country of Ireland's small size and vast wealth requires such a large number of staff for social welfare.

NapoleonInRags

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

Ah, fair enough. Amazing a country of Ireland's small size and vast wealth requires such a large number of staff for social welfare.

The number of people in receipt of social welfare payments in the state is c.950,000 per week (including provision for unemployment, illness, maternity, caring, widowhood, retirement and old age).....the department also provides career guidance services via the Intreo offices, community welfare services, national pensions policy, citizens information services, child benefit, free travel scheme etc. etc. etc.

kippy

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

Ah, fair enough. Amazing a country of Ireland's small size and vast wealth requires such a large number of staff for social welfare.

It's amazing that there are people who still have no clue or idea of what the Department of Social Protection actually do.
(Not specifically directed at you)

Arcade_Tryer

kippy wrote: »

It's amazing that there are people who still have no clue or idea of what the Department of Social Protection actually do.
(Not specifically directed at you)

Fair point. Just goes to show how easy it is to stereotype and generalise about the Public Sector. Some people make a living off of it and yet call Civil Servants lazy and overpaid.

salomon

kippy wrote: »

It's amazing that there are people who still have no clue or idea of what the Department of Social Protection actually do.
(Not specifically directed at you)

And I really hope I don't end up there to find out first hand

bobbysands81

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

272 does seem a superfluous number. Would there be similar numbers in other departments? Beginning to understand more clearly now why the average public sector salary is ahead of the private sector!

Really? There's over 7,000 people working in DSP. I thought there'd be far more than 272 APs.